294 réponses à ce sujet

[Morroian]

Nice article at Kotaku

http://kotaku.com/58...ge-ii--you-know 

And another nice article on the game linked to in the Kotaku article:

http://www.your-crit...ragedie-of.html 

[Teddie Sage]

Thanks for sharing.

[Deadmac]

"Dragon Age 2" reminded me of "Jade Empire". Instead of it carrying an Asian theme, the game was based upon a European setting. "Jade Empire" was a fantastic story, but the rpg elements were almost nonexistent. No gear. No clothing. No weaponry. It got boring fast.

[LinksOcarina]

If anything, this just cements my prediction for Dragon Age II, a reevaluation years down the road over its qualities.

[Masako52]

http://www.popmatter...r-quality-games

Pretty much sums up my feelings about DA2. At first, I was also disappointed, but realized I also couldn't put it down or get it out of my head. It's flawed, rushed, and disjointed, but also kind of brilliant in a lot of ways that you, well, rarely if ever see in other games.

[Uzzy]

Well, I suppose Dragon Age 2 certainly falls into the category of 'tragedy'. You can certainly compare it to great works like those of Sophocles, just in the same way as one might compare Twilight to a Jane Austin work, or Transformers to an Asimov novel.

The difference is, in all those cases, that the writing in one is rubbish, while the writing in others is exemplary.

[Icinix]

Good reads - but something I dislike is how people who do like the game, just claim people who don't like it were 'expecting' something else.

That to me is just a cheap dismissal.

Its like saying you go to a sporting event, your team loses, your sad - but its your own fault for expecting them to win.

I knew roughly the story, I knew roughly the changes, I knew roughly where they wanted to take the game - and I was excited about what it could be.

It didn't even come close to hitting its potential.

[Brockololly]

I don't begrudge people for liking any game. Its great that some people liked DA2.

But with most of those little pseudo-intellectual "analyses" Kotaku dredged up, maybe the theoretical idea of DA2 is intellectually stimulating, but the actual execution is nothing even close to "Sophocles." Give me a break. People talk about fans of Origins having rose colored glasses, but I want whatever Kool-Aid some of those DA2 lovers are drinking. It seems most of those articles acting like Da2 was some hidden gem are recalling some game that doesn't exist in actuality- again, they're praising the concept of what DA2 could have been but the execution is no where near close to what they're claiming.

I mean...really?

By stripping the game of much of its visual excess—characters stick to the same environments, don’t age despite the story taking the better part of a decade, always wear the same clothes—the player’s attention is steered to the characters themselves and all of their likes, dislikes, politics, morals, and humors.

Justifying the criminal reuse of the most bland and uninspired environments ever in a BioWare game and the handcuffing of the basic utilization of equipment and loot as some purposeful masterstroke of game design and storytelling? Sure, keep sipping that Kool-Aid...

Add to that the uncommon subtlety of gestures and interactions in dialogue scenes, and you have a game which sincerely rewards your attention to enhance the dynamism of otherwise understated scenes.

Yup, cause those animated and gripping characters really had me so emotionally engaged. I mean, look at how lifelike and emotive these faces are!



Those eyebrows melting and bending like pipecleaners really brings those characters to life!

Modifié par Brockololly, 12 janvier 2012 - 03:49 .

[CuriousArtemis]

That's interesting that the article mentioned the gestures, because the characters' facial expressions and reactions are one of the things I love about the game

One of my favorite scenes is when Hawke goes "Ew!" after Anders' describes the ingredients for his ... experiment lol

Fenris' expression is also amazing. His eyes roll a lot, but not in sarcasm; it's when he's feeling uncertain or vulnerable.

Isabela winking at Hawke as she's leaving Fenris' house.

And, of course, the amazing VA's only added to the greatness of these moments.

Modifié par motomotogirl, 12 janvier 2012 - 04:06 .

[Barbarossa2010]

Of course, not everyone hated Dragon Age 2. I'll just state the obvious here: not everyone loved it, or even liked it, either. In fact, the more many played it, the worse it got. If some folks want to entertain the idea that it's some sort of gem in the rough, because they happened to be entertained by it, and that a future verdict of philosophical retrospect will render a judgement that its actually a veritable masterpiece of game making, they are certainly entitled to think so.

I'll just say that many will see it for a horrendously degraded and stripped down, rubbish cash-in, attempting to live off the capital of its far superior predecessor, even 20 years from now, if they remember it at all. Not that I'm saying it was any of these things of course.

[Morroian]

Brockololly wrote...

I mean...really?

By stripping the game of much of its visual excess—characters stick to the same environments, don’t age despite the story taking the better part of a decade, always wear the same clothes—the player’s attention is steered to the characters themselves and all of their likes, dislikes, politics, morals, and humors.

Justifying the criminal reuse of the most bland and uninspired environments ever in a BioWare game and the handcuffing of the basic utilization of equipment and loot as some purposeful masterstroke of game design and storytelling? Sure, keep sipping that Kool-Aid...

 
That article has been discussed here before and while I think her sentiments are on the right track clearly she goes overboard with some of her assessments, ISTM that the majority of those who like DA2 acknowledge its flaws but find something to like about it despite those flaws, a fact brought up in the kotaku article.

 

Add to that the uncommon subtlety of gestures and interactions in dialogue scenes, and you have a game which sincerely rewards your attention to enhance the dynamism of otherwise understated scenes.

Yup, cause those animated and gripping characters really had me so emotionally engaged. I mean, look at how lifelike and emotive these faces are!

Those are extreme examples and hardly representative of the game.  

[Masako52]

^ Yeah, actually the character's facial expressions and gestures were overall really brilliant. Each of your companions had a unique way of responding, of even standing, and that really helped convince me of the depth of the DA2 characters. Brockololly, you can't actually be arguing that those screenshots are representative of the game at all. There's no game in existence that doesn't have a "lol shot". I'm not saying that it's not legitimate to dislike DA2, but frankly a lot of the criticism I see about the design on these forums tends to draw from the most extreme examples. The graphics are, imo, actually really good overall. Really beautiful and detailed. Obviously the game was rushed, though, no one is arguing against that.

[Zjarcal]

Brockololly wrote...
Those eyebrows melting and bending like pipecleaners really brings those characters to life!

Yeah, post derp shots and glitches to showcase DA2's facial animations. Try and be more objective man, that's borderline trolling (one could easily do the same for DAO).

[Mr.House]

Zjarcal wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
Those eyebrows melting and bending like pipecleaners really brings those characters to life!

Yeah, post derp shots and glitches to showcase DA2's facial animations. Try and be more objective man, that's borderline trolling (one could easily do the same for DAO).

There was alot of derp shots in DAO, more then DA2. DA2 did facial expressions and emotions so much better then DAO.

[TEWR]

I do find that image of Varnell to be hilarious though.

[bleetman]

Facial animations, y'say? I'll just drop this here, then.

(Hooray for the internet, where I can just plug other people's work and save myself the effort of making my own points.)

Modifié par bleetman, 12 janvier 2012 - 05:15 .

[Mr.House]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

I do find that image of Varnell to be hilarious though.

They are amusing, but Brock did not show them with that intention. He intended to show that DA2 sucks, which he does almost on a daily basis.  It's no diffrent then comparing DAO elves to teh DA2 ones and showing the good looking DAO elves then showing the ugly DA2 elves.

Modifié par Mr.House, 12 janvier 2012 - 05:19 .

[Melca36]

Morroian wrote...

Nice article at Kotaku

http://kotaku.com/58...ge-ii--you-know 

And another nice article on the game linked to in the Kotaku article:

http://www.your-crit...ragedie-of.html 

Interesting articles.

I certainly didn't hate the game but I do disagree with 2nd article that the city was full of life....




Having these silent 2D Characters does not equal a city full of life.

Hawke and the companions were great characters and thats what saved the game for me.  But I do hope they NEVER do the 3 ACT Narrative again.

[addiction21]

bleetman wrote...

Facial animations, y'say? I'll just drop this here, then.

(Hooray for the internet, where I can just plug other people's work and save myself the effort of making my own points.)

But triss does frontal so I guess that wins...

Brockololly wrote...
snip

Thats rock bottom. You need to take a vacation from these boards.

Modifié par addiction21, 12 janvier 2012 - 05:42 .

[Am1vf]

Thanks for sharing those articles.

I really think that Dragon Age 2 was a step in the right  direction for games, the problem is that bioware stumbled and broke their nose. Is what ussually happens when you are rushed. But I am afraid the backlash may be cause for loosing all the good things DA2 has to offer.

Also, if there is one thing that can't be said about it is that its was made as a...

Barbarossa2010 wrote...
rubbish cash-in, attempting to live off the capital of its far superior predecessor

despite its many flaws, is a very brave attempt at pushing the franchise
in a interesting direction. If they just wanted to "cash-in" it would
have been much easier to just copy-paste the story of a warden fighting
the darkspawn reuniting allies for an epic battle against a tainted
dragon and its ugly minions of evil, saving the world etc... wich is
what many DA2 haters actually ask for DA3.

[Zubie]

Am1_vf wrote...

wich is
what many DA2 haters actually ask for DA3.

Actually it isn't. At all. Pretty sure most people just want a good game.

[John Epler]

You know, I'm going to suggest that if you're not planning on arguing in good faith, that you should, perhaps, take a break from the forums.

There's nothing wrong with illustrating the problems you have with DA2. I've always argued that people should feel free to share their opinions, whether positive or negative, and that it's only through criticism that we're able to grow as developers and ensure that our future products are of a higher quality.

But 'good faith' is the key. Taking the worst examples (or, to be fair, the best examples) and saying 'this is truly representative of the quality of the game as a whole' is not good faith.

Modifié par JohnEpler, 12 janvier 2012 - 06:12 .

[Zjarcal]

addiction21 wrote...

Brockololly wrote...
snip

Thats rock bottom. You need to take a vacation from these boards.

Rock bottom indeed.

JohnEpler wrote...

You know, I'm going to suggest that if you're not planning on arguing in good faith, that you should, perhaps, take a break from the forums.

There's nothing wrong with illustrating the problems you have with DA2. I've always argued that people should feel free to share their opinions, whether positive or negative, and that it's only through criticism that we're able to grow as developers and ensure that our future products are of a higher quality.

But 'good faith' is the key. Taking the worst examples (or, to be fair, the best examples) and saying 'this is truly representative of the quality of the game as a whole' is not good faith.

A very good suggestion and well said.

[Gibb_Shepard]

I dislike it when people are so desperate to find good things about DA2 that they make vague connections of certain game aspects that were never intended by the devs.
Case in point is when the author mentions that his view of Carver was heavily influenced by his combat expertise, and how his character was ultimately determined by it. Just sounds like a load of bull, like he's pulling stuff out of his ass to make the characters sound far more profound than they actually are.

"By stripping the game of much of its visual excess—characters stick to the same environments, don’t age despite the story taking the better part of a decade, always wear the same clothes—the player’s attention is steered to the characters themselves and all of their likes, dislikes, politics, morals, and humors."

Exactly what i'm talking about! Picking out game flaws and somehow turning them into some vague pro. It is absolutely ridiculous.

Modifié par Gibb_Shepard, 12 janvier 2012 - 06:30 .