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[Lazy Jer]

I was just doing my first Dragon Age:Origins playthrough as a mage and I managed to learn about the Fraternities of Enchanters, which - for those who don't know- are basically like political parties within the Circle of Magi who have different ideas on how the Circle should be run.

This immediately got me thinking about the attempts made at the end of Dragon Age 2 to start a rebellion among the other Circles.  It occurs to  me that this so-called rebellion may not get as far off the ground as one might think.

The Loyalists, for example, will be strongly against the idea of rebellion. 

The Libertarians may have a few hold-outs, but I see them as mostly being in favor of open rebellions. 

The Aequitarians, who are the moderates among them, and also the most populous, will probably be largely split about the idea of open rebellion: some stating the violence will undo any gains the magi have managed to make with the circle, partiuclarly in the Ferelden  chapter where the Circle may have gained some goodwill for helping against the Blight, others will, upon learning of Knight-Commander Meredeth's controversial actions in Kirkwall, will point out that as circle mages will never have adequate reprentation as long as there is no way to counter a similarly aggressive Knight-Commander.

The Isolationists (who advocate complete isloation) and the lucrosians (who advocate the circle first concern itself with what it profitable) will most likely have their own splits in opinions.

The problem is that the Templars have exactly two directives: control the Circle of Magi and bring non-circle mages under control.  These two directives do not lend themselves to much argument among the inner workings of the Order.  Thrask and Cullen may disagree on how to treat any apostate mages they manage to lock up in the Circle, but they both agree that they need to be locked up.  With less internal division they have a much greater chance of bringing any rebelling Circles under control by working from inside the Circle (through the loyalists) and from outside.

So anyway that's my opinion about the viability of a long term mages rebellion.  What do y'all think?

[Heimdall]

The only reason mages have a chance at unity is the Templars. A common enemy can create strong bonds in the face of extermination. That was pretty much what happened at the end of Asunder, the representatives from the fraternities, loyalist minority excluded, voted for fighting the Templars because there wasn't really any other choice left.

[Lazy Jer]

Lord Aesir wrote...

The only reason mages have a chance at unity is the Templars. A common enemy can create strong bonds in the face of extermination. That was pretty much what happened at the end of Asunder, the representatives from the fraternities, loyalist minority excluded, voted for fighting the Templars because there wasn't really any other choice left.

Hmmm...I'll have to read that book someday.

[Gervaise]

Actually it was a nearer run thing than that. All ther smaller fraternities voted with the Loyalists to stay with the Chantry, the Liberatarians' leader Adrian voted to fight and that left Rhys, newly adopted leader of the Aequitarians (having formerly been an ardant libertarian) with the casting vote since it was based on numbers within the fraternities and the Aequitarians is by far the largest group. Grand Enchanter Fiona had already made it clear that whatever the vote was it was all or nothing, we all surrender or we all fight (though I have serious doubts that Adrian would have conformed had it gone the other way). Fiona definitely looked deflated when the other fraternities voted against but Rhys saved the day or signed their death warrant (depending on which way you want to look at it) by voting to fight, which personally speaking as someone who is naturally inclined to be an Aequitarian, I would be rather annoyed about, since like it or not I have now been dragged into a war that could have been avoided had the Grand Enchanter been less confrontational and Adrian not framed Rhys.

Fiona did at least admit that the Divine had been on their side and helped them escape from the White Spire and that if they surrendered that she might be able to spare at least some from execution/tranquility. By contrast if they opted to fight, many but not all would die. Of course it is fairly obvious that if the former choice was made the one's who could not be saved would likely be Fiona, Adrian and Rhys, but all the less powerful mages would probably be okay, whereas by voting for the latter the leaders would save their own skins at the expense of all the less powerful mages who will just be cannon fodder to the templars.

I may sound somewhat cynical and I realise that warfare and killing is a staple of the fantasy RPG but in real terms I feel the Grand Enchanter was a bit too eager to stick two fingers up at the Lord Seeker back at the White Spire and the Divine for that matter ("F**k the Divine", Fiona's actual words), when there was a real opportunity for change without major bloodshed. Just as Anders was too eager to blow up the Grand Cleric knowing that the poor suckers in the Gallows were the ones who would suffer for it.
Obviously if DA3 starts with us hearing that Fiona, Adrian and Rhys have nobly sacrificed their lives for the cause, I will be proved wrong, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

[Morroian]

Lazy Jer wrote...

So anyway that's my opinion about the viability of a long term mages rebellion.  What do y'all think?

I think you should read Asunder.

[Lazy Jer]

Morroian wrote...

Lazy Jer wrote...

So anyway that's my opinion about the viability of a long term mages rebellion.  What do y'all think?

I think you should read Asunder.

I think you're right.  I also think I should avoid reading any more posts on this thread until I do.  Heh.

[Heimdall]

Gervaise wrote...

Actually it was a nearer run thing than that. All ther smaller fraternities voted with the Loyalists to stay with the Chantry, the Liberatarians' leader Adrian voted to fight and that left Rhys, newly adopted leader of the Aequitarians (having formerly been an ardant libertarian) with the casting vote since it was based on numbers within the fraternities and the Aequitarians is by far the largest group. Grand Enchanter Fiona had already made it clear that whatever the vote was it was all or nothing, we all surrender or we all fight (though I have serious doubts that Adrian would have conformed had it gone the other way). Fiona definitely looked deflated when the other fraternities voted against but Rhys saved the day or signed their death warrant (depending on which way you want to look at it) by voting to fight, which personally speaking as someone who is naturally inclined to be an Aequitarian, I would be rather annoyed about, since like it or not I have now been dragged into a war that could have been avoided had the Grand Enchanter been less confrontational and Adrian not framed Rhys.

Fiona did at least admit that the Divine had been on their side and helped them escape from the White Spire and that if they surrendered that she might be able to spare at least some from execution/tranquility. By contrast if they opted to fight, many but not all would die. Of course it is fairly obvious that if the former choice was made the one's who could not be saved would likely be Fiona, Adrian and Rhys, but all the less powerful mages would probably be okay, whereas by voting for the latter the leaders would save their own skins at the expense of all the less powerful mages who will just be cannon fodder to the templars.

I may sound somewhat cynical and I realise that warfare and killing is a staple of the fantasy RPG but in real terms I feel the Grand Enchanter was a bit too eager to stick two fingers up at the Lord Seeker back at the White Spire and the Divine for that matter ("F**k the Divine", Fiona's actual words), when there was a real opportunity for change without major bloodshed. Just as Anders was too eager to blow up the Grand Cleric knowing that the poor suckers in the Gallows were the ones who would suffer for it.
Obviously if DA3 starts with us hearing that Fiona, Adrian and Rhys have nobly sacrificed their lives for the cause, I will be proved wrong, but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

I think you're overly optimistic about the mages being spared.  Remember that at the time they knew the Lord Seeker was fairly set on a war of extermination.  Under the Lord Seeker's command, the vast majority of the rebellious mages would probably recieve tranquility or execution.  The reasoning for fighting is that at least these mages stand a chance rather than knowingly submitting to a horrid fate.

I agree that Fiona was too eager to seek the radical path, but after all this time it's a bit understandable if mages don't exactly have faith in the chantry changing things from the top down.

[ThePhoenixKing]

Perhaps this is a bit off-topic, but do they ever explain in the novel why Fiona is the Grand Enchanter and no longer with the Wardens?

[Heimdall]

It appears she left the wardens hoping to serve the mage cause not so long after The Calling. The specifics are unknown.

[Gervaise]

She left the Wardens with the specific attention of pursuing the agenda of breaking with the Chantry. She states as much "I came to the Circle from the Wardens because I saw something had to be done," but whether this was done with the approval of the Warden leadership or not is not clear. I have already questioned on the other Asunder thread how she managed to engineer her election to Grand Enchanter - I am inclined to think that perhaps it was one of those jobs that no one else really wanted as it was viewed as a cross between a poisoned chalice and a lame duck and since she probably seemed so eager to take it, they let her have it, not realising what trouble she would cause.

[Heimdall]

Gervaise wrote...

She left the Wardens with the specific attention of pursuing the agenda of breaking with the Chantry. She states as much "I came to the Circle from the Wardens because I saw something had to be done," but whether this was done with the approval of the Warden leadership or not is not clear. I have already questioned on the other Asunder thread how she managed to engineer her election to Grand Enchanter - I am inclined to think that perhaps it was one of those jobs that no one else really wanted as it was viewed as a cross between a poisoned chalice and a lame duck and since she probably seemed so eager to take it, they let her have it, not realising what trouble she would cause.

Whether or not she specifically desired to break with the chantry or came to that belief later on isn't known either.