703 réponses à ce sujet

[Kaiser Shepard]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
You say that like it's a bad thing.

It is.

Then again, I wouldn't expect a bunch of fascists like Cerberus to understand that. They have a rep of hilarious incompetence to keep up.

So the minority you would gladly see deported are the fascists now? Are you sure you're not simply throwing around yet another word of which you don't actually know what it really means, like you so often do with "troll" and whatnot?

[mineralica]

Aramintai wrote...

Really? I was getting an impression from what the devs said earlier that VS will be a permanent squadmate in ME3. Which will be untrue if heshe will get knocked out for good early in the game. Not to mention the fan rage that will follow. From the leaked script I know that they can return after one particular facepalm worthy event on the Citadel. The question is when exactly? If it will be much later in the game I'm gonna add my voice of rage to the rest of the VS fans. VS seems to get so little love from BioWare, unlike some characters who are never wrong, can never get hurt or killed. Yes, you know who I'm talking about. 

I don't care about "what happened with other characters and didn't happen with VS". I just think that waiting for their return since ME1 (what, 5 years?) and finally having a possibility to get as full time squadmate Edit: without "nearly dead and spend X missions healing" would be fair.

Huh, Soldier's Poem by Muse found excellent time to pop up randomly in playlist.

Modifié par mineralica, 09 janvier 2012 - 08:42 .

[Someone With Mass]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
So the minority you would gladly see deported are the fascists now? Are you sure you're not simply throwing around yet another word of which you don't actually know what it really means, like you so often do with "troll" and whatnot?

Well, at least I don't resort to TVTropes' broken definition of a Deus Ex Machina, like yourself.

By the way. When you and your lot stops bringing stuff up that got old (read: Renegade's consequences and Cerberus and Shepard together) two years ago, I might care enough to go a little higher.

[1136342t54_]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
You say that like it's a bad thing.

It is.

Then again, I wouldn't expect a bunch of fascists like Cerberus to understand that. They have a rep of hilarious incompetence to keep up.

Fascists isn't the term I would call many Cerberus personnel. Maybe patriots or nationalists who happen to be incompetent 50% of the time?

[ODST 5723]

IanPolaris wrote...

lightsnow13 wrote...

argonian persona wrote...

Mars sounds cool. But there is NO WAY WHATSOEVER a Thresher could take out a Reaper. Zip. Zero. Nadda.

There is something romantic about the idea of a threser beating a reaper though.. that'd be amazing.

Yeah but it stretches my WSD (willing suspension of disbelief) past the breaking point.  If SHEPARD could take down a Thresher Maw on foot (admittedly with difficultly and likely with heavy weapons), there is no way that a contest between a REAPER and a Thresher Maw should be anything other than a mismatch in favor of the Reaper.

-Polaris

Doesn't that depend more on the context than your WSD regarding a paraphrase/summary?

What kind of Reaper was that?  Was it one of the stronger versions, or weaker?  Is there anything special about that particular Thresher Maw?  Was there anything about he environment that could have worked in the Maw's favor?

When it comes to WSD, it's more about whether something's possible.  If it's possible, it can happen even though it's not probable.  That means that it's less a threat to WSD for the biggest and baddest of all Maws to take down a mid-level Reaper than for a regular Maw to take down 8 high-level Reapers.

I still think the Reaper will win.  However, if the force supporting Shepard plays a role then I could see the largest Maw in the galaxy giving it some trouble and possibly crippling it.  That acide spit didn't seem to have any issue bypassing kinetic barriers in ME1.

[Someone With Mass]

1136342t54 wrote...

Fascists isn't the term I would call many Cerberus personnel. Maybe patriots or nationalists who happen to be incompetent 50% of the time?

I wouldn't call people who kills their own race in large quantities without feeling any kind of remorse "patriots"

I'd call them delusional sheep who believes everything one single man says, even though he can't prove it in a practical way whatsoever.

[CroGamer002]

Someone With Mass wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Fascists isn't the term I would call many Cerberus personnel. Maybe patriots or nationalists who happen to be incompetent 50% of the time?

I wouldn't call people who kills their own race in large quantities without feeling any kind of remorse "patriots"

I'd call them delusional sheep who believes everything one single man says, even though he can't prove it in a practical way whatsoever.

Or ultranationalists.

[Kaiser Shepard]

KBomb wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Do I care about the outcomes of my choices? Nope. Not at all.

I'm playing Mass Effect primarily for the characters.

.........

SMW is one of those "people" who's in it to be together with his virtual space waifu.

Don't ask, I don't really understand it myself either.

[1136342t54_]

Someone With Mass wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Fascists isn't the term I would call many Cerberus personnel. Maybe patriots or nationalists who happen to be incompetent 50% of the time?

I wouldn't call people who kills their own race in large quantities without feeling any kind of remorse "patriots"

I'd call them delusional sheep who believes everything one single man says, even though he can't prove it in a practical way whatsoever.

Note that I don't see the term 'Patriots' in good light. Although patriots wouldn't necessarily be accurate since they aren't part of any government. Still calling them Fascists isn't really accurate. Doesn't mean they are good but Fascists just doesn't make sense. Its like calling the Joker (note not saying they are like that villain) a ****. He is evil but that doesn't even make any sense.

[Aimi]

Most people misunderstand Fascism in a historical-ideological sense: it doesn't mean "generic far-right pejorative slur" and it certainly doesn't have a whole lot to do with German National Socialism (which was not a particularly Fascistic movement).

I think that Cerberus as portrayed in ME3 is Fascistic in an interesting way: the denial of the concept of individuality. To historical Fascists, there was no individual: only the Nation. Indoctrinating soldiers in the Reaper sense fits with that fairly well, right? Of course, the Illusive Man has been more or less silent on the topic of Third Way economic policies, corporatism, and the like, so the label of Fascist would still be inappropriate.

Modifié par daqs, 09 janvier 2012 - 08:55 .

[1136342t54_]

Mesina2 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...

Fascists isn't the term I would call many Cerberus personnel. Maybe patriots or nationalists who happen to be incompetent 50% of the time?

I wouldn't call people who kills their own race in large quantities without feeling any kind of remorse "patriots"

I'd call them delusional sheep who believes everything one single man says, even though he can't prove it in a practical way whatsoever.

Or ultranationalists.

I would say that but then again Cerberus was never really loyal to the Alliance but just humanity as a whole.

[chris2365]

Ok. I didn't read any spoilers ( save one). Can somebody tell me what was written, and if it was good? ( in your opinion)

Modifié par chris2365, 09 janvier 2012 - 09:09 .

[Someone With Mass]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...
SMW is one of those "people" who's in it to be together with his virtual space waifu.

Don't ask, I don't really understand it myself either.

And you're just ranting on a forum about a game you don't even like or show no interest in. 

Which is a little pathetic.

[MisterJB]

Someone With Mass wrote...
I'd call them delusional sheep who believes everything one single man says, even though he can't prove it in a practical way whatsoever.

You don't need to believe anything Jack Harper says to realize that a Black Ops group willing to do whatever it takes to protect humanity and it's interests is needed. You only need to look at how humans have been treated ever since First Contact.

[Travie]

Yeah, leaked script was exactly the same.

I'm sure noone is surprised.

[1136342t54_]

MisterJB wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
I'd call them delusional sheep who believes everything one single man says, even though he can't prove it in a practical way whatsoever.

You only need to look at how humans have been treated ever since First Contact.

Allowed to colonize the Skyllian Verge and screw over a Citadel race without Council intervention.

Been given and Embassy faster than any other species.

Allowed to get away with AI research with little punishment.

Also was allowed to have to Spectre candidates before you were a council race.

Became a Council species faster than any other race.

Yep Cerberus is needed .

I understand what your saying and to a degree I do agree that Cerberus is needed. The thing is I would make them an Alliance organization instead of run privately.

[Dean_the_Young]

daqs wrote...

Most people misunderstand Fascism in a historical-ideological sense: it doesn't mean "generic far-right pejorative slur" and it certainly doesn't have a whole lot to do with German National Socialism (which was not a particularly Fascistic movement).

I think that Cerberus as portrayed in ME3 is Fascistic in an interesting way: the denial of the concept of individuality. To historical Fascists, there was no individual: only the Nation. Indoctrinating soldiers in the Reaper sense fits with that fairly well, right? Of course, the Illusive Man has been more or less silent on the topic of Third Way economic policies, corporatism, and the like, so the label of Fascist would still be inappropriate.

One thing I'll be keeping an eye out for is the nature of the indoctrination. Has Cerberus indoctrinated these people with the Reaper worship (the Reapers are our saviors, etc.), or are these soldiers indoctrinated to Cerberus/the Illusive Man in particular?

A Reaper ideology, or a Human-Cerberus ideology? 

The former would be boring: just more Reaper indoctrination. The later would be fascinating, because it would imply that indoctrination could be used to further distinct, separate mentalities: what might happen if two different Indoctrinations come into contradiction? Mental destruction from the contradictions? Double think?

It also offers the frighting prospect of a Cerberus-order: Humans are unified into that xeno-state, but aliens could also be indoctrinated to accept it. Genocide of other races would be pointless if/when everyone shares the same viewpoint.

One of the few things I feel might salvage the Cerberus-is-indoctrinated plotline is if Cerberus indoctrination is distinct from Reaper indoctrination.

[nelly21]

MisterJB wrote...

You don't need to believe anything Jack Harper says to realize that a Black Ops group willing to do whatever it takes to protect humanity and it's interests is needed. You only need to look at how humans have been treated ever since First Contact.

Exactly. What's compelling about Cerberus is that it's a pretty good idea. But the organization is headed by an amoral and megalomaniacal leader (Who I happen to love. GREAT villian). This is why I scoff at the people that claim Bioware are bad writers.

[Aimi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

One thing I'll be keeping an eye out for is the nature of the indoctrination. Has Cerberus indoctrinated these people with the Reaper worship (the Reapers are our saviors, etc.), or are these soldiers indoctrinated to Cerberus/the Illusive Man in particular?

A Reaper ideology, or a Human-Cerberus ideology? 

The former would be boring: just more Reaper indoctrination. The later would be fascinating, because it would imply that indoctrination could be used to further distinct, separate mentalities: what might happen if two different Indoctrinations come into contradiction? Mental destruction from the contradictions? Double think?

It also offers the frighting prospect of a Cerberus-order: Humans are unified into that xeno-state, but aliens could also be indoctrinated to accept it. Genocide of other races would be pointless if/when everyone shares the same viewpoint.

One of the few things I feel might salvage the Cerberus-is-indoctrinated plotline is if Cerberus indoctrination is distinct from Reaper indoctrination.

Good point. If indoctrination works for Cerberus the way it works for the Reapers, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense - but if you can change the subject of the indoctrination, the storyline doesn't seem nearly as weird.

All we really have to go on here is Shiala's experience. She was first indoctrinated first by the Reapers, but then she inhaled the Thorian's spores and became one of its thralls. Maybe indoctrinations can override one another under certain circumstances?

Wouldn't it be just perfect if it had been Cerberus who orchestrated the invasive medical procedures that Baria was doing on the Zhu's Hope colonists, to improve understanding of alternative indoctrination techniques?

[1136342t54_]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

daqs wrote...

Most people misunderstand Fascism in a historical-ideological sense: it doesn't mean "generic far-right pejorative slur" and it certainly doesn't have a whole lot to do with German National Socialism (which was not a particularly Fascistic movement).

I think that Cerberus as portrayed in ME3 is Fascistic in an interesting way: the denial of the concept of individuality. To historical Fascists, there was no individual: only the Nation. Indoctrinating soldiers in the Reaper sense fits with that fairly well, right? Of course, the Illusive Man has been more or less silent on the topic of Third Way economic policies, corporatism, and the like, so the label of Fascist would still be inappropriate.

One thing I'll be keeping an eye out for is the nature of the indoctrination. Has Cerberus indoctrinated these people with the Reaper worship (the Reapers are our saviors, etc.), or are these soldiers indoctrinated to Cerberus/the Illusive Man in particular?

A Reaper ideology, or a Human-Cerberus ideology? 

The former would be boring: just more Reaper indoctrination. The later would be fascinating, because it would imply that indoctrination could be used to further distinct, separate mentalities: what might happen if two different Indoctrinations come into contradiction? Mental destruction from the contradictions? Double think?

It also offers the frighting prospect of a Cerberus-order: Humans are unified into that xeno-state, but aliens could also be indoctrinated to accept it. Genocide of other races would be pointless if/when everyone shares the same viewpoint.

One of the few things I feel might salvage the Cerberus-is-indoctrinated plotline is if Cerberus indoctrination is distinct from Reaper indoctrination.

Actually ME1 has something similar to that. Saren was being indoctrinated by Sovereign but he was using that indoctrination to make others follow him and see him as this charismatic figure that could shape the universe. The indoctrination wasn't exactly about them following a Reaper but following Saren. None of his followers actually knew what the Reaper was but they followed Saren as if he was their god.

While I'm sure Sovereign likely tampered with his tech to make that way it shows that indoctrination doesn't necessarily mean following Reapers.

[Someone With Mass]

MisterJB wrote...
You don't need to believe anything Jack Harper says to realize that a Black Ops group willing to do whatever it takes to protect humanity and it's interests is needed. You only need to look at how humans have been treated ever since First Contact.

Oh yeah, they have really been so mistreated, having Spectres, one of the largest fleets, a seat on the Council, being able to colonize wherever they want, getting away with illegal research relatively easy and controlling a large portion of C-Sec. All of this in less than half a century.

I should really feel sorry for them. Boo-hoo. 

[MisterJB]

1136342t54 wrote...

Allowed to colonize the Skyllian Verge and screw over a Citadel race without Council intervention.

The batarians had been hostile to other Council races for decades before humans appeared and, for some reason, the turiand were unwilling or unable to deal with them.
Thus, the Council used humans as attack dogs to drive the batarians out.

Been given and Embassy faster than any other species.
Also was allowed to have to Spectre candidates before you were a council race.
Became a Council species faster than any other race.

Humans were not given anything. All you mention, we bought it with human sweat, blood and tears.

Allowed to get away with AI research with little punishment.

You need to re-read "Revelation". The Council wanted to punish humans in the most harsh way possible, complete alien oversight.
The only reason we were able to maintain our sovereignty was because we threatened with war. The Council backed off because a war with humans would be against their interests.

Also, I couldn't help but notice that you failed to mention the First Contact War, where the turians attempted to enslave humanity.
Or perhaps we should talk about how none of the other species were willing to offer help when humans were attacked by the geth or kidnapped by the Collectors

I understand what your saying and to a degree I do agree that Cerberus is needed. The thing is I would make them an Alliance organization instead of run privately.

You need only to look at my avatar to realize what I believe will happen to humanity should we allow the Alliance to continue representing us

Modifié par MisterJB, 09 janvier 2012 - 09:33 .

[IanPolaris]

1136342t54 wrote...

MisterJB wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
I'd call them delusional sheep who believes everything one single man says, even though he can't prove it in a practical way whatsoever.

You only need to look at how humans have been treated ever since First Contact.

Allowed to colonize the Skyllian Verge and screw over a Citadel race without Council intervention.

Um, listening to Balak much?  The fact is BOTH humans and Baatarians were allowed to colonize the Skyllian Verge along with any other Citedal Race.  It was an open colonization area.  The Bataarians complained because they couldn't compete on an open playing field, and the council (rightly) told the Bataarians to suck it up.  It was the Bataarians who started hostilities (by proxy but they did), not the Alliance.

Been given and Embassy faster than any other species.

Except the Turians who were given full council membership almost immediately.  The reason is the same in both cases.  Both the Turians (then) and Humanity (now) gives the council much needed military and industrial muscle and those that have the most toys get to make the rules.  The council understands this which is why (even before Shepard) it was considered only a matter of time (century or two at the most) before Humanity was going to get a seat on the council.  Too dangerous not to.

Allowed to get away with AI research with little punishment.

So are most of the other powerful races.  We simply hear about the Human experiments more.  Also the other races aren't willing to push bounderies nearly as much as humanity (which is one reason other races fear humanity).

Also was allowed to have to Spectre candidates before you were a council race.

That's true for pretty much every citidel race with associate membership.  Most spectres come from council races, but non-council races have had spectres and spectre candidates almost from the begining (Blasto anyone?).  In fact the fact that Humanity didn't have even one spectre was starting to draw invidious (and dangerous) commentary even from non-humans given the power and influence the Alliance had even as an associate member race.  When Udina/Renegade Shep says that a human spectre was long overdue, they are doing nothing more than telling it like it is.

Became a Council species faster than any other race.

Except the Turians.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Actually the Turians didn't attempt to enslave humanity. They attempted to destroy humanity completely. Given that, a human chip on their shoulder when it comes to the Turians is understable. Even the other council races were aghast at the Turians when they learned of Shanxi.

-Polaris

[The Elder King]

MisterJB wrote...


The batarians had been hostile to other Council races for decades before humans appeared and, for some reason, the turiand were unwilling or unable to deal with them.
Thus, the Council used humans as attack dogs to drive the batarians out.



You need only to look at my avatar to realize what I believe will happen to humanity should we allow the Alliance to continues representing us

Are you sure that the batarians were hostile? I don't remember, thoug the Hegemony isn't exactly a good government.
About the Alliance, you should consider that most of what humanity accomplished is their merit. The Alliance kicked the Turians out of Shanxi. The Alliance has a strong fleet. It was an Alliance soldier that becomes the first Spectre and saved the Citadel and lead to a Council seat for humanity, it's the Alliance fleet that beated the Geth and the Sovereign, and in certain cases saved the Council.
Granted, I didn't like at all how they acted after Shepard's dead, but I think that the Alliance is still needed. Humanity need a strong organization with a large fleet and a strong army. Even if Cerberus (prior ME3) was needed (to do what the Alliance couldn't), they couldn't fill the black hole that the absence of the Alliance will leave.