645 réponses à ce sujet

[HiroVoid]

Gnaeus.Silvanus wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

DA2 was a game that disappointed many people. When a game comes out that's not well-recieved, there's a probable chance that the sequel at least won't sell initially as much.

Haha, the bad rap of Dragon Age 2 doesn't seem to hold ground anymore when you play the game after a long hiatus. Why not do yourself a favor and play with it again. My opinion changed when I gave it another try, hell I'm enjoying it now more than ever.

Meh.  Why not?  I still have the game.  I think I gave it a pretty fair shot the second time though.  My statement still stands in DA2 being disappointing to a lot of people with gameinformer and many other sites putting in on most diappointing as well as other forums.  If DA3 can pull out really good quality though, that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[Dubya75]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

So.... appears we'll get a Dragon Age movie reveal tomorrow.


Tie in DLC?  What do you think the chances are?

Very slim.

[Dubya75]

HiroVoid wrote...

Gnaeus.Silvanus wrote...

HiroVoid wrote...

DA2 was a game that disappointed many people. When a game comes out that's not well-recieved, there's a probable chance that the sequel at least won't sell initially as much.

Haha, the bad rap of Dragon Age 2 doesn't seem to hold ground anymore when you play the game after a long hiatus. Why not do yourself a favor and play with it again. My opinion changed when I gave it another try, hell I'm enjoying it now more than ever.

Meh.  Why not?  I still have the game.  I think I gave it a pretty fair shot the second time though.  My statement still stands in DA2 being disappointing to a lot of people with gameinformer and many other sites putting in on most diappointing as well as other forums.  If DA3 can pull out really good quality though, that shouldn't be too much of a problem.

You have to make up your own mind about the game (by playing it).
I've played through it 7 times and really enjoyed it even though it is in many ways a very flawed game.
The gameplay mechanics and the story telling is what saved it for me.

[ElitePinecone]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

And again, my whole point was to demonstrate that "DA2 sold well enough to cover its costs" is a dead-end argument. If you settle on a franchise that is likely to only break even, you run the risk of an iteration of that series doing poorly and NOT covering its expenses. On the other hand, if you have a series that continuosly grows and develops its fanbase over time, iterating a similar type of gameplay experience, but with both mechancial and graphical upgrades, then you can expect sustainable growth and sales.

In the above, the leap between DAO to DA2 is the franchise that makes enough to cover its own costs and provides very little return for a two year investment when you only have three products. An example of consistently delivering the same gameplay and feel with steady improvements would be a franchise like The Elder Scrolls, which has steadily increased its marketshare with every iteration.

I agree with this, even if I think it indulges in generalisations - my point was only that DA2 in isolation did, by all accounts, make a profit. Even though this shouldn't be noted without reference to the future (DA3 in particular), and to the past (the influence of DAO on sales figures, say), it's unfounded to suggest that the title was a loss for the company, as some did 

A disappointment, in terms of sales figures? Possibly.  In fan reaction? Almost certainly, even if we discount the most vehemently-screaming, frothing critics. 

The longer term ramifications of the playerbase drop and fan reaction is much more nebulous, and I don't want to even pretend to know what Bioware's take on it is (or, for that matter, the mindset behind DA2's release). I doubt we'll ever know, unless a developer is particularly candid one day. 

I do find it genuinely baffling that the game was planned, created and released as it was. This isn't a slight on the dev team, because some things are out of even their control, but I can't begin to comprehend why some things in the conception, production and launch of DA2 happened the way they did. 

But I would agree that the drastic drop in total fans is concerning, and that short-term, less-expensive launches with lower sales figures are not the direction I'd find appealing for DA games. 

RE: DotS DLC? Well, let's hope so. 

I, for one, really would like an ending for DA2. 

[Yrkoon]

ElitePinecone wrote...
I do find it genuinely baffling that the game was planned, created and released as it was. This isn't a slight on the dev team, because some things are out of even their control, but I can't begin to comprehend why some things in the conception, production and launch of DA2 happened the way they did. 

It's not that baffling.  They misjudged the Audience.  Plain and simple.  They  overhauled Mass Effect, made it more of a modern shooter and the result was a resounding success, both in sales and critical acclaim.   So they said...  Hey lets do the same thing with Dragon age!  And...  it didn't work.  Because   the core  Audience was different.    Many of those who bought and loved DA:O did so because of its old-school feel.  So when DA2 came out  and these same fans saw their beloved Dragon age become  faster,  flashier, more intense, more actiony, it just didn't gel.  Didn't appeal.    Many decided  to flat out not bother with it, while  others, like me, bought it, then found out the hard way that it wasn't  our type of game.

Bioware has an unusually large mountain to climb  here.    They literally have to re-establish  the  DA Franchise if
 they want to get all of DA:O's fan base back.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 janvier 2012 - 10:09 .

[Dubya75]

Yrkoon wrote...

ElitePinecone wrote...
I do find it genuinely baffling that the game was planned, created and released as it was. This isn't a slight on the dev team, because some things are out of even their control, but I can't begin to comprehend why some things in the conception, production and launch of DA2 happened the way they did. 

It's not that baffling.  They misjudged the Audience.  Plain and simple.  They  overhauled Mass Effect and the result was a resounding success, both in sales and critical acclaim.   So they said... lets do the same thing with Dragon age!  And...  it didn't work.  Because  core  Audience was different,   many of those who bought and loved DA:O did not want faster,  flashier, more intense, more actiony  crap.

Hang on, you're basing this on your own dislike of the combat system? I don't think this is what ElitePinecone was referring to since it was not explicitly mentioned.
I think there's a bit more to it than not linking the combat system which by the way, is actually pretty darn good! Technically, one of the best RPG combat systems I have ever come across.

There are more glaring problems like lack of content and shamelessly recycled environments that should NEVER have been allowed.
These are the things that really let the game down. Not the combat.

Modifié par Dubya75, 27 janvier 2012 - 09:56 .

[Yrkoon]

It's not just the combat system (although combat is a big part of it, yes). It's everything. Flemeth is flashier; the artstyle is louder, The writing is less subtle. The skills like stealth, potion and trap making are either removed, or streamlined for faster gameplay.  The whole thing just screams  "look at me, I'm DA:O on steroids  to wow the action crowd!"

Bleh.  You don't have to tell me that I'm just voicing my opinion.  I know I am.    it's just that I can't go to any gaming site without hearing the same thing  being said by other people, over and over again.  Seriously, how many times have you heard someone call the game   Dragon Effect?

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 janvier 2012 - 10:09 .

[Dubya75]

Yrkoon wrote...

It's not just the combat system (although combat is a big part of it, yes). It's everything. Flemeth is flashier; the artstyle is louder, The writing is less subtle. The skills like stealth, potion and trap making are either removed, or streamlined for faster gameplay.  The whole thing just screams  "look at me, I'm DA:O on steroids  to wow the action crowd!"

Bleh.  You don't have to tell me that I'm just voicing my opinion.  I know I am.    it's just that I can't go to any gaming site without hearing the same thing  being said by other people, over and over again.  Seriously, how many times have you heard someone call the game   Dragon Effect?

The only thing DA2 has in common with ME2 is the dialogue wheel. 
Apart from that they are vastly different games.
And the combat system was generally positively received (apart from exploding bodies and enemy spawning which was later fixed in a patch).

[Merci357]

Yrkoon wrote...

It's not that baffling.  They misjudged the Audience.  Plain and simple.  They  overhauled Mass Effect, made it more of a modern shooter and the result was a resounding success, both in sales and critical acclaim.   So they said...  Hey lets do the same thing with Dragon age!  And...  it didn't work.  Because   the core  Audience was different.    Many of those who bought and loved DA:O did so because of its old-school feel.  So when DA2 came out  and these same fans saw their beloved Dragon age become  faster,  flashier, more intense, more actiony, it just didn't gel.  Didn't appeal.    Many decided  to flat out not bother with it, while  others, like me, bought it, then found out the hard way that it wasn't  our type of game.

Honestly, I don't think the core audience is that different. There are only so many RPGs per year, and at least my friends and I play (almost) all of them, regardless of the setting or if it's called the ME, DA, TES, DE, TW. Of course, I don't like all of them the same, however, ME2 was polished and almost bugfree, with a lot of noticeable production value. DA2 was the opposite, and that's why it failed. Not because the fans of DA:O are a different subset of players, but because of the short comings of DA2.

To put it simple - quality matters, and DA2 wasn't the quality I expect from an AAA RPG, especially the lack of player agency. And besides me not a single friend of me bothered with DA2 DLC, they moved on to play TW2, DE:HR or other games.

[Kail Ashton]

Ok this turned from "hey anymore dlc?" to armchair game designer wannabes, none of you know jack about the industry, all of you don't know what mass audiances want and you would all fail marvelously at game development

We clear? good, now whenever will we get the next DA2 DLC i wonders, hmmz still hope'n early feb but the me3 demo fiasco has thrown this all straight to hell

[Yrkoon]

Kail Ashton wrote...

Ok this turned from "hey anymore dlc?" to armchair game designer wannabes, none of you know jack about the industry, all of you don't know what mass audiances want and you would all fail marvelously at game development 

Lets see...  Bioware's Marketing Director is... David Silverman.  You know David Silverman, right?    He's the Brilliant Genius that  confused Shepard with Hawke in one interview.     He's also the one who came up with the "Button-Awesome" line and parroted  it in one  media interview after another... for months.

Yeah,  in a choice of him vs. the posters here, I know who I'll be choosing to get my AUDIENCE'S information from.  How about you?

[Melca36]

Dubya75 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

It's not just the combat system (although combat is a big part of it, yes). It's everything. Flemeth is flashier; the artstyle is louder, The writing is less subtle. The skills like stealth, potion and trap making are either removed, or streamlined for faster gameplay.  The whole thing just screams  "look at me, I'm DA:O on steroids  to wow the action crowd!"

Bleh.  You don't have to tell me that I'm just voicing my opinion.  I know I am.    it's just that I can't go to any gaming site without hearing the same thing  being said by other people, over and over again.  Seriously, how many times have you heard someone call the game   Dragon Effect?

The only thing DA2 has in common with ME2 is the dialogue wheel. 
Apart from that they are vastly different games.
And the combat system was generally positively received (apart from exploding bodies and enemy spawning which was later fixed in a patch).

Actually they copied the Fetch & Deliver quest style Mass Effect 2 had.

It works in Mass Effect 2...it does NOT work in Dragon Age 2.

[Asch Lavigne]

Melca36 wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

It's not just the combat system (although combat is a big part of it, yes). It's everything. Flemeth is flashier; the artstyle is louder, The writing is less subtle. The skills like stealth, potion and trap making are either removed, or streamlined for faster gameplay.  The whole thing just screams  "look at me, I'm DA:O on steroids  to wow the action crowd!"

Bleh.  You don't have to tell me that I'm just voicing my opinion.  I know I am.    it's just that I can't go to any gaming site without hearing the same thing  being said by other people, over and over again.  Seriously, how many times have you heard someone call the game   Dragon Effect?

The only thing DA2 has in common with ME2 is the dialogue wheel. 
Apart from that they are vastly different games.
And the combat system was generally positively received (apart from exploding bodies and enemy spawning which was later fixed in a patch).

Actually they copied the Fetch & Deliver quest style Mass Effect 2 had.

It works in Mass Effect 2...it does NOT work in Dragon Age 2.

It has the lack of romance scenes that ME2 had and the whole you can't equip armor on your companions either. Alternate appearances are not the same thing!

[Gotholhorakh]

Dubya75 wrote...
The only thing DA2 has in common with ME2 is the dialogue wheel. 

Well... it's been a long time now, if we say that quickly enough and move along, I suppose people will forget about the fixed protagonist name and race, and the forced TPS view, and the fixed companion armours, the "paraphrasing" of dialogue options, voiced protagonist, the "talk to companions on the Normandy" field, and so on. TBF it's easy to forget this stuff nearly a year later, I had to think about it for a moment myself.

Respectfully though, the only thing? Do me a favour. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]  Hawke is Shepherd, the Hawke Estate is the Normandy, companions/messages/armours/conversation all work so similarly as to be "uncanny", and although swinging your rifle at people has been the subject of months of lavish and painstaking extra animation - how is that OTS combat not more like Mass Effect than DA:O?

I can see what you're saying, the content is different, the melee combat has been expanded upon, and it doesn't seem to have been as well-received, but mechanics, design decisions and IIRC possibly even implementation (ref some BW interview about the dialogue system ages ago) from Mass Effect can be seen in DA2 so even if that's coincidence it does look, walk and quack like "a game that's more like Mass Effect than Origins was".

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 28 janvier 2012 - 12:07 .

[Wotannanow]

Dubya75 wrote...
It's not just me. Game Journalist SteveGarbage raises the question about whether or not we are going to see anything further in terms of DA2 DLC and I am tempted to go with his second scenario in which Bioware has indeed decided to pull the plug on the project.

I hope they prove us wrong.

I think the year 2012 Bioware will concentrate on ME 3.

[NedPepper]

Wotannanow wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...
It's not just me. Game Journalist SteveGarbage raises the question about whether or not we are going to see anything further in terms of DA2 DLC and I am tempted to go with his second scenario in which Bioware has indeed decided to pull the plug on the project.

I hope they prove us wrong.

I think the year 2012 Bioware will concentrate on ME 3.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Dragon Age has its own team.  I'm pretty sure Laidlaw and Gaider don't work on Mass Effect.  If anything, they are beginning to visualize what Dragon Age 3 will look and feel like.  Although I'm greatly disappointed that Hawke's story will never be finished.  I'm also greatly disappointed that Bioware can't just be honest and tell us what's going on with the property.  If you believe this message board, the Dragon Age franchise is dead and GOOD RIDDANCE!    For the rest of us who are...well, FANS of the product, we're left hanging.  And as time wastingly dull as Skyrim is, at least it gives me a game to play.  I'd rather be playing Dragon Age.  That's just me.  I miss Hawke and the gang.  More than I miss my Wardens, to be honest.  (And I'm strangely apathetic about Mass Effect 3.  I'm going to buy it and import ol' Roy Shepard over, but, again, in all honesty, I'd be more excited about more Dragon Age.  It may just be I'm all hyped out when it comes to ME 3.)

[Dubya75]

nedpepper wrote...

Wotannanow wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...
It's not just me. Game Journalist SteveGarbage raises the question about whether or not we are going to see anything further in terms of DA2 DLC and I am tempted to go with his second scenario in which Bioware has indeed decided to pull the plug on the project.

I hope they prove us wrong.

I think the year 2012 Bioware will concentrate on ME 3.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Dragon Age has its own team. 

And you'd probably be right - something part of the community here can't get their heads around...

[Yrkoon]

Right, but a company is generally not in the business of competing with itself. So if you're looking for a big Dragon age announcement between now and March, you're probably going to find nothing of the sort. Because ME3 is the focus right now.

[NedPepper]

To the detriment of the Dragon Age franchise? Are they really competing by releasing DLC? Why not use Mass Effect 3 and a Dragon Age DLC as a kind of cross promotion? You know....like they are doing with Kingdoms of Alam..mo...or whatever Curt Schilling's cartoony rpg is called? I'm not buying this whole "can't compete with ourselves." It's never stopped them before.

Modifié par nedpepper, 29 janvier 2012 - 04:32 .

[Gemini1179]

ElitePinecone wrote...

 my point was only that DA2 in isolation did, by all accounts, make a profit.

I'd like to know how exactly you came to that conclusion. We know for a fact that BioWare doesn't release production cost info.

I find it highly unlikely that there will be any new significant DA2 DLC. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they've got a whole bunch of stuff in the works. Doesn't really matter to me as my "DA high" wore off a while ago and it is very unlikely I'll even come back to the game. I'll probably only do that after DA3 and only if that game shows a marked increase in the quailty of the product from DA2.

TOR rules my world right now. Even booted me from Skyrim.