483 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

My question for discussion is this-

Should Bioware look at KoA(once its released) and take some inspiration from it for future DA games? What should they take from it?

Personally, I want DA games to be more realistic(WAY more realistic than KoA and NOT so over the top), but I do want the DA world to be a bit brighter and more vibrant, like KoA.

I feel that RPG's are filled with dark places, and while they do have bright places, there just aren't enough of them.

On my Xbox 360, I looked at the screenies of KoA and realized that the vibrance of color reminded me of Kameo.

DAO and DA2 especially, weren't particularly bright. While sticking to the DAO art style, I'd like to see more vibrance, similar to those aforementioned games.

When you're used to seeing dark and dreary, those lights and colors do wonders. I'd hope future DA games would see that and have colors that "pop" and draw your attention.

As for the kind of vibrance and bright colors I'm referring to, here are some examples-

Modifié par LPPrince, 13 janvier 2012 - 12:41 .

[Pzykozis]

Desaturation needs to go the way of the dodo. muted colours are fine but generally instead of just having lower levels of colour seems to me they'll just bounce the texture back to photoshop and desaturate.. though I can't talk I desaturate my textures a fair bit too.. but mm thats most cause i work really vibrant and have to adjust down. Anyway whilst setting and genre or subgenre directing style is a good thing, making environments dreary and dull by degrees of saturation is bad.unless you push light and dark as your main use of contrast in that case, and then use a blue filter and create bladerunner the fantasy game.. that could be good.

/ramble

[mfr001]

The more recent video clips on the KoA site have convinced me not to rush out to buy. The scenes are too stylised, with gross exaggeration in some parts, noticeably weapons and special effects so I would find it hard to get the same level of immersion as I did in DOA and even DA2. Skyrim has avoided this and some scenes, particularly in snow, add a lot to the game. On replaying DAO I have come to appreciate the mood effect of the muddy browns as you go around Ferelden even in the Brecilian forest. I have even come to like the "bleached wall" picture around Kirkwall, which did emphasise the status as a stranger in a new land, compared to Ferelden.

Also, stylish graphics are not enough to create a good RPG on their own. One of the real strengths of the DA teams is in designing interesting NPCs and the range of possible interactions with them. (Though I still wish they had built in the possibility to blooter Meredith on sight in DA2, as I went through a "hate at first sight" experience the first time I saw her.) I would not want to see this being sacrificed in an attempt to play "catch up" elsewhere.

[Dubya75]

Please NO!!!

[nightscrawl]

LPPrince wrote...

Personally, I want DA games to be more realistic(WAY more realistic than KoA and NOT so over the top), but I do want the DA world to be a bit brighter and more vibrant, like KoA.

It really depends on the way the devs want the overall atmosphere to help the story along. DAO was dark and gritty: like the darkspawn, the deep roads, and civil war. DA2 stepped back from that and had a cleaner look, represented by a city-state that was our home for seven years. While the bright forest in MotA was refreshing, it's not the look I want for the entire series.

Devs are in a bit of a Catch-22 when it comes to this though. The screens you posted are similar to the types of environments that are in World of Warcraft (albeit with fewer polygons): lots of color, glowing crystals, variegated plant life, etc. You know what the most common complaint about WoW's style is? That it's "too cartooney." There will always be people who want the opposite of what is presented, and the devs just have to run with their vision for a series or else there won't be a vision if they try to please too many people.

Modifié par nightscrawl, 13 janvier 2012 - 05:20 .

[andar91]

Part of what draws me to KoA is its visual style. Ironically enough, I just preordered it at Gamestop about an hour ago. I do enjoy the vibrancy of colors but I don't necessarily think it would suit DA's atmosphere, though in some ways it could. DA2 already used more color in its environments to great effect in some areas, though some were rather ugly (Lowtown and the Docks were visually gross to me, but maybe they were supposed to be). Amalur is a very high magic setting, though, with things like glowing crystals everywhere and stuff almost akin to a final fantasy game. And while I love that, Dragon Age has always had a much more realistic tone to it in my opinion. That aside, more color used well and in the appropriate places is always welcome.

[Maria Caliban]

It reminds me of World of Warcraft meets Fable.

If the developers still consider Dragon Age a dark fantasy game, I'd like some more moody, dark fantasy artwork.

I admit it though, part of me just wants Silent Hill: Thedas Edition.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I very much want to see Dragon Age use a realist art-style.

[LPPrince]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I very much want to see Dragon Age use a realist art-style.

As well as I. Or at least go back to the DAO style.

I just want brighter colors in some areas to offset the darkness of a lot of the game.

Probably why I liked the Brecilian Forest a lot more in DAO than say The Deep Roads.

[LPPrince]

andar91 wrote...

Part of what draws me to KoA is its visual style. Ironically enough, I just preordered it at Gamestop about an hour ago. I do enjoy the vibrancy of colors but I don't necessarily think it would suit DA's atmosphere, though in some ways it could. DA2 already used more color in its environments to great effect in some areas, though some were rather ugly (Lowtown and the Docks were visually gross to me, but maybe they were supposed to be). Amalur is a very high magic setting, though, with things like glowing crystals everywhere and stuff almost akin to a final fantasy game. And while I love that, Dragon Age has always had a much more realistic tone to it in my opinion. That aside, more color used well and in the appropriate places is always welcome.

Funnily enough, there was a cave in Skyrim that had these really beautiful blue light thingies all over the place and the FIRST thing that came to mind was, "Hey, is this Dragon Age Origins cause I swear thats lyrium".

See the second image? All they've got to say is that blue stuff is lyrium. Done. Fits the DA world.

Course, the art style would have to be modified to be more realistic, but you know.

[Kail Ashton]

LPPrince wrote...

Personally, I want DA games to be more realistic(WAY more realistic than KoA and NOT so over the top), but I do want the DA world to be a bit brighter and more vibrant, like KoA.

lol so....DA should look exactly the same then? well thanks for that pointless topic!

On a not relevant but vastly less pointless note: rather looking foward to KoA, not a huge fan of skyrim's -poke things more times then they poke you" combat, i've seen fat ren-fest rejects who could fight better then the combat in skyrim, so nice to have a game pretty much like skyrim (without the bad art style) but with some pretty good tri-ace esc combat

[andar91]

LPPrince wrote...

andar91 wrote...

Part of what draws me to KoA is its visual style. Ironically enough, I just preordered it at Gamestop about an hour ago. I do enjoy the vibrancy of colors but I don't necessarily think it would suit DA's atmosphere, though in some ways it could. DA2 already used more color in its environments to great effect in some areas, though some were rather ugly (Lowtown and the Docks were visually gross to me, but maybe they were supposed to be). Amalur is a very high magic setting, though, with things like glowing crystals everywhere and stuff almost akin to a final fantasy game. And while I love that, Dragon Age has always had a much more realistic tone to it in my opinion. That aside, more color used well and in the appropriate places is always welcome.

Funnily enough, there was a cave in Skyrim that had these really beautiful blue light thingies all over the place and the FIRST thing that came to mind was, "Hey, is this Dragon Age Origins cause I swear thats lyrium".

See the second image? All they've got to say is that blue stuff is lyrium. Done. Fits the DA world.

Course, the art style would have to be modified to be more realistic, but you know.

Yeah, but I'm pretty sure lyrium doesn't grow just anywhere. If it was a specific area, that would be one thing, but in general, iI seriously doubt huge chunks of raw lyrium are just everywhere in such proliferance. That aside, I see your point. And I agree on the point you made with color usage.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I really like the muted browns and greens we saw in DAO.  That's a good colour palette.  I found DA2 far too bright and happy and artificial.

LPPrince wrote...

Funnily enough, there was a cave in Skyrim that had these really beautiful blue light thingies all over the place

Shimmermist Cave, if I'm not mistaken.

[LPPrince]

Kail Ashton wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

Personally, I want DA games to be more realistic(WAY more realistic than KoA and NOT so over the top), but I do want the DA world to be a bit brighter and more vibrant, like KoA.

lol so....DA should look exactly the same then? well thanks for that pointless topic!

On a not relevant but vastly less pointless note: 

....what.

[Helena Tylena]

Personally, I think the Dragon Age setting; particularly Ferelden; is one of the few game settings that actually benefits from a 'dark and gritty' art style. Especially since Ferelden is based on medieval England, and medieval England was pretty much made out of mud.

[AtreiyaN7]

I'd like to see a happy medium - I'm sure there's a balance between having the game look muddy and going over the top with the colors. Skyrim had fairly realistic colors for the most part and looked nice without resorting to a wacky color palette. I like how KoA looks, though.

[LPPrince]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I really like the muted browns and greens we saw in DAO.  That's a good colour palette.  I found DA2 far too bright and happy and artificial.

LPPrince wrote...

Funnily enough, there was a cave in Skyrim that had these really beautiful blue light thingies all over the place

Shimmermist Cave, if I'm not mistaken.

Oh, I liked DAO's color palette as well. Just think there needs to be a bit more, like Shimmermist Cave and the second image posted earlier. I don't want that kind of vibrance everywhere, but in a few places where when you get there, your jaw hits the floor.

[LPPrince]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

I'd like to see a happy medium - I'm sure there's a balance between having the game look muddy and going over the top with the colors. Skyrim had fairly realistic colors for the most part and looked nice without resorting to a wacky color palette. I like how KoA looks, though.

I agree. Skyrim had a wonderful color palette. Had its muted colors and its vibrance, it had the happy balance I desire.

I never felt like the game was too dark or too bright because there was always a counter point to either side.

That's what I'm asking for. A little more balance between colors, light, and darkness. Vibrancy of colors being a good way to achieve that and drawing the player's attention.

[Pzykozis]

Helena Tylena wrote...

Personally, I think the Dragon Age setting; particularly Ferelden; is one of the few game settings that actually benefits from a 'dark and gritty' art style. Especially since Ferelden is based on medieval England, and medieval England was pretty much made out of mud.

Was? I guess you've not been here. Or to Glastonbury.

Personally I severely disliked DA:O's overreliance on brown palette and yellowish lighting, and found DA2's art mostly boring and bland, lacking in scale and what are known as hero props,(aka focal points essentially), the Windmill in Lothering is one that I can remember fairly well.

For me Desaturation should be avoided unless you're going for a very dark art style in which case immense amounts of time and effort should be put into proper contrast through light and shadow, aswell as supporting atmospherics like mist and fog.

DA so far hasn't really seemed to want to go that way, so I would hope it'd go for a more balanced approach, to a certain extent DA2 is about right saturation/vibrancy wise though it's palette is fairly minimal (which I guess is to be expected of a medieval society). Though if we lose the overly spartan environments and get something with a bit more finesse and intricacy i'd be fairly happy. Not sure how much more can be pulled from the current engine though, but I have to say friends of mine who aren't particularly massive RPG fans always criticize the visuals (then again we're all artists so that tends to happen) of the DA series in particular.

[LPPrince]

Pzykozis wrote...

Was? I guess you've not been here. Or to Glastonbury.

Personally I severely disliked DA:O's overreliance on brown palette and yellowish lighting, and found DA2's art mostly boring and bland, lacking in scale and what are known as hero props,(aka focal points essentially), the Windmill in Lothering is one that I can remember fairly well.

For me Desaturation should be avoided unless you're going for a very dark art style in which case immense amounts of time and effort should be put into proper contrast through light and shadow, aswell as supporting atmospherics like mist and fog.

DA so far hasn't really seemed to want to go that way, so I would hope it'd go for a more balanced approach, to a certain extent DA2 is about right saturation/vibrancy wise though it's palette is fairly minimal (which I guess is to be expected of a medieval society). Though if we lose the overly spartan environments and get something with a bit more finesse and intricacy i'd be fairly happy. Not sure how much more can be pulled from the current engine though, but I have to say friends of mine who aren't particularly massive RPG fans always criticize the visuals (then again we're all artists so that tends to happen) of the DA series in particular.

Do your friends know of Kingdoms of Amalur? What do they think of its art style? Of course we can only judge from screenshots and videos at this point, but we can get a well enough idea for now.

[YohkoOhno]

To be fair, I think what DA2 was trying to accomplish was to make a more stylized art style in the style similar to KoAR. They didn't succeed but I have a feeling Bioware wanted all the things that KoAR looks like they're doing a lot better than what was accomplished in DA2.

I don't think Bioware ever intended the Dragon Age setting to be totally gritty. I think they chose Ferelden to be the "Game of Thrones" country and then the others would have a different style. The big problem for them is they overhyped the "dark fantasy" line, and they definitely took inspiration from Game of Thrones and other settings--along with the style of fantasy started with the Peter Jackson adaptation of LoTR.

However, somewhere along the line, somebody changed their minds on how to portray things. The problem with that is they couldn't change the product in mid-development so they tried to change the style in the next game. This lead to a disconnect where the fanbase expected more of the same and they got something different. KoAR looks like it will be an RPG with real-time reactive elements, while DA2 ended up taking the turn based system and "speeding up the animations", which leads to something that satisfies neither.

Nevertheless, I suspect DA3 will be more like KoAR and less like DA:O, simply because they want to adapt that style.  Maybe it's easier to develop with more a more abstract cartoon/anime style, maybe it ties into the direction they want to go, etc.  

Modifié par YohkoOhno, 13 janvier 2012 - 09:42 .

[LPPrince]

Yeah, I feel like what KoA is doing is what DA2 failed to do.

In one way, at least. There's so many differences that its hard to compare.

[Morroian]

YohkoOhno wrote...

However, somewhere along the line, somebody changed their minds on how to portray things. The problem with that is they couldn't change the product in mid-development so they tried to change the style in the next game. This lead to a disconnect where the fanbase expected more of the same and they got something different. KoAR looks like it will be an RPG with real-time reactive elements, while DA2 ended up taking the turn based system and "speeding up the animations", which leads to something that satisfies neither.

I don't think thats necessarily true, IMHO the chief problem with the tactical side of DA2 is the repetitive encounter design as is demonstrated by the improvements in the DLC.

LPPrince wrote...

Yeah, I feel like what KoA is doing is what DA2 failed to do.

In one way, at least.

In what way? Action rpg? KOA is single player, the DA series even DA2 is party based tactical combat. Anyone wanting single player type action combat moves in DA is bound for disappointment because it just wouldn't work. The cross class combo system is a way of bringing combo moves to a party based game.

Modifié par Morroian, 13 janvier 2012 - 09:53 .