5521 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Moondoggie wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

If  Valve give EA access to their own customers

What does that even mean? Can you tell me? Because I don't know.

Valve in Steam acts as a middle man managing everything. EA wants the right to provide patches and user content without going through a middle man for their games. 

They better stop making games for PS3 and Xbox then.

[Volus Warlord]

Incognito JC wrote...

Volus Warlord wrote...

You see, the relationship is like a big family.

We, the fans, are the children; with countless and diverse needs and desires.

Bioware, the developer, is the mother. A mother concerned with her children about as much as her reputation so she can adopt more.

EA, the publisher, is the molesting stepfather. He will set a rock bottom example and probably tell the children to go sell themselves at age 14. 

Oh, you.

?

[Pixieking]

Moondoggie wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

If  Valve give EA access to their own customers

What does that even mean? Can you tell me? Because I don't know.

Valve in Steam acts as a middle man managing everything. EA wants the right to provide patches and user content without going through a middle man for their games. 

Ah, right! Okay!

But:

"We are intent on providing Mass Effect to players with the best possible
experience no matter where they purchase or play their game"

is what Chris says in the first post of this thread. Yet I find my experience is not the best, since I have to download a good 2gb of Mass Effect 2 DLC from the BioWare store, as .exe files, when if their DLC were to be on Steam, it would automatically download.

So... They contradict themselves. They're not making it easier and better for me as the consumer by keeping their DLC off of Steam. They're making it more problematic everytime I want to download and install their games.

[JenMaxon]

Oh craptastic - I want the game but I don't want yet another game loader on my system, another account, another sign in, another ...

[Incognito JC]

Volus Warlord wrote...

?

Nothing. I just like the way you think.

[Elazul2k]

http://eacom.s3.amaz...gin_8.24.11.pdf 

Section 2, paragraph 2: 

"In addition to information that you give EA directly, EA collects nonpersonally identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as communicating with you.  The non-personally identifiable information that EA collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.  As noted above, this information is gathered periodically for purposes such as improving our products and services, troubleshooting bugs, and otherwise enhancing your user experience."

So, WHY oh WHY does EA consider my IP address non-identifiable? That is like saying my license plate can't identify who I am yet cops use it everyday to identify who a vehicle belongs too.

Also, we live in the world where things like Sony being hacked can occur. Even if Big Brother™ has the best of intentions while spying on us can we count of them to absolutely safeguard this data from all harm? I think NOT!

Good thing I already cancelled my pre-order or I would be doing it right now after reading the EULA closer.

[Butane9000]

Okay, I want to say something else.

I have used Steam since it's creation to replace the old WLAN system from Half-life. Since it's inception it was a complete system that they have only added to and upgraded over time. Yes, Valve scans your software. But unlike EA they only scan Valve titles such as Left 4 Dead and Half-Life. Valve does not scan your hardware, instead it asks you to do a scan and then asks for your permission to upload the results to Valve as a hardware survey. That is the difference between Valve and EA.

Valve has always respected and protected their customers privacy and understand what their platform (Steam) is capable of. While Steam and Origin both have to use a authorization check for each game unlike Steam where it is a one time only authorization where you launch, it checks then you play. On Origin if it crashes then you loose your connection to the game because EA has us constantly connected. Even Valve lets players play Team Fortress 2 if the Steam cloud goes down.

For those thinking Valve are entitled to what they charge publishers/developers this is true, but Valve being abusive with their fee's will only undo them and they know this. People (EA and some developers) say they have restrictive terms of service but the Valve and Steam terms of service is there to protect our privacy. I respect Valve for standing their ground and their word for not giving EA and other companies my information without my consent.

Now as for Origin, as EA's attempt to fight Steam is fully acceptable. These are businesses and they are entitled to do exactly as they please to better serve their customers. However EA's attempt has been weak and has angered a large portion of their customer base. Origin itself has had many issues at launch, core components did not work for me and I received no help in getting the grievances fixed.

I personally hate Origin and I only use it to play Battlefield 3. Once I am finished playing I shut Origin down and do not allow it to run in my systems background. I also have issues with it scanning games I have on steam and putting them into Origin without my permission just because it is an EA game. A friend of mine had this done with his Mass Effect 2 DLC.

Specifically he attempted to log into Steam and play Lair of the Shadow Broker and the game said because he launched it through Steam it could not validate it. However it worked fine on Origin. He managed to contact EA customer service to address the issue to which they said they weren't going to fix it until he threatened a lawsuit over the matter.

End of my rant:

EA has a right to conduct business as it see's fit. But by conducting their business in a way that is going to alienate customers is simply stupid. They have ignored the requests of their consumer base and moved forward with their platform (Origin) in it's incomplete state. If anyone says "Origin is complete your remark is... I'll use bologna" then all you need to do is open Origin and look at the top where it says Origin BETA.

[PSUHammer]

Emoking wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

If  Valve give EA access to their own customers

What does that even mean? Can you tell me? Because I don't know.

Valve doesn't want software companies to be able to release DLC outside of Steam.  If they do, Steam loses a cut of the profit.  EA wants to control DLC and other in app purchases as it is a nice revenue stream.  It is all about two big companies fighting over profit.

Not quite true... Valve is saying that all DLC for games it carries on Steam be carried by Steam. This is why you have Arkham City DLC for sale on Steam, but if you go back a couple of years, the only place to pick up the Minerva's Den DLC (for Bioshock 2) is G4WL, even though the base game is sold on Steam. It is actually supposed to make it better for the consumer, since they can purchase game and DLC in one place.

I will agree, though, that it comes down to fighting for profit in some amount.

We are talking about now...not a few years ago.  Valve has changed their policy and that is what EA is concerned with.  Not picking sides, that is just what it is.

[Mike Shepard]

_Guy_Fawkes_ wrote...

Mike Shepard wrote...

_Guy_Fawkes_ wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

_Guy_Fawkes_ wrote...
And with Origin - well, that's going way over the top. Forum bans, taking away access to games one has legitimately bought in the past. On-line passes to make selling a game harder etc..

Not Origin, thats EA not the client. That is your problem with EA and not the client specifically.

Ok then - how do I get this EA game (ME3) without Origin then? I see your point though.

you don't, unless you own a console.

True, but then I'd have to sign up there for some service by MS or Sony, or wouldn't I have to?  

See, I would like to be able to buy the game as a physical copy, install it and play it. In the case of a single player game, I do not see a requirement to go on-line or remain connected as other companies "demanded" it, had you chosen to buy their product.

To download patches to fix bugs, sure I'd visit their website and I'd simply be downloading them.

Regarding DLCs - well, that's like selling a non-complete game and wanting to milk the cash-cow over and over.

Just my 2 cents.

Actually, Xbox live has a free version, Xbox Live Silver, so there is that. And online for the PS3 is free. That aside, i share your viewpoints in general on DLC. The stuff that is pre-order bonuses is a cash cow move. the DLC that is released later is not so, because they have a different development cycle. and you dont need Xbox Live or Playstation network (or an online connection for that matter) to play Mass Effect 3 on the consoles. only need it for multiplayer. and I guess you may need it to download the pre-order bonuses.

anyway I play on the 360 anyway, and think it's better there because it was originally made for the console, but maybe thats just me.

[Pixieking]

Hammer6767 wrote...

We are talking about now...not a few years ago.  Valve has changed their policy and that is what EA is concerned with.  Not picking sides, that is just what it is.

Disingenuous answer.

No-one's picking sides.

I gave an example of Steam ToS before and after EA's removal of Dragon Age 2. That is all.

Modifié par Emoking, 15 janvier 2012 - 11:02 .

[Pkxm]

Elazul2k wrote...

http://eacom.s3.amaz...gin_8.24.11.pdf 

Section 2, paragraph 2: 

"In addition to information that you give EA directly, EA collects nonpersonally identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as communicating with you.  The non-personally identifiable information that EA collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.  As noted above, this information is gathered periodically for purposes such as improving our products and services, troubleshooting bugs, and otherwise enhancing your user experience."

So, WHY oh WHY does EA consider my IP address non-identifiable? That is like saying my license plate can't identify who I am yet cops use it everyday to identify who a vehicle belongs too.

Also, we live in the world where things like Sony being hacked can occur. Even if Big Brother™ has the best of intentions while spying on us can we count of them to absolutely safeguard this data from all harm? I think NOT!

Good thing I already cancelled my pre-order or I would be doing it right now after reading the EULA closer.

I'd like them to clarify what exactly they mean by Application usage, software, software usage. Do they just mean Origin? Or do they mean other apps too?

[Dragoonlordz]

Emoking wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

If  Valve give EA access to their own customers

What does that even mean? Can you tell me? Because I don't know.

Valve in Steam acts as a middle man managing everything. EA wants the right to provide patches and user content without going through a middle man for their games. 

Ah, right! Okay!

But:

"We are intent on providing Mass Effect to players with the best possible
experience no matter where they purchase or play their game"

is what Chris says in the first post of this thread. Yet I find my experience is not the best, since I have to download a good 2gb of Mass Effect 2 DLC from the BioWare store, as .exe files, when if their DLC were to be on Steam, it would automatically download.

So... They contradict themselves. They're not making it easier and better for me as the consumer by keeping their DLC off of Steam. They're making it more problematic everytime I want to download and install their games.

From one standpoint you could go down route EA do not want to have Steam benefit from it's titles which would increase Steams possible userbase or profits because that makes bigger competition for their own service. From what I think read while back EA has around same amount of customers as Steam right now both around the 30 million mark. Steam wants EA's titles because they are extremely popular and quite simply it is vastly more profits if Steam can get them sold on there.

People in general while not all but most will go elsewhere and buy the game if elsewhere is the only place to buy it. Steam will lose out on a lot of profit if EA do not let them sell for example ME3, BF3 etc and more. While EA doesn't want Steam to widen the gap, as well know most people will go to Origin to buy if they want the game.  

[_Guy_Fawkes_]

Elazul2k wrote...

http://eacom.s3.amaz...gin_8.24.11.pdf 

Section 2, paragraph 2: 

"In addition to information that you give EA directly, EA collects nonpersonally identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as communicating with you.  The non-personally identifiable information that EA collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.  As noted above, this information is gathered periodically for purposes such as improving our products and services, troubleshooting bugs, and otherwise enhancing your user experience."

So, WHY oh WHY does EA consider my IP address non-identifiable? That is like saying my license plate can't identify who I am yet cops use it everyday to identify who a vehicle belongs too.

Also, we live in the world where things like Sony being hacked can occur. Even if Big Brother™ has the best of intentions while spying on us can we count of them to absolutely safeguard this data from all harm? I think NOT!

Good thing I already cancelled my pre-order or I would be doing it right now after reading the EULA closer.

Regarding the "non-personally identifiable information that EA collects": as far as I know it even includes your network adapter's MAC address, which is even more unique, as often enough you'll be receiving a new IP address when reconnecting.

[PSUHammer]

Emoking wrote...
"We are intent on providing Mass Effect to players with the best possible
experience no matter where they purchase or play their game"

is what Chris says in the first post of this thread. Yet I find my experience is not the best, since I have to download a good 2gb of Mass Effect 2 DLC from the BioWare store, as .exe files, when if their DLC were to be on Steam, it would automatically download.

So... They contradict themselves. They're not making it easier and better for me as the consumer by keeping their DLC off of Steam. They're making it more problematic everytime I want to download and install their games.

I agree with you on this semantic.  Downloading all those dumb EXE files for ME2 was a royal pain in the ass.
Steam would have made it much more enjoyable of an experience.

On this end, I do side with Valve in that they want a more seamless distribution method for their clients.  Gabe has stated that he wanted to remove the hassle of installs/patches from the gamer to allow for a broader (i.e. non technical) audience to have access to content.  Steam does that well.

But the revenue thing is a big issue, as well, probably more on EA's side.

[craigdolphin]

Chris, if the Eula for origin explicitly states that the only folder to be scanned is the program files/origin folder then I will buy the game new for pc. If it gives ea permission to scan whatever it feels like, then i'll be buying it second hand for Xbox.

Please provide a link to the Eula that we will be required to agree to. Oh, and of it contains a 'we can change the Eula whenever we like without notice' clause then it's not going to acceptable to me. Unless of course you do not remove access to paid for games when we do not agree to new terms that we disapprove of.

The onus is on you: you want my money then reassure me that you cannot and will not use origin as spyware either now or in the future.

Otherwise I'm done giving you guys another cent. Why support a dev that does not respect the rights and reasonable expectations of their paying customers? After all, the non paying customers will not be required to submit to any of the nonsense.


Just sayin.

Modifié par craigdolphin, 15 janvier 2012 - 11:06 .

[Pixieking]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

From one standpoint you could go down route EA do not want to have Steam benefit from it's titles which would increase Steams possible userbase or profits because that makes bigger competition for their own service. From what I think read while back EA has around same amount of customers as Steam right now both around the 30 million mark. Steam wants EA's titles because they are extremely popular and quite simply it is vastly more profits if Steam can get them sold on there.

People in general while not all but most will go elsewhere and buy the game if elsewhere is the only place to buy it. Steam will lose out on a lot of profit if EA do not let them sell for example ME3, BF3 etc and more. While EA doesn't want Steam to widen the gap, as well know most people will go to Origin to buy if they want the game.  

Generally, yes, I agree with what you said, but your numbers are a bit off

http://www.gamesindu...ay-using-origin

"EA's COO Peter Moore has revealed that 5 million people are now using the
publisher's Origin digital distribution platform every day."

Edit: Though this was before BF3, so it'll be quite a bit a bit higher, I'm sure.

Modifié par Emoking, 15 janvier 2012 - 11:10 .

[PSUHammer]

Emoking wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

We are talking about now...not a few years ago.  Valve has changed their policy and that is what EA is concerned with.  Not picking sides, that is just what it is.

Disingenuous answer.

No-one's picking sides.

I gave an example of Steam ToS before and after EA's removal of Dragon Age 2. That is all.

Disingenuous?  Not sure I am following you.  I simply said "I" wasn't picking sides....not insinuating you were.

[Dragoonlordz]

craigdolphin wrote...

Oh, and of it contains a 'we can change the Eula whenever we like without notice' clause then it's not going to acceptable to me. Unless of course you do not remove access to paid for games when we do not agree to new terms that we disapprove of.

Just sayin.

The first part will never change as it's standard clause on every single EULA for all games regardless of publisher or application. The second part however I do not have answer for.

[Sundance31us]

Elazul2k wrote...
So, WHY oh WHY does EA consider my IP address non-identifiable? That is like saying my license plate can't identify who I am yet cops use it everyday to identify who a vehicle belongs too.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I do believe IP addresses are collected by most of not all servers whenever you visit sites online; the information is kept in server logs.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Server_log
https://www.google.c...rms-server-logs

[Pixieking]

Hammer6767 wrote...

I agree with you on this semantic.  Downloading all those dumb EXE files for ME2 was a royal pain in the ass.
Steam would have made it much more enjoyable of an experience.

On this end, I do side with Valve in that they want a more seamless distribution method for their clients.  Gabe has stated that he wanted to remove the hassle of installs/patches from the gamer to allow for a broader (i.e. non technical) audience to have access to content.  Steam does that well.

But the revenue thing is a big issue, as well, probably more on EA's side.

Aye. It's why, personally (subjectively) I am taking Steam's side in this. They seem to want to make things better for the consumer. Even if that means not having EA games that people want, for awhile (most likely they will end up on Steam at some point).

(I should also note that pretty much every other post I've made on this subject has been with my "wannabe journalist" cap on... I'm not defending Steam so much as poking holes in EA's arguments).

[Moondoggie]

Elazul2k wrote...

http://eacom.s3.amaz...gin_8.24.11.pdf 

Section 2, paragraph 2: 

"In addition to information that you give EA directly, EA collects nonpersonally identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as communicating with you.  The non-personally identifiable information that EA collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.  As noted above, this information is gathered periodically for purposes such as improving our products and services, troubleshooting bugs, and otherwise enhancing your user experience."

So, WHY oh WHY does EA consider my IP address non-identifiable? That is like saying my license plate can't identify who I am yet cops use it everyday to identify who a vehicle belongs too.

Also, we live in the world where things like Sony being hacked can occur. Even if Big Brother™ has the best of intentions while spying on us can we count of them to absolutely safeguard this data from all harm? I think NOT!

Good thing I already cancelled my pre-order or I would be doing it right now after reading the EULA closer.

Are you for real? Even every single website you visit records your IP. address. Getting upset about that being recorded by Origin is laughable. .

[Pixieking]

Hammer6767 wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

We are talking about now...not a few years ago.  Valve has changed their policy and that is what EA is concerned with.  Not picking sides, that is just what it is.

Disingenuous answer.

No-one's picking sides.

I gave an example of Steam ToS before and after EA's removal of Dragon Age 2. That is all.

Disingenuous?  Not sure I am following you.  I simply said "I" wasn't picking sides....not insinuating you were.

Ahh... Sorry, my mistake.

Shouldn't have had that second glass of white wine, I think, :innocent:

[Dragoonlordz]

Emoking wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

From one standpoint you could go down route EA do not want to have Steam benefit from it's titles which would increase Steams possible userbase or profits because that makes bigger competition for their own service. From what I think read while back EA has around same amount of customers as Steam right now both around the 30 million mark. Steam wants EA's titles because they are extremely popular and quite simply it is vastly more profits if Steam can get them sold on there.

People in general while not all but most will go elsewhere and buy the game if elsewhere is the only place to buy it. Steam will lose out on a lot of profit if EA do not let them sell for example ME3, BF3 etc and more. While EA doesn't want Steam to widen the gap, as well know most people will go to Origin to buy if they want the game.  

Generally, yes, I agree with what you said, but your numbers are a bit off

http://www.gamesindu...ay-using-origin

"EA's COO Peter Moore has revealed that 5 million people are now using the
publisher's Origin digital distribution platform every day."

Yes Origin has about 5 million users, the numbers I mentioned are EA customers regardless of where bought the title from Origin meaning people who buy their games regardless of where bought from. I think was listed on their financial reports someone linked earlier. How they got that figure I do not know. I think Origin is their long term plan not short term one, so the 5 million per se isn't as important as what they hope will achieve in the future.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 15 janvier 2012 - 11:10 .