757 réponses à ce sujet

[kofelover]

wolfsite wrote...

Wardka wrote...

Abirn wrote...
That is why you limit it's access ...

No, it is why you (or I, at least) do not install Origin at all. If I agree to Origin's EULA and give EA money for a product that contains Origin, then that shows I accept their actions, which I most certainly do not. That's treating the symptoms, not the cause, which is their belief that my data = their data. A sale is a sale, and I will not give them that. As much as I'd like to see the end of Shepard's adventures, that isn't remotely as important to me as protecting my right to privacy and security.

I've been running Origin on a process monitor for a while now to see what it does.  Frankly over the past while it has become less and less intrusive.

The past few days all Origin did was check

program files
program filesorigin
program filesoriginorigin.exe
program filesoriginEAcorp_app.exe

It doesn't even go into windows anymore (It did in a previous version) and this is pretty much on par with how Steam goes into your computer.

BUT, the EULA allows them to and you are agreeing to those terms.  What they do today is not indicative of what they CAN do at any future date -- without notification to the user.   Just read the EULA to understand.  You're giving them a blank check and assuming they will do the right thing, and that would be a very large assumption on anyones part or, at the very least, a huge leap of faith.

This is all quite disturbing for PC users and unnecessary.

[Massefeckt]

The problem with these all or nothing systems is they punish the legal user and allow pirates off scot free. Why do companies think it's a good idea to punish the people who actually buy their products?

[wolfsite]

kofelover wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

Wardka wrote...

Abirn wrote...
That is why you limit it's access ...

No, it is why you (or I, at least) do not install Origin at all. If I agree to Origin's EULA and give EA money for a product that contains Origin, then that shows I accept their actions, which I most certainly do not. That's treating the symptoms, not the cause, which is their belief that my data = their data. A sale is a sale, and I will not give them that. As much as I'd like to see the end of Shepard's adventures, that isn't remotely as important to me as protecting my right to privacy and security.

I've been running Origin on a process monitor for a while now to see what it does.  Frankly over the past while it has become less and less intrusive.

The past few days all Origin did was check

program files
program filesorigin
program filesoriginorigin.exe
program filesoriginEAcorp_app.exe

It doesn't even go into windows anymore (It did in a previous version) and this is pretty much on par with how Steam goes into your computer.

BUT, the EULA allows them to and you are agreeing to those terms.  What they do today is not indicative of what they CAN do at any future date -- without notification to the user.   Just read the EULA to understand.  You're giving them a blank check and assuming they will do the right thing, and that would be a very large assumption on anyones part or, at the very least, a huge leap of faith.

This is all quite disturbing for PC users and unnecessary.

Frankly all I see are people acting hysterical over something that may happen but most likely won't.  Even when this first appeared people were already getting legal ramblings on a federal level in Europe.  I doubt EA would risk that kind of backlash.

So far they have been cutting back what Origin does scan wise and they would not dare go back cause they know people are watching.

If you are worried about this you should make this a more general complaint about EULA's in general cause I'm sure there are far more sinister ones out there.

[eyesofastorm]

wolfsite wrote...

Frankly all I see are people acting hysterical over something that may happen but most likely won't.  Even when this first appeared people were already getting legal ramblings on a federal level in Europe.  I doubt EA would risk that kind of backlash.

So far they have been cutting back what Origin does scan wise and they would not dare go back cause they know people are watching.

If you are worried about this you should make this a more general complaint about EULA's in general cause I'm sure there are far more sinister ones out there.

1) Once your data/information is out there, it is out there for good never to be gotten back and never to be completely deleted.  This is like mad cow disease.  You eat the tainted beef today and the disease lies dormant for 30 years before it rears its ugly head and kills you in a bad way.

2) It's not necessarily EA that I don't trust (though I don't particularly trust them either).  How many high level hacks have we seen in the last year?  There is NO SUCH THING as safe data.  It is needless and foolish for a game publisher to collect my data, tie it together and to me, spread it around to third parties and then pretend like there are not or ever will be repercussions.  

3) Maybe there are more sinster EULA's out there, but that is hardly an excuse to accept this one.  It's certainly the most sinister one I've been faced with signing.  They want me to give up a right that is considered a basic right in every industrial country (the right to legal process).  They also want me to install software on my pc that gives them or any disgruntled employee or any hacker a nice, big, unlocked backdoor directly in and they want me to promise I won't sue them if something should go terribly wrong?

Conclusion: If you aren't hysterical over this, then you don't understand how much to are giving up, how much power you are giving a corporation that has exactly zero respect for you beyond the money they can squeeze from your wallet, nor how serious the risk is to your identity and personal information.   

[Bogsnot1]

Stanley Woo wrote...

Inappropriate discussion of software piracy and circumventing of game installation systems removed. Some off-topic discussion, company bashing, and political discussion removed. Bans handed out.

Let's please try and keep this discussion on topic, civil, and keeping within our Site Rules. Thank you.

If talk of circumventing "game installation systems" was such a bad thing, then there would have been multiple bans handed out based on the ME1 Tech forum. There, we have instructions on how to manually install the game due to ME1's securerom interfering with many model of DVD drive, preventing legitimate game owners from installing the products they have legally purchased.

So far, the lack of communication, closing of threads, and now active censoring of posts only serves to further the discontent that is being felt by your once loyal customers.

[JBo796]

What is origin?

[voteDC]

Massefeckt wrote...

The problem with these all or nothing systems is they punish the legal user and allow pirates off scot free. Why do companies think it's a good idea to punish the people who actually buy their products?

It's not so much about stopping piracy these days but actually about protecting their copyright.

So in order to maintain a copyright you have to actively protect it and thus DRM gets used, not because it is effective because as we've seen it isn't but because it shows they want to protect their property.

[Relix28]

JBo796 wrote...

What is origin?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin

[TheRealJayDee]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

So far, the lack of communication, closing of threads, and now active censoring of posts only serves to further the discontent that is being felt by your once loyal customers.

That's just how it is. This whole charade is incredibly frustrating and feels so unneccessary.

[OperativeX]

One man can help - John Riccitello. He has the power but has thus far failed to use it. By NOT putting BF3 on Steam, Battlefield lost the war against COD yet again. Had it been released on Steam and not Origin only, sales would have been much higher as Steam has the strongest PC gaming community worldwide.

Origin exclusivity is a bad business model. It alienates fans to the point where they boycott or spend their money elsewhere. To make ME3 Origin exclusive would be a ridiculous loss for EA.

Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Wake up John. Get over your ego

[Lunatic LK47]

OperativeX wrote...

One man can help - John Riccitello. He has the power but has thus far failed to use it. By NOT putting BF3 on Steam, Battlefield lost the war against COD yet again. Had it been released on Steam and not Origin only, sales would have been much higher as Steam has the strongest PC gaming community worldwide.

Origin exclusivity is a bad business model. It alienates fans to the point where they boycott or spend their money elsewhere. To make ME3 Origin exclusive would be a ridiculous loss for EA.

Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Wake up John. Get over your ego

This. Makes me wonder how the doctors are friends with the guy during their old BioWare days.

[billy the squid]

voteDC wrote...

Massefeckt wrote...

The problem with these all or nothing systems is they punish the legal user and allow pirates off scot free. Why do companies think it's a good idea to punish the people who actually buy their products?

It's not so much about stopping piracy these days but actually about protecting their copyright.

So in order to maintain a copyright you have to actively protect it and thus DRM gets used, not because it is effective because as we've seen it isn't but because it shows they want to protect their property.

Mmmm. Yes and no. Copyright does need to be actively protected for it to be considered active or it will be treated as lapsed and the IP is no longer protected. But, that applies more to other competitors in paticular who would try to imitate or attempt to pass of their own product under the IP of the IP holder.

DRM does show that the IP is indeed under protection, but then all previous games which don't use DRM are then in risk of suffering from a lapse of copyright protection? Of course they don't, but console only IPs and other IPs which are not even games still retain copyright protection. The holder must actively challenge any possible infringement and have evidence of doing so to prevent the lapse. see Bethesda's issue with the mine craft owner's new game called "scrolls" The move by Bethesda was patently silly as there was no way one would mistake Elder Scrolls for Scrolls when the content is in an entirely different league.

[billy the squid]

OperativeX wrote...

One man can help - John Riccitello. He has the power but has thus far failed to use it. By NOT putting BF3 on Steam, Battlefield lost the war against COD yet again. Had it been released on Steam and not Origin only, sales would have been much higher as Steam has the strongest PC gaming community worldwide.

Origin exclusivity is a bad business model. It alienates fans to the point where they boycott or spend their money elsewhere. To make ME3 Origin exclusive would be a ridiculous loss for EA.

Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Wake up John. Get over your ego

What? How would selling on Steam benefit EA?

EA has created a restricted market by limiting it to Origin, 100% of the revenue from Origin goes to them. The idea is that the IP has such traction that the consumers will follow it. The idea is sound, force a migration from competitors, whilst taking the calculated risk that people will shift from Steam to Origin for those exclusives, even if the consumer is not exclusive in their use of a download client.

Key problem that I see is Origin's implementation has been cack handed. From server problems, failures to recognise DLC in BF3 and EULAs, rubbish scanning protocols, which I believe have been addressed to a certain extent. 

Seriously, make sure the client works properly before it's released, it feels like initally Origin was rushed out before all the technical problems were ironed out to meet a deadline. Deja vu ?

Modifié par billy the squid, 11 janvier 2012 - 12:41 .

[Arcadian Legend]

NOTE: This is a copypaste of a post I made in a recently locked Origin thread.
 
Apparently though someone posted in an Origin thread (long since sunk) that he ran a checkup for things Origin was poking around for and it only really looks at the same things that Steam does. There is no real thing to worry about. I'll see if I can recover the post.

EDIT

Here you go. it also explains peoples worries about Origin in detail.

wolfsite wrote...

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

From what I've heard it scans your PC, your PC specs, programs, files, etc. and sends it to EA. EA's terms specify that they can basically do whatever they want with that information including selling it to other companies. Its basically spyware. That's what I've heard, I don't know too much about PCs but I do know what spyware is and the dangers of companies collecting and selling/sharing your information with others.

The problem with it is that certain EA games like Battlefield 3 and Crysis 2 require Origin, so if you ever wanted to buy those games you have to agree to EA's terms and install Origin. The other problem is that nobody knows if ME3 will require Origin and most people really don't want that so that is why everyone is mad.

Origin does not scan your PC.  I've run several process checkers while Origin was in operation and the only thing it did was check Origin related directories and a couple of .DLL files in windows.  In comparison I did the same thing with Steam and Steam did a nearly identical scan.

So Origin is no worse than Steam in this regard.  I have been running Origin for quite some time now and I have had no problems with it.

Essentially if you think Origin is spyware then Steam can be bundled in that catagory as well.

Modifié par Arcadian Legend, 11 janvier 2012 - 01:09 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Just because they haven't done anything yet doesn't mean they won't in the future... the problem is that users sign away permission for them to do it at any time.

[OperativeX]

billy the squid wrote...

OperativeX wrote...

One man can help - John Riccitello. He has the power but has thus far failed to use it. By NOT putting BF3 on Steam, Battlefield lost the war against COD yet again. Had it been released on Steam and not Origin only, sales would have been much higher as Steam has the strongest PC gaming community worldwide.

Origin exclusivity is a bad business model. It alienates fans to the point where they boycott or spend their money elsewhere. To make ME3 Origin exclusive would be a ridiculous loss for EA.

Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Wake up John. Get over your ego

What? How would selling on Steam benefit EA?

EA has created a restricted market by limiting it to Origin, 100% of the revenue from Origin goes to them. The idea is that the IP has such traction that the consumers will follow it. The idea is sound, force a migration from competitors, whilst taking the calculated risk that people will shift from Steam to Origin for those exclusives, even if the consumer is not exclusive in their use of a download client.

Key problem that I see is Origin's implementation has been cack handed. From server problems, failures to recognise DLC in BF3 and EULAs, rubbish scanning protocols, which I believe have been addressed to a certain extent. 

Seriously, make sure the client works properly before it's released, it feels like initally Origin was rushed out before all the technical problems were ironed out to meet a deadline. Deja vu ?

Have you not seen all the Origin hater threads? Origin exclusivity is a bad business model for EA because they alien a huge amount of fans. There are some people who will ONLY buy retail without mandatory Origin install, some people who will ONLY use Steam. Because EA are forcing this spyware on them, those people didn't buy BF3. Probably won't buy ME3.

It doesn't take a mathmatician to realise that that's a lot of missed revenue. If EA put their game on Steam, yeah Valve will take a small percentage for helping EA distribute it. But EA will take the lion's share. Either that or they don't put it on Steam at all and potentially miss out on 100's of 1000's of sales from people who will only use Steam as a Digital store.

The Origin concept is a greed machine. It does not cater to all potential customers.

Modifié par OperativeX, 11 janvier 2012 - 01:32 .

[Boomer-Australia]

More money for EA (not in the long run through), more calls to customer support, more pissed of fans and believe it or not less money

Modifié par Boomer-Australia, 11 janvier 2012 - 02:15 .

[billy the squid]

OperativeX wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

OperativeX wrote...

One man can help - John Riccitello. He has the power but has thus far failed to use it. By NOT putting BF3 on Steam, Battlefield lost the war against COD yet again. Had it been released on Steam and not Origin only, sales would have been much higher as Steam has the strongest PC gaming community worldwide.

Origin exclusivity is a bad business model. It alienates fans to the point where they boycott or spend their money elsewhere. To make ME3 Origin exclusive would be a ridiculous loss for EA.

Einstein once said: "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

Wake up John. Get over your ego

What? How would selling on Steam benefit EA?

EA has created a restricted market by limiting it to Origin, 100% of the revenue from Origin goes to them. The idea is that the IP has such traction that the consumers will follow it. The idea is sound, force a migration from competitors, whilst taking the calculated risk that people will shift from Steam to Origin for those exclusives, even if the consumer is not exclusive in their use of a download client.

Key problem that I see is Origin's implementation has been cack handed. From server problems, failures to recognise DLC in BF3 and EULAs, rubbish scanning protocols, which I believe have been addressed to a certain extent. 

Seriously, make sure the client works properly before it's released, it feels like initally Origin was rushed out before all the technical problems were ironed out to meet a deadline. Deja vu ?

Have you not seen all the Origin hater threads? Origin exclusivity is a bad business model for EA because they alien a huge amount of fans. There are some people who will ONLY buy retail without mandatory Origin install, some people who will ONLY use Steam. Because EA are forcing this spyware on them, those people didn't buy BF3. Probably won't buy ME3.

It doesn't take a mathmatician to realise that that's a lot of missed revenue. If EA put their game on Steam, yeah Valve will take a small percentage for helping EA distribute it. But EA will take the lion's share. Either that or they don't put it on Steam at all and potentially miss out on 100's of 1000's of sales from people who will only use Steam as a Digital store.

The Origin concept is a greed machine. It does not cater to all potential customers.

Hardly. Enforced exclusivity is the attempt to out manuver Steam and create the equivalent service by signing third parties to the client. It is unfortunate, but those who will use Origin, even grudgingly, far outnumber those who won't. Nor are the markets for BF3 one homogenous market, they are seperate although there is likely peripheral overlap, so losses from one IP are unlikely to impact on the other.

It is of note that EA has made several changes to the origin program and EULA, namely because they got caught, but it was forced to change none the less due to legal implications. In addition do you remember Steam's inital launch, the TOS were awful and the system was buggy. Steam to their credit improved dramatically. Why EA didn't learn from that is a "duh" moment. If anything the reason people avoid origin is the poor service and dodgy EULA even if it is improved. I don't think there is any sizable group which won't use another system to get what they want if it can provide a service as good or better than Steam's, paticularly if it is not present on one system, but is on the other.

Origin is EA's attempt to compete with other DD services, of course it's going to push to establish itself, just like every other DD service available from Steam to Direct to Drive etc.

Is anyone under the impression that digital download services are doing the service out of the goodness of their heart?

[chance52]

wolfsite wrote...

Frankly all I see are people acting hysterical over something that may happen but most likely won't.  Even when this first appeared people were already getting legal ramblings on a federal level in Europe.  I doubt EA would risk that kind of backlash.

So far they have been cutting back what Origin does scan wise and they would not dare go back cause they know people are watching.

If you are worried about this you should make this a more general complaint about EULA's in general cause I'm sure there are far more sinister ones out there.

It doesn't matter what they scan, it's that they scan.

Everyone who was using EA Download Manager before the Origin name switch raise your hand.  For those with their hand's still down let me make this very clear.  We were prevented from accessing our purchased games until we agreed to Origins new intrusive terms of service.  The program would open up with an update for a week or so that we could deny but after that short window we had exactly 2 options, agree or quit the program. So the games we bought months ago were suddenly being held by EA until we complied.

What on Earth is right about them selling me a product and then coming back months later with terms I don't like and  forcing me to either abandon my paid for products or comply?  And I am supposed to trust this same company not to do anything bad? Really? The one that just held my goods as collateral until I clicked agree?  No sir, I do not trust that same company with full access to anything and everything it finds on my computer that has nothing to do with me playing a video game.

EA if you'd actually like real feedback in order to provide better services here is my very real feedback.
===========================================================================

1.The Sims 3 is super boring after 3-5 minutes, but at the same time I can't stop playing once I start. Odd I know but I have zero idea why.

2.Mass Effect 2 was more interesting than Mass Effect 1 for me because of the combat mechanics.  But both games were very solid in story and the first game has the edge on story for me.

3.There has been a lot of talk with those involved with Dragon Age about bringing in new fans, wanting part of Call of Duty's audience and now taking notes from Skyrim. 

A)You will not find a bigger CoD fan than me and I have bought every game they have released. Also I loved Dragon Age:Origins, I played almost every class/race/sex combo there was to completion and that was no quick game to play.

Skyrim was fun but like all Bethesda games it is riddled with bugs that stop me from playing more than once or twice.  It's now uninstalled and I have no reason to think I'll put it back on my computer anytime soon.

C)Dragon Age 2 was the worst sequel I've ever played and the many interviews with your Dragon Age team where they blamed the fans for wanting Origins 2 or for not turning up the difficulty setting made me not only disappointed but angry.
---C1)DA2 as a game itself was actually fun, despite the flaws, but as a sequel a very big let down
---C2)Selling item packs at $5 were you have to go google the item pack name just to get a decent screenshot on a third party blog is not an incentive to buy
---C3)The Witcher 1 and 2 shows how I would like game graphics to progress as a series goes on.  DA2 was a step back from Origins in terms of graphics, and that is taking into account the different style that was used and I did not take points off for using a different style.
---C4)All this talk about other companies products being the target makes me think that these developers would be much happier working at your competition than for you.  So I say allow them, give them glowing recommendations and hope they get hired working on a project they love and get people who love the DA series that much to work on the next game and everyone will be much happier for it.
===========================================================================

That is my real feedback on your products and make note EA that not one of those real points I just made would you ever know by scanning my computer.

Modifié par chance52, 11 janvier 2012 - 02:35 .

[RiouHotaru]

I personally don't care about Origin. It's not an ideal situation, but I'm willing to bite the bullet. As for the scans? I never had any trouble with Steam asking if I'd let it scan, so I don't have problem with Origin doing the same thing.

[Bogsnot1]

wolfsite wrote...
Frankly all I see are people acting hysterical over something that may happen but most likely won't. 

So you dont lock the doors to your house I assume? I mean, it is possible that someone could wander in and steal everything that isnt nailed down, but it most likely wont. Locking your doors is a sign of you being hysterical and paranoid.

[CenturyCrow]

chance52 wrote...
Everyone who was using EA Download Manager before the Origin name switch raise your hand.  For those with their hand's still down let me make this very clear.  We were prevented from accessing our purchased games until we agreed to Origins new intrusive terms of service.  The program would open up with an update for a week or so that we could deny but after that short window we had exactly 2 options, agree or quit the program. So the games we bought months ago were suddenly being held by EA until we complied.

What on Earth is right about them selling me a product and then coming back months later with terms I don't like and  forcing me to either abandon my paid for products or comply?  And I am supposed to trust this same company not to do anything bad? Really? The one that just held my goods as collateral until I clicked agree?  snipped...

Great post.

Modifié par CenturyCrow, 11 janvier 2012 - 02:40 .

[Sethan_1]

wolfsite wrote...

Frankly all I see are people acting hysterical over something that may happen but most likely won't.

Sure, 'cause nobody ever has someone else swear at them in the forums mentioning their username in the post and suddenly loses access to all their EA games (multiplayer or not) because their account was banned by EA.

...and no company ever changes privacy options and whether they sell information to third parties after you have already agreed to the EULA and given them your info *cough*Facebook**cough*

No company ever gets sold or goes bankrupt and has all the customer information they've collected (that they swore to not give to third parties or use for nefarious purposes) sold as an asset to whoever has the cash.

No company ever gets their servers hacked and their software compromised (loads of fun when you already have this software allowed through your firewalls/antivirus and it gets an "update").

Even if we assume that EA's motives are pristine and their execution flawless (neither of which I am willing to grant without reservation), when you give someone else control over your information or access to your software, you are leaving yourself open to abuse of that privilege that will eventually occur.  The only questions are how long it will take and who will do the abusing.

Modifié par Sethan_1, 11 janvier 2012 - 02:41 .