5521 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Docjam wrote...

PDesign wrote...

Saberdark wrote...

@PDesign
That's not proof. Just because they have the right to do something doesn't mean they actually do it.

I just wanted to point this post out again, for the people claiming Origin is not spyware.  Note the directories it is scanning is NOT the origin folder, and note that it is DOING ALL OF THESE SCANS IN UNDER A MINUTE, EVERY MINUTE.

That's scanning, not sending information.  Huge difference.  That is also, if I'm correct, an older version of Origin.  It's acceptable for a program to scan through to look for key hits in files, which is what Origin does.  I also see that those are software/hardware that it is scanning through, which is perfectly acceptable as well.  Now if you have proof that Origin is sending out that specific information that is identifiable to you and personal (photos, taxes, etc) that would be another case.  But all you have is images of a scanning process.  

EA claiming Origin is not spyware on their latest EULA means that it isn't.  If it were to be found otherwise, they could be in a large spot of trouble.  

I'm not trying to be pro/anti-Origin; I'm just trying to be objective.  And what I see is a lot of jumping the gun, making assumptions with out-of-context information, and just a lot of narrow thought.  

Yes you are correct that is an old version. As others have stated above on page 134 what does now.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 janvier 2012 - 03:54 .

[tj987654321]

Lumikki wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...

Now if you actually read both of these statements, you
will most likely say that Origin IS monitoring more information than Steam.
However, if you look closely at the "Aggregate information” sentence in
Steam’s Private Policy, it is actually vaguely stating the same exact thing as
Origin’s policy.

Now I am not supporting the fact that ME3 will be an Origin exclusive; I
actually would prefer it to be on both Steam and in stores to increase
competition in pricing. However, why in the world would I give up on the series
just because it is an Origin exclusive?

I don't know what to say.

1. People who are fine by both Steam and Origin.
 - These people has no issues at all

2. People who are fine by Steam, but not Origin.
- These people has some issues.
 -- They would rather have all they games in same digital distribution software
 -- They don't like the data collection, that it can't be avoided in Origin, while Steam allows it.

3. People who don't like/use Steam or Origin
 - There people has a lot of issues, because principles
 -- They don't want to use any digital distribution softwares.
 -- They are very carefull about they privacy and security

Thank you for bringing up some valid points.However, as I said in my
post, I would definitely prefer it to be available in retail stores and
on Steam.

On your section 3, you forgot one major detail;
internet access. I currently live in a rural area without DSL, so I am
stuck on Mobile Broadband with only 10 GB A MONTH. Most of you could not fathom the horror of having this limitation. This requires me to bring my laptop to a friend's house in order to download my games.

Getting
back on topic, If you played Mass Effect 2 on PC, your most likely
already linked it to your EA Account when it asked you for your email
and password. Origin is essentially doing the same exact thing because
it ties the game to your account.  You can still buy the game in store
and install the game without having to download it, same as games that
do not use Steam or Origin. The only difference is that Origin ties the
game to your account without you having to enter the information
manually.

[Killjoy Cutter]

"Old version" behavior, combined with the EULA, makes this whole thing about the "new version" being "better behaved" meaningless.

[crimzontearz]

 penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/piracy






once again with feeling, repetita juvant

Modifié par crimzontearz, 15 janvier 2012 - 03:57 .

[Ryzaki]

Docjam wrote...

Zannana wrote...

the damage has been done. The trust is broken.

This is so huge to me.  It doesn't matter how much the EULA changes, it doesn't matter how much the program changes.  Trust has been violated and I am not going to just look past that.  I never had any real trust in EA to begin with, but I'm certainly not going to start now after I've seen such a brazen violation of privacy, no matter that it may have been an older version of the client under a different EULA.  The fact that it COULD do that, and EA WOULD do that, at any point in time, makes them as trustworthy as a known sex offender living next door to your house.  He may be claiming to be reformed now, but are you going to trust your children around him alone?

Origin = Deal Breaker.

END OF THE LINE

This is where I'm kind of wavering to be honest.

[Mister Mida]

crimzontearz wrote...

 penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/piracy





once again with feeling, repetita juvant

Fix the link.

[Mclouvins]

What's sort of ironic is that the image people keep posting with Origin scanning probably reveals more private information than the program ever did.

[Killjoy Cutter]

strive wrote...

I left Origin running while I slept 4-5 hours with Process Monitor on. I spent like 90mins going through it all (92% events showed). I don't think it can reach 100%

It didn't once go outside of the root of C:Program Files (x86)Origin that I could see I'm human though and could of missed a section where it found all my dark and nasty secrets. I figured it would of hunted down the Dead Space 1 and 2 I just bought on Steam but no evidence of that to be seen.

I have opted out of EA data sharing on the EA profile. That you can do here; http://profile.ea.com if that makes any difference.

While I'm at work I'm going to opt into Steam data sharing to see which folders it scans and what it does, so I have a better idea what to look for I guess.

Origin's digging around has gone far and wide outside that narrow scope in the past.

The EULA makes it clear that EA can change Origin's behavior at any time, with no notice. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 15 janvier 2012 - 04:00 .

[crimzontearz]

Mister Mida wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
 penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/piracy

once again with feeling, repetita juvant

Fix the link.

can't

copy and paste please....I'm not sure why bb code is not working for me

[Dragoonlordz]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

"Old version" behavior, combined with the EULA, makes this whole thing about the "new version" being "better behaved" meaningless.

A guy stabs someone in street, years later after being locked away when comes out; for rest of his life he never stabs anyone again. The point > Just because the old version wasn't perfect and did something doesn't mean new versions will. Thats where your lack of trust comes in and element of possible paranoia "once bitten, twice shy". But thats your personal issue on whether you trust them or not. However it does not make it factual that will do again.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 janvier 2012 - 04:02 .

[Ryzaki]

crimzontearz wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
 penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/piracy

once again with feeling, repetita juvant

Fix the link.

can't

copy and paste please....I'm not sure why bb code is not working for me

Here the fixed version.

http://www.penny-arc.../episode/piracy

Modifié par Ryzaki, 15 janvier 2012 - 04:01 .

[ArkkAngel007]

strive wrote...

And what I see is a lot of jumping the gun, making assumptions with out-of-context information, and just a lot of narrow thought.

You must not post on here very much that is the norm. It is like saying the sky is blue or rain makes you wet.

I do, and I was a long time lurker in the Baldur Gate/KOTOR/ME1 days.  It just still never ceases to amaze me.

[lampak]

Origin doesn't spy, it only checks if you're not a pirate... Sure...

What gets on my nerve is that again, we honest PC gamers, who pay for games instead of stealing them, are going to be the ones who are treated like thieves, whose every single move must be watched, every single file on the computer must be scanned and possibly sent to EA to check if we didn't stab their back.

Pirates will play cracked, Origin-free ME3 before its release, as always.

In real world it would be equivalent to putting guards before your front door who would check every guest's ID, fetch their criminal record, ask about their annual income and so on - at the same time when your house is being looted by a bunch of thieves who have broken in through your unprotected kitchen window.

Modifié par lampak, 15 janvier 2012 - 04:05 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

"Old version" behavior, combined with the EULA, makes this whole thing about the "new version" being "better behaved" meaningless.

A guy stabs someone in street, years later after being locked away when comes out; for rest of his life he never stabs anyone again. Just because the old version wasn't perfect and did something doesn't mean new versions will. Thats where your lack of trust comes in and element of possible paranoia "once bitten, twice shy". But thats your personal issue on whether you trust them or not however it does not make it factual that will do again.

It's not about proving they will, it's about the fact that they tried to once, and they could again. 

I'm not letting that guy stand behind me holding a knife no matter how much he claims to have "made a mistake".

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

abaris wrote...

Mhh, all other concerns aside - so you willingly bloat your computer with all kinds of processes?

If you're a PC user, you should know how to write a Powershell of batch file that will shutdown the services you're afraid of and kill the processes you don't like.  It's pretty easy.    Don't ever forget why we get PCs...  We have a thousand times more control over them than consoles.

[ArkkAngel007]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

Docjam wrote...

PDesign wrote...

Saberdark wrote...

@PDesign
That's not proof. Just because they have the right to do something doesn't mean they actually do it.

I just wanted to point this post out again, for the people claiming Origin is not spyware.  Note the directories it is scanning is NOT the origin folder, and note that it is DOING ALL OF THESE SCANS IN UNDER A MINUTE, EVERY MINUTE.

That's scanning, not sending information.  Huge difference.  That is also, if I'm correct, an older version of Origin.  It's acceptable for a program to scan through to look for key hits in files, which is what Origin does.  I also see that those are software/hardware that it is scanning through, which is perfectly acceptable as well.  Now if you have proof that Origin is sending out that specific information that is identifiable to you and personal (photos, taxes, etc) that would be another case.  But all you have is images of a scanning process.  

EA claiming Origin is not spyware on their latest EULA means that it isn't.  If it were to be found otherwise, they could be in a large spot of trouble.  

I'm not trying to be pro/anti-Origin; I'm just trying to be objective.  And what I see is a lot of jumping the gun, making assumptions with out-of-context information, and just a lot of narrow thought.  

Yes you are correct that is an old version. As others have stated above on page 134 what does now.

Ok thanks for the confirmation.  It's hard to look for specific things in threads as large as this.

[anzolino]

casadechrisso wrote...
Not directly, because EA does not listen. But let me sum up what happened to the best of my knowledge in Germany:

1. BF3 requires Origin, players start to complain.

2. A major game magazine picks up the uproar and lets a lawyer read through the EULA, who then states the whole thing violates German laws, and not just a little bit but almost every single line in it. The game mag publishes.

2a.) (edited in for completition) The Origin client is constantly monitored for spyware behaviorby the community, with mixed results, some claim it spies, some claim it does not, the current client apparently behaves quite "normal" while older versions showed more intrusive behavior.
But this has not been the issue, the issue had always been the rights EA granted themselves in the EULA and denied the customer, which you MUST accept to play. Most of these things you can still read up in the current international EULAs.

3. More outcry in the gaming community, thanks to the article now even outside the BF3 community. It's getting loud enough so some mainstream media picks it up, even the biggest news magazines. That's where the miracle started, because gaming topics are usually nothing big media talks about unless someone got shot again and "killer games" are blamed for it, but this one even got headlines.

4. Even main TV news picks up the topic. Really bad image loss for EA who now starts reacting slowly.

5. Due to media coverage, consumer organizations/consumer protection authorities send questionaires to EA, leading to more pressure. EA starts changing the EULA multiple times.

6. EA invites selected community members, bloggers, game mag journalists to a meeting in their german headquarters, for an open discussion with high ranking EA people. The discussion was considered fruitful on both sides.

7. Apparently mainly thanks to 4/5/6, German customers get a special treatment now with an EULA that doesn't violate german laws anymore, see original post by Chris Priestly, point 7.


So let me sum that up to: There is a very good chance that enough community anger will change things. But do not expect EA to listen to you directly, they will listen once threatened with an image loss (= loss in sales), which means mainstream media coverage.

Not exactly. We started complain long before BF3 was released, end of August/beginning of September. At this time the data protection office responsable for EA Cologne was informed and started dealing with the case. Additionally to that the consumer protection office was informed and they also started to look at this, they even wanted to go to court if EA does'nt change something. So, the latest changes that have been made due to them. The German community outrage (i.e. the Amazon 1 star) was a big help, but not the only reason that EA has changed EULA and Origin. Frankly I doubt that anything major changes would have been made by EA without the alertness of the officials.
The community met EA in Cologne in beginning of December but despite new ordered documents there is nothing happend so far. To my knowledge none of the requirements has been fulfilled now. On the contrary, EA was the first website published a test result of one our IT magazines that pointed out Origin is no spyware. But this test was not completely accomplished. They only check Origin.exe, not Setup.exe. The don't check other folders out of Application Data. They don't check the encrypted traffic, because it wasn't necessary. Uhm, what? Not only myself wanted to know which data were in the encrypted stream.

So far I didn't found the changes for the German EULA in the English version. That's make me sad, because all non-German users will be still traped.

[Incognito JC]

crimzontearz wrote...

can't

copy and paste please....I'm not sure why bb code is not working for me

God, people, that is a simple cut and paste to fix the link.

Edit: Damn it Ryzaki, stop ninja-ing me

I went to sleep at page 110, now it's only 30+? This really has slowed down.

Also, for those people that says Origin doesn't scan anything outside of their folder now, don't you get the fact that they did so before? They breached the trust of the consumers, it's not so easy to redeem that. They also have the right to change the EULA as they see fit, no guarantee they won't revert back to what they did before, once this crapstorm is over.

Modifié par Incognito JC, 15 janvier 2012 - 04:04 .

[Zannana]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

El Neebre wrote...

Well thankfully I won't need to worry about that.

No-one is asking anyone to be worried, who knows what Origin client is.
Everyone should make they own choices, that's what freedom of choice is.

How ever, people who does mind, doens't have any other choices than say good bye for all Origin client only games. That's not so good thing. How ever, it seems that it's acceptable for EA to lose us as customers.

There is no way to please everyone and no company will do so all of the time. Hell pick random half dozen people on here and put them in room then throw a small list of half a dozen topics and they will argue about something during that time. I have no problem when people use their freedom to not buy a game if they are offended but I have no patience for those who steal a copy which in turn throughout time has been the sole (main) reason DRM has got so much worse over the years and they are a major part of the problem. So if going to boycot bascially a game and buy something else or just don't buy or steal it then fair enough. However in the end the only person who will be hurt by such is the customer and possibly Bioware because EA will not fade away, Origin which is their goal will not fade away; EA has so many sources of income even if ME3 does not do well it won't really hurt them that much. Which ofcourse won't happen in first place pre-orders are still going up by thousands each week with still 9 weeks to go.

Having principles is good but privacy by nature is one of the most selfish of all principles as it solely relies on the status of  "all about me" as opposed to having a principle about child abuse or starving african childen etc. Also unfortuantly whenever we get such issues appear on BSN whether about Origin, femshep voting or Liara figurines we end up with so many just using huff and bluff that it is hard for most people to take it seriously the very few who stick to their convictions because they are drowned out by the ones who use the "huff and bluff" tactic instead. Lets also remember the fact life isn't eternal you and me and everyone else will kick the bucket at some point and when that happens whether from cancer, hit by bus or best case scenario old age ... What difference does it make whether or not you had Origin installed to play a game that you may have enjoyed. The enjoyment should come first because life is short and it is better to have spent it less angry and bitter and having more enjoyment playing or doing the things that entertained and enjoyed.

People are free to do as they wish but I for one will not punish myself (it will not punish EA whether or not you buy ME3 given their huge income for more than just Bioware or especially ME3 and there will be more orders of ME3 in the millions then the number of those who do cancel theirs in protest) by boycotting what could be the best game of 2012. Origin is installed on mine just like Steam and I will be playing it and enjoying the game while at same time rewarding Bioware for putting vast effort and time into making such amazing title with my purchases. 

THIS...it's...I can't...Its so naive it makes me cry.
Yes, selfish people want privacy, that is the gist of it and ignore larger issues. *sarcasm*
Yes we will all die one day so letting Origin into our computer is a lesser event. But (to not derail the conversation I will only adress the Origin issue) buy accepting Origin (and Steam for that matter) we show the corporations that we are okay with anything as long as we get to play a game. And a few years from now all games will require such applications and constant internet connection. Well no, we are the consumers, we buy the product we should have a say  on what we want to spend our money on.

[goofyomnivore]

The EULA makes it clear that EA can change Origin's behavior at any time, with no notice.

Elaborate? I didn't see anything in the EULA that indicated that. I could of overlooked it though. The closest I got was the auto-update bit, but still you accept the new eula/terms everytime it auto updates manually. It doesn't 'sneak' by you.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Docjam wrote...

PDesign wrote...

Saberdark wrote...

@PDesign
That's not proof. Just because they have the right to do something doesn't mean they actually do it.

I just wanted to point this post out again, for the people claiming Origin is not spyware.  Note the directories it is scanning is NOT the origin folder, and note that it is DOING ALL OF THESE SCANS IN UNDER A MINUTE, EVERY MINUTE.

These are from before the EULA changed are they not?

So what? 

They retain the "right" to change the EULA at any moment, and your only recourse is to accept it or stop usnig the associated software. 

They retain the "right" to change Origin at any moment, without notice. 

The older behavior of Origin and the older EULA make EA's intent here clear.  As with Facebook, they will continue trying to get away with violating your privacy and security.

[The_11thDoctor]

As of yesterday, bioware officially stated origin WILL be required to play it on all versions of PC copies whether digital or physical. 1 time check for single player, constant connection DRM for multiplayer... NOT GETTING ON PC NOW.... Looks like PS3 is the only option if origin still isnt required for it.

http://kotaku.com/58...launch-on-steam

[Incognito JC]

aang001 wrote...

As of yesterday, bioware officially stated origin WILL be required to play it on all versions of PC copies whether digital or physical. 1 time check for single player, constant connection DRM for multiplayer... NOT GETTING ON PC NOW.... Looks like PS3 is the only option if origin still isnt required for it.

http://kotaku.com/58...launch-on-steam

Kotaku got their information from page 1 of this thread. At least bother reading the OP before posting <_<

[tj987654321]

crimzontearz wrote...

tj987654321 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
please point out where I insulted him or demeaned him TJ.....my comment about his broken English is factual. And if YOU do not understand the difference between steam and origin....well then you just need to read and comprehend some more

Trust me, I know it is factual; I have been reading through DragoonLordz's

posts and they contain broken English. However, couldn't you find a

positive fact about your argument instead of attacking the integrity of DragoonLordz's opinions about Origin?

Maybe I do not truly know the differences between Steam and Origin.

From my experience, the only real differences I have noticed are that

Origin has EA exclusives and Steam has Valve exclusives.
In
regards of data collection, both services collect data for the simple

purposes of improving their products AND to check for legitimate copies

of their games.

I'm not being sarcastic, but am I missing something?
(Okay... why does it say smilie where I put a smilie face?)

Origin was caught scanning personal folders outside of its own on people's computers
you also are allowed to stop Steam's datamining but not origin's

also I merely said I was unphased by his views...which is by definition a neutral thing not a dispregiative one

Your opinion is essentially invalid because your post features broken English!

Just kidding! But see, it can be insulting!

From what I understand as far a data-mining is concerned,
Origin does scan the software within your computer as stated in the
private policy (Not limited to EA software). However, while I don't know
this for sure, I believe it does this to check for legitimate copies of
EA games outside of Origin's files.