483 réponses à ce sujet

[Atakuma]

I've played the game for a few hours now and it's decent enough, but it's also very derivative and lacks polish.

[Maria Caliban]

RazorrX wrote...

you know, why would an apostate not learn to be a rogue or a fighter? it is not like you can cast magic all the time and still avoid the templars. HOWEVER if you could fight, etc. you could hide your magic for when you really need it.

Even if they never cast a spell, an apostate has to spend a great deal of time learning to control themselves, not to mention resisting demonic possession. David gave the example of young mages accidentally burning down their villages because they got angry.

Bethany goes into this a bit when she talks about feeling like a weapon that's always drawn, but it seems to be something that get less headspace than being possessed by a demon and going on a rampage.

[pianomaestra]

I really like the soundtrack (though I've only played the demo, so I haven't heard the game's full range, but whatever). Fighting the troll was especially fun with that track playing in the background. Also, rolling! I hope I'm not the only one who did that over and over just for the heck of it.

I'd get it, but have to save moolah at the moment

[bEVEsthda]

LPPrince wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I very much want to see Dragon Age use a realist art-style.

As well as I. Or at least go back to the DAO style.

I just want brighter colors in some areas to offset the darkness of a lot of the game.

Probably why I liked the Brecilian Forest a lot more in DAO than say The Deep Roads.

Going back to the OP question, I chose to start with the above quote, while the intent is answering the original questions.

To me, the 'direction' that both DA2 and KoA seem to be headed in is 180 degrees off from where I want RPGs to go.
They place a lot of emphasis on combat, as if that is almost all the game is about. That doesn't mean that I think what Bioware tried to accomplish with combat in DA2 is necessarily a bad idea. It's just that it was so ZippZapp-Kaboom over the top that it was repulsive to me.

About the colours. I feel overly bright, clashy colours make games ugly. It's too much. I prefer realism. Designs that are either organic or functional, or both.

But just like the OP I also want beautyful places, even cheerful places, to balance the dark places. And even by their contrast make the dark places even more dark and gruesome. A fantasy-RPG should be a little pain as well. (I've never understood those who complain about the Fade or Deep Roads in DA:O). But there should also be better places to heal in and draw strength from. There were two things in the old original Dungeon Siege that made that game for me. The sense of journeying. And the feeling, when you had climbed all the long way out from a deep dungeon and emerged in the sun again.

But the garish candy colours,.. - please don't. To me it's outright ugly.

[NedPepper]

KOA is being praised by fans for the same aspects that they buried DA:2. Hack/Slash combat. I have nothing against the KOA, but....I just find it strange that it's being fawned over and already getting GOTY talk for basically being a kind of old school mishmash of Fable and Skyrim and the main thing they are focusing on is BUTTON MASHING AWESOME COMBAT. This just illustrates, to me, that no one really knows what the hell they want out of CRPG. I'm quite....baffled to say the least. And makes me appreciate DA 2 all the more. At least they TRIED to do something different. I dunno...I just don't get the love. I don't get the Skyrim love either, though. Skyrim is really beautifully designed...but completely hollow. Maybe I'm not exactly the target audience. I thought I was. But what I love in an RPG is not what is represented in KOA or Skyrim. It's all very cliche and bland. I want story and character and emotion and choice, and while Dragon Age 2 didn't come through on this completely, it was still more in the direction I want to see them continue to go in.

If they really want to add in more "exploration", fine. But please don't turn Dragon Age into a soulless, nostalgia obsessed sandbox with a cliche plot and zero character.

[RazorrX]

Maria Caliban wrote...

RazorrX wrote...

you know, why would an apostate not learn to be a rogue or a fighter? it is not like you can cast magic all the time and still avoid the templars. HOWEVER if you could fight, etc. you could hide your magic for when you really need it.

Even if they never cast a spell, an apostate has to spend a great deal of time learning to control themselves, not to mention resisting demonic possession. David gave the example of young mages accidentally burning down their villages because they got angry.

Bethany goes into this a bit when she talks about feeling like a weapon that's always drawn, but it seems to be something that get less headspace than being possessed by a demon and going on a rampage.

Learning Martial skills is a lesson in discipline and focus, which would aid an apostate to control the emotions.   This would aid in both learning self control as well as giving much more survival skills to the mage.  Plus when Templars do the whole no magic thing, you could still fight.  Just a pure class system is always a tad off to me, it makes no real sense.

 I do not remember Bethany ever saying that.  I know she tells Avaline why she did not just go around killing people and avelene says that while she can sheath her sword Bethany cannot put away her magic.

[Ivers0803]

Some Apostates do learn martial talents such as Malcolm Hawke, who was a mercenary for a time and was only later discovered when he was forced to use magic, but when it comes down to it most apostates would try not to get noticed at all, and never use any of those talents. Mages are also capable of fighting with their staff which can also act as a conduit for magic making it a better choice for mages.

[Ponendus]

I don't usually like open world rpg's, particularly if it is not party-based combat... however, I like this game much more than I thought I would.

Problem is I can't figure out why yet. :S

[Teddie Sage]

Freedom feeling, maybe? It lacks companions, though. The summon thingie you get is fun, but not enough for me. xP

[Heartrot]

I'm glad to hear I'm not missing out on anything by passing on this RPG. I was pretty excited about it until I played the demo. Think I'll stick with Skyrim.

[Huntress]

nedpepper wrote...

KOA is being praised by fans for the same aspects that they buried DA:2. Hack/Slash combat. I have nothing against the KOA, but....I just find it strange that it's being fawned over and already getting GOTY talk for basically being a kind of old school mishmash of Fable and Skyrim and the main thing they are focusing on is BUTTON MASHING AWESOME COMBAT. This just illustrates, to me, that no one really knows what the hell they want out of CRPG. I'm quite....baffled to say the least. And makes me appreciate DA 2 all the more. At least they TRIED to do something different. I dunno...I just don't get the love. I don't get the Skyrim love either, though. Skyrim is really beautifully designed...but completely hollow. Maybe I'm not exactly the target audience. I thought I was. But what I love in an RPG is not what is represented in KOA or Skyrim. It's all very cliche and bland. I want story and character and emotion and choice, and while Dragon Age 2 didn't come through on this completely, it was still more in the direction I want to see them continue to go in.

If they really want to add in more "exploration", fine. But please don't turn Dragon Age into a soulless, nostalgia obsessed sandbox with a cliche plot and zero character.

I know! isn't wonderful?

[Ponendus]

Huntress wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

KOA is being praised by fans for the same aspects that they buried DA:2. Hack/Slash combat. I have nothing against the KOA, but....I just find it strange that it's being fawned over and already getting GOTY talk for basically being a kind of old school mishmash of Fable and Skyrim and the main thing they are focusing on is BUTTON MASHING AWESOME COMBAT. This just illustrates, to me, that no one really knows what the hell they want out of CRPG. I'm quite....baffled to say the least. And makes me appreciate DA 2 all the more. At least they TRIED to do something different. I dunno...I just don't get the love. I don't get the Skyrim love either, though. Skyrim is really beautifully designed...but completely hollow. Maybe I'm not exactly the target audience. I thought I was. But what I love in an RPG is not what is represented in KOA or Skyrim. It's all very cliche and bland. I want story and character and emotion and choice, and while Dragon Age 2 didn't come through on this completely, it was still more in the direction I want to see them continue to go in.

If they really want to add in more "exploration", fine. But please don't turn Dragon Age into a soulless, nostalgia obsessed sandbox with a cliche plot and zero character.

I know! isn't wonderful?

In KoA's defence, there is a significant difference between a game that revamps itself unexpectantly and arguably for unwarrented reasons and one that sets itself up to be that game from the beginning and follows through on it's promise.

There is absolutely nothing 'wrong' with the way KoA designed itself and plays. That is why it is being praised. DA2 was slammed because it didn't meet expectations, and in many cases completely contradicted expectations.

I believe DA2 was a failure to me not because it was a bad game, but because it was a bad sequel to an excellent game.

[esper]

nedpepper wrote...

KOA is being praised by fans for the same aspects that they buried DA:2. Hack/Slash combat. I have nothing against the KOA, but....I just find it strange that it's being fawned over and already getting GOTY talk for basically being a kind of old school mishmash of Fable and Skyrim and the main thing they are focusing on is BUTTON MASHING AWESOME COMBAT. This just illustrates, to me, that no one really knows what the hell they want out of CRPG. I'm quite....baffled to say the least. And makes me appreciate DA 2 all the more. At least they TRIED to do something different. I dunno...I just don't get the love. I don't get the Skyrim love either, though. Skyrim is really beautifully designed...but completely hollow. Maybe I'm not exactly the target audience. I thought I was. But what I love in an RPG is not what is represented in KOA or Skyrim. It's all very cliche and bland. I want story and character and emotion and choice, and while Dragon Age 2 didn't come through on this completely, it was still more in the direction I want to see them continue to go in.

If they really want to add in more "exploration", fine. But please don't turn Dragon Age into a soulless, nostalgia obsessed sandbox with a cliche plot and zero character.

To be completely fair, I care a little more about the story in KOA than in Skyrim. I think I might even play it through to the end. But to be honest I prefer bioware with its companions that I care about. In dragon age 2 I even care about the main character and feel that I can really roleplay her. Koa and skyrim is really only combat.

The one thing I want from Koa?... piercings... If the npc in dragon age can get ear- and I think I saw an underlip piercing too, then I want that options as well.  That is really the only thing I want from Koa.

[Huntress]

Ponendus wrote...

Huntress wrote...

nedpepper wrote...

KOA is being praised by fans for the same aspects that they buried DA:2. Hack/Slash combat. I have nothing against the KOA, but....I just find it strange that it's being fawned over and already getting GOTY talk for basically being a kind of old school mishmash of Fable and Skyrim and the main thing they are focusing on is BUTTON MASHING AWESOME COMBAT. This just illustrates, to me, that no one really knows what the hell they want out of CRPG. I'm quite....baffled to say the least. And makes me appreciate DA 2 all the more. At least they TRIED to do something different. I dunno...I just don't get the love. I don't get the Skyrim love either, though. Skyrim is really beautifully designed...but completely hollow. Maybe I'm not exactly the target audience. I thought I was. But what I love in an RPG is not what is represented in KOA or Skyrim. It's all very cliche and bland. I want story and character and emotion and choice, and while Dragon Age 2 didn't come through on this completely, it was still more in the direction I want to see them continue to go in.

If they really want to add in more "exploration", fine. But please don't turn Dragon Age into a soulless, nostalgia obsessed sandbox with a cliche plot and zero character.

I know! isn't wonderful?

In KoA's defence, there is a significant difference between a game that revamps itself unexpectantly and arguably for unwarrented reasons and one that sets itself up to be that game from the beginning and follows through on it's promise.

There is absolutely nothing 'wrong' with the way KoA designed itself and plays. That is why it is being praised. DA2 was slammed because it didn't meet expectations, and in many cases completely contradicted expectations.

I believe DA2 was a failure to me not because it was a bad game, but because it was a bad sequel to an excellent game.

In Da2 defence every single character has a soul, None are a blank sheet not a single 1, they all have personalities and they make the player think they actually have a brain to reason,  changes doesn't occur immediately but really, who changes her/his mind an a flick? someone who dicided not to think for himself? thats who!
You think is not fair we point out that everything that KOA is, is what actually DA2 was slammed for, over size weapon for 1, cartoonish look for number2, and killing everything in you're path from dawn to dusk as number3, I did try the demo it reminded me so much of WOW.

Life isn't fair, people compared DA2 to The witcher, everyone with a brain and a high IQ knew this two games were different but didn't change anyone minds, the rages were unstopable, now here we are again comparing Da2 to koa.. really? lets compare Koa to skyrim? the answer from this players: "Comparing KoA to Skyrim isn't really fair. Two pretty different games". 
really?  ( profanity alert!!)so you can bash and whine for a year about da2 but.. not one can point out Skyrim/Koa/ the Witcher flaws? ( Bersek and more profanity) that!

Modifié par Huntress, 13 février 2012 - 04:57 .

[alex90c]

cba to read that summarise pls

[caradoc2000]

Having played KoA for about 30 hours now, I find it to be a surprisingly fun game.

That said, the combat mechanics of KoA and DA differ a lot from each other - KoA's resemble Jade Empire's quite a bit.

[LinksOcarina]

 Well, I was chosen to write the official review for Reckoning on the site I contribute too. Here is the review if you want to read it, otherwise my thoughts are as follows. 

It is a very solid RPG, and I like the mechanics of it a lot. The combat is fluid and the diversity of attacks through the different weapon choices is really deep. I also like the fact that you have to work at fighting a group of enemies; you need to be more strategic or they just gang up on you, especially on the tougher difficulties. 

The fates system is awesome. I love the fact that we get to see hybrid classes like this, abliet in simpler form than before. I also am partial to the jack of all trades tree; they finally put in something that is full combination of all skills, which is rare in RPGs now a days. Even Skyrim really didn't give that freedom, it kind of just let you pick and choose yeah, but it had no classes to begin with, which I always...well, personally never liked.

I do wish the game was more open world, but what we have is a nice variety of zones and really good art style. Mcfarlane did a good job in leading to create this world, very vibrant, very colorful, and distinct. It stands out because it has enough in it to make it stand out. 

But its also linear by design, the old MMO design shines through a lot, and kills it a bit when you backtrack, especially since everything is divided into zones. 


Also, the storyline is typical high fantasy shlock. Although, considering R.A Salvatore was the writer...yeah...don't expect anything deep here.

Overall I think the grade and recommendation make sense to me. It is a solid game, but overall doesn't do much to change the landscape of the RPG genre.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

[quote]nedpepper wrote...

KOA is being praised by fans for the same aspects that they buried DA:2. Hack/Slash combat.[/quote]

Really? I have only played the demo of KOA, but I enjoyed it for more than its approach to combat. For instance, I loved the spectacular fantasy scenery and colours. DA2 didn't have that (nor did DA:O, but it had more variety).

[quote]I have nothing against the KOA, but....I just find it strange that it's being fawned over and already getting GOTY talk for basically being a kind of old school mishmash of Fable and Skyrim and the main thing they are focusing on is BUTTON MASHING AWESOME COMBAT.[/quote]

Have you played it at all, even the demo? The combat is *very* fluid, you can pick abilities from any trees and switch between them effortlessly for so many different combo effects and visuals that it's hard to get bored of it.

DA2's combat was (IMO) improved from DA:O, but it still bored me. And it didn't help that it also focussed on button mashing awesome combat...or have you forgotten all the marketing? All the spawndrops and waves? There was so much focus on DA2's apparently awesome combat that the demo featured nothing but.

The DLCs improved it, I think, but it was too late for the core game. DA2 combat *was* mindless, and repetitive, and it kept happening over and over.

KOA does do it better--but KOA is a single player game. Party-based combat, especially realtime where you can control any party member, would be impossibly messy if used a levelling system like KOA's.

[quote]This just illustrates, to me, that no one really knows what the hell they want out of CRPG. I'm quite....baffled to say the least.[/quote]

Don't be. It's easy. I buy a CRPG like KOA when I want a pretty hackandslash, and I buy a CRPG like DA2 when I couldn't care less about combat and just want a good story and companions.

I don't always get what I expected, but I know exactly what I want out of the games I buy. If they don't meet my expectations, then yes, I am disappointed.

[quote]And makes me appreciate DA 2 all the more. At least they TRIED to do something different. I dunno...I just don't get the love.[/quote]

Tried to do something different how? With combat? It was revamped, sure, but I wouldn't have called it different.enough to warrant such a claim of trying. Are you saying Amalur's levelling/combat system is not different?

[quote]I don't get the Skyrim love either, though. Skyrim is really beautifully designed...but completely hollow. Maybe I'm not exactly the target audience. I thought I was.[/quote]

Skyrim is a living, breathing world, and it's bloody huge. But the world is more alive and interactive than the characters who live in it. They have schedules, they react to favours you've done them, they call the guards if you try to rob them--all of which is awesome...but they have no depth.

I love Skyrim because it's so big. I *miss* exploring, seeing new sights, and interacting with a dynamic world. I miss being in something so open you can go practically anywhere, off the beaten track, get hopelessly lost but find beauty I wouldn't have seen if I hadn't been brave enough to leave the road.

But I also miss having a good story to drive my imagination. Skyrim doesn't have that, and even when DA2's plot had me tearing my hair out over various points I deemed idiocy, I still enjoyed it more than Skyrim's. At least DA2's story wasn't dull.

[quote]But what I love in an RPG is not what is represented in KOA or Skyrim. It's all very cliche and bland. I want story and character and emotion and choice, and while Dragon Age 2 didn't come through on this completely, it was still more in the direction I want to see them continue to go in.[/quote]

Except for the bold, I agree. DA2's problem is that it changed too much from DA:O -- it removed/changed too many of those RPG elements people like me want. As such, there will be a portion of the playerbase that despises it. Sadly, by Skyrim or KOA trumping DA2 the market will perceive RP elements less desirable. But that doesn't mean either of those games are undeserving of praise, or love. They are both grand in their own rights.

[quoet]If they really want to add in more "exploration", fine. But please don't turn Dragon Age into a soulless, nostalgia obsessed sandbox with a cliche plot and zero character. [/quote]

Considering we're talking about Bioware, I wouldn't worry about 'zero character'. Have that much faith.

[Firky]

LinksOcarina wrote...

But its also linear by design, the old MMO design shines through a lot, and kills it a bit when you backtrack, especially since everything is divided into zones. 

Do you have a source for that, by any chance? I was under the impression the MMO was being developed seperately. (But I haven't looked into it.)

Enjoying the game lots. (More than I thought I would be, based on the preview.) I think its the fact that you can't screw up your build. You can be any combination of the 3 classes and it is still viable. I agree with SoL that it wouldn't make sense in a party game - and I did secretly love how difficult it was to build in DA2 on NM - but it certainly makes the game *fun.*

[LinksOcarina]

Firky wrote...

LinksOcarina wrote...

But its also linear by design, the old MMO design shines through a lot, and kills it a bit when you backtrack, especially since everything is divided into zones. 

Do you have a source for that, by any chance? I was under the impression the MMO was being developed seperately. (But I haven't looked into it.)

Enjoying the game lots. (More than I thought I would be, based on the preview.) I think its the fact that you can't screw up your build. You can be any combination of the 3 classes and it is still viable. I agree with SoL that it wouldn't make sense in a party game - and I did secretly love how difficult it was to build in DA2 on NM - but it certainly makes the game *fun.*

Well, the original project codename was Copernicus before 2009. After 38 Studios acquired Big Huge games from THQ, which was working on an RPG at the time, they decided to combine the projects to cut down on development time.

They are making an MMO though still, based on Reckonings world. Supposedly it will not hinge on Reckonings success.

Some sources...

www.rpgfan.com/previews/Kingdoms_of_Amalur_Reckoning/index.html

xbox360.ign.com/articles/115/1153816p1.html

Modifié par LinksOcarina, 14 février 2012 - 04:07 .

[Morroian]

nedpepper wrote...
KOA is being praised by fans for the same aspects that they buried DA:2. Hack/Slash combat. I have nothing against the KOA,  

 
What can I say but I agree totally. Its also in the cartoony art style, its got far worse writing than DA2....... Its enjoyable but hollow as you refer to Skyrim below.

nedpepper wrote...
but....I just find it strange that it's being fawned over and already getting GOTY talk for basically being a kind of old school mishmash of Fable and Skyrim and the main thing they are focusing on is BUTTON MASHING AWESOME COMBAT. This just illustrates, to me, that no one really knows what the hell they want out of CRPG. I'm quite....baffled to say the least. And makes me appreciate DA 2 all the more. At least they TRIED to do something different. I dunno...I just don't get the love. I don't get the Skyrim love either, though. Skyrim is really beautifully designed...but completely hollow. 

I disagree on Skyrim, its all about the game play with good enough storytelling (as opposed to a good story or good characetrisation etc.)  and the great world simulation that it adds a sense of depth to the game.

Ponendus wrote...
In KoA's defence, there is a significant difference between a game that revamps itself unexpectantly and arguably for unwarrented reasons and one that sets itself up to be that game from the beginning and follows through on it's promise.
There is absolutely nothing 'wrong' with the way KoA designed itself and plays. That is why it is being praised. DA2 was slammed because it didn't meet expectations, and in many cases completely contradicted expectations.
I believe DA2 was a failure to me not because it was a bad game, but because it was a bad sequel to an excellent game.

So you're saying DA2 isn't a bad game taken entirely on its own. 

esper wrote...
To be completely fair, I care a little more about the story in KOA than in Skyrim.

I don't. Like I said above Skyrim's storytelling is good. The civil war storyline is ambiguous with no right answer, there are hundreds of well told little stories in locations throughout Skyrim. The only knock on the stories apart from the dialogue and characterisation is the length.

Modifié par Morroian, 14 février 2012 - 04:12 .

[Gemini1179]

Tried the Kingdoms of Alamur thing on xbox. It was like World of Warcraft meets KOTOR (circa 2001) meets Magic: The Gathering meets DA2. Not for me. Canderous as a Fateweaver was kind of interesting but the camera was a pain and I didn't bother to look for an option to lock it.

Modifié par Gemini1179, 14 février 2012 - 04:52 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Morroian wrote...
Like I said above Skyrim's storytelling is good. The civil war storyline is ambiguous with no right answer, there are hundreds of well told little stories in locations throughout Skyrim. The only knock on the stories apart from the dialogue and characterisation is the length.

People will have different likes and dislikes when it comes to any story (eg. Twilight). Skyrim's political story has failed to grab me, personally, beyond a vague interest in the backgrounds of certain NPCs, and my character has no interest in taking sides in a war where neither side is in the right. As far as she's concerned, they're all a bunch of stupid mammals.

Ambiguous morality and 'no right side' don't always mean a story will be halfway decent. Between DA2, The Witcher 2 and Skyrim, conflicts where there are no good/evil side are becoming as cliche as the once-time quintessential good vs evil story.

Edit: fixed quote origin!

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 14 février 2012 - 05:34 .

[esper]

Edited away, because no longer relevant

Modifié par esper, 14 février 2012 - 05:38 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

^^ Done. Apologies for the misquote. Got lost in the quote pyramids, I guess... XD