55 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

You still have a fair amount of missions left. Without spoilers, there are 2 missions that open after Reaper IFF.

You get to pick your squad for everything except the loyalty missions (where one squad member is set). And for Arrival there isn't a squad.

As for the ammo, if you really like Cryo you can go with that. I think Inferno is better on Vanguard, but Cryo can work. Others have already pointed out that the freezing animation can confer some immunity to biotic effects, so just keep that in mind.

[capn233]

Not really. It's more unfair to claim you can't use the Vindicator because it doesn't have enough ammo. That is only true if you either miss a lot or try to kill every enemy with it and not use any powers. But that is true for practically every weapon in the game, albeit less true for the Locust especially with the ammo upgrade.

Pure DPS shouldn't be your only metric for weapon choice, especially on a Vanguard. But sticking with it it's sort of odd to dismiss the better DPS of all the top AR's. Granted he won't be running the Revenant as a Vanguard, but you can't really justify Locust as an AR replacement if it only beats the starting AR and the random add-in AR's. I have never tried to play with the Avenger after getting the Vindicator, that just doesn't make much sense. The Vindicator turns into a laser that is perfect for getting headshots at nearly any range, and it does a decent job of activating ammo powers as well.

Even if Mattock is better than the Vindicator (which outside of Adrenaline Rush is debatable), they are both still better than the Locust.

And somewhat related to your last point, taking the Locust as an AR replacement prevents you from using something better up close like the Shuriken or Tempest.

Modifié par capn233, 15 janvier 2012 - 05:27 .

[Rasputin17]

I found this little debate to be very interesting. I am afriad even if it makes more sense to use Tempest I just enjoy the Locust. I feel with the Locust I can lock on to a foe and just hammer him. I like the sound and feel. At the same time I have noticed the Tempest rapes shields. My thing is if I am using Scmitar I should use Locust and if I am Evi Shot Gun I should use Tempest since each gun kind of covers the others weakness.

[Graunt]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

1. If you have Mattock/Viper be sure to get Inferno Ammo. It's like Reave, but with no cooldown. Personally I don't think Squad Cryo is that important for a Biotic class.

2. Locust is an Assault Rifle replacer. If you take the Mattock then the Locust is useless to you. Otherwise it's great.

3. Pull Field since you already have Reave.

4. What the others said.

I actually never played with the Mattock on a Vanguard until recently, and it combined with Inferno Ammo does make Reave rather redundant.  I just did the Collector ship with Miranda/Thane (I usually use Samara/Thane) and it was ridiculously easy.  Starting to really like Pull Field quite a bit, although I don't really see the need for both Pull and Reave if you took the Mattock.  Squad Cryo doesn't really feel like a necessity or more than a fun gimmick either.  And it costs 10 points.  By the time enemies are actually in the frozen state, they have 1/3 of their health left.

I was also debating Slam vs Reave in another thread, but I think after this playthrough I'm going to start over and see how things go using Slam instead.  Probably not that differently though since before you can get Inferno or at least rank 3 you'll have Jacob with you anyway.  In most of my previous playthroughs the bonus powers were used, but not really that much and with a single point, and the random biotics bugs, the one point Slam didn't really mesh very well with Warp bombs.  

Modifié par Graunt, 15 janvier 2012 - 09:33 .

[capn233]

Rasputin17 wrote...

I found this little debate to be very
interesting. I am afriad even if it makes more sense to use Tempest I
just enjoy the Locust. I feel with the Locust I can lock on to a foe and
just hammer him. I like the sound and feel. At the same time I have
noticed the Tempest rapes shields. My thing is if I am using Scmitar I
should use Locust and if I am Evi Shot Gun I should use Tempest since
each gun kind of covers the others weakness.

I'm glad you found it interesting and that we didn't ruin your thread

iOnlySignIn wrote...
I'll give you that. Vindi is no good with Charge however, unlike Mattock. Heavy Charge abuses the Mattock just like Adrenaline Rush.

It isn't quite as bad... sure you get to abuse the outlandish ROF, but at least it isn't doubling damage.

That is more relevant for other non-Soldier classes. Vanguard has shotgun.

In ME3 though, you could realistically play an SMG/AR Vanguard. Based on the ME2 choice of weapons, I'd say Tempest + Mattock easily beats any other SMG/AR combo.

Which is why I said the Locust should only be considered if you don't take Mattock. If you do take Mattock (or Viper for that matter), Shuriken or Tempest are both good. I like the Tempest for the look, sound, and feel.

I think you have an interesting point of view here... on the one hand you are basing AR choice on charging with the AR, but the SMG choice isn't relevant to charging due to the shotgun.

If you only want to use the shotgun for charging, Vindicator or Mattock are better than Locust at basically everything except spare ammo, IMO.  Which is why I argue that the Locust isn't an AR replacement, despite that being a pretty commonly written phrase on the board.  It seems like a stopgap at best.  I suppose if you compare it to the sad ARs it could replace them.  I don't have the Collector rifle, don't use the Geth rifle except on Legion, and only give Zaeed the Avenger and personally use it 1 mission until I get the Vindicator.

Semantics, perhaps.  Maybe a better question, which we have been dancing around, is even whether a Vanguard needs an AR or an AR replacement.  Personally I think mid range is not something you should even bother with as a Vanguard.  When I played I opened at range and then the charging starts and you end up mostly at close range... so like you commented earlier I think Viper and Tempest is one of the best combos you can get if you don't go Claymore.

But if you decide yes then I do not think Eviscerator or Locust are really all that great at mid range, at least not compared to the decent ARs.  Locust is a decnt gun, has AR like multipliers, but it just has a poor feel, and it's burst damage isn't hugely impressive.  I would rather use something else to deal some damage accurately, and then hit cover, reload, and or acquire the next taget.

[capn233]

Graunt wrote...
I actually never played with the Mattock on a Vanguard until recently, and it combined with Inferno Ammo does make Reave rather redundant.  I just did the Collector ship with Miranda/Thane (I usually use Samara/Thane) and it was ridiculously easy.  Starting to really like Pull Field quite a bit, although I don't really see the need for both Pull and Reave if you took the Mattock.  Squad Cryo doesn't really feel like a necessity or more than a fun gimmick either.  And it costs 10 points.  By the time enemies are actually in the frozen state, they have 1/3 of their health left.

I was also debating Slam vs Reave in another thread, but I think after this playthrough I'm going to start over and see how things go using Slam instead.  Probably not that differently though since before you can get Inferno or at least rank 3 you'll have Jacob with you anyway.  In most of my previous playthroughs the bonus powers were used, but not really that much and with a single point, and the random biotics bugs, the one point Slam didn't really mesh very well with Warp bombs.  

I think Reave is sort of redundant on a Charge Vanguard.  If you cut out charge and just wanted to cast it seems like it would mesh better.

Squad cryo is pretty decent, but I do agree it does not make or break the game.  How well it works is largely dependent on what weapons are equipped on your squad.

Personally I think 1pt slam is about the perfect bonus power for the Vanguard.  As long as the squad is behind you to instacast warp, it works decently for warp bombs.  If not then you have a small window since the lift part of slam is all you get for the warp bomb.  Slam can also be sort of funny if you pull an enemy first as it becomes something of a super slam.

Modifié par capn233, 15 janvier 2012 - 11:30 .

[Rasputin17]

I bascally use Reave in situations where Charge is not a good idea. I just like the power but I am starting to think that Flash Bang would be the better bonus power. You could use when you are overwhelmed or throw one, start shooting then charge when they get back on their feet. I do enjoy using slam I can't combo off it though because I need Miranda for both Slam and Warp. I am going to keep playing around. I just wish once you build up your team you could have many chances to use the party memembers you want. You know what would have been cool is once you finish the game you are able to use all party memembers from the start. When you replay their mission it gives you a bonus power instead of the unlocking the character. I guess this would mess too much with plot and such though. It would also be really cool if you could make your own class.

[Graunt]

capn233 wrote...

I think Reave is sort of redundant on a Charge Vanguard.  If you cut out charge and just wanted to cast it seems like it would mesh better.

You can't charge missle launchers that are up on ledges, and it's usually unsafe to charge pyros.  Reave is to make up for your lack of ranged damage in those specific scenarios where you can't Charge.  I would never use it as a replacement for Charge and wasn't suggesting otherwise.

Personally I think 1pt slam is about the perfect bonus power for the Vanguard.  As long as the squad is behind you to instacast warp, it works decently for warp bombs.  If not then you have a small window since the lift part of slam is all you get for the warp bomb.  Slam can also be sort of funny if you pull an enemy first as it becomes something of a super slam.

Slam by itself is actually pretty crummy and doesn't do enough raw damage to matter, even fully evolved.  The 1pt version is also extremely sketchy when it comes to Warp bombs.  It seems like there's some AI bugginess going on when using it, because very often when you use an allies' Warp right after Slam, suddenly the Warps stop being instant cast like they are any other time.  It's not a matter of me not being quick enough--allies will literally wait 3-4 seconds or not even cast it at all if I command them to during the Slam.  This doesn't happen 100% of the time, but it's extremely noticeable.  Slam also has that annoying bug that Pull sometimes gets too where you hit an unprotected enemy, they get the blue glow yet go about their business as normal.

I just ran through the Shadow Broker mission using it, and yeah it works on the defending the hatch sequence, but that's only because many of the enemies are standing on slanted geometry.  It does literally nothing most of the rest of the time unless they were at the top of a Singularity spin...which usually sends them off into space by itself anyway.

If you're going to only dump one point, then it really doesn't matter what you pick, as long as it has a relatively short cooldown.  For a deeper investment, I think I'd much rather spend it on Pull Field.

Modifié par Graunt, 16 janvier 2012 - 05:14 .

[goofyomnivore]

Personally I think 1pt slam is about the perfect bonus power for the Vanguard.

Slam is my favorite after Stasis. Stasis even without the fall of death exploit is imo the best bonus power and probably still overpowered.

It seems like there's some AI bugginess going on when using it, because very often when you use an allies' Warp right after Slam, suddenly the Warps stop being instant cast like they are any other time.

If your allies are in line of sight they will do a 1-2s animation if they're not it is instant. It is very annoying.

Slam also has that annoying bug that Pull sometimes gets too where you hit an unprotected enemy, they get the blue glow yet go about their business as normal.

You can still detonate them when they glow blue, but yeah that bug sucks and has killed me lots of times due them not being CC'd.

[mcsupersport]

Stasis is the best bonus power out there IMO. I am starting to not want to take it just because it is so good. On a Vanguard I wonder if Neural Shockwave(level 4 area) would be a nice change from cryo/area pull. It has a ultra short cool, area effect, instant cast......hmmm, may have to give it a look. Reave is good, but not I think as good on all classes as people think. As for the idea of hitting Rocketeers on ledges, unless it is Mordin and the Vorcha, almost all other missions have Shields instead of Armor so Reave is less effective in that case. A pull after armor/shield strip is better than a Reave in most cases due to having the drop to their deaths after it wears off. To me Slam is decent but not great simply because no area effect, which I miss on Husk/collector mission.

On a Vanguard I don't like any power that interferes with Charge, and so I don't put enough points into it to really make a huge difference except for 1 pt wonders like slam, Stasis, and maybe NS.

[HolyAvenger]

I'm not a bonus power user, but of all the bonus powers, Stasis is by far the best one. Superb one-point wonder.

[Kronner]

strive wrote...

Slam is my favorite after Stasis. Stasis even without the fall of death exploit is imo the best bonus power and probably still overpowered.

Yeah, Stasis is pretty crazy. Though it is really useful only against big enemies such as YMIR mechs or Scions IMHO.

Slam, on the other hand, is useful against regular enemies..so it depends on what one wants, I guess.

I wish we could have both at the same time 

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Slam is crazy for regular enemies b/c it's fast and gives you options between cc and warp combos. The only things it doesn't do is instakill drones or generate 'micro-cover' - if those are real drawbacks at all, lol.

Yeah, Stasis really is best vs. big things, but it's such a jewel for all the shenanigans you can do with it.

Who knows what ME3 will bring... maybe we will be able to take both. Then again, they might just go and "fix the 'Stasis Bug'" .

@ OP:

1. I prefer to max Inferno, just so I have some faster AoE/CC for myself. I also used Area Reave for my chargeguard, but in truth, it's not really a priority power, imo.

2. You seem to be in a similar spot as me when I was playing this build. I'd take the Locust just to have another strong ranged option. Every SG has it's own quirk, so try them all and just stick with the one you like.

3. Both, imo... Pull Field being the priority, really. However, Area Reave is a bit wanting on Insanity, so unless you've modded or are intending to mod, I'd just concentrate on Pull Field on that difficulty.

4. You can easily hit lvl 30 before the SM w/o any DLC, but you're right in that you can max all your skills. This is the main reason we've come up with so many different builds and playstyles. For a 'perfect' PT, the IFF is the third last mission, followed by Legion's LM, then finally the SM. NG+ carries over all your skills and equipment. Upgrades need to be unlocked again.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 16 janvier 2012 - 04:47 .

[capn233]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

For a 'perfect' PT, the IFF is the third last mission, followed by Legion's LM, then finally the SM. NG+ carries over all your skills and equipment. Upgrades need to be unlocked again.

You can do another mission after IFF before Legion's and still save everyone.  You have a 2 mission window after IFF, but going on Legion's LM will automatically trigger the abduction if you try that one first.  Leaving Tali's mission, for example, after the IFF also allows you to get Legion's Widow before his mission.  If only his mission is left when you talk to him it will force the conversation about Heretic Station, and you will be locked out of the standard upgrade conversation until you complete it.

[ryoldschool]

capn233 wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

For a 'perfect' PT, the IFF is the third last mission, followed by Legion's LM, then finally the SM. NG+ carries over all your skills and equipment. Upgrades need to be unlocked again.

You can do another mission after IFF before Legion's and still save everyone.  You have a 2 mission window after IFF, but going on Legion's LM will automatically trigger the abduction if you try that one first.  Leaving Tali's mission, for example, after the IFF also allows you to get Legion's Widow before his mission.  If only his mission is left when you talk to him it will force the conversation about Heretic Station, and you will be locked out of the standard upgrade conversation until you complete it.

Thanks for posting that.  I did what you said ( left Tali LM for after the Reaper IFF ), but forgot the sequence.  Took Legion on Tali's LM and there is some interesting dialog in Tali's mission.

So, in case I want to do this again:
(1) Don't do Tali's LM
(2) Complete the Reaper IFF
(3) Talk to Legion to let him join the party.  Is there any conversation points you need to avoid here?
(4) Do Tali LM with Legion in party
(5) Talk to Legion again - Legion will bring it up???

[goofyomnivore]

You got it right ryoldschool no dialogues you need to avoid either.

[capn233]

ryoldschool wrote...

Thanks for posting that.  I did what you said ( left Tali LM for after the Reaper IFF ), but forgot the sequence.  Took Legion on Tali's LM and there is some interesting dialog in Tali's mission.

So, in case I want to do this again:
(1) Don't do Tali's LM
(2) Complete the Reaper IFF
(3) Talk to Legion to let him join the party.  Is there any conversation points you need to avoid here?
(4) Do Tali LM with Legion in party
(5) Talk to Legion again - Legion will bring it up???

Basically.  This actually works with any loyalty mission (except Zaeed or Kasumi's).  Basically if you have done all the loyalty missions then Legion wants to talk to you about his mission.  So you don't get the option "I want to learn more about the Geth" and then the [Upgrades] option after that.  Instead he will just go into the loyalty mission speech and then when you accept it any time you go back to him you just get the "when are we going on my mission" dialogue, like with everyone else.

You don't have to do Tali's mission with Legion.  That is unless you want a few special interactions.  The first is at the airlock where they draw their weapons instead of politely meeting you.  The second is asking Legion if the Geth are open to peace when talking to Koris.  The third is Xen saying she would like the chance to examine Legion and his response about not being available for experimentation.  If you talk to Legion about the Geth prior to the mission you can tell the admirals about the Geth factions without Legion being there.

Supposedly there is a way to get beyond the two mission limit for the crew abductions if you absolutely do not talk to one squad member at all.  I have never tried that myself so I don't know if it works.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Huh. I honestly didn't know I could do more than one mission safely after the IFF. I learn something new every day.

[Rasputin17]

So I should wait to do Tali LM until after IFF then first do Talis mission then go and speak with Legion? And the reason I do this is to allow him to use his Widown on his LM am I correct? This works with any squad memember right? So, if I want to save Thane LM instead so I can respec Samara with Pull Field and pull off warp bombs I can? And instead do Talis mission before Shadow Broker. Maybe I am crazy but I want to have Inferno Ammo for the mission and still have enough mission screens to be able to get all the downloads. At the same time I also want to respec Samara and Kasumi and try some new combos and such..... Probably going to need a new game.



Is there anything special I have to do to make sure my crew survives except upgrading the ship?


Oh yeah money and eezo do not carry over to new game plus?

Modifié par Rasputin17, 17 janvier 2012 - 01:43 .

[capn233]

If you haven't played Tali's mission with Legion I would recommend saving it to try it out. It's a little different and worth doing at least once.

Regarding speaking to them, do Reaper IFF... then go to the AI core and activate Legion. Talk to him about the Geth, Sovereign and the Geth, etc. You should also be able to talk to him about upgrades. All stuff you enter from the left of the conversation wheel. That lets you get the Widow immediately so if you use him on Tali's mission you can have the Widow there too.

Like I said, it doesn't have to be Tali's mission, it could be practically any loyalty mission. I don't think Zaeed or Kasumi's work... at least not to get the Widow. You can still save them and play them as one of the 2 missions before the abduction. Reason being is that they don't seem to block Legion from wanting to talk to you about his mission.

[ryoldschool]

^ in answer about the SM, there is a guide here that covers everything you could think of ( those guys had way too much time on their hands to test out all that stuff ). 

But basically, get all ship upgrades, and do all the loyality missions successfully, follow capn233's advise about doing missions after Reaper IFF, then make the "correct" choices on the SM - if you want to figure it out for yourself, then make sure you have a good save before you start the SM

[Rasputin17]

thanks ry. One more thing, just to make sure I can use assignments as "a day" passing to get all the upgrades on the Shadow Broker right? I would have Tali LM for after IFF, Garrus LM, Zaeed LM, Overload and Arrival as well as a few of the Project Firewalker missions. Just want to make sure so I can get Shotun, SMG and AR.

[ryoldschool]

Yes that will work if you use the save / reload until you get a weapon upgrade each time.