434 réponses à ce sujet

[Adugan]

BUT GUYS TIM IS RENEGADE AND IF SHEPARD FOLLOWS TIM WHICH ALL SHEPARDS DO IN ME2 IT MEANS ALL SHEPARDS ARE RENEGADE AND LOVE TIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

[Firesteel]

Adugan wrote...

BUT GUYS TIM IS RENEGADE AND IF SHEPARD FOLLOWS TIM WHICH ALL SHEPARDS DO IN ME2 IT MEANS ALL SHEPARDS ARE RENEGADE AND LOVE TIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

As a rebutal:
BUT ITZ RAILROADING DOOD AND I DON'T VOLUNTARILY FOLLOW HIM IM FORCED TO AND I CAN BE PARAGON AND HATE TIMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111

To be serious, you can do missions TIM assigns you, but you can actively work against him at certain points (overlord and the N7 data mission where you can give Cerberus intel to the Alliance).

[goofyomnivore]

I don't support Cerberus. I don't really care much for the Alliance either. However I keep the base due to the impending dire circumstances, and destroying an enemy stronghold when we can capture it is worth the risk.

[GodWood]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
The point is, playing pre-dominantly renegade does not entail allegiance to Cerberus as stated in the OP. Whoever had any hope of it, renegade or otherwise, are/were out-of-touch.

Is this another one of your bizarre misinterpretations of the "other's" position?

Yes, not all Renegades are pro-Cerberus but that doesn't mean there's no such thing as a pro-Cerberus Shepard. You simply just have to pick the pro-Cerberus choices.

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, guy, so put your broken-record "HYR just doesn't listen!!!" statements aside. I get why people on here make that decision and basically have no problem with it. But believing that a pro-Cerberus path entitles you to long-term cooperation = epic fail thinking. If anything, I'd argue handing him the base makes him less likely to deal with you in the future.

We have the same goals. The same interests. The same methods. We're already more then willing to work together and we're already allies.

Of course they're going to betray me!

Modifié par GodWood, 11 janvier 2012 - 07:13 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

Firesteel7 wrote...
I make idealistic decisions, in that I allow people to live based on the theory people are essentially good or at least don't want to get my attention again, as I will kill them if they show me they have learned nothing. I believe that if I cooperate with allies, this will make Citadel space more unified, and therefore overall more powerful. I generally see that in the long run, killing random people leads to very nasty surprises and generally less possibility for cooperation against the Reapers. I would argue that Cerberus's track record is reason enough to not give them the base. Most of their experiments have failed miserably, getting more people killed, despite their goals of saving lives.

Efficiency in this discussion is relative. In the extreme long run, I see that cooperation is the absolute best outcome. Theoretically if everyone on the council is equal, the amount of combined power will be greater than having an unequal group where one or two members are powerful, with everyone else basically being figureheads.

I see where you're coming from, but I consider that far too idealistic. As in - unattainable.

Everyone on the council being equal will always reamin just theoretical. Will never happen.
Best outcome in the long run only matter if you survive long enough to reap the benefits.

Cerberus track record (which isn't that bad) isn't a reason at all. Even if the chances of suces are 0,0000001% it's still worth taking. What alternatives do you have anyway?

[BiggBno]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but.

Per definition of the word Renegade all Pro Cerberus are Renegades.Actually all Shepards in ME2 is Renegades.
Mind you that is per definition.

From Merriam-Webster:
Definition of RENEGADE
1: a deserter from one faith, cause, or allegiance to another
2: an individual who rejects lawful or conventional behavior

[Adugan]

BiggBno wrote...

I don't know if this has been mentioned before but.

Per definition of the word Renegade all Pro Cerberus are Renegades.Actually all Shepards in ME2 is Renegades.
Mind you that is per definition.

From Merriam-Webster:
Definition of RENEGADE
1: a deserter from one faith, cause, or allegiance to another
2: an individual who rejects lawful or conventional behavior

LOL you dont know what you just did.

[BiggBno]

Well, I have a nice duvet I can hide under if it gets too bad..

[goofyomnivore]

Well the word "renegade" IIRC was the term used to describe people who deserted the Christian religion for Islam. That definition sounds spot on considering it's origin and who wrote it.

However words evolve over history. I'd say "renegade" is more like being a "rebel", and being a rebel isn't always bad.

Hey strive, long time no see! Didn't even reconize you with your new avatar! How ya doin'?

Not bad just settled in at university, last semester before I graduate. Then onto law school hopefully. Hope you had happy holidays.

Modifié par strive, 11 janvier 2012 - 08:07 .

[AlexXIV]

Luc0s wrote...

Firesteel7 wrote...

Adugan wrote...

BUT GUYS TIM IS RENEGADE AND IF SHEPARD FOLLOWS TIM WHICH ALL SHEPARDS DO IN ME2 IT MEANS ALL SHEPARDS ARE RENEGADE AND LOVE TIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

As a rebutal:
BUT ITZ RAILROADING DOOD AND I DON'T VOLUNTARILY FOLLOW HIM IM FORCED TO AND I CAN BE PARAGON AND HATE TIMMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111

Dood bein' hatin' on TIM is bein' hypocrite tbh

Paragon Shep sez he hates TIM but at teh same time heez doin' evretang TIM asks. u no wad am sayin? 

u no I dont evn blame teh paragon playas fur bein hypocrite. I blame bioware fur bad writin tbh  


just sayin...

b/c Bioware writing sucks tbh

shuldnt of forst us

[android654]

My first Renegade Shepard is Renegade because she doesn't know how else to be. She kills things that's all she knows, which is why she wants to grind on Wrex's plates. TIM just pisses her off by thinking he can can give her orders, it'll be the reason she puts a bullet in his head.

Adama Shepard does not F**k around.

[Labrev]

GodWood wrote...

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...
The point is, playing pre-dominantly renegade does not entail allegiance to Cerberus as stated in the OP. Whoever had any hope of it, renegade or otherwise, are/were out-of-touch.

Is this another one of your bizarre misinterpretations of the "other's" position?

Again with the ole broken-record, what a surprise.

You make this claim and yet say this:

We have the same goals. The same interests. The same methods. We're
already more then willing to work together and we're already allies.

Of course they're going to betray me!

My interpretations are 100% accurate. You believe your morality (not COMPLETELY renegade, but a mix) entails loyalty to their cause. So basically, exactly what I said above.

So much for your feet-stomping "you just don't understaaannd!" routine.


As for that hatchet job itself...

We have the same goals. The same interests. The same methods. We're already more then willing to work together and we're already allies.

Of course they're going to betray me!

Brutus was Ceasar's best friend! How could he betray him?!

TIM wanted you for one thing only: to lead the O4-mission. Otherwise, you are not one of his. You come from an enemy of his organization and did not really join voluntarily, you just had no better alternative ("but HYR, I would've joined if it were my choice too!" ...well, it wasn't your choice, so no one (TIM) would know that either way.) And you worked with aliens to bring down Saren, compare that to the guy he really trusts as loyal to his cause and recruited personally (Kai Leng).

Your history indicates that you are a great candidate to do what TIM wants done with the O4-mission, lead a small team through an impossible-odds mission. It does not indicate you will cooperate with him long-term.

And believe you me, Cerberus' attitude on aliens in ME2 may have been downplayed but that does NOT mean they are no longer extremist. Many on the squad noted Cerberus having anti-alien outlooks, you will absolutely see their true colors in ME3.

Long-term cooperation with TIM is only feasible if he thinks so too. As is, he obviously doesn't trust you. And sorry, but there's little from your actions in ME2 that "clearly" spell loyalty. Whatever big decisions that you believe shows loyalty to Cerberus (probably: 'base, data, Overlord, geth salvage) can all be done in spite of them too, so it proves nothing. Especially the 'base, seeing how he played to the jury when convincing you of keeping it, appealing to your life-long goal in stopping the Reapers (remember this).

Your squad and Cerberus is a coalition, united only by one goal in stopping the Collectors/Reapers. As soon as that ceases, the coalition is broken. And as of ME3, his goal is no longer the same as yours (you know the leaks). So given your ideals next to his new-found goals - go back to what I told you to remember - it makes perfect sense that he no longer cares to work with you.

And if he were to let you in again, how would he know you weren't just opportunistically looking for a plan to foil his plans from the inside?

What you're doing is no different from those that complain about Cerberus-railroading in ME2. You can't go back to the Alliance or Council if they don't want you. Come ME3, Cerberus does not.

Modifié par Hah Yes Reapers, 11 janvier 2012 - 02:51 .

[Camenae]

Luc0s wrote...

strive wrote...

Not bad just settled in at university, last semester before I graduate. Then onto law school hopefully. Hope you had happy holidays.

Nice nice. Sounds good.

My holidays were rather boring, but I don't care. I don't care much for Christmas in the first place.


Seems this thread kinda died didn't it?

It's none of my business but my two cents from someone who's been through it:  Do not go to law school unless you:
1) Have a full ride
2) Have a job already lined up after graduation, like a family practice.
3) Are absolutely sure you're going to be top 15% of your class after the first semester of your 1L year.  (Seriously, be honest with yourself.  A full 85% of people are not going to be in the top 15% of the class).
4) Are going to Harvard/Yale/Princeton/Stanford law schools.
If none of the above 4 conditions apply to you, it's really not worth you taking up $100k in debt for that J.D.

And I'm not bitter, as I ended up with very little debt and am actually employed.  Although it was tough graduating and studying for the bar w/o having a job already lined up.  Still, looking at those who graduated with me and are still looking for jobs, man I really don't wish anyone to go through that without knowing what they're getting themselves into.

[Firesteel]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Firesteel7 wrote...
I make idealistic decisions, in that I allow people to live based on the theory people are essentially good or at least don't want to get my attention again, as I will kill them if they show me they have learned nothing. I believe that if I cooperate with allies, this will make Citadel space more unified, and therefore overall more powerful. I generally see that in the long run, killing random people leads to very nasty surprises and generally less possibility for cooperation against the Reapers. I would argue that Cerberus's track record is reason enough to not give them the base. Most of their experiments have failed miserably, getting more people killed, despite their goals of saving lives.

Efficiency in this discussion is relative. In the extreme long run, I see that cooperation is the absolute best outcome. Theoretically if everyone on the council is equal, the amount of combined power will be greater than having an unequal group where one or two members are powerful, with everyone else basically being figureheads.

I see where you're coming from, but I consider that far too idealistic. As in - unattainable.

Everyone on the council being equal will always reamin just theoretical. Will never happen.
Best outcome in the long run only matter if you survive long enough to reap the benefits.

Cerberus track record (which isn't that bad) isn't a reason at all. Even if the chances of suces are 0,0000001% it's still worth taking. What alternatives do you have anyway?

Can you explain to me what is good about Cerberus's track record, aside from resurrecting Shepard. Also, the more united a society is, the more efficient than a divided one.

I don't see how Cerberus's history does not play a part in deciding to give them the base. The possible cost can, in my opinion, never outweigh the benefits of giving, basically a terrorist organization, more technology or advantage in any way. All Cerberus's experiments in ME1 were out of control and in Ascention they were willing to do anything possible to get a little girl back. Yes she could be a powerful biotic, but aren't there other options?

Collector technology may be powerful, but the Normandy SR2 was able to, depending on how thourough one is, to go toe to toe with a cruiser that is much larger than it without much trouble. The Collector were just pawns and I don't think the Reapers would be careless enough to leave their technology easily accessible anywhere in the galaxy, just as no one knows exactly how mass relays work or the complete nature of the Citadel.

[AlexXIV]

Firesteel7 wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Firesteel7 wrote...
I make idealistic decisions, in that I allow people to live based on the theory people are essentially good or at least don't want to get my attention again, as I will kill them if they show me they have learned nothing. I believe that if I cooperate with allies, this will make Citadel space more unified, and therefore overall more powerful. I generally see that in the long run, killing random people leads to very nasty surprises and generally less possibility for cooperation against the Reapers. I would argue that Cerberus's track record is reason enough to not give them the base. Most of their experiments have failed miserably, getting more people killed, despite their goals of saving lives.

Efficiency in this discussion is relative. In the extreme long run, I see that cooperation is the absolute best outcome. Theoretically if everyone on the council is equal, the amount of combined power will be greater than having an unequal group where one or two members are powerful, with everyone else basically being figureheads.

I see where you're coming from, but I consider that far too idealistic. As in - unattainable.

Everyone on the council being equal will always reamin just theoretical. Will never happen.
Best outcome in the long run only matter if you survive long enough to reap the benefits.

Cerberus track record (which isn't that bad) isn't a reason at all. Even if the chances of suces are 0,0000001% it's still worth taking. What alternatives do you have anyway?

Can you explain to me what is good about Cerberus's track record, aside from resurrecting Shepard. Also, the more united a society is, the more efficient than a divided one.

I don't see how Cerberus's history does not play a part in deciding to give them the base. The possible cost can, in my opinion, never outweigh the benefits of giving, basically a terrorist organization, more technology or advantage in any way. All Cerberus's experiments in ME1 were out of control and in Ascention they were willing to do anything possible to get a little girl back. Yes she could be a powerful biotic, but aren't there other options?

Collector technology may be powerful, but the Normandy SR2 was able to, depending on how thourough one is, to go toe to toe with a cruiser that is much larger than it without much trouble. The Collector were just pawns and I don't think the Reapers would be careless enough to leave their technology easily accessible anywhere in the galaxy, just as no one knows exactly how mass relays work or the complete nature of the Citadel.

Because they were building a human Reaper on that base. I doubt it will be equipped with less than the best they have to offer. What I think though is that we already closed the gap. With the Thannix and other stuff we got from the Reapers. There is probably not much to be had on the reaper base that can be used in the war. Time's too short and, as I said, we are probably almost there already with our newest tech which we used to upgrade the Normandy.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 12 janvier 2012 - 01:16 .

[AlexXIV]

Luc0s wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Because they were building a human Reaper on that base. I doubt it will be equipped with less than the best they have to offer. What I think so is that we already closed the gap. With the Thannix and other stuff we got from the Reapers. There is probably not much to be had on the reaper base that can be used in the war. Time's too short and, as I said, we are probably almost there already with our newest tech which we used to upgrade the Normandy.

Why do you guys always think so practical? Weapons this, weapons that.

Don't you people realize that knowledge is the biggest weapon there is?

The Collector base might give us new info on the reapers. Info that might give us new knowledge that will be key to their defeat. This is the sole reason why I always keep the base and never destroy it.

Well yes, but question is still if for once we can research it before the war, which is unlikely and if we can trust Cerberus, which is also unlikely.

[Firesteel]

Luc0s wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Because they were building a human Reaper on that base. I doubt it will be equipped with less than the best they have to offer. What I think so is that we already closed the gap. With the Thannix and other stuff we got from the Reapers. There is probably not much to be had on the reaper base that can be used in the war. Time's too short and, as I said, we are probably almost there already with our newest tech which we used to upgrade the Normandy.

Why do you guys always think so practical? Weapons this, weapons that.

Don't you people realize that knowledge is the biggest weapon there is?

The Collector base might give us new info on the reapers. Info that might give us new knowledge that will be key to their defeat. This is the sole reason why I always keep the base and never destroy it.

I doubt the Reapers would have anything of any real value in the Collector base, as they are very careful about hiding the nature of everything they have control over. We would be able to amass quite a bit of intel on the Collectors, but not necessarily on the Reapers. I also don't forsee the baby reaper providing too much insight due to how unfinished it was. Also, the amount of time between the two games is months, making any knowledge gained in any field on the Reapers quite limited in their immediate impact.

[AlexXIV]

Luc0s wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Luc0s wrote...

AlexXIV wrote...

Because they were building a human Reaper on that base. I doubt it will be equipped with less than the best they have to offer. What I think so is that we already closed the gap. With the Thannix and other stuff we got from the Reapers. There is probably not much to be had on the reaper base that can be used in the war. Time's too short and, as I said, we are probably almost there already with our newest tech which we used to upgrade the Normandy.

Why do you guys always think so practical? Weapons this, weapons that.

Don't you people realize that knowledge is the biggest weapon there is?

The Collector base might give us new info on the reapers. Info that might give us new knowledge that will be key to their defeat. This is the sole reason why I always keep the base and never destroy it.

Well yes, but question is still if for once we can research it before the war, which is unlikely and if we can trust Cerberus, which is also unlikely.

Unlikely odds are still better than impossible odds.

The chance that a base-keeper finds something useful is small.

The chance that a base-destroyer finds something useful is zero, zip, nothing, none, nada, niente.


But we've already discussed this like a million times over.

Yes, but chances are that Cerberus is not researching the base for the war but after the war. And I'd hate if TIM brought back the Reapers after Shep sacrificed everything to end them. My problem is that you can build a Reaper if you have and understand the base. And that I wouldn't know what speaks for TIM not doing it. He resurrected Shep, he may as well resurrect a Reaper. I wouldn't even like to leave the base with the Alliance or the Council tbh. Because if there is the tech to create a Reaper then it is only a matter of time until someone does. There may be other bases and other ways to create Reapers even if we beat them. But I will be damned if my Shepard will be responsible for it in any way.