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#226
android654

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Il Divo wrote...

android654 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

android654 wrote...

Well aren't many sitting nice and pretty on your own individual pedestals.

For those of you upset over MW3 and Battlefield 3's amount of cursing, if you've every met an American marine cursing (not cussing, don't know where some of you are from) is rather normal and even more so when you're in the actual middle of a war.

As far as ME3, I'm assuming the same as ME2. A few here and there to add emphasis on certain scenes to drive a point home. Personally since you'd be dealing with aliens of different stripes and from all walks of life it would make sense for some to curse quite liberally while some wouldn't at all as a means of embedding a sense of realism to the characters, but whatever.

I do admit its a bit funny to read some people here saying, "Well cursing is so juvenile, it lowers my opinion of anyone who uses it. Any mature adult would know how to deliver a point by adding prose to their language like we were accustomed to centuries ago. *scoff*"

It's a very childish outlook on the issue itself. Sometimes adding in a f**k drives a point home and sometimes it's not needed. An extreme in either direction is childish.


The extreme of not using profanity may be often unnoticed; sometimes depends on the writing or dialogue that is used in its place. And I am not certain, but I doubt the lack of swearing actually offends anyone....


It offends me because it shows a lack of care from the writers, and blatant ignorance of organic dialogue. People speak differently in different situations and vernacular changes in different time periods, and if "profanity" is used now, common sense would suggest it'll be around in the future as well. These words aren't new nor is their usage, time may have morphed them, but s**t is the same whether you call it that or offal.

If you think yourself erudite or sophisticated because you refrain from using it, then you're ridiculous. It makes you seem more detached from reality and people as a whole.

Adults curse, under duress, in the midst of laughter, in fear and in the grips of pleasure. This is an M rated game, if hearing "F**k you!" will diminish your enjoyment of the game then don't purchase it.


I'm also curious about the implications this kind of reasoning might have for any historical work of fiction that deals with racism or slavery. I would think in that kind of setting, as repugnant as certain words might be, we would want to push for historical accuracy.


Could you imagine watching Roots or Mississippi Burning and hear the racists or slave owners go, "Hey! you ner do well person of African descent, do what I tell you!" It doesn't help the work if the dialogue seems out of place. Actually few things can ruin a story like inaccurate dialogue can.

#227
What a Succulent Ass

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...I was going to mention Jack, but, hilariously, she's probably amongst the characters with more moderate swearing in ME3.

#228
Il Divo

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android654 wrote...

Could you imagine watching Roots or Mississippi Burning and hear the racists or slave owners go, "Hey! you ner do well person of African descent, do what I tell you!" It doesn't help the work if the dialogue seems out of place. Actually few things can ruin a story like inaccurate dialogue can.


Mississippi Burning was exactly what came to mind. The idea needs to come off as offensive because it's, well, offensive. Anything less doesn't capture the atmosphere. The language should serve the characters and setting, not the other way around.

Modifié par Il Divo, 11 janvier 2012 - 04:54 .


#229
Raygereio

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Il Divo wrote...
Haha, that definitely sounds like a worthy face palm moment. How did all of it end between the two?

Poorly. Thankfully it was just a one-shot game at a convention and not a regular gaming group. 

The most infuriating part about that was that everyone made characters together. The complainer knew about the slave-thing from the start. But decided to complain about it 2 hours in. Heck, scratch that: he decided to sign up for a game set in the colonial era when even the mearest metioning of slavery offends him.

#230
Il Divo

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Raygereio wrote...

Poorly. Thankfully it was just a one-shot game at a convention and not a regular gaming group. 

The most infuriating part about that was that everyone made characters together. The complainer knew about the slave-thing from the start. But decided to complain about it 2 hours in. Heck, scratch that: he decided to sign up for a game set in the colonial era when even the mearest metioning of slavery offends him.


It seems like no matter what we do we can't get away from the Paladin of Lawful Good scenario. Regardless of the setting, we'll always have someone to play the righteous character berating everyone for right and wrong. Image IPB

#231
someone else

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Elhanan wrote...

someone else wrote...

I really wonder what the OP's problem is. Is he just a prissy, prudish old crank, put off by "rude" slang, or something more deeply pathological - an Victorian aversion to overt sexual and bodily references (wonder what goes on in the closet)? Cultural snobbery? Fear of confrontational, verbally aggressive "bullies?" Or just another obergruppenfuhrer from the moral gestapo dedicated to washing all our potty-mouths with laundry soap? I get the uncomfortable feeling the OP is either a repressed, pinch-faced blue nose or a troll.

I could understand it if ME were as replete with gratuitous obscenities as it is will silicone implants, but its not. Its a war story. Jack is profane - but you won't hear a "damn" from Ashley - not in her character, and as I recall that's about as strong as Shepard's words ever get. Mass Effect isn't Shakespeare, isn't LoTR, but neither is it Tropic of Cancer or Lenny Bruce outtakes.

Get over it.


Psuedo-intellectuals, bullies, elitists, beauracratic mouthpieces, bigots, entitled gamers on forums, ....

Oh! On this topic; nevermind....

I 'll take A Lack of Courtesy & Decency for 100!


If you bothered making a rational case for your objection, it would be entitled to a modicum of respect - as it is, it amounts to no more than self-righteous carping without a point - you do not even claim a moral justification for your distaste - it just offends your sensibilities, evidently.  To that you are entitled, but being a matter of personal taste and opinion, it cannot stand as support for a serious critique that ME's use of profanity and slang is overdone, unnecessary or inappropriate.  Sorry, we're not hiring arbiters of cultural rectitude at the moment.

You may well mourn for a more genteel world, and - whatever you think of Shakespeare, Marlowe, and the rest of the Elizabethans - the golden age of English literature, but that world is gone for good.  We are fortunate at least a few remain who appreciate it.  But that in itself is besides the point.  There is plenty wrong with the ME fiction, despite its remarkable achievements - and the "misses" it makes with dialog are far more grevious that an occasional *expletive deleted*

...but I suppose you can't see it that way, you bosh'tet (WHOOPS, sorry for the profanity!)

Modifié par someone else, 11 janvier 2012 - 05:10 .


#232
Elhanan

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android654 wrote...

It offends me because it shows a lack of care from the writers, and blatant ignorance of organic dialogue. People speak differently in different situations and vernacular changes in different time periods, and if "profanity" is used now, common sense would suggest it'll be around in the future as well. These words aren't new nor is their usage, time may have morphed them, but s**t is the same whether you call it that or offal.

If you think yourself erudite or sophisticated because you refrain from using it, then you're ridiculous. It makes you seem more detached from reality and people as a whole.

Adults curse, under duress, in the midst of laughter, in fear and in the grips of pleasure. This is an M rated game, if hearing "F**k you!" will diminish your enjoyment of the game then don't purchase it.


I am not; hence the thread.

And if a lack of profanity bithers you, then perhaps that is not the real problem. And my guess based on the attempts to circumvent the filters here, utterances from the Player may suffice to fill the awkward gaps of clarity....

#233
Gabriel S.

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I wish they'd have taken off the kid gloves with swearing for ME3. I'm sick of hearing "stop jerking me around!" It actually sounds like an old dirty man's version of "don't F with me!" It still brings the same image(s) in mind, but one sounds ordinary and the other sounds as if you're trying to be more obscure but failing horribly.

Oh, Canada...

#234
What a Succulent Ass

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Shakespeare is amongst the last I would point to as a paragon of genteel authorship.

#235
Elhanan

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someone else wrote...

If you bothered making a rational case for your objection, it would be entitled to a modicum of respect - as it is, it amounts to no more than self-righteous carping without a point - you do not even claim a moral justification for your distaste - it just offends your sensibilities, evidently.  To that you are entitled, but being a matter of personal taste and opinion, it cannot stand as support for a serious critique that ME's use of profanity and slang is overdone, unnecessary or inappropriate.  Sorry, we're not hiring arbiters of cultural rectitude at the moment.

You may well mourn for a more genteel world, and - whatever you think of Shakespeare, Marlowe, and the rest of the Elizabethans - the golden age of English literature, but that world is gone for good.  We are fortunate at least a few remain who appreciate it.  But that in itself is besides the point.  There is plenty wrong with the ME fiction, despite its remarkable achievements - and the "misses" it makes with dialog are far more grevious that an occasional *expletive deleted*

...but I suppose you can't see it that way, you bosh'tet (WHOOPS, sorry for the profanity!)


It's OK; stopped reading these kind of posts long ago. But thanks for the thought!

#236
Hedera

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Dammit, why is this thread still going? Priestly answered the OP's question on the first page.

#237
Elhanan

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cgrimm54 wrote...

Dammit, why is this thread still going? Priestly answered the OP's question on the first page.


Some folks like to argue, some like to espouse over any issue, some wish to feel superior to others, some wish to appear more intellectual, etc.

Me? Beside being a member of the Bioware boards for 10+ years, I may only be a " prissy, prudish old crank", and Gregory House is my hero....

#238
Il Divo

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Elhanan wrote...

I am not; hence the thread.

And if a lack of profanity bithers you, then perhaps that is not the real problem. And my guess based on the attempts to circumvent the filters here, utterances from the Player may suffice to fill the awkward gaps of clarity....


And if a bit of profanity offends you, then perhaps that is the problem, ignoring the arbitrary decision to place certain words into the "offensive" category. People are able to recognize the difference between excessive profanity and out of character profanity. People are jumping all over you with profanity precisely because you are demonstrating an exceptionally delicate aversion to it, which demonstrates a disconnect with reality.  

Modifié par Il Divo, 11 janvier 2012 - 05:37 .


#239
Chuvvy

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Gabriel Stelinski wrote...

I wish they'd have taken off the kid gloves with swearing for ME3. I'm sick of hearing "stop jerking me around!" It actually sounds like an old dirty man's version of "don't F with me!" It still brings the same image(s) in mind, but one sounds ordinary and the other sounds as if you're trying to be more obscure but failing horribly.

Oh, Canada...


Punch em' in the face and they'll say sorry.

#240
AlanC9

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Elhanan wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

But that job you might get fired from would not be "soldier."


Mouthing off to a superior may or may not get you fire or discharged, but the time spent in the meantime may not be too pleasant. Personally, I am not into 20+ mile force marches on the weekends, KP, etc, but have at it if you wish.


Depends on how you're cursing, doesn't it?

"What the *****'s going on , sarge?" isn't likely to have any bad consequences unless the sergeant is a real ********. 

"******** you, lieutenant" probably would go over badly, though.

#241
someone else

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Elhanan wrote...
Me? Beside being a member of the Bioware boards for 10+ years, I may only be a " prissy, prudish old crank", and Gregory House is my hero...


...well at least we agree on something...toss up between him and Bryan Cranston (Breaking Bad) for archetype RenShep...(just wish the character-creator was capable...)

Modifié par someone else, 11 janvier 2012 - 05:44 .


#242
Il Divo

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AlanC9 wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

But that job you might get fired from would not be "soldier."


Mouthing off to a superior may or may not get you fire or discharged, but the time spent in the meantime may not be too pleasant. Personally, I am not into 20+ mile force marches on the weekends, KP, etc, but have at it if you wish.


Depends on how you're cursing, doesn't it?

"What the *****'s going on , sarge?" isn't likely to have any bad consequences unless the sergeant is a real ********. 

"******** you, lieutenant" probably would go over badly, though.


Another example: Guy next to you gets his brains blown out, Me: "Holy ****, dude!"

#243
Elhanan

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Il Divo wrote...

And if a bit of profanity offends you, then perhaps that is the problem, ignoring the arbitrary decision to place certain words into the "offensive" category. People are able to recognize the difference between excessive profanity and out of character profanity. People are jumping all over you with profanity precisely because you are demonstrating an exceptionally delicate aversion to it, which demonstrates a disconnect with reality.  


Seems to demonstrate a complete lack of manners to me, but I am biased....

#244
AlanC9

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Il Divo wrote...
And if a bit of profanity offends you, then perhaps that is the problem, ignoring the arbitrary decision to place certain words into the "offensive" category. People are able to recognize the difference between excessive profanity and out of character profanity. People are jumping all over you with profanity precisely because you are demonstrating an exceptionally delicate aversion to it, which demonstrates a disconnect with reality.  


Not necessarily a disconnect -- he could just not like reality much and therefore want to substitute a new one.

#245
AlanC9

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Elhanan wrote...

Seems to demonstrate a complete lack of manners to me, but I am biased....


Sure, it's a lack of manners. A certain kind of manners, practiced by a certain class of people. 

#246
Chuvvy

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Elhanan wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

And if a bit of profanity offends you, then perhaps that is the problem, ignoring the arbitrary decision to place certain words into the "offensive" category. People are able to recognize the difference between excessive profanity and out of character profanity. People are jumping all over you with profanity precisely because you are demonstrating an exceptionally delicate aversion to it, which demonstrates a disconnect with reality.  


Seems to demonstrate a complete lack of manners to me, but I am biased....


You would not want to hang around me, I drop the C-bomb. I hang out with too many Scots.

Modifié par Slidell505, 11 janvier 2012 - 05:51 .


#247
Il Divo

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Elhanan wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

And if a bit of profanity offends you, then perhaps that is the problem, ignoring the arbitrary decision to place certain words into the "offensive" category. People are able to recognize the difference between excessive profanity and out of character profanity. People are jumping all over you with profanity precisely because you are demonstrating an exceptionally delicate aversion to it, which demonstrates a disconnect with reality.  


Seems to demonstrate a complete lack of manners to me, but I am biased....


Good. Not everyone in society has manners, which was the error in judgment. It is not considered polite, for example, to run someone through with your sword, yet stories will show this as well. People will always find ways to offend each other, regardless of the word used. Language must suit the situation, not the other way around.

Modifié par Il Divo, 11 janvier 2012 - 05:53 .


#248
someone else

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OP - could you tell me if you are offended by profanity, obscenity or both? For example, which of these is inappropriate in your view?

1) "Holy F*ck!"
2) "Jesus H. Christ on a crutch"
3) "By the Beard of the Prophet"
4) "Goddamn it all to Hell"

- not a trick or trap question - want to know if you just don't like obscenity or are adverse to violating the Third Commandment.

#249
What a Succulent Ass

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You would not want to hang around me, I drop the C-bomb. I hang out with too many Scots.

Ha. I'm from Middlesbrough - this is how we greet each other in the morning.

#250
AlanC9

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Il Divo wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Il Divo wrote...

And if a bit of profanity offends you, then perhaps that is the problem, ignoring the arbitrary decision to place certain words into the "offensive" category. People are able to recognize the difference between excessive profanity and out of character profanity. People are jumping all over you with profanity precisely because you are demonstrating an exceptionally delicate aversion to it, which demonstrates a disconnect with reality.  


Seems to demonstrate a complete lack of manners to me, but I am biased....


Good. Not everyone in society has manners, which was the error in judgment. It is not considered polite, for example, to run someone through with your sword, yet stories will show this as well. People will always find ways to offend each other, regardless of the word used. Language must suit the situation, not the other way around.


I guess this is where I get confused. Is the position really that everyone in the ME universe should have "manners"?