Guest_Saphra Deden_*
GodWood wrote...
Seeing how the majority of people tackle the 'moral issues' of Mass Effect has certainly exacerbated my misanthropy.Saphra Deden wrote...
All of you make me miserable and I wouldn't miss you if you were gone.
AlexXIV wrote...
Don't take him serious. Because he isn't.squee365 wrote...
Saphra Deden wrote...
squee365 wrote...
Lets make some positives of this:
Mass Effect has a really diverse fan base with people of different opinions, viewpoints, and interests. I think its awesome but I may be one of the few to see the social aspect of this >_>
All of you make me miserable and I wouldn't miss you if you were gone.
Diversity is overrated. It's a lie. It's bad.
And there's the downside. Theres people who just want to make you miserable no matter what you think...
They are not true people. They only exist in stories. And their sole purpose is to teach people morals. That's why they are paragons. The real Richard doesn't matter because he never had anything to do with Robin Hood. Since robin hood is a fictional character and so is the King Richard in the story.BlueMagitek wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
Because a paragon is an ideal. Or rather stands for ideals. Bigger than life. They are 'unreal'. They are the heroes sung in stories when everyone knows that the real person probably was different. They are Robin Hood or King Arthur, or Hercules, or Siegfried. They have no flaws. They live and die like heroes.
Basically, if you want so, a renegade doesn't let morals ruin a good plan. A paragon won't give up his ideals for a good plan/tactic. Paragons can only succeed because they live in a fairytale world in which being a paragon will pay off in the end because there is a higher power protecting them.
Not sure what being scotsman has to do with it, because paragon is a mindset, not a race or nationality.
I realize I come into this late, but what?
Every single hero you listed has flaws. Especially Hercules. They didn't choose the "morally correct" option every single time, nor should they be expected to. Heck, the qualifications of a hero changes based on the time they're in. From your Robin Hood example, a lot of people see King Richard as a hero, but he was a warmonger who would sell London to finance his wars. And the flaws are a part of the story (especially for Siegfried & Hercules).
No true Scotsman is a fallacy. It's like a red herring; doesn't have to be about fish.
http://en.wikipedia....o_true_Scotsman
Guest_Luc0s_*
AlexXIV wrote...
You are so hung up with semantics that you fail to grasp what I am talking about. There are many facts that are actually opinons. Because it could only be a fact to you if you can be 100% sure, and when can you really?
; Whatever it is, it's not worth my time.
Saphra.squee365 wrote...
Who me? I'm quite serious actually.
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
AlexXIV wrote...
Saphra.squee365 wrote...
Who me? I'm quite serious actually.
Have you checked this fact of the allegdly spherical earth? Because I have my doubts. You probably just believe what someone wrote or said. Mind you, I also believe that it is round, and turns around the sun just like these people told me. And I believe the grass is green. Because it looks green to me. Even though I have no idea if anyone aside me sees the same green.Luc0s wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
You are so hung up with semantics that you fail to grasp what I am talking about. There are many facts that are actually opinons. Because it could only be a fact to you if you can be 100% sure, and when can you really?
*sigh*
You still don't understand what 'fact' really means, or you just refuse to understand it, or you're just trolling me.
Okay, one last attempt:
The earth is a globe, a sphere. That's a fact. It's scientifically proven.
However, I'm a flat-earther. I believe the earth is flat. I'm utterly convinced that the earth is flat. Does that change the facts?
No, it doesn't. The fact still is, that the earth is a sphere. Even though I'm totally and utterly convinced that the earth is flat and I shout "the earth is flat, it's a fact!" every single time, it doesn't change reality.
Reality is fact. Whatever is objectively true, is fact. Whatever is not objectively true, is not a fact, but a belief or an opinion.
Also, this entire "a fact to you" doesn't make any sense. What do you mean with "a fact to you"? What do you mean with "to you"?
No you were not.Saphra Deden wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
Saphra.squee365 wrote...
Who me? I'm quite serious actually.
I was being serious too.
Guest_Luc0s_*
AlexXIV wrote...
They are not true people. They only exist in stories. And their sole purpose is to teach people morals. That's why they are paragons. The real Richard doesn't matter because he never had anything to do with Robin Hood. Since robin hood is a fictional character and so is the King Richard in the story.
The question is whether people like/trust Cerberus or not. Not how the game ends.HBC Dresden wrote...
Did anyone here play the Renegade endings?
All of them has Shep ending his or her's relationship with Cerberus at the end in one way or another. This happens regardless of alignment; Paragon or Renegade just colors how you break off the relationship.
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
AlexXIV wrote...
No you were not.
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
HBC Dresden wrote...
Did anyone here play the Renegade endings?
All of them has Shep ending his or her's relationship with Cerberus at the end in one way or another. This happens regardless of alignment; Paragon or Renegade just colors how you break off the relationship.
In an evil society, the good fight is to fight the law.Luc0s wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
They are not true people. They only exist in stories. And their sole purpose is to teach people morals. That's why they are paragons. The real Richard doesn't matter because he never had anything to do with Robin Hood. Since robin hood is a fictional character and so is the King Richard in the story.
Robin Hood stole. Stealing is a sin according to most religions. Stealing is against the law and stealing is not a virtue.
I agree that Robin Hood would be a Paragon at heart, but you can't say his methods are Paragon. Stealing is not Paragon.
I think if we made you misarable there would be an easy solution.Saphra Deden wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
No you were not.
Oh really. Did you think I like you or something? Or most of you?
Or do you think that I actually think diversity (in society) is good? There's much evidence to show that it isn't.
Guest_Luc0s_*
AlexXIV wrote...
Have you checked this fact of the allegdly spherical earth? Because I have my doubts. You probably just believe what someone wrote or said. Mind you, I also believe that it is round, and turns around the sun just like these people told me. And I believe the grass is green. Because it looks green to me. Even though I have no idea if anyone aside me sees the same green.
Re-educate the people who cause the misery and if they still continue have them executed?AlexXIV wrote...
I think if we made you misarable there would be an easy solution.
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
AlexXIV wrote...
I think if we made you misarable there would be an easy solution.Saphra Deden wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
No you were not.
Oh really. Did you think I like you or something? Or most of you?
Or do you think that I actually think diversity (in society) is good? There's much evidence to show that it isn't.
Luc0s wrote...
The earth is a globe, a sphere. That's a fact. It's scientifically proven.
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
The question if the earth is round or not doesn't mean much in my life. So do many other facts. So what do facts help you in a world where opinions are stronger than facts?Luc0s wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
Have you checked this fact of the allegdly spherical earth? Because I have my doubts. You probably just believe what someone wrote or said. Mind you, I also believe that it is round, and turns around the sun just like these people told me. And I believe the grass is green. Because it looks green to me. Even though I have no idea if anyone aside me sees the same green.
I've seen pictures and movies from the planet earth from legit sources. I know for a fact that the planet earth is a sphere. It has nothing to do with belief. A belief is thinking something is true without evidence. But I have evidence.
Do you have evidence that your definition of "true Paragon" is accurate and correct? Does such evidence even exist?
No, because "true Paragon" in itself is a red herring. It's a fallacy. A 'no-true Scotsman' fallacy.
Anyway, this is getting off-topic.
When I think of Saphra "low self-esteem" is usually the first thing that pops into my mind.Saphra Deden wrote...
There is but I'm a glutton for pain as a result of my low self-esteem.
Guest_Luc0s_*
AlexXIV wrote...
In an evil society, the good fight is to fight the law.Luc0s wrote...
AlexXIV wrote...
They are not true people. They only exist in stories. And their sole purpose is to teach people morals. That's why they are paragons. The real Richard doesn't matter because he never had anything to do with Robin Hood. Since robin hood is a fictional character and so is the King Richard in the story.
Robin Hood stole. Stealing is a sin according to most religions. Stealing is against the law and stealing is not a virtue.
I agree that Robin Hood would be a Paragon at heart, but you can't say his methods are Paragon. Stealing is not Paragon.
Modifié par Luc0s, 10 janvier 2012 - 03:18 .
Saphra Deden wrote...
HBC Dresden wrote...
Did anyone here play the Renegade endings?
All of them has Shep ending his or her's relationship with Cerberus at the end in one way or another. This happens regardless of alignment; Paragon or Renegade just colors how you break off the relationship.
The Renegade ending has Shepard being stand-off-ish, but I wouldn't say he ends the relationship.
It's one of the more irksome parts of ME2, actually.
Even if Cerberus is gonna betray me let me at least THINK I'm on good terms with them.
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