5521 réponses à ce sujet

[Chris Readman]

Ponendus wrote...

Chris Readman wrote...

I do not see why EA cannot just suck it up and agree to the terms, especially considering the fact that they are not forced to sell their DLC exclusively on Steam, they are still allowed to have their own DLC system. From my point of view, it looks like EA is the one being restrictive and not allowing customers to have the ability to choose where they want to get their DLC.

Isn't there a profit issue though? I mean, if a DLC costs say $5 to purchase, how much of that goes to Valve if you buy through Steam? If you buy directly from EA don't they get the whole amount? If we are talking about $5 here, they probably would want to get as much of that as possible. Just a thought, I tend to be a bit sceptical of Valve with this, I mean for all we know their 'fee' that they take out may be $3, if that is the case don't you think that's a little unfair?

Yes, that is true, and that is something that has been discussed as well. I believe that the number thrown around is 30%.

But think of it this way, look at how many people flatout refuse to purchase Mass Effect 3 just because of the Origin requirement. That is a loss in profit just based on the game sales right there, along with any chance of future profits from DLC.

Again, I reiterate that Steam is not demanding exclusivity, just the option to sell the DLC from their storefront. EA is still allowed to use their own methods of selling the DLC on top of using Steam as another alternative. By making their product available on multiple fronts, they may not be able to retain the amount of profit per sale that they wanted, but with more sales in general, they are likely to make more revenue in general. Top this off with the fact that Bioware has been using this obscure and inconvenient DLC
page that one has to go out of the way to find (with some annoying points system as well), while putting their DLC on Steam will provide
another front of advertising. Does it not look like they are making an unwise business decision here?

Now on a more reactionary and emotional response level, the fact that EA is so concerned with their profits instead of providing what is more beneficial for consumers, does that not bother you? It certainly bothers me. It just tells me that EA (maybe Bioware as well) is only concerned with making the most money, even at the expense of the consumer.

[Ponendus]

Adugan wrote...

Actually it is up to EA to disprove it. It IS their product that is getting hit, isnt it? 

Well, actually I don't think its very reasonable to ask a company to spend time and resources on disproving every conspiracy theory that comes their way. If EA were really stealing and using people's personal information that would be a business-breaking scandal, the very fact that they aren't doing anything actually reassures me more that it is probably being blown out of proportion.

I am an 'innocent until proven guilty' man. Still haven't seen any satisfactory evidence to even remotely lean me towards the EA = guilty verdict.

[lostincspace]

With respect to everyone, the whole debate over Origin seems overwrought and a bit silly.  I can certainly understand why some might prefer to not to use Origin, but it is a DRM and distribution platform, not spyware. It is wholly unfair to single out EA or Bioware for a lashing in the court of public opinion, considering.

If you object to its presence in Mass Effect and other games, you may as well abandon PC games entirely.  Windows itself has embedded DRM and sends data to Microsoft every 90 days:

"For machines running Windows 7, data is collected after the Update to Windows Activation Technologies for Windows 7 has been installed. In addition, data is collected and sent to Microsoft every 90 days even if no activation exploit is detected. However, if the Update to Windows Activation Technologies for Windows 7 finds that essential Windows files have been tampered with, then data collected from that machine will be sent every 7 days until Windows becomes genuine." -- http://windows.micro...ivacy-statement

Oddly enough, no one screams about that, nor threatens to boycott Microsoft Windows. 

I agree that DRM can occasionally be troublesome, but compared to other solutions Origin is a lot less annoying than Sony's SecureROM, for example.  Origin isn't difficult to remove or crashes Windows. 

If DRM has to be in commercial software, I think I'll take Origin.  EA has been honest about it from the start, and they did amend it when customers raised concerns last year.

Modifié par lostincspace, 15 janvier 2012 - 08:48 .

[Adugan]

Ponendus wrote...

Adugan wrote...

Actually it is up to EA to disprove it. It IS their product that is getting hit, isnt it? 

Well, actually I don't think its very reasonable to ask a company to spend time and resources on disproving every conspiracy theory that comes their way. If EA were really stealing and using people's personal information that would be a business-breaking scandal, the very fact that they aren't doing anything actually reassures me more that it is probably being blown out of proportion.

I am an 'innocent until proven guilty' man. Still haven't seen any satisfactory evidence to even remotely lean me towards the EA = guilty verdict.

All EA is saying is "we didnt do it, not us". They havent really proved anything either. If a thief is denying a charge of theft, would you believe them? They have to do something other than peddle PR BS for me to even consider trusting them again.

[Adain878]

I tend to agree about not judging Origin based on troll hype but sadly I've bit the bullet and tried it with BF3 and my god was it a horrible experience. Common sense would dictate that if you want to try and compete with steam you would provide a better experience or offer something steam doesn't. Origin doesn't come close on either of those points.

[DarthSliver]

Ok the most reasonable argument i seen to not wanting Origins is that it does the same crap as Steam, which most already have, and they dont want basically the same time of program thats for 2 different companies on their PC meaning that its taking up space. But the argument to not wanting spyware on their PC I just dont see it holding up because many have said its exactly like Steam and many of you have used Steam. So from that logic you already have a form of Spyware on your computer. So I think the people who dont want the same type of program that does the same thing as the one they already have hold more weight for not wanting Origins or being against it.

But what do I know about PC stuff, I play on consoles.

[elitecom]

Zannana wrote...

Because I have had enough with the following arguments:
1) We do not want Origin invading our computers, yes we realise that the EULA and Origin itself has changed since the Germany incident but nothing stops them from changing back in the future.

That is very true. Origin scans its own folder now, but what's keeping it from changing back to scanning other folders as it did before? That would require trust on EA's part, and giving them any trust after Origin had already scanned other folders before, isn't all that likely. If EA wants Origin to be a viable competitor to Steam, then they should at least offer the same set options. If the consumer wants to help EA then they should do it out of their own free will. Allow for an opt out feature that disables all Origin scanning on your computer. Instead of the consumer being directed and controlled like some helpless animal. 

Let scanning be on the consumer's terms.  

[Akka le Vil]

You just lost a sale.
I boycott Steam, it's not to install the exact same crap from EA.

And trying to act all innocent "no, really, why would you think Origin is a spyware ?" is really disgusting.

Modifié par Akka le Vil, 15 janvier 2012 - 08:48 .

[Dariustwinblade]

I guess piracy is an option too.

[Eddard111]

Another pre-order cancelled.

[Eivea]

Is DLC going to be handled through Origin as well? Because besides the other problems with the service mentioned in this thread, it also happens to be ripping off everyone in the EU with its $1 = 1€ policy.

Here is a screenshot for refference:

Modifié par Eivea, 15 janvier 2012 - 08:49 .

[Adain878]

heres a thought DarthSliver. As far as companies goes, based on past actions and such. Who would you trust more.

EA

or

Valve

That sums up a lot of the rage that comes from Origin I think.

[MaverikCH]

For me that means: wait until EA and Valve come up with an agreement or something. i really wonder what kind of dlc terms of service EA is not willing to agree with. on the other hand: with ME2 DLCs were not available over Steam and had to be downloaded over bioware social. or does the updae of ToS forbid this now? and there goes a support case on steam too ^^

[Ponendus]

Chris Readman wrote...

Yes, that is true, and that is something that has been discussed as well. I believe that the number thrown around is 30%.

Ok, well that's quite a large amount, I can see why that would annoy EA.

Chris Readman wrote...

But think of it this way, look at how many people flatout refuse to purchase Mass Effect 3 just because of the Origin requirement. That is a loss in profit just based on the game sales right there, along with any chance of future profits from DLC.

Yes I know what you mean, but those people are refusing to purchase based on potentially highly incorrect information. As a business 'giving in' to that would mean that every fad hate campaign on the internet could result in users holding the business to ransom. I don't think EA should give in to that. Now if there is proof they are doing the wrong thing and the purchase refusals are legitimate and reasonable, then that is a different story. But currently there is no proof of that.

Chris Readman wrote...

Again, I reiterate that Steam is not demanding exclusivity, just the option to sell the DLC from their storefront. EA is still allowed to use their own methods of selling the DLC on top of using Steam as another alternative. By making their product available on multiple fronts, they may not be able to retain the amount of profit per sale that they wanted, but with more sales in general, they are likely to make more revenue in general.

Possibly. However I am certain they would have done the 'math' on that prior to making their decision. If they really believed that they would be losing significant amounts of money, I suspect the decision would have been different. We can only really speculate until we see statistics on that though.

Chris Readman wrote...

Now on a more reactionary and emotional response level, the fact that EA is so concerned with their profits instead of providing what is more beneficial for consumers, does that not bother you? It certainly bothers me. It just tells me that EA (maybe Bioware as well) is only concerned with making the most money, even at the expense of the consumer.

I am actually ok with that. My loyalties lie with BioWare, I acknowledge that EA is in fact a company that is concerned with profits. i have no poetic ideals that a corporation like that cares about me as a person. So unfortunately no, that doesn't bother me at all. On the contrary I think that the more money EA receives from BioWare game sales, the more likely they will commission them to do more projects, and they are my favourite studio, so I say more power to them.

Thanks for a nice reasonable response on this forum though, your thoughts are good to consider.

[Ponendus]

Adain878 wrote...

I tend to agree about not judging Origin based on troll hype but sadly I've bit the bullet and tried it with BF3 and my god was it a horrible experience. .

What was the experience? I'm interested to know.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Adain878 wrote...

I tend to agree about not judging Origin based on troll hype but sadly I've bit the bullet and tried it with BF3 and my god was it a horrible experience. Common sense would dictate that if you want to try and compete with steam you would provide a better experience or offer something steam doesn't. Origin doesn't come close on either of those points.

If you try Origin and quality is not in the service , then that's a good reason not buy(I wouldn't).But all Orgin's is used for is multiplayer(which most don't care about) and a one time activation of the product.If it's because it's not on steam , I'm fine with that too.

I more against this video that people have bought into as proof positive and have decided they won't purchase ME3 on origins because of what may prove to be a hoax to damage Bioware and EA.

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 15 janvier 2012 - 08:53 .

[Ponendus]

elitecom wrote...

That is very true. Origin scans its own folder now, but what's keeping it from changing back to scanning other folders as it did before?

Ok, but if you take that stance, when does it end? The consumer is upset, so you change it and make it better, and the consumer is still upset. Is there anything a company can do to assure you it is doing the right thing? It seems your standards are extremely high. I don't think I would boycott something on the possibility that something may happen that might upset me at a point in the future. If I did that I would be boycotting everything.

[Lumikki]

Ponendus wrote...

Ok fair enough. I just have one question. Exactly what is the breach of privacy, I genuinely don't understand this. Has it actually been proven that there is a breach, or is it just a rumour? I just am confused because Chris Priestly stated that it is not Origin but a Windows process that is searching or whatever for its own purposes. I would just really like some clarification on exactly what the objection is?

Any information what is send out of my computer to game company without my permission is no acceptable. That means I consider EVERYTING from my graphics resolution to anything else as private matter. Problem here is like there is a lot of people who doesn't understand our conserns. I'm fine by that, because everyone can choose them self how PRIVATE they want to be. But that company doesn't respect OUR privacy enough to ask permission about it when asked here, that's not acceptable.

I could ask same question other ways. What gives the company right to collect ANY data from my computer wihtout my permission and sent it into they company. IF I just play single player game in my OWN computer?

Modifié par Lumikki, 15 janvier 2012 - 08:58 .

[Adugan]

Ponendus wrote...

elitecom wrote...

That is very true. Origin scans its own folder now, but what's keeping it from changing back to scanning other folders as it did before?

Ok, but if you take that stance, when does it end? The consumer is upset, so you change it and make it better, and the consumer is still upset. Is there anything a company can do to assure you it is doing the right thing? It seems your standards are extremely high. I don't think I would boycott something on the possibility that something may happen that might upset me at a point in the future. If I did that I would be boycotting everything.

EA hasnt made any goodwill gesture, which is what I am personally waiting for. They just reworded the EULA to mean the same thing and patched Origin for now. They could be waiting for it to blow over to try again.

[Mister Mida]

Akka le Vil wrote...

I boycott Steam, it's not to install the exact same crap from EA.

Same here. If this crap continues, sooner or later every big publisher wants its own distribution client, dividing the PC platform into sub platforms.

[elitecom]

Ponendus wrote...

elitecom wrote...

That is very true. Origin scans its own folder now, but what's keeping it from changing back to scanning other folders as it did before?

Ok, but if you take that stance, when does it end? The consumer is upset, so you change it and make it better, and the consumer is still upset. Is there anything a company can do to assure you it is doing the right thing? It seems your standards are extremely high. I don't think I would boycott something on the possibility that something may happen that might upset me at a point in the future. If I did that I would be boycotting everything.

I actually wrote a very viable solution to the problem. Just allow for an opt out of all Origin scanning of your computer. Just as in Steam. Let the consumer decide if it wants to help EA with its "market research". Much of the comparisons between Origin and Steam comes down to just that. Steam offers an opt out, Origin doesn't.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Ponendus wrote...

elitecom wrote...

That is very true. Origin scans its own folder now, but what's keeping it from changing back to scanning other folders as it did before?

Ok, but if you take that stance, when does it end? The consumer is upset, so you change it and make it better, and the consumer is still upset. Is there anything a company can do to assure you it is doing the right thing? It seems your standards are extremely high. I don't think I would boycott something on the possibility that something may happen that might upset me at a point in the future. If I did that I would be boycotting everything.

I'm not against boycotting because you hate a service , that too is also acceptable.I'm just not for unfounded slander against when their isn't any proof which in turn has cost a company sells.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

elitecom wrote...

Ponendus wrote...

elitecom wrote...

That is very true. Origin scans its own folder now, but what's keeping it from changing back to scanning other folders as it did before?

Ok, but if you take that stance, when does it end? The consumer is upset, so you change it and make it better, and the consumer is still upset. Is there anything a company can do to assure you it is doing the right thing? It seems your standards are extremely high. I don't think I would boycott something on the possibility that something may happen that might upset me at a point in the future. If I did that I would be boycotting everything.

I actually wrote a very viable solution to the problem. Just allow for an opt out of all Origin scanning of your computer. Just as in Steam. Let the consumer decide if it wants to help EA with its "market research". Much of the comparisons between Origin and Steam comes down to just that. Steam offers an opt out, Origin doesn't.

Sounds good to me , EA probaly won't do it but you never know.

Modifié par LOST SPARTANJLC, 15 janvier 2012 - 08:58 .

[Ponendus]

Lumikki wrote...

Ponendus wrote...

Ok fair enough. I just have one question. Exactly what is the breach of privacy, I genuinely don't understand this. Has it actually been proven that there is a breach, or is it just a rumour? I just am confused because Chris Priestly stated that it is not Origin but a Windows process that is searching or whatever for its own purposes. I would just really like some clarification on exactly what the objection is?

Any information what is send out of my computer to game company without my permission is no acceptable. That means I consider EVERYTING from my graphics resolution to anything else as private matter. Problem here is like there is a lot of people who doesn't understand our conserns. I'm fine by that, because everyone can choose them self how PRIVATE they want to be. But that company doesn't respect OUR privacy enough to make question about it, that's not acceptable.

I could ask same question other ways. What gives the company right to collect ANY data from my computer and sent it into they company. IF I just play single player game in my OWN computer?

That's fine, that is your personal choice. That is a different matter entirely. I only hope that the choice is based on actual evidence as opposed to hysteria. I personally have not seen anything that solidifies that the collection happens at all, have you? If you don't need to and are happy to miss out on a good game due to trusting the loud noise of internet forum-goers then that is absolutely your choice, I can't argue with that.

Also, I am ok with them collecting data if they mention they are doing so in the terms of sale or whatever. It then becomes my choice as to what my personal privacy standards are.

[Adain878]

Lets see, I preordered BF3 after some thought on the matter. Wasn't going to but decided to give them a benefit of a doubt, DICE had done some good work and deserved it. I had issues with a corrupt install and the game itself not authenticating.

So after I believe 4 reinstalls, 3 days of waiting on a response from customer service only to get an automated response completely not related to my problem, 2 more days for a response I was finally able to play.

So ya, first experience was far from pleasant.

Now lets look at valve. A few years ago I had an issue with a stolen credit card at a bad time, CC company ended up doing a charge back on a game I purchased before It was stolen. My account ends up locked. It took one email and 24 hours to get that fixed.