5521 réponses à ce sujet

[chris2365]

Ottemis wrote...

It's funny, this is no surprise at all, seeing ME2 already required you to log in to EA to verify new DLC. ME3 is basically the same, and logically depends on being connected when you want to multiplayer, as to single-player it's exactly the same as ME2.
That they link it all through the Origin Client now instead of it just being a login in-game makes sense.

This. As for Origin, if EA hasn't gotten the message now, in a 102 page thread full of complaints and threats of piracy/cancelations in 24 hours, they never will. And the problem with Mass Effect 3, is that it's the conclusion of the Mass Effect trilogy, and the Most Anticipated Game of 2012. EA knows that a couple of raging people won't change much, simply because so many people will just buy the game and live with Origin.

Modifié par chris2365, 15 janvier 2012 - 03:13 .

[crimzontearz]

Moondoggie wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
sooo here's another thing I'm not understanding...

discussion of piracy is not allowed.....understandable

Endorsing piracy also not allowed and completely understandable

but Origin is going to inflate piracy (you know it is) if anything by doing something that is arguably just as morally reprehensible as piracy...sure two wrongs don't make a right and three rights make a left but how can we discuss this situation without pointing out the obvious fact that Origin is indeed going to make people want to pirate the game out is spite?
again not endorsing piracy...just saying that censoring people on the subject is going to add fuel to the fire....

You just contradicted yourself. Discussing piracy is against the rules so don't say so and then discuss piracy lol. Generally making threats that the platform will make you pirate the game is not a good thing to do on these forums. And yes saying "it will encourage piracy" is a threat.

BUT....I am discussing the censorship of Piracy talk not piracy itself and its effects....

Also I am not endorsing piracy

[Ryzaki]

strive wrote...

3 of the top 4 games pirated in 2011 were multiplayer.

Exactly.

Cd-Projekkt. The source is like on page 15-20 of this thread.

Okay. Still pretty sure BF3 is gonna beat that.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 janvier 2012 - 03:16 .

[izmirtheastarach]

OmegaBlue0231 wrote...

People still pay for Live because it comes with other things like security, not having the worrying about people using mods to cheat, cloud storage, and the ability to acess social networks and thrid party software on the 360.

Most of those things are available free elsewhere. Either way, discussing Xbox live is probably off topic.

[zeekayy]

I won't be buying ME3, nor will many people I know (and several more after I get done talking to them). Arguing this is to stave off piracy is silly, it's going to push a great many to pirate the game.

Offer it on Steam and I'll buy it in a heartbeat!

[anzolino]

DiegoRaphael wrote...
Dragon Age 2 needed to be online all the time, or the DLCs would not validate and so the game could end up corrupt.

That's not true. My DA2 is offline since months and I can still play it with the DLC (but I have only the first one, after that I decided not to buy any of this useless furthermore.)

[Ducktail]

Chris Priestly wrote...

However, I really do not accept the criticism that WE, BioWare and EA, are wrong for not offering it on Steam. We would like to offer it on Steam. We used to have a good relationship with Steam. The more stores and digital retailers who sell our games, the more customers can buy the games and the money we can make. We are working with digital retailers like Direct2Drive and others so we are not Origin exclusive by any means. Unfortunately, Steam changed their policies and we are currently not able to come to an agreement that allows us to be on Steam. We were on Steam for ME2. We were on Steam for Dragon Age II until we had to remove it, again because Steam changed their policies. We would be on Steam now if their policies allowed us to be there. I do not know if a significant number of fans complaining to Steam that they want Mass Effect 3 to be on Steam will have an effect or not, but it certainly will not hurt. Steam is a great service and I would hope that we will work with them if it becomes possible for us to do so.

I've read every public statement by both EA and Valve about this whole "terms of service" breach from the date DragonAge 2 was pulled from Steam. However, neither of your companies have spelled out what 
policies it is that is preventing these games from being offered. These are obviously policies that are in the ToU from Steam as the publisher to EA as the Developer and not something in the public domain. If you really wish to shead light on the issue someone could release the wording of this policy that is preventing Mass Effect 3 from being sold on Steam.

I'm thinking it's just an issue over the DLC not being offered on Steam. EA/BioWare wants to sell it to us directly with their BioWare point system. The way you packaged the DragonAge 2 DLC, as small .exe packages, seems like it would work just as well with Steam. Does EA really not want to share a percent of the profits with Steam badly enough to stop offering their future games like this?

If I am wrong please point me to the real policy that it is preventing you two from working together so we can internet petition(lol) the right company.

[Ponendus]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Ponendus wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

sooo here's another thing I'm not understanding...

discussion of piracy is not allowed.....understandable

Endorsing piracy also not allowed and completely understandable

but Origin is going to inflate piracy (you know it is) if anything by doing something that is arguably just as morally reprehensible as piracy...sure two wrongs don't make a right and three rights make a left but how can we discuss this situation without pointing out the obvious fact that Origin is indeed going to make people want to pirate the game out is spite?

again not endorsing piracy...just saying that censoring people on the subject is going to add fuel to the fire....

But no DRM will also inflate piracy (The Witcher 2 proved it), so what is your solution? I still haven't seen one.

Thats because no one knows what the solution is.
The best way to get the maximum profit for ANYTHING though is to treat the people who WANT to buy your product with respect.
Microsoft doesn't treat their costumers with respect so I changed my mind when I planned on buying an Xbox 360 (hell sold my old original Xbox)
Valve, while not perfect seems to be treating me with respect I have no problem buying from them or buying a steam product.
If I go to the supermarket and the employees followed me around like they thought I already stole something why would I take my business there?
I want to buy ME3.  I want to support Bioware but my concious wont let me.

Why though? Why do you feel they are disrespecting you? They appear to me to be doing the best they can to protect their product, which is understandable. I understand you wanting to be treated with respect, so where is the disrespect?

The supermarket analogy is also not relevant. You can't go and download your bread and milk from a pirate.

[Blakes 7]

Everyone remembers when half life 2 required steam to run...right??? Anyhow I basically do not trust EA given historical and recent behaviour over things of a gaming nature, I may not use origin but I will feel like the program is watching me and waiting to ban me from playing games over something unrelated and innoculous. (like forum bans in bf3) EA should be aware of the privacy debate at large in many countries now, EULAs basically mean nothing and are largely unenforceable in a court of law. And I am addressing EA because bioware is just a brand name now that EA are milking for the $$$.

[Rockworm503]

OmegaBlue0231 wrote...

charmingcharlie wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...
This is laughable to me. These measures accomplish nothing. Case in point, I've refused to pay for Xbox live gold for years, and yet I still can't play any multiplayer games. Why didn't Microsoft listen? Because I am one in a million. Why would they care?

It is pretty elementary why you are still paying for live on the Xbox.  It is so elementary I can't believe I am having to tell you but here goes.  You are still having to pay for Xbox live because NOT ENOUGH of you stood up to Microsoft.  That is why Microsoft doesn't care, because your voice isn't loud enough.

Now contrast that with GFWL a service that Microsoft launched on the PC which also incurred a fee like Xbox live.  When the paid service was launched you could quite literally hear the unbridled laughter fromn PC gamers that Microsoft would even try such a moronic thing.  So millions of PC gamers didn't bother with GFWL and even after Microsoft ditched the fee millions of PC gamers still ignored or avoided GFWL titles because the client was crap.  Now Microsoft is retiring GFWL and starting all over again.

You see whilst you are only one voice when it joins with many, companies listen.  The minute you start going "oh I am only one person what is the point" that is the point the company will walk right over you and treat you with utter contempt and you deserve it really.

People still pay for Live because it comes with other things like security, not having the worrying about people using mods to cheat, cloud storage, and the ability to acess social networks and thrid party software on the 360.

LOL its not like PSN or Steam has that either.

[goofyomnivore]

Exactly.

And? They're traditionally commonly more pirated against, but due to no DRM the Witcher 2 has a worse pirating rate.

Modifié par strive, 15 janvier 2012 - 03:16 .

[Marionetten]

strive wrote...

Cd-Projekkt. The source is like on page 15-20 of this thread.

You might want to add that it was an estimate he came up with on the spot.

An estimate not backed up by any actual statistics.

[Incognito JC]

Should probably remind you guys that the constant talk on piracy and how you support them will get this thread locked, or might get your account banned. Better tone it down. Raen gave a few warnings already.

[Savadrin]

Rockworm503 wrote...

Ponendus wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

sooo here's another thing I'm not understanding...

discussion of piracy is not allowed.....understandable

Endorsing piracy also not allowed and completely understandable

but Origin is going to inflate piracy (you know it is) if anything by doing something that is arguably just as morally reprehensible as piracy...sure two wrongs don't make a right and three rights make a left but how can we discuss this situation without pointing out the obvious fact that Origin is indeed going to make people want to pirate the game out is spite?

again not endorsing piracy...just saying that censoring people on the subject is going to add fuel to the fire....

But no DRM will also inflate piracy (The Witcher 2 proved it), so what is your solution? I still haven't seen one.

Thats because no one knows what the solution is.
The best way to get the maximum product for ANYTHING though is to treat the people who WANT to buy your product with respect.
Microsoft doesn't treat their costumers with respect so I changed my mind when I planned on buying an Xbox 360 (hell sold my old original Xbox)
Valve, while not perfect seems to be treating me with respect I have no problem buying from them or buying a steam product.
If I go to the supermarket and the employees followed me around like they thought I already stole something why would I take my business there?
I want to buy ME3.  I want to support Bioware but my concious wont let me.

it's a hard thing to quantify and predict. i believe excessive DRM prevents more sales than the number of instances of piracy it prevents. the moment any game goes up for sale, the countdown has begun for it to be pirated. all DRM does, if it accomplishes anything, is extend that countdown by a few days. i've seen people talk about how witcher 2 had no DRM and was the most pirated game of the year, yada yada. it also sold a hell of a lot of copies legitimately. the profit from those legitimate sales was not dipped into by extensive spending on developing DRM for the game.

DRM adds more hassle for consumers to play games they buy. this hurts potential sales because of the knee-jerk reaction to instantly assume a given company is losing money due to software piracy. how can a company lose money it never had?

[Ryzaki]

strive wrote...

Exactly.

And? They're traditionally commonly more pirated against, but due to no DRM the Witcher 2 has a worse pirating rate.

not even remotely.

Unless you want to show me where BF3 (and we'll have to wait until it's been around nearly the same amount of time Witcher 2 was when CDProjeckt made that statement).

You have proof of that? Show it to me.

Edit: Oh yeah.

I do not support nor endore piracy in any way. I merely question the use of Origin as a viable anti piracy source.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 janvier 2012 - 03:17 .

[goofyomnivore]

MI: There are no stats available, but let’s make a quick calculation. I was checking regularly the number of concurrent downloads on torrent aggregating sites, and for the first 6-8 weeks there was around 20-30k ppl downloading it at the same time. Let’s take 20k as the average and let’s take 6 weeks. The game is 14GB, so let’s assume that on an average not-too-fast connection it will be 6 hours of download. 6 weeks is 56 days, which equals to 1344 hours; and with 6h of average download time to get the game it would give us 224 downloads, then let’s multiply it by 20k simultaneous downloaders.
The result is roughly 4.5 million illegal downloads. This is only an estimation, and I would say that’s rather on the optimistic side of things; as of today we have sold over 1M legal copies, so having only 4.5-5 illegal copies for each legal one would be not a bad ratio. The reality is probably way worse.

From the CEO of CD-PROJEKKT. http://www.rpgwatch....ead.php?t=15547

[Finwik]

Yeah, don't support piracy, and don't give them an excuse to lock the topic.

I will just do without me3, sadly. Man. ;_;

[DTKT]

Moondoggie wrote...

photographerleia wrote...


Because the retail product (which is what I WOULD be buying) requires downloading the Origin client as well.  You would expect using the client is you bought the game from the Origin Store.  Having to install the client when you buy retail, however, is unacceptable.

Same with Steam which is bundled with many retail versions of the most popular games out there. Why is it acceptable for Valve to do it and not EA?

Because EA has not a good history of supporting products. Because EA does not offer something similar to Steamworks. Because Origin should not the exist, why it exists is because EA wants to literally "own" you. It doesn not interact in any way, shape or form with ME3. It does not server as a Leaderboards, aggregator, it does not offer to sync my friend list with whatever game I'm playing. It doesn't offer a wide range of publishers and studios.

It does not offer Community features.

In a few words, it's a unsactifactory product that is forcebly bundled with games that it doesn't support.

[Nathander Von Eric]

Origin is required for all PC versions of ME3.

I'll buy a used copy of ME3 to play on the 360.

Of course that means I won't get to enjoy the best single player experience and I won't get to play the multiplayer because I won't buy an Online Pass to play.

I love your games Bioware. I'd love to buy a new copy to play on PC. But I will not support this business decision financially.

[fatalfeline]

Thankfully I doubt Origin is going to steal anything important from my computer, since I don't keep any in there. I started out getting ME2 on PS3 and even though I loved the game, it was obviously a shoddy port and Microsoft wouldn't let go of their rights to ME1 so I could have the full experience on PS3. I don't want a 360. With the exception of the ME series, I can find all the games on 360 I want to play on PS3. So in order to get the full experience as bug-free as possible, I got the series on PC. I NEVER do PC gaming. And walking into a clusterfrak like this kind of cements my aversion to PC gaming. I don't think Origin is going to compromise me, but I think I'm going to stick to console gaming after ME3 comes out. I'm sorry such a great series had to fall into the hands of EA and Microsoft.

Modifié par fatalfeline, 15 janvier 2012 - 03:19 .

[goofyomnivore]

Black Ops sold around 8-10 million copies, it had an estimated 4-5 million pirated.

2:1

TW2 from their CEO suggested a 4-5:1 on the optimistic side.

[Ryzaki]

strive wrote...

MI: There are no stats available, but let’s make a quick calculation. I was checking regularly the number of concurrent downloads on torrent aggregating sites, and for the first 6-8 weeks there was around 20-30k ppl downloading it at the same time. Let’s take 20k as the average and let’s take 6 weeks. The game is 14GB, so let’s assume that on an average not-too-fast connection it will be 6 hours of download. 6 weeks is 56 days, which equals to 1344 hours; and with 6h of average download time to get the game it would give us 224 downloads, then let’s multiply it by 20k simultaneous downloaders.
The result is roughly 4.5 million illegal downloads. This is only an estimation, and I would say that’s rather on the optimistic side of things; as of today we have sold over 1M legal copies, so having only 4.5-5 illegal copies for each legal one would be not a bad ratio. The reality is probably way worse.

From the CEO of CD-PROJEKKT. http://www.rpgwatch....ead.php?t=15547

*facepalms*

I could get higher numbers doing the exact same thing for BF3.

As for blackops. Pretty sure if we used the method he used we'd get much higher numbers than that 5 mill.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 janvier 2012 - 03:19 .

[Marionetten]

strive wrote...

From the CEO of CD-PROJEKKT. http://www.rpgwatch....ead.php?t=15547

He plainly states that there are no stats available in the very first line.

[MustOnen]

 Inb4 ME3 becomes the most pirated game of 2012.
Shame EA didn't learn anything from Spore.

Modifié par MustOnen, 15 janvier 2012 - 03:19 .

[Rockworm503]

Ponendus wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

Ponendus wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

sooo here's another thing I'm not understanding...

discussion of piracy is not allowed.....understandable

Endorsing piracy also not allowed and completely understandable

but Origin is going to inflate piracy (you know it is) if anything by doing something that is arguably just as morally reprehensible as piracy...sure two wrongs don't make a right and three rights make a left but how can we discuss this situation without pointing out the obvious fact that Origin is indeed going to make people want to pirate the game out is spite?

again not endorsing piracy...just saying that censoring people on the subject is going to add fuel to the fire....

But no DRM will also inflate piracy (The Witcher 2 proved it), so what is your solution? I still haven't seen one.

Thats because no one knows what the solution is.
The best way to get the maximum profit for ANYTHING though is to treat the people who WANT to buy your product with respect.
Microsoft doesn't treat their costumers with respect so I changed my mind when I planned on buying an Xbox 360 (hell sold my old original Xbox)
Valve, while not perfect seems to be treating me with respect I have no problem buying from them or buying a steam product.
If I go to the supermarket and the employees followed me around like they thought I already stole something why would I take my business there?
I want to buy ME3.  I want to support Bioware but my concious wont let me.

Why though? Why do you feel they are disrespecting you? They appear to me to be doing the best they can to protect their product, which is understandable. I understand you wanting to be treated with respect, so where is the disrespect?

The supermarket analogy is also not relevant. You can't go and download your bread and milk from a pirate.

Pissing all over my privacy rights =/= protecting their product.
This is like if Smiths put a new policy in their store where you had to agree to have someone follow you around the store and inspect everything you brought with you before you even step inside.
Why should I go through hoops to buy something?
how is it even practicle?  They already have a good product they already gave me a good reason to buy it how is that stopping piracy?
how?
it boggles the mind how some people think this is stopping it.
While you have all your employees following me around your store the real shoplifters have already came in pocketted what they wanted and left.  Watching the person who wants to buy isn't just the wrong way to go about it its insulting to think it is.