16 réponses à ce sujet

[VirtualAlex]

 I have never used a flashbang in a game yet, but seen it in many videos. I am curious why it is so good compared to the inferno?

They both stagger people with defenses, flashbang knocks them down without defense, inferno lights them on fire and makes them panic. Evolved inferno to "wide blast' make it explode into MORE grenades dealing extenisve damage and staggering/panicing a large area.

I mean I guess at the core, flashbang probably disables people for longer, but inferno does much much more damage. How come inferno never gets any love?

[CoffeeHolic93]

VirtualAlex wrote...

 I have never used a flashbang in a game yet, but seen it in many videos. I am curious why it is so good compared to the inferno?

They both stagger people with defenses, flashbang knocks them down without defense, inferno lights them on fire and makes them panic. Evolved inferno to "wide blast' make it explode into MORE grenades dealing extenisve damage and staggering/panicing a large area.

I mean I guess at the core, flashbang probably disables people for longer, but inferno does much much more damage. How come inferno never gets any love?

Every problem I have with Inferno grenade can be summed up in this video made by RedC

First of all - Flashbang is a guaranteed hit when the enemy is within the radius. Inferno grenade doesn't do that.

Flashbang overheats weaponry - even if the enemy has protections, staggers them aswell, knocks them over if they don't have protections, kills unprotected hushs like any CC power does, NEUTERS Harbinger AND has an incredible radius.

The downsides being - a slightly long cooldown with no cooldown upgrade other than your passive, you have to aim it on your own and it's not instant if Kasumi isn't the one casting it.

Inferno grenade though? Oh boy, where to start.

Damage? Don't rely on it... doesn't even strip armor properly - even with the multiplier.

CC? Too unreliable - even for a grenade. Add the slight delay, and the randomness of the frags and you've got yourself one of the worst firedance proccers in the game. Doesn't CC elites for long either, and it doesn't CC Krogan at all.

Predictability? This isn't too much of an issue with the flashbang as the radius more than makes up for any lack of skill (even I've used it to mediocre effect, and I'm a poor shot. ), but the initial detonation is pitiful, and the random frags I mentioned before don't help matters at all.

The long cooldown that is justified on Flashbang due to how multi-purpose it is, and the range it covers just is way too prohibitive with this power. I could understand chugging a few for giggles if it didn't put you on cooldown - but the global cooldown system neuters any justification.

Looks?
...
Yeah, Inferno grenade has one thing over Flashbang... It looks sick as hell. 

If I'm not grabbing Disruptor Ammo on Zaeed I use the 'Ferno rather than Concussive. For effect mostly, and since he's there for weapon damage and Concussive Shot is... Well, concussive shot I don't feel like I'm losing much.

I hope this is reply has the answers you were looking for.  Caesar is the guy to go to with further questions, as he was the one doing all the tests (major props).

[capn233]

Flashbang is good and inferno grenade is terrible. That's about it.

I actually think concussive shot is more worthwhile than inferno grenade.

[Onpoint17]

Improved flashbang is downright punishing on unprotected enemies. It has a lot more functionality than an inferno grenade. When enemies are knocked down by a flashbang they take a lot more damage. Once you learn how to throw it it can be one of the most powerful bonus powers in the game.

[mcsupersport]

capn233 wrote...

Flashbang is good and inferno grenade is terrible. That's about it.

I actually think concussive shot is more worthwhile than inferno grenade.

Playing a shotgun Infiltrator and Adept, I know concussive shot is more worthwhile.  I am getting to the point of actually thinking of maxing it on my next Soldier and squadmates that have it just because I get so much use out of it.  It may not be worth it on the Soldier class but Zaeed it is definitely worth the points since IG is such a pig.

[HolyAvenger]

I used IG once. Never again, too slow, too ineffective (doesn't even strip armour properly).

Not sure why people dislike Concussive Shot. Its multipurpose (take down barriers, put unprotected enemies on their ass). I always make Garrus (AP ammo is too limited), Zaeed (IG ugh) and Grunt (don't bother either with ammo since Jacob or Shep has it) max theirs out. I find it a very useful power.

[CoffeeHolic93]

HolyAvenger wrote...

I used IG once. Never again, too slow, too ineffective (doesn't even strip armour properly).

Not sure why people dislike Concussive Shot. Its multipurpose (take down barriers, put unprotected enemies on their ass). I always make Garrus (AP ammo is too limited), Zaeed (IG ugh) and Grunt (don't bother either with ammo since Jacob or Shep has it) max theirs out. I find it a very useful power.

It IS useful. There's just better powers out there, so it's easy to dismiss it. 

I did get some use out of it when playing a Claymore Only soldier, where I shattered frozen enemies with it for giggles.

[capn233]

Maybe more useful powers for Shepard. Not for all the squaddies.

Garrus is one of my favorites for the squad. I typically max his out (at least after LOTSB). Even only at Rank 3 it is pretty decent. The damage bonus when an enemy is on the ground is pretty useful.

And it isn't like you could simply sub in say Flashbang... CS is on tankier squad members than Kasumi so not really apples to oranges.

For Shepard, it sort of depends. I don't like using as much as a soldier just because Adrenaline Rush is so good. But I did usually have points in it and would use it if the need to knock down someone was pressing.

[VirtualAlex]

Thanks for all the replays, flashbang gets tech power bonuses? That alone is super useful. Now I need to play a class that can use it... Currently playing as a vanguard so I can't really take it now.

[SpockLives]

Sorry, Flashbang does not get tech upgrades.  It is a combat power, not a tech power.  Only generic x% power damage bonuses affect it, same as Incindiary grenade.  The Gameplay Data Thread goes into more detail.

Modifié par SpockLives, 10 janvier 2012 - 07:11 .

[capn233]

It's somewhat strange that they have the combat class of powers and there aren't any upgrades that improves it like for tech or biotics...

[ryoldschool]

capn233 wrote...

It's somewhat strange that they have the combat class of powers and there aren't any upgrades that improves it like for tech or biotics...

A lot of people agree with you, captain.  On my cryo Revenant Soldier run I had maxed Concussive Shot so I could shatter enemies, and it was a lot of fun for that.  But for a damage point of view it did almost nothing.  I know that it has a high multiplier vs barriers but in-game it does almost nothing.  On Tali's mission when the geth prime was down to health it took 6 shots @ lvl 3 CC here.

I understand that in ME3 they will add an ammo power effect to CC, so maybe that will make it more useful.

[RedCaesar97]

capn233 wrote...

It's somewhat strange that they have the combat class of powers and there aren't any upgrades that improves it like for tech or biotics...

To be fair, Concussive Shot, Adrenaline Rush, and Fortification are the only non-DLC combat powers, not nearly enough to be worth combat upgrades in my opinion. Ammo powers are in their own category. Inferno Grenade could benefit from combat power upgrades, but Flashbang Grenade would have to be tweaked so that upgrades do not make it completely overpowered.

[RedCaesar97]

HolyAvenger wrote...
Not sure why people dislike Concussive Shot. Its multipurpose (take down barriers, put unprotected enemies on their ass).  

Concussive Shot is multipurpose, but each purpose is overshadowed by another better power:

• Warp and Reave can take down barriers much quicker, and they benefit from upgrades. At Level 30, Heavy Concussive Shot + max damage armor and passive will not completely strip the weakest barriers in the game. (I have video evidence, I just have to edit it and then post it.)
• Concussive Shot can knock enemies down, but so can other powers, particularly Throw. And the other powers--except Flashbang--benefit from upgrades.

[HolyAvenger]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Concussive Shot is multipurpose, but each purpose is overshadowed by another better power:

• Warp and Reave can take down barriers much quicker, and they benefit from upgrades. At Level 30, Heavy Concussive Shot + max damage armor and passive will not completely strip the weakest barriers in the game. (I have video evidence, I just have to edit it and then post it.)
• Concussive Shot can knock enemies down, but so can other powers, particularly Throw. And the other powers--except Flashbang--benefit from upgrades.

I'm talking about CS for allies, not for SoldierShep. It comes on three of the best combat teammates in the game hence I find it a very useful power. Reave is only available on one teammate (and not till late in the game), and agreed that Warp is better but if you want to take warp you're stuck with certain squadmates. I prefer it to biotics (especially on Collector missions) due to its dual-purpose nature.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

HolyAvenger wrote...
I'm talking about CS for allies, not for SoldierShep.

This is the most crucial detail that should be stressed whenever talking about CS, lol.


But back on topic. Before we all learned to use Slam/NeuralShock/Stasis, Flashbang Grenade was considered a game-breaking bonus power. It's still probably amongst the best. While it doesn't do quite as much raw damage as Inferno, it's damage isn't dependent on actual fragments, it does better cc, it's Dampening effect ignores the defenses of most enemies and its AoE is the biggest in the game. Totally winner winner turkey dinner. It's even better on Kasumi than Shepard though.