483 réponses à ce sujet

[LPPrince]

One thing I should've mentioned earlier-

I hate hate hate hate HAAAATE how elves look in DA2. DAO was fine with elves, but I feel DA2 really regressed.

I'd rather my elves look like this-

Griffin, my character in the KoA demo and eventual full release-


than have elves look like Merrill and the rest of them in DA2.

[Das Tentakel]

 Apropos the whole redesign thing, I really recommend the podcast with the interview with DA2's art director.

Of course, you could argue to what degree he was making 'marketing talk', but if I understand what he said correctly, plus what I now know of DA2, they intended two things with the Elf redesign.
First, produce a more 'unique' (or 'iconic' look) that would give DA's Elves their own visual character. Not just as an aim by itself, but also - and that comes forward several times in the interview - from a marketing perspective. The more DA has a unique look, the easier it will be to distinguish it from other games and the easier to sell it.

The other thing was that he was talking about phenotypes and sexual attractiveness. I got the impression that what he meant was that one consideration about the redesign - and that involves the Isabella character as well - was to appeal to different sexual preferences among the players (which, of course, is also a marketing thing).
So, Isabella ends up as exaggeratedly buxom, and Merrill as exaggeratedly slender and thin (and they changed the entire Elven race too, while they were at it). Personalities too, of course (brazen and self-confident versus shy and insecure). Between these two extremes, they may have thought they would stimulate the hormonal glands of a majority of the players (with Anders and Fenris doing this for those with a preference for males).

Very deliberate, that. Also transparently over-designed, a lot of people immediately recognised the sexual pandering behind, for instance, the Isabella and Fenris characters. DA2 is not a subtle game in that respect, but then again, DA:O's Morrigan's looks weren't subtle either. 

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 19 janvier 2012 - 07:25 .

[staindgrey]

LPPrince wrote...

One thing I should've mentioned earlier-

I hate hate hate hate HAAAATE how elves look in DA2. DAO was fine with elves, but I feel DA2 really regressed.

This is where we disagree. I loved the DAII elf redesign. It gave them more flavor, more originality. DA:O elves were just slightly shorter people with longer ears. Very... bland.

FoA's elves... Well, they're better than DA:O's, at least.

[LPPrince]

The DA2 elves in my point of view look like they all suffer from anorexia as well as some condition which makes them all incredibly ugly.

Case in point, look at the difference between Zevran in DAO and DA2.

*barf*

Give me good looking elves and I give you MONEY.

[Das Tentakel]

staindgrey wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

One thing I should've mentioned earlier-

I hate hate hate hate HAAAATE how elves look in DA2. DAO was fine with elves, but I feel DA2 really regressed.

This is where we disagree. I loved the DAII elf redesign. It gave them more flavor, more originality. DA:O elves were just slightly shorter people with longer ears. Very... bland.

FoA's elves... Well, they're better than DA:O's, at least.

In terms of body type, I think the Elves of DA2 are an improvement, but I'm still not happy with them.
Didn't like some of the ears, for instance. And they STILL look very generic.
It is very difficult to distinguish Elves from Humans physically anyway, apart from relatively minor things like a certain slenderness (though I did feel that Merrill was a bit too anorexic) and pointy ears. Differences ought te be mainly psychological/cultural, and none of the DA games really succeed in getting this across.

@Weltenschlange:

Weltenschlange wrote...

Ah, I see. But there were still some colors which could only be achieved with expensive dyes, right?

Yes. Onions are cheap (you can use onion skins to make an orange-yellow colour), but other dyes, for instance of animal origin (purple from the murex snail is a famous example) would be very expensive.
However, textiles had a 'life cycle', with the better and more expensive clothes 'moving down' the social scale.
So, for instance, the elaborate woven decorations of an upper-class tunic in the 4th century Roman Empire might end up in a middle- or lower-class household, being cut out and added to a cheaper, yellow-orange tunic (that may have smelled of onions a bit?  )

Modifié par Das Tentakel, 19 janvier 2012 - 09:01 .

[LPPrince]

Yeah, let the differences between humans and elves be slight.

Height difference, sure. SLIGHTLY slimmer elves, sure. Pointed ears, sure.

But let the clothes they wear, the jewelry, the tattoos, the way they move, the way they talk, the way they EXIST, let THAT make the difference.

Make us know from afar that an elf is an elf not because they're incredibly hideous but because their essence is unmistakable.

[TEWR]

Regarding the DAII Elven appearance, I happen to like the new look.

Differences ought te be mainly psychological/cultural, and none of the DA games really succeed in getting this across.

I argued something similar about a week or two ago on some other thread because the Dalish don't seem all that culturally unique to me.

The elements are certainly there for them to be unique, but I don't feel that Bioware has really worked on it enough to make it apparent.

[LPPrince]

I felt the DAO elves were more unique than the DA2 ones. At least, unique in a good way.

I felt the difference between Dalish and City. In DA2 I didn't feel a difference between them whatsoever.

[TEWR]

In DAO I wasn't even able to get that vibe. Elves never felt like they were Elves to me. They didn't look the part to me.

Oy... it's difficult to get into why I felt that way now. It's almost 4 a.m here so I'm going to go off to bed.

Really brief summary of what I mean: While the Elves in DAO and DAII were reputed to use things from their environment for weapons/armor/everyday use, the player doesn't actually get to see this. Armor that supposedly bore designs cannot be seen, and is instead just a copypasta of other armor sets.

The codexes say I am an elf. But I don't feel like an elf. It's an instance of my immersion being broken I guess. I tried to feel like an elf in this game, but I don't actually get that vibe.

I'm gonna get some sleep and then I should be able to explain how I feel in proper form.

[LPPrince]

I can look forward to that.

Looks like I'm not sleeping tonight. Ergh.

Also, seems there's no sleep system in KoA.

At least Griffin will sympathize with me.

[Xewaka]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
Dark Souls does a nice non-realistic style.

Oh hello. That is rather sexy.

Warhammer 40K? Is that you?
Ah, no. Not enough skulls.

[LPPrince]

Did you not notice she specifically stated that Dark Souls does a nice non-realistic style?

*tilts head*

[Gotholhorakh]

LPPrince wrote...

One thing I should've mentioned earlier-

I hate hate hate hate HAAAATE how elves look in DA2. DAO was fine with elves, but I feel DA2 really regressed.

I'd rather my elves look like this-

Griffin, my character in the KoA demo and eventual full release-


than have elves look like Merrill and the rest of them in DA2.

Still got cartoon ears, like Yoda, or a Gremlin. For me that's no fun.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 19 janvier 2012 - 10:24 .

[elfdwarf]

really you think my avatar is more unique then fenris ,merril ,tallis and orsino
i alway like orsino

[LPPrince]

Tallis is an exception- she was modeled after Felicia Day.

Speaking of which, Felicia Day is a rather attractive woman.

Tallis did NOT capture that in game.

I hope they never do that again.

[LPPrince]

I think people have different opinions on what things to take from real life.

I mean, you can only put so much realism into a game before it stops being fun.

[Xewaka]

LPPrince wrote...
Did you not notice she specifically stated that Dark Souls does a nice non-realistic style?
*tilts head*

Don't get me wrong. I happen to enjoy Warhammer 40k aesthetic in all its grimdark gothic glory.
.

[LPPrince]

Xewaka wrote...

LPPrince wrote...
Did you not notice she specifically stated that Dark Souls does a nice non-realistic style?
*tilts head*

Don't get me wrong. I happen to enjoy Warhammer 40k aesthetic in all its grimdark gothic glory.
.

Here I thought you didn't notice. Rofl

[AlexXIV]

After having played the demo now I think KoA pretty much reminds me of Witcher2. I have not played far enough to find out if they deliver what they promise. Bioware should probably look at it for gameplay and combat. By far not perfect but I love reacitive combat in which you can actually dodge or block your enemy. Not to mention you are actually able to play a stealth class properly.
 
Honestly the dialogues and cutscenes cannot hold a candle to Bioware and neither can for example the facial graphics. There is absolutely no emotion in the faces of the NPCs in KoA. In many ways it feels like an old game in a new skin, even if it isn't. I have not seen party combat either, but I guess it will be like witcher. You're mostly on your own and if you get a companion he/she will be immortal and not doing much dmg.

Also I kind of hate if the story is revealed right at start. After playing the demo I already know what the game is all about. Actually after watching the trailers I knew. 'Reborn hero searching for his killer'. So who cannot see how this is going to work? A shame really that games just don't get started slowly anymore and throw the main plot right at the player from start. I really think KoA should look more at DA than the other way round. Even though both have room to improve. Idk either it is really hard to make RPGs nowadays or the best devs work in other genres. I cannot really see alot of progress other than graphics in the latest bunch of games.

[LPPrince]

I don't know if its hunting for your killer so much as its eventually having to put a stop to the war that's raging between the mortal races and the Tuatha.

[AlexXIV]

LPPrince wrote...

I don't know if its hunting for your killer so much as its eventually having to put a stop to the war that's raging between the mortal races and the Tuatha.

Both. Hunting your killer and by that stop the war. You even have 2 kinds of elves from start. So you know who the 'bad' ones are and who the 'good' ones. I like the idea of the protagonist being sort of 'special'. Like the key to destiny or whatever. But I don't know why it has to be thrown at you from start. It would be much better to discover in mid or end game. But no, obviously getting people to play the game is more imporant than a good evolving story. So they market the 'cool' stuff beforehand, eliminating any chance for twists or suprises. I know I am ranting but the label 'RPG' does not seem to have much worth nowadays if we consider how RPGs are marketed now. They rather spoil the story than appear 'boring'.

Mind you I could be wrong and the story will develop in an entirely suprising way full of twists. But tbh I rather think it will be the good ol 'hit the big bad hard' storyline. The demo is too short to get a feel if you can actually change things either or if it is just a marketing line again and in truth ''changing the world' is pretty much a streamlined path you have to go.

[LPPrince]

Well, the story isn't the selling point of KoA. Hell, even the environment isn't. It seems the selling point for KoA is its combat and its destiny system.

Also, as far as elves go, Light Elves and Dark Elves are not necessarily "Good" and "Evil".

Light Elf- Regal. Steadfast. Uncompromising. A proud and insular people, the Ljosalfar strive to preserve nature and shape it to their will. The light elves resist change, flash-freezing their ancient homeland to keep it in an idealized, timeless state. The Ljosalfar revere the principle of Justice, fighting time and again to defend Amalur against chaos and darkness. The light elves stand with their Dokkalfar cousins to battle the relentless armies of the Tuatha. Though far from their frozen homeland, the Ljosalfar are determined to keep the fortress of Mel Senshir from falling into the hands of their enemy.

Dark Elf- Charismatic. Intelligent. Seductive. The Dokkalfar are respected as sophisticated students of magic and diplomacy, yet it is their alluring presence that makes them so compelling. The dark elves are the ultimate manipulators, controlling the actions of others from the shadows. While their reputation for subtlety is well earned, many find the Dokkalfar so charismatic and compelling that they willingly parlay with them--regardless of the consequences. Though the port city of Rathir stands as a testament to their thriving culture, the relentless war against the Tuatha has put a great strain upon the Dokkalfar. The dark elves fight alongside their fairer-skinned cousins, the Ljosalfar, in an attempt to push back the unyielding armies of the Fae.

To me it sounds like both of them are not necessarily "good". Yeah, the Light Elves are closer to that, but besides that description, all I've heard is that the Light and Dark Elves are on good terms with one another. They have their differences, but they put those aside and are still friendly.

That tells me that at least Dark Elves aren't necessarily "evil". They're dark, just like their namesake, not just in color but in demeanor and lifestyle.

The good guys wouldn't be friendly with the bad guys if they were bad. Their friendship existed even before the war, so I think its just lifestyles and upbringing that really differentiates the "Light" and "Dark" inside them.

Modifié par LPPrince, 19 janvier 2012 - 03:57 .

[AlexXIV]

Well obviously you fight the winter court from start while you can help out the summer court. Seems pretty clear frontiers for me. Also the quests I have done never showed as much as branching. Like you could for example betray the quest giver because you think he/she is wrong or whatever. Looks like pretty clear fetch quests to me or at least quests you can accept or decline but are pretty linear themselves. I don't understand why the devs cannot put more thought to quests and make them multi layered.

[Pzykozis]

Unless they do a massive disservice to folklore the summer court shouldn't be "good" they're less sociopathic than the winter court who symbolise death and cold and the like, but they still stole human children and replaced others with changelings. The Fae are not nice folks regardless (they're not elves they're fairies back when fairies would tear your throat out and dance in your blood).

One of the few things I actually enjoyed about Amalur in that respect, this is when elves in england were essentially invisible spirits that would cause shooting pains by well shooting you with their invisible arrows or stabbing you with daggers (infact the terms shooting and stabbing pain are supposedly originated from these) and the fae ran around tricking people and stealing children. If only someone would do that justice, always hope from something like Witcher I guess, the fae folk are interesting.

Modifié par Pzykozis, 19 janvier 2012 - 04:06 .