757 réponses à ce sujet

[wolfsite]

Emoking wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

But for a new game, that I've purchased a physical copy of, there's simply no need for digital distribution software to be installed. 

Honestly? It's DRM. Would you rather have SecuRom ( http://en.wikipedia....g/wiki/Securom )? What about Tages ( http://en.wikipedia.....org/wiki/Tagès )?

The reason games require Origin and Steamworks is because they're forms of verification of ownership, to prevent piracy, and stem second-hand sales. That's why digital distribution software is installed.

Plese don't bring those up.  Hell I had a game with Starforce on it and that copy protection crashed my hard drive.  Thanksfully I was able to get it to recover and once I got a program to remove Starforce I could get to my data properly again.   Still had to get a new hard drive shortly afterwards though.  Yes it was Starforce by the way, there was a huge protest at the time with people having similar issues when installing a program that contained Starforce on it.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Emoking wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

But for a new game, that I've purchased a physical copy of, there's simply no need for digital distribution software to be installed. 

Honestly? It's DRM. Would you rather have SecuRom ( http://en.wikipedia....g/wiki/Securom )? What about Tages ( http://en.wikipedia.....org/wiki/Tagès )?

The reason games require Origin and Steamworks is because they're forms of verification of ownership, to prevent piracy, and stem second-hand sales. That's why digital distribution software is installed.

Second-hand sales are perfectly legal, no matter what a software company tells you. 

As for that other thing you mention, that we're not allowed to discuss, the elephant in the corner of this discussion?  Origin and other DRM schemes do NOTHING to prevent it.  They only insult the actual paying customers. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

Do you guys really believe that Origin is the only spyware?

Steam does it too (in a smaller rate ofc).

No we don't.

Yes, we know it does. 

Try to keep up.

[Dean_the_Young]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...


IF I were going to "do bad things" with the game, I could do them in spite of Origin.  Origin will be defeated, all DRM is eventually defeated. 

All security measure are bypassible, eventually. Security is never about being uncrackable, but rather about making it harder for most people up to a point.

Origin is not a huge obstruction in your ability to carry on. It does serve their concerns.

I am not going to "do bad things" with the game, I want to buy the game from Bioware and play the game.  I want to be a paying customer.

You can still do that.

Treating me like a criminal, assuming I'm guilty and forcing me to prove my innocence before I can buy and use their product, will only make me leave and do something else with my money. 

They aren't treating you like a criminal or assuming you're guilty. They're taking precautions whether you are or not, which is a rather basic part of societiy and commerce. It's the same reason many companies don't accept checks, or supply chains require certifications for their products.

Making a physical copy of the game disc for my own use is not a violation of copyright.  It's called a backup, and it's firmly covered under fair use, no matter what RIAA, MPAA, or any software company might claim. 

Considering how easy that line of argument is to turn around, simply by removing a 'not' and replacing the companies with 'certain individuals'...

You could always take them to court: you'd get damages and money, and they'd have to stop. I'm sure you'd win on your conviction that you know the law better than them.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 12 janvier 2012 - 02:31 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Kinda funny that your post ends with the line "Dean's story corner". You definitely specialize in fantasy fiction.

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I am not going to "do bad things" with the game, I want to buy the game from Bioware and play the game.  I want to be a paying customer.

You can still do that.

No, I can't.  Not as long as the installation of spyware on my computer is a condition of using the product. 

Would you give Oster or LG a key to your residence as a condition of buying a microware? 

Not only is there a privacy and security concern, there's the simple fact that buying the game and installing Origin would be giving my approval and acceptance to EA's scheme, and I simply cannot in good conscience do that.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 12 janvier 2012 - 02:38 .

[wolfsite]

Still remember when people were complaining like this when Steam first came out........ ah haters gonna hate.

Digital Distribution is what everyone is pushing towards.  It is inevitable:

Steam
Origin
Onlive
GOG
Gamersgate
Amazon Digital
Battle.net
Rockstar Social
GFWL
IOS and MAC App Stores
XBox Live
Playstation Network
Rumours are Ubisoft are planning one.

Plus a lot of companies are goin into game Streaming.

It's happenning.

[Pixieking]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

But for a new game, that I've purchased a physical copy of, there's simply no need for digital distribution software to be installed. 

Honestly? It's DRM. Would you rather have SecuRom ( http://en.wikipedia....g/wiki/Securom )? What about Tages ( http://en.wikipedia.....org/wiki/Tagès )?

The reason games require Origin and Steamworks is because they're forms of verification of ownership, to prevent piracy, and stem second-hand sales. That's why digital distribution software is installed.

Second-hand sales are perfectly legal, no matter what a software company tells you. 

As for that other thing you mention, that we're not allowed to discuss, the elephant in the corner of this discussion?  Origin and other DRM schemes do NOTHING to prevent it.  They only insult the actual paying customers. 

Actually, Steamworks does an incredible job of preventing piracy. 0 Day piracy on things like Deus Ex:HR and Skyrim was non-existent, and the patches for Steamworks games are very rarely cracked.

And, yes,second-hand sales are legal. But the industry doesn't particularly earn off of them. Hence why you have DRM that limits them, as well as things like EA's own "Project 10 Dollar" ( http://www.eurogamer...ollar-explained )

Modifié par Emoking, 12 janvier 2012 - 02:38 .

[LTiberious]

[violation of Site Rules removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 12 janvier 2012 - 05:53 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

wolfsite wrote...

Still remember when people were complaining like this when Steam first came out........ ah haters gonna hate.

Digital Distribution is what everyone is pushing towards.  It is inevitable:

Steam
Origin
Onlive
GOG
Gamersgate
Amazon Digital
Battle.net
Rockstar Social
GFWL
IOS and MAC App Stores
XBox Live
Playstation Network
Rumours are Ubisoft are planning one.

Plus a lot of companies are goin into game Streaming.

It's happenning.

And in response, I am no longer buying software I cannot get on a physical copy. 

[Mister Mida]

Emoking wrote...

Actually, Steamworks does an incredible job of preventing piracy. 0 Day piracy on things like Deus Ex:HR and Skyrim was non-existent, and the patches for Steamworks games are very rarely cracked.

And, yes,second-hand sales are legal. But the industry doesn't particularly earn off of them. Hence why you have DRM that limits them, as well as things like EA's own "Project 10 Dollar" ( http://www.eurogamer...ollar-explained )

Wrong. Skyrim was cracked before official release.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 12 janvier 2012 - 02:41 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

LTiberious wrote...

Only thing id like to say on this issue: Buy Game - Download and Crack It - play it.

Remember, even if you actually purchase the game, and they get their money for their product, EA considers you "in violation" for doing what you just described. 

That fact, and some of the things we're not allowed to talk about on this thread, make it clear what EA is really after with Origin, regardless of whatever else they claim. 

They want an open door to your computer, and the ability to datamine whatever they can get away with over time. 

Anything that interferes with that is going to be called "that eyepatch thing we can't talk about" and "violation of the EULA" and so on. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 12 janvier 2012 - 02:46 .

[wolfsite]

Mister Mida wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

But for a new game, that I've purchased a physical copy of, there's simply no need for digital distribution software to be installed. 

Honestly? It's DRM. Would you rather have SecuRom ( http://en.wikipedia....g/wiki/Securom )? What about Tages ( http://en.wikipedia.....org/wiki/Tagès )?

The reason games require Origin and Steamworks is because they're forms of verification of ownership, to prevent piracy, and stem second-hand sales. That's why digital distribution software is installed.

Second-hand sales are perfectly legal, no matter what a software company tells you. 

As for that other thing you mention, that we're not allowed to discuss, the elephant in the corner of this discussion?  Origin and other DRM schemes do NOTHING to prevent it.  They only insult the actual paying customers. 

Actually, Steamworks does an incredible job of preventing piracy. 0 Day piracy on things like Deus Ex:HR and Skyrim was non-existent, and the patches for Steamworks games are very rarely cracked.

And, yes,second-hand sales are legal. But the industry doesn't particularly earn off of them. Hence why you have DRM that limits them, as well as things like EA's own "Project 10 Dollar" ( http://www.eurogamer...ollar-explained )

Wrong, Skyrim was cracked before official release.

Plus Sonic Generations on PC uses Steamworks and that was cracked as well, also showed that the DLC promised is in the game already even though they still haven't released it officially.

[Pixieking]

Mister Mida wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Actually, Steamworks does an incredible job of preventing piracy. 0 Day piracy on things like Deus Ex:HR and Skyrim was non-existent, and the patches for Steamworks games are very rarely cracked.

And, yes,second-hand sales are legal. But the industry doesn't particularly earn off of them. Hence why you have DRM that limits them, as well as things like EA's own "Project 10 Dollar" ( http://www.eurogamer...ollar-explained )

Wrong. Skyrim was cracked before official release.

Heh.

Yes, you're right. On consoles. Believe me when I say that the PC cracked version of Skyrim was out on day of release, and not before.

[Dean_the_Young]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

No, I can't.  Not as long as the installation of spyware on my computer is a condition of using the product. 

Yes, you can. You won't, but that's very much different from can't. Don't confuse where the decision lies.

Would you give Oster or LG a key to your residence as a condition of buying a microware? 

Depends on the microwave, and how easy it is to change the locks afterwards.

Of course, this is moot because this isn't equivalent to what Origin is doing.

Not only is there a privacy and security concern, there's the simple fact that buying the game and installing Origin would be giving my approval and acceptance to EA's scheme, and I simply cannot in good conscience do that.

So don't. But recognize that you chose it, they didn't force you.

They are making a conditional offer for providing service. If you do not like the offer, you are under no obligation to accept it.

[wolfsite]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

LTiberious wrote...

Only thing id like to say on this issue: Buy Game - Download and Crack It - play it.

Remember, even if you actually purchase the game, and they get their money for their product, EA considers you "in violation" for doing what you just described. 

Oh Killjoy, you need to remove your links in your signature.  They are horrendously out of date in terms of what Origin actually does.   It doesn't help your cause if you keep pushing out dated or down right false information.

[Mister Mida]

Emoking wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Actually, Steamworks does an incredible job of preventing piracy. 0 Day piracy on things like Deus Ex:HR and Skyrim was non-existent, and the patches for Steamworks games are very rarely cracked.

And, yes,second-hand sales are legal. But the industry doesn't particularly earn off of them. Hence why you have DRM that limits them, as well as things like EA's own "Project 10 Dollar" ( http://www.eurogamer...ollar-explained )

Wrong. Skyrim was cracked before official release.

Heh.

Yes, you're right. On consoles. Believe me when I say that the PC cracked version of Skyrim was out on day of release, and not before.

Being cracked on day 1 or before is not a good quality of DRM, no matter how many whistles and blowers you put on it.

[Pixieking]

wolfsite wrote...


Plus Sonic Generations on PC uses Steamworks and that was cracked as well, also showed that the DLC promised is in the game already even though they still haven't released it officially.

Sonic was cracked day after release.

I didn't say Steamworks prevented all piracy, I said that it prevented 0 Day piracy (that is, piracy before the game is even released).

[Pixieking]

Mister Mida wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Actually, Steamworks does an incredible job of preventing piracy. 0 Day piracy on things like Deus Ex:HR and Skyrim was non-existent, and the patches for Steamworks games are very rarely cracked.

And, yes,second-hand sales are legal. But the industry doesn't particularly earn off of them. Hence why you have DRM that limits them, as well as things like EA's own "Project 10 Dollar" ( http://www.eurogamer...ollar-explained )

Wrong. Skyrim was cracked before official release.

Heh.

Yes, you're right. On consoles. Believe me when I say that the PC cracked version of Skyrim was out on day of release, and not before.

Being cracked on day 1 or before is not a good quality of DRM, no matter how many whistles and blowers you put on it.

Actually, it's what the industry has been trying for for a long time. 0 Day piracy is generally seen as the worst kind of piracy. But, yes, point taken. Perhaps you'd like Starforce DRM instead? That still hasn't been cracked.

[Killjoy Cutter]

wolfsite wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

LTiberious wrote...

Only thing id like to say on this issue: Buy Game - Download and Crack It - play it.

Remember, even if you actually purchase the game, and they get their money for their product, EA considers you "in violation" for doing what you just described. 

Oh Killjoy, you need to remove your links in your signature.  They are horrendously out of date in terms of what Origin actually does.   It doesn't help your cause if you keep pushing out dated or down right false information.

That information shows EA's original intent, and what they will eventually try to get away with again once the noise has died down. 

[Pixieking]

Also, I would hate for this thread to be locked. Shall we leave it as Steam and Origin also double as DRM, and that's that?

[Dean_the_Young]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

LTiberious wrote...

Only thing id like to say on this issue: Buy Game - Download and Crack It - play it.

Remember, even if you actually purchase the game, and they get their money for their product, EA considers you "in violation" for doing what you just described. 

Oh Killjoy, you need to remove your links in your signature.  They are horrendously out of date in terms of what Origin actually does.   It doesn't help your cause if you keep pushing out dated or down right false information.

That information shows EA's original intent, and what they will eventually try to get away with again once the noise has died down. 

And next conspiracy is...

[Mister Mida]

Emoking wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Being cracked on day 1 or before is not a good quality of DRM, no matter how many whistles and blowers you put on it.

Actually, it's what the industry has been trying for for a long time. 0 Day piracy is generally seen as the worst kind of piracy. But, yes, point taken. Perhaps you'd like Starforce DRM instead? That still hasn't been cracked.

Making me choose between a pile of crap and a bigger pile of crap won't work with me, sister.

[Pixieking]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

LTiberious wrote...

Only thing id like to say on this issue: Buy Game - Download and Crack It - play it.

Remember, even if you actually purchase the game, and they get their money for their product, EA considers you "in violation" for doing what you just described. 

Oh Killjoy, you need to remove your links in your signature.  They are horrendously out of date in terms of what Origin actually does.   It doesn't help your cause if you keep pushing out dated or down right false information.

That information shows EA's original intent, and what they will eventually try to get away with again once the noise has died down. 

I honestly don't think so. I'm no fan of EA, but they know that if something like that happens again, even if the noise has died down, they'll lose even more sales.

[Mister Mida]

Emoking wrote...

Also, I would hate for this thread to be locked. Shall we leave it as Steam and Origin also double as DRM, and that's that?

Was that ever a question then?

[Pixieking]

Mister Mida wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Being cracked on day 1 or before is not a good quality of DRM, no matter how many whistles and blowers you put on it.

Actually, it's what the industry has been trying for for a long time. 0 Day piracy is generally seen as the worst kind of piracy. But, yes, point taken. Perhaps you'd like Starforce DRM instead? That still hasn't been cracked.

Making me choose between a pile of crap and a bigger pile of crap won't work with me, sister.

I ain't your sister... Brother.

Fair fair if people don't want Steam or Origin, I was merely pointing out that they both have uses above and beyond being storefronts.