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Mr Priestly, about Origin update...


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#476
hidden185

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outlaw1109 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...I think I'll live.

And that's your choice, but I'm not missing out on games I want to play because Origin might data mine some useless crap on my PC.
I have nothing to hide or get upset about if EA sees it...I might be ashamed if they ask about it, but that's something else...
(thinking about it, they already have my CC info b/c I bought ME1 and 2 from the EA store, and that's the only real information I care about...)

Hmm... you know I kind of see where outlaw109 is comming fromSpeaking of which they would I believe violate several federal laws include one really really old Alabama state law on aiding embezzlement.  So EA probably not going to do something ridiculous like sell CC numbers.
 

Honestly, I am more concerned that with how negative viewer responses have been and how honestly EA might make the same mistakes that threaten Playstations solvency as a company and costed facebook a millions dollars in class action lawsuit payments.However, I most mentioned that stuff in my previous post, so I do want to point out something new.  Have any of the members of this forum or Mass ever heard of a book called Compass of Pleasure by Dr. David Linden? If not you should check it out at local library or buy it sometime.  Because he gave some interesting reason  of why corporation take such risks such as limiting PC verson of Mass Effect 3 as an Orgin exclusive on its given platforms.  Its the same deep rooted psychological reason great leader's like Casey Huden's risk in who he chose new to bring on the Mass Effect 3 project and what he decided to change from the old game.Fortunitely, you don't have to buy his book because Dr. Linden recently repeated his conclusions about psychology of corporation in an New York Times article:www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/opinion/sunday/24addicts.html 

 Baltimore
WHEN we think of the qualities we seek in visionary leaders, we think of intelligence, creativity, wisdom and charisma, but also the drive to succeed, a hunger for innovation, a willingness to challenge established ideas and practices.
But in fact, the psychological profile of a compelling leader — think of tech pioneers like Jeff Bezos, Larry Ellison and Steven P. Jobs — is also that of the compulsive risk-taker, someone with a high degree of novelty-seeking behavior.  In short, what we seek in leaders is often the same kind of personality type that is found in addicts, whether they are dependent on gambling, alcohol, sex or drugs. 
How can this be?  We typically see addicts as weak-willed losers, and chief executives and entrepreneurs are people with discipline and fortitude.  To understand this apparent contradiction we need to look under the hood of the brain, and in particular at the functions that relate to pleasure and reward.
As a key motivator, pleasure is central to learning; if we did not find food, water and sex rewarding we would not survive and have children. Pleasure evokes neural signals that converge on a small group of interconnected brain areas called the medial forebrain pleasure circuit — tiny clumps of neurons in which the neurotransmitter dopamine plays a crucial role. 
This dopamine-using pleasure circuitry, refined over millenniums of evolution, can also be artificially activated by some, but not all, psychoactive substances that carry a risk for addiction, like cocaine, heroin, nicotine or alcohol. Our brain’s pleasure circuits are also hard-wired to be activated by unpredictable rewards:  While a roulette wheel is spinning or horses are on the track, we get a pleasure buzz even if we don’t get a payout in the end. Uncertainty itself can be rewarding — clearly a useful attribute for high-risk, high-reward business ventures.
So why do some people become addicted to drugs, alcohol, gambling or sex while others can indulge in a moderate, noncompulsive manner? One hypothesis is that addicts feel those pleasures unusually strongly and are motivated to seek them more intently. It’s reasonable, but wrong. Evidence from animal experiments and human brain scans indicates that the opposite is true:  Addicts want their pleasures more but like them less. 
We’re now starting to understand the biology behind the blunted pleasure of addicts.  From studies comparing identical and fraternal twins, it is estimated that genetic factors account for 40 to 60 percent of the variation in the risk for addiction. But we are only in the early stages of understanding the role of genes in addiction; there is no one “addiction gene,” but it is likely that a large number of genes are involved in this complex trait.
Crucially, genetic variants that suppress dopamine signaling in the pleasure circuit substantially increase pleasure- and novelty-seeking behaviors — their bearers must seek high levels of stimulation to reach the same level of pleasure that others can achieve with more moderate indulgence.  Those blunted dopamine receptor variants are associated with substantially increased risk of addiction to a range of substances and behaviors.
Is there a silver lining to the addictive personality?  Some of our most revered historical figures were addicts — not only the obvious creative types like Charles Baudelaire (hashish and opium) and Aldous Huxley (alcohol and the nonaddictive hallucinogens mescaline and LSD), but also scientists like Sigmund Freud (cocaine) and warriors and statesmen from Alexander the Great and Winston Churchill (both known to be heavy drinkers) to Otto von Bismarck, the unifier of Germany, who typically drank two bottles of wine with lunch and topped them off with a little morphine in the evening.
Leaders in America rarely admit to addictions in public, but one recent example is Henry T. Nicholas III, a founder of Broadcom, a multibillion-dollar company that makes microchips for cellphones, game consoles, wireless headsets and other electronic devices. Starting with a $10,000 investment, Mr. Nicholas and his partners created a company that now has 9,000 employees and 5,100 patents. Along the way, he struggled with alcohol, cocaine and Ecstasy; he entered a rehab program in 2008. (He also successfully fought off criminal charges related to backdating stock options and drug distribution.)
The risk-taking, novelty-seeking and obsessive personality traits often found in addicts can be harnessed to make them very effective in the workplace. For many leaders, it’s not the case that they succeed in spite of their addiction; rather, the same brain wiring and chemistry that make them addicts also confer on them behavioral traits that serve them well.
So, when searching for your organization’s next leader, look for someone with an attenuated dopamine function: someone who is never satisfied with the status quo, someone who wants the feeling of success more than others — but likes it less.

Now ignoring the shallow and stupid conclusions, like "Did Dr. Linden just say that CEO are drug addicts?" or that "Do drug addicts make the best CEO?", consider seriously what Dr. Linden is saying.  After all his point is not addiction under the traditionally sense of the word because their is no way under the traditional (Plus, he actually redefines the term addict if you were to read his book or know anything about the man)
In fact, if you don't get this, lets go to an extreme and consider what Linden said about politics:http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2011/07/15/the-brain-science-behind-gambling-with-the-debt-ceiling/ " The debt ceiling debate is raging in Washington. But what’s going on in the minds of the politicians working on the seemingly intractable problem? Barack Obama, Mitch McConnell, John Boehner and Eric Cantor are all taking calculated risks — bets — that they can win the standoff and get more out of the deal than the other side can. Their strategies are rooted in their politicals beliefs and theories on how government should operate, but their tactics come from the part of the brain that covets social acceptance and individual rewards.
... 
humans get caught up in the risky thrill of winning big, sometimes at the expense of correctly understanding what they have to lose. They also compare themselves with their competitors and derive satisfaction from outperforming them — something Linden says humans are simply hardwired to do."

Thus, my point is that the leaders at EA fundamentally do not realize what they have to loose in the risk introducing Mass Effect 3 as Orgin-only for PC without over-addressing some of the user complants of previous issues with Origin.(see *)  Its not becuase they are uncaring as they are deeply empathic, but fundamentally becuase they are innovator's and leadership.   As David Linden has shown with gift true leadership comes the curse an addiction to improve and never be as sastified as other with ones improvements.  (The latter is why we start thank you cards 

  Because they risk loosing them becuase Origin does not feel like a safe on the internet, they need to address that issue as the other issue of price and the issue quality of service can be worked on in how they introduce Mass Effect 3.  Safety on the other hand is something EA has to build like a house over time staring with fixing the foundation. Its a foundaiton that has a few cracks so get fixing. I feel like by reading this thread than any other thread on this topic, the CEOs at EA can at least get an idea of this risk and idea how best to address this safety issue.

Also don't blame EA for taking risks as when has blaming ever resolved anything? Instead, I personally think people who feel strongly about this issue should remind EA of their concerns in a calm collected manor.

(*)Heck I personally now thinking put Origin as Mass Effect 3 is an interesting and good idea since they can provide more direct custumer support.  Lets face Steam support simply tails into Bio forums anyways.  It how I found out about youg guys and wonderful people like Chris and Stanley.  However, the goodness of an idea like this was do not lessen the great risk they are taking.

Modifié par hidden185, 12 janvier 2012 - 04:17 .


#477
CenturyCrow

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Looking for a definitive answer to this pressing question, I contacted the Magic 8 Ball and asked the question:  “Will we require Origin software?”
The Magic 8 Ball answer is: “Maybe”
So even magic can't peer into the future on this one.

#478
Bombe

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I'm confused about the uproar about Origin. Can't you just install the game with origin as required, then shut Origin down and run the game directly from the game folder?

#479
hidden185

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Shepard Wins wrote...

cgrimm54 wrote...

Shepard Wins wrote...

I'm sorry if this has been already asked here, but can anyone tell me what does Origin do, concerning privacy?

I mean it as a sincere question and not a statement of "come on it isn't that bad" sorts. The only thing that I've managed to get to know is that it scans for pirated games/software. What else?

To my knowledge, it doesn't scan for pirated games.  It scans certain specific areas on your hard drive, like program files and documents for executable files.  This is presumably to find games it can add to its library, which I can attest to, as Origin added TS3 to itself when I installed it.  Other than that, it figures out your system's specs and sends data about that back to EA so they can get a better grasp on their client base.  (And steal your credit card and tax information to sell to hackers lawl)
This is the same thing steam does, except steam has an opt-out option in its settings.  Other than that, it doesn't do anything else to your files.  
Of course, I'm going to get torn a new one because the EULA says they can scan anything on your computer and send whatever they want back to themselves, but I prefer knowing what it actually does, not what it could do if EA suddenly didn't care about lawsuits.


Thanks for the quick answer!

So... Would it help if one installs Origin (f.e. in order to play ME3) on a freshly-installed operating system (so there is nothing to find there except maybe for the system specs)? Or simply runs Origin in a sandbox?



If I had seen this before or Staneley's message, I would have actually included it in my posts. :lol:
I didn't know the exact detail, but I had heard rumors that EA did do something to address the security issue (and thus protect them not just from custumers but from angrying people in the military) .  Now all you have to do is really fix clearly massive PR issue to make people fee like they can trust Origin or make the tough decision not 

Cherie Bombe wrote...

I'm confused about the uproar about Origin. Can't you just install the game with origin as required, then shut Origin down and run the game directly from the game folder?

Based on viewer responses, I really do think that you guys need to something to improve Origins public image beyond simply waiting for new users to write great reviews or comments about it.  Contact a social-rhetoric guru similar to Frank Luntz or former members of Citizens for a Free Kuwait.  Just don't do anything crazy like you did for "fake protesters and market games solely on shock value".  Making people interested in Origin or wonder about it is not going to really help your case since people are going to think along similar Shepard said to Blue Rose of Illium: "If [EA hasn't] said that then you have either trust him, so you have nothing to worry about, ... or you don't, and you already decided" about whether or not to buy Mass Effect (Yes I went there.)

P.S.  Cherie Bombe, I answered you question below.  Also, if its still visible I am really really sorry about the double post below this one.  There was a bug while I was editing this and resulted in two posts of the same thing >-<; Just ignore it for now.

Modifié par hidden185, 12 janvier 2012 - 05:02 .


#480
hidden185

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--bug in posting delete me if possible--

Modifié par hidden185, 12 janvier 2012 - 04:59 .


#481
Bogsnot1

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CenturyCrow wrote...

Looking for a definitive answer to this pressing question, I contacted the Magic 8 Ball and asked the question:  “Will we require Origin software?”
The Magic 8 Ball answer is: “Maybe”
So even magic can't peer into the future on this one.


I too, have made attempts to see in the future.
Tea Leaves: All I saw was something akin to a Rorschach test. It reminded me of a bunny. Considering bunnies just eat greens (money), hump (screw you), and crap on everything (EA), the outlook is grim. :?

Tarot: Full house, Kings over Wands. :wizard:

Astrology: You finally get your chance to be different and not run with the herd. Just keep in mind that differences may be the spice of life but some spices are easier to swallow than others. (lolwut?):huh:

Crystal Ball: Wasnt really paying attention, as the refracive angle of the crystal ball was giving me a great upskirt of the cute young hippy doing the reading. B)

Numerology: Bingo!:o

Due to the lack of certainty by the different methods, I am heading out to a farm to procure a goat. I'll get back to you on what its entrails have to say on the matter.

Modifié par Bogsnot1, 12 janvier 2012 - 05:24 .


#482
DiebytheSword

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I too tried to divine the future, this time from my bowl of ramen. After considering the spirals and curly nature of the noodles, I knew that our path would only bring us to places we've been before.

#483
ItsFreakinJesus

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Cherie Bombe wrote...

I'm confused about the uproar about Origin. Can't you just install the game with origin as required, then shut Origin down and run the game directly from the game folder?

Doubtful.  If you try that with Steam, Steam boots up before the game boots up.  Try that with Battlefield 3, Origin boots before the game boots as well.

Mass Effect 2 can be booted without Origin started for some reason, but it's likely that ME3 will operate like a Steam game and boot up Origin before starting itself.  At most, people could disable their internet while playing ME3, but then they won't be able to play online.  Though someone posted a FAQ a few days ago about using a program to pretty much lock Origin out from scanning your computer for anything without using what could be considered dubious means to circumvent the program itself and preserving your integrity so you can play the game 100% with no issues.

And with that method, Origin for ME3 shouldn't be a problem.  Unless Ea and Bioware do something stupid and make ME3 dependent on your web browser like Battlefield 3*, then I'll rage.



*Battlefield 3 will start your browser when you try to play, and you are unable to do anything, from single player to competitive multiplayer, without initiating it through your web browser instead of the game or Origin itself, which is highly idiotic.

#484
hangmans tree

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hidden185 wrote...

snip

holy crap
...
who are you sir?
I begin to suspect you are a hired social and marketing advisor. Or a corporate man.
Too intellectual and smart, considerate and balanced for BSN (your posts are) if you ask me.

:P

But overall a good read, food for thought, thank you.

#485
v0rt3x22

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I guess we'll have to wait - I doubt Bioware even knows the answers now - as they need to go through EA - and EA is probably pushing for it.

But in any case, I think this must be the longest surviving Origin thread to date - so thank you mods for being patient with this one. :)

#486
Jaron Oberyn

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They better require it now that I just swallowed and downloaded it for TOR. Too bad they rainout of CEs because I wanted to get that for the pc version.


-Polite

#487
True Zarken

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PoliteAssasin wrote...

They better require it now that I just swallowed and downloaded it for TOR. Too bad they rainout of CEs because I wanted to get that for the pc version.


-Polite


Did you get TOR through Origin? First; Why? =P Second; When I was installing TOR from a disc it said 'Would I like to install Origin' I said 'No :)' if Mass Effect 3 is like that I have no qualms, but if it is required all the time and for me to install it I am going to have some serious issues with EA.

Also still waiting patiently for some answers. ^_^

Modifié par True Zarken, 12 janvier 2012 - 12:52 .


#488
Lumikki

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I will miss, ALL games made only for Steam or Origin client. I will never buy those games at all. It's not just my lost, but also companies who made those games.

Now don't understand me wrong, there is nothing wrong to have digital distribution software. I'm not agaist them at all, I support to have them. I'm agaist them to be ONLY forced choice for players. Even more with Origin clients forced violation of privacy. To help collecting wanted gaming information to company should be volutary for players.

I hope EA starts to respect they customers wishes and allow players choose and not force them into unwanted choices. Company will benefit more for happy than angry customers.

Modifié par Lumikki, 12 janvier 2012 - 01:19 .


#489
Dovahzaan

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Lumikki wrote...

I will miss, ALL games made only for Steam or Origin client. I will never buy those games at all. It's not just my lost, but also companies who made those games.


I wish there were more people like you. 

#490
Killjoy Cutter

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Lumikki wrote...

I will miss, ALL games made only for Steam or Origin client. I will never buy those games at all. It's not just my lost, but also companies who made those games.

Now don't understand me wrong, there is nothing wrong to have digital distribution software. I'm not agaist them at all, I support to have them. I'm agaist them to be ONLY forced choice for players. Even more with Origin clients forced violation of privacy. To help collecting wanted gaming information to company should be volutary for players.

I hope EA starts to respect they customers wishes and allow players choose and not force them into unwanted choices. Company will benefit more for happy than angry customers.


I've skipped both Dawn of War II and Space Marine completely, because they require a Steam account and Steam installation.  Battlenet was one of the reasons I didn't get Starcraft II. 

I don't have anything against other people using digital distribution software, and I have used it when it was the only way to get older games, but then I've immediately uninstalled it when I was done.  But for a new game, that I've purchased a physical copy of, there's simply no need for digital distribution software to be installed. 

Requiring people to submit to Origin in order to play EA's games is only going to drive away people who would otherwise be paying customers.  The people who Origin is supposedly targetted at will still get the game, and avoid Origin entirely. 

#491
spirosz

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Wait, is it required? I thought SWTOR needed it as well, but no one uses Origin for that game.

#492
Mister Mida

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Dovahzaan wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

I will miss, ALL games made only for Steam or Origin client. I will never buy those games at all. It's not just my lost, but also companies who made those games.


I wish there were more people like you. 

*raises hand*

#493
Dean_the_Young

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I don't have anything against other people using digital distribution software, and I have used it when it was the only way to get older games, but then I've immediately uninstalled it when I was done.  But for a new game, that I've purchased a physical copy of, there's simply no need for digital distribution software to be installed. 

Sure there is.

The reason being you, and what you could possibly do with it.

#494
Killjoy Cutter

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kofelover wrote...

Sethan_1 wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

Frankly all I see are people acting hysterical over something that may happen but most likely won't.


Sure, 'cause nobody ever has someone else swear at them in the forums mentioning their username in the post and suddenly loses access to all their EA games (multiplayer or not) because their account was banned by EA.

...and no company ever changes privacy options and whether they sell information to third parties after you have already agreed to the EULA and given them your info *cough*Facebook**cough*

No company ever gets sold or goes bankrupt and has all the customer information they've collected (that they swore to not give to third parties or use for nefarious purposes) sold as an asset to whoever has the cash.

No company ever gets their servers hacked and their software compromised (loads of fun when you already have this software allowed through your firewalls/antivirus and it gets an "update").

Even if we assume that EA's motives are pristine and their execution flawless (neither of which I am willing to grant without reservation), when you give someone else control over your information or access to your software, you are leaving yourself open to abuse of that privilege that will eventually occur.  The only questions are how long it will take and who will do the abusing.


Well said!!

And for other posts that say Steam scans for the same information as Origin that is INcorrect.  But, more importantly, you MUST give your permission to allow Steam to scan.   It does NOT automatically happen when you start Steam.


In some tests, the Origin installer starts scanning before you even have the "choice" to agree. 

#495
Killjoy Cutter

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I don't have anything against other people using digital distribution software, and I have used it when it was the only way to get older games, but then I've immediately uninstalled it when I was done.  But for a new game, that I've purchased a physical copy of, there's simply no need for digital distribution software to be installed. 


Sure there is.

The reason being you, and what you could possibly do with it.


What? 

If you have the physical disk, what possible use could the DD software be to you?  Patches can easily be posted to a website in the traditional manner, and downloaded from there.  Etc. 

If I have a physical copy of a game, then DD software is like ****** on a fish.

#496
Dean_the_Young

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

If you have the physical disk, what possible use could the DD software be to you?  Patches can easily be posted to a website in the traditional manner, and downloaded from there.  Etc. 

If I have a physical copy of a game, then DD software is like ****** on a fish.

If you have a physical copy of the game, you can still rip it and do other violations of copyright with it.

A better analogy for you would be 'sanitation of pre-packaged foods.'

#497
Killjoy Cutter

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Arcadian Legend wrote...

NOTE: This is a copypaste of a post I made in a recently locked Origin thread.
 
Apparently though someone posted in an Origin thread (long since sunk) that he ran a checkup for things Origin was poking around for and it only really looks at the same things that Steam does. There is no real thing to worry about. I'll see if I can recover the post.

EDIT

Here you go. it also explains peoples worries about Origin in detail.

wolfsite wrote...

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

From what I've heard it scans your PC, your PC specs, programs, files, etc. and sends it to EA. EA's terms specify that they can basically do whatever they want with that information including selling it to other companies. Its basically spyware. That's what I've heard, I don't know too much about PCs but I do know what spyware is and the dangers of companies collecting and selling/sharing your information with others.

The problem with it is that certain EA games like Battlefield 3 and Crysis 2 require Origin, so if you ever wanted to buy those games you have to agree to EA's terms and install Origin. The other problem is that nobody knows if ME3 will require Origin and most people really don't want that so that is why everyone is mad.


Origin does not scan your PC.  I've run several process checkers while Origin was in operation and the only thing it did was check Origin related directories and a couple of .DLL files in windows.  In comparison I did the same thing with Steam and Steam did a nearly identical scan.

So Origin is no worse than Steam in this regard.  I have been running Origin for quite some time now and I have had no problems with it.

Essentially if you think Origin is spyware then Steam can be bundled in that catagory as well.


A) "It doesn't do anything Steam doesn't do" is not a defense.  Steam does too much, and any game that requires Steam to be installed at any point goes too far. 

B) Both past practices by other software and "online content" companies, and the Origin EULA itself, make it clear that EA could change Origin's behavior on your system at any time, without warning or further user consent. 

#498
Pixieking

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Killjoy Cutter wrote...

But for a new game, that I've purchased a physical copy of, there's simply no need for digital distribution software to be installed. 


Honestly? It's DRM. Would you rather have SecuRom ( http://en.wikipedia....g/wiki/Securom )? What about Tages ( http://en.wikipedia.....org/wiki/Tagès )?

The reason games require Origin and Steamworks is because they're forms of verification of ownership, to prevent piracy, and stem second-hand sales. That's why digital distribution software is installed.

#499
PnXMarcin1PL

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Do you guys really believe that Origin is the only spyware? Steam does it too (in a smaller rate ofc). Do you think you have any privacy nowadays ? I'm not a fan of theories etc, but that is the truth I know from a friend that works in counter intelligence. Hell he even showed one once recording when I talked dirty to and with my girlfriend. Then I believed him he was telling the truth. Cellphones, emails, every call, every text message is registered not only by your operator but also by country security. It is a world wide practice. The same goes for emails, the same for kinect and other things we think are useful. There is less and less privacy and some people really cant see it.

Modifié par PnXMarcin1PL, 12 janvier 2012 - 02:25 .


#500
Killjoy Cutter

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Dean_the_Young wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

If you have the physical disk, what possible use could the DD software be to you?  Patches can easily be posted to a website in the traditional manner, and downloaded from there.  Etc. 

If I have a physical copy of a game, then DD software is like ****** on a fish.


]If you have a physical copy of the game, you can still rip it and do other violations of copyright with it.

A better analogy for you would be 'sanitation of pre-packaged foods.'


IF I were going to "do bad things" with the game, I could do them in spite of Origin.  Origin will be defeated, all DRM is eventually defeated. 

I am not going to "do bad things" with the game, I want to buy the game from Bioware and play the game.  I want to be a paying customer.  Treating me like a criminal, assuming I'm guilty and forcing me to prove my innocence before I can buy and use their product, will only make me leave and do something else with my money. 

Making a physical copy of the game disc for my own use is not a violation of copyright.  It's called a backup, and it's firmly covered under fair use, no matter what RIAA, MPAA, or any software company might claim. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 12 janvier 2012 - 02:24 .