703 réponses à ce sujet

[1136342t54_]

IanPolaris wrote...

Please post a quote showing that the Turians were ever an associate member (when the lore strongly implies otherwise). Any will do.

-Polaris

So you can't support your claims then? Good to know.

[Fdingo]

Ha. So the spoilers/leak about Mars and Eva were true.

[didymos1120]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

So um, did Liara forget her helmet at the digsite and had to settle for a breather mask?

Don't start, damn it.  You already know the answer.

[1136342t54_]

MisterJB wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
If all the other races would have wanted the humans dead, they would have known and felt it.

The turians tried. But then the asari decided that we could be used as attack dogs.

Prove that the Turians wanted humanity exterminated.

[IanPolaris]

MisterJB wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...
If all the other races would have wanted the humans dead, they would have known and felt it.

The turians tried. But then the asari decided that we could be used as attack dogs.

Indeed, the Asari and Salarians explicitly (by a 2-1 vote) told the Turians to back off and pay reperations.  The Turians were mobilizing for total war (and not just to make humanity a client state either).  That may have been their initial intent but it was going far beyond that when the rest of the council stepped in.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

1136342t54 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Please post a quote showing that the Turians were ever an associate member (when the lore strongly implies otherwise). Any will do.

-Polaris

So you can't support your claims then? Good to know.

You can't either.  Nice to know.

-Polaris

[Archdemon 15]

I can't wait for Kalros!

[1136342t54_]

IanPolaris wrote...

You can't either.  Nice to know.

-Polaris

In the same post I asked for a quote I told you directly from the codex that it is stated that humanity has achieved more in decades than races have in centuries. That is a large reason why so many races are so pissed at humanity advancing so fast.

A political-economic pact for collective colonial security, the Alliance is the central galactic institution of human society. The Alliance gained associate membership to the Citadel Council in 2165 and full membership in 2183, with Ambassador David Anderson or Donnel Udina (depending on the player's choice) representing humanity.Human political-economic relationships vary between combative and lucrative. The turians who'd fought humans during the 2157 First Contact War have become valuable trade partners, despite residual social hostility.Other relationships are even more complicated. The rapid rise of human political influence on the Council -- achieving in decades what other waited or are still waiting centuries to acquire -- has galvanized suspicion and resentment against humanity. That negativity is vastly outweighed by the respect and trust humanity earned by saving the Council during the 2183 attack on the Citadel, at the cost of Alliance cruisers Cairo, Cape Town, Emden, Jakarta, Madrid, Seoul, Shenyang, and Warsaw and their 2400 crew.

Modifié par 1136342t54 , 09 janvier 2012 - 11:08 .

[Sgt Stryker]

didymos1120 wrote...

Sgt Stryker wrote...

So um, did Liara forget her helmet at the digsite and had to settle for a breather mask?

Don't start, damn it.  You already know the answer.

Just sayin'. That low-pressure atmosphere of 95% carbon dioxide and mean temperature of -63 degrees C can't be good for exposed skin, eyes, and ears.

[Blacklash93]

IanPolaris wrote...
It hasn't changed since the dawn of civilization, and there is no reason to think it will change people being people.
-Polaris

And this self-defeating attitude of excuses is exactly why. All hope is smothered within it.

[didymos1120]

Sgt Stryker wrote...

Just sayin'. That low-pressure atmosphere of 95% carbon dioxide and mean temperature of -63 degrees C can't be good for exposed skin, eyes, and ears.

Yes, that is true, but this is not another "breather masks are bad" thread.  For that matter, it's not a "History of the Turian Hierarchy" thread either (a sidetrack I admittedly let myself get sucked into).

[1136342t54_]

The lore even shows that Humanity is the fastest growing race period. That would mean that the the Turians had an embassy either during or not long after the Krogan Rebellions.

It makes more sense that the Turians had an embassy before they were on the Council. It wouldn't make sense otherwise. Either way I'm starting to suggest you would need a dev to speak on it so you would be convinced.

[MisterJB]

1136342t54 wrote...
Prove that the Turians wanted humanity exterminated.

Logical deduction. The turians witnessed a never before seen species breaking a council law. Ignoring the fact that humans were not under the council's authority at the time, there were a myriad of peaceful solutions for this problem. For example, position their ships in front of the relay and fire a few warning shots.

Instead, they shot to kill. When we retaliated, instead of trying to negotiate and explain their actions, they occupied what could have been our homeworld for all they knew. When we kicked them out, they started mobilizing for large scale war.

Is there any other conclusion that can be drawn from this besides "The turians wanted to kill or enslave us all"?

[Someone With Mass]

Fdingo wrote...

Ha. So the spoilers/leak about Mars and Eva were true.

The ones about Eva appears to have changed a little, though.

Unless it's another case of the magazine misunderstanding something BioWare said. Wouldn't be the first time.

[Sgt Stryker]

Someone With Mass wrote...
The ones about Eva appears to have changed a little, though.

Unless it's another case of the magazine misunderstanding something BioWare said and just running with it anyway. Wouldn't be the first time.

Fixed.

[Fdingo]

Or they didn't just want to give away the whole thing in the magazine.

[DiebytheSword]

Spaedar wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Um, the Turians are an agressive and imperialistic race.  Overtly so.  Even Turians will admit this.  Of course the Turians interpret it much like the 18th and 19th century British viewed their Imperialism (i.e. a "White man's burden) but that doesn't make them less aggressive or less imperialistic.  Also the Turians DO have a tendency to bomb a problem into submission with overwhelming force rather than to solve it.  It's almost cliche but it's a cliche for a reason.

-Polaris

That they are in the eyes of the other races, and humanity has it's own label attached to it just as the quarians, salarians, batarians and so on. This does not by default make them out to the aggressive beast that want to rule the galaxy that you seem to have them figured as, especially if you're basing this on the First Contact War, which does not reflect the race as a whole since it was only about the faction Desolas controlled. The turians have their place in Council Space amongst more diplomatic asari and the strategists in the salarians, each race lives and coexists with minor tension and always keeping tabs on each other. 
By your logic humanity should be judged by the doings of the Cerberus clusters, which is not an imagine I'd argue the Alliance woud want attached to it.

While you are quite correct to not label individuals or races with the actions of organizations, Polaris is also correct about the actions of the Turian Heirarchy.  We know Garrus and a few other Turians are stand up folk not very different from humans in terms of temperment, but their leaders, whether they want them to be so or not, are expansionist and violent, even when the situation might be solved by better means.

Similarly, people will judge humanity not only by the Alliance's, but by Cerberus' actions.

[IanPolaris]

1136342t54 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

You can't either.  Nice to know.

-Polaris

In the same post I asked for a quote I told you directly from the codex that it is stated that humanity has achieved more in decades than races have in centuries. That is a large reason why so many races are so pissed at humanity advancing so fast.

A political-economic pact for collective colonial security, the Alliance is the central galactic institution of human society. The Alliance gained associate membership to the Citadel Council in 2165 and full membership in 2183, with Ambassador David Anderson or Donnel Udina (depending on the player's choice) representing humanity.Human political-economic relationships vary between combative and lucrative. The turians who'd fought humans during the 2157 First Contact War have become valuable trade partners, despite residual social hostility.Other relationships are even more complicated. The rapid rise of human political influence on the Council -- achieving in decades what other waited or are still waiting centuries to acquire -- has galvanized suspicion and resentment against humanity. That negativity is vastly outweighed by the respect and trust humanity earned by saving the Council during the 2183 attack on the Citadel, at the cost of Alliance cruisers Cairo, Cape Town, Emden, Jakarta, Madrid, Seoul, Shenyang, and Warsaw and their 2400 crew.

This quote doesn't prove a thing about Turians.

-Polaris

[XkooleS99]

Hi guys read this:
"By 900 CE, the turians have filled the military and peacekeeping niche in Citadel space vacated by the krogan. In recognition of their role during and after the Rebellions, the turians were inducted into the Citadel Council as the third race with full membership. ." or hear this ->http://masseffect.wi...urian_Codex.ogg

[aridor1570]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Fdingo wrote...

Ha. So the spoilers/leak about Mars and Eva were true.

The ones about Eva appears to have changed a little, though.

Unless it's another case of the magazine misunderstanding something BioWare said. Wouldn't be the first time.

Isn't the article reporting things that happened in game, things the writer experianced?

[IanPolaris]

XkooleS99 wrote...

Hi guys read this:
"By 900 CE, the turians have filled the military and peacekeeping niche in Citadel space vacated by the krogan. In recognition of their role during and after the Rebellions, the turians were inducted into the Citadel Council as the third race with full membership. ." or hear this ->http://masseffect.wi...urian_Codex.ogg

Which pretty much proves what I was saying all along.  The Turians were allies until inducted as full members.  The Turians clearly labeled as independant prior to this.

-Polaris

[1136342t54_]

MisterJB wrote...

1136342t54 wrote...
Prove that the Turians wanted humanity exterminated.

Logical deduction. The turians witnessed a never before seen species breaking a council law. Ignoring the fact that humans were not under the council's authority at the time, there were a myriad of peaceful solutions for this problem. For example, position their ships in front of the relay and fire a few warning shots.

Instead, they shot to kill. When we retaliated, instead of trying to negotiate and explain their actions, they occupied what could have been our homeworld for all they knew. When we kicked them out, they started mobilizing for large scale war.

Is there any other conclusion that can be drawn from this besides "The turians wanted to kill or enslave us all"?

Multiple reasons. Although a more clear one would be that they wanted a client race. I have been hearing that the Reaper artifact was another reason.

[Wulfram]

edit: More on topic:

The thresher maw killing the reaper continues to bug me.  It can only happen because the Reaper is stupidly designed and stupidly employed.

Sounds like I won't like Vega very much.

hhh89 wrote...

Still someone of the Alliance (or so I remember, not sure about that).
I agree that the Treaty isn't fair, and that ridicously advantages the Turians. Still, humanity has now the possibility to increase their dreadnoughts numbers.

Advantages the Turians?  Rather the opposite.  The fundamental arithmetic of the Treaty of Farixen is 3+3 > 5.  Or to put it another way, it exists as a way to stop the Turians from creating a fleet larger than that of the Founding Council races.

Modifié par Wulfram, 09 janvier 2012 - 11:22 .