5521 réponses à ce sujet

[Docjam]

lucidfox wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Then why do you own ME2, DA:O and DA2?

You assume too much.

Anyway, the answer is - Steam.

(No, before you complain, I don't consider Steam DRM.)

As much as I do support Steam, I can call a spade a spade and admit that Steam is DRM.

It's DRM I can live with as it's not as obnoxious as Ubisoft's always on DRM, and it's not spying on my computer as Origin has been shown to do at least in the past.  Any information is gathered via opt in, so I just.... don't opt in.  and I don't save my payment information with them.

I can also live with DRM that has been included with physical copies of most publisher's, Disc checks, fine, keys, fine.

[GirlPower23]

Docjam wrote...

I still don't think that's the full reason.  To quote Chris Priestly, EA and Bioware " are happy to partner with any download service that does not restrict our ability to connect directly with our consumers."

That is, the download service has to agree that origin will still be required to run the game that you bought from somewhere other than Origin.

They want to connect directly to you, via the Origin client.  If Valve doesn't want to let them do that, EA/Bioware considers it a deal breaker.

Just like many people consider requiring Origin to be a Deal-breaker.

Umm why would Valve prevent that? You do realize they have an Origin required game on Steam. It's called Gatling Gears.. so obviously Origin has nothing to do with it. They also host a considerable amount of GFWL games. It's just PR Bull**** coming from the EA engine.

Modifié par GirlPower23, 16 janvier 2012 - 07:41 .

[GirlPower23]

yay double post.

Modifié par GirlPower23, 16 janvier 2012 - 07:41 .

[Adugan]

Not ALL DRM is bad. Steam is one example. It doesnt restrict you besides forcing you to launch Steam every time you want to play MP and in some cases, SP. There is no always-connected-to-servers requirement or a download limit. Steam lets me play with my friends, gives me amazing discounts and backs up my gamesaves.

[darthnick427]

Rockworm503 wrote...

photographerleia wrote...

Zannana wrote...

darthnick427 wrote...

Sooo as an X-box 360 gamer i have never really asked too much about Origin or I just didn't care enough. Can someone tell me why Origin being required to play ME3 is so outrageous and/or annoying?

Because in the past Origin was observed to scan files in the PC that it had no buissness to, it had a EULA that permited your personal information to be used as EA wanted and some people have lost trust that this may not be repeated at a later date. Also Origin has a bad history with forum bans that were sometimes wrongfully given and which prohibited people from playing their games. Last, but not least, EA is forcing us to instal the Origin application even if we have bought the physical copy of the game.

That's about it.

Agreed, and it's not just that we would have to install it for a retail purchase, but it is the fact that we would have to install it for retail purchase single player games which are played locally on personal machines.

This pretty much sums it up though.

This in a nutshell really.

all right good to know. thanks guys 

[casadechrisso]

Adugan wrote...

Not ALL DRM is bad. Steam is one example. It doesnt restrict you besides forcing you to launch Steam every time you want to play MP and in some cases, SP. There is no always-connected-to-servers requirement or a download limit. Steam lets me play with my friends, gives me amazing discounts and backs up my gamesaves.

Ouch... I can't answer to that because it'd look as if I switched sides. 

[Wittand25]

Adugan wrote...

Not ALL DRM is bad. Steam is one example. It doesnt restrict you besides forcing you to launch Steam every time you want to play MP and in some cases, SP.

just like Origin.

There is no always-connected-to-servers requirement or a download limit. Steam lets me play with my friends, gives me amazing discounts and backs up my gamesaves.

Just like Origin again.

Lets not forget that it was Valve that went to court to ensure that customers were in practise stripped of the right to sell old games once they not longer want to play them.
Also on the topic on discounts. Steam is incredibly expensive. Games on steam cost as much or even more as in brick and mortar stores even though Valve does make much more profit by unit sold than any retailer selling a boxed copy and there would not be any legal reason to at least reduce the price of games to reflect that.

Modifié par Wittand25, 16 janvier 2012 - 07:54 .

[Adugan]

Wittand25 wrote...

Adugan wrote...

Not ALL DRM is bad. Steam is one example. It doesnt restrict you besides forcing you to launch Steam every time you want to play MP and in some cases, SP.

just like Origin.

There is no always-connected-to-servers requirement or a download limit. Steam lets me play with my friends, gives me amazing discounts and backs up my gamesaves.

Just like Origin again.

Lets not forget that it was Valve that went to court to ensure that customers were in practise stripped of the right to sell old games once they not longer want to play them.
Also on the topic on discounts. Steam is incredibly expensive. Games on steam cost as much or even more as in brick and mortar stores even though Valve does make much more profit by unit sold than any retailer selling a boxed copy and there would not be any legal reason to at least reduce the price of games to reflect that.

Yes, "dynamic" DRM like Origin, Steam and Impulse arent bad as DRM. "Static" DRM act like iron boxes in which you are allowed to play the game, but cannot leave: like the Ubisoft DRM programs, or SecuROM.

Edit: your weird quotes messed up my quotes. 

Modifié par Adugan, 16 janvier 2012 - 07:56 .

[Clive Howlitzer]

Wittand25 wrote...

Adugan wrote...

Not ALL DRM is bad. Steam is one example. It doesnt restrict you besides forcing you to launch Steam every time you want to play MP and in some cases, SP.

just like Origin.

There is no always-connected-to-servers requirement or a download limit. Steam lets me play with my friends, gives me amazing discounts and backs up my gamesaves.

Just like Origin again.

Lets not forget that it was Valve that went to court to ensure that customers were in practise stripped of the right to sell old games once they not longer want to play them.
Also on the topic on discounts. Steam is incredibly expensive. Games on steam cost as much or even more as in brick and mortar stores even though Valve does make much more profit by unit sold than any retailer selling a boxed copy and there would not be any legal reason to at least reduce the price of games to reflect that.

Doesn't the publisher decide what the price tag will be on Steam, not Valve? I never really noticed a huge price difference on Steam than anywhere else. I do notice that they have price drops all the time and sales pretty much daily. The only digital provider of games that I think is better is GOG.com.

[photographerleia]

darthnick427 wrote...

all right good to know. thanks guys 

No prob 

Modifié par photographerleia, 16 janvier 2012 - 08:06 .

[Pupuppu]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

My test found Steam was sending more information than Origin with both running the same time in background for fixed period of time while I am not actually opted into their information sending gathering function.

So you expect that opting out of Steam data collection will disable it's instant messanger aka Steamfriends? Your run tcpview to "analyse" send udp packets? This is all well documented.

[Vendrium]

It's really a shame - I wanted to give Bioware my money - but not under these circumstances. Well - I still want to give them my money because I absolutely love Mass Effect - but I won't be forced to give up my right of privacy.

If we purchase the game under these terms - as some have already stated in this thread - we make it clear to companies that it's okay to get away with anything.

It's sad, but true - people resort to piracy because of reasons such as this thread and I fear that ME3 might become the most pirated game of 2012.

[solfox]

Looks like DA2 was my last BioWare game for the time being. I just cancelled my ME3 CE preorder. Thanks for all the good times and countless hours since Baldur's Gate. I will really miss your games, but Origin is a definitive no-go.

[Adugan]

And we are back to disjointed statements on why people dont want Origin/ME3.

[Kingisaaclinksr]

Chris Priestly wrote...

As I originally posted, please take your complaints that Mass Effect 3 is not available on Steam, to Steam.

I know people are not going to be happy with what I revealed today and I will read the disappointment and anger and frustration and feel bad for it. I know that EA said Origin is not Spyware and people will still insist it is. I will continue to try to get answers to questions that are asked on Origins for those people who still have concerns and want to make informed judgements on Origin and Mass Effect 3.

However, I really do not accept the criticism that WE, BioWare and EA, are wrong for not offering it on Steam. We would like to offer it on Steam. We used to have a good relationship with Steam. The more stores and digital retailers who sell our games, the more customers can buy the games and the money we can make. We are working with digital retailers like Direct2Drive and others so we are not Origin exclusive by any means. Unfortunately, Steam changed their policies and we are currently not able to come to an agreement that allows us to be on Steam. We were on Steam for ME2. We were on Steam for Dragon Age II until we had to remove it, again because Steam changed their policies. We would be on Steam now if their policies allowed us to be there. I do not know if a significant number of fans complaining to Steam that they want Mass Effect 3 to be on Steam will have an effect or not, but it certainly will not hurt. Steam is a great service and I would hope that we will work with them if it becomes possible for us to do so.

As I said, I am reading the thread. I will be taking the questions asked and working to get answers for them. To those who are angry about this and will refuse to buy ME3 as a consequence, I am sorry you feel this way. Hopefully the information I can provide between now and launch, or post launch, will make you change your minds. For those who are still seeking information to make an informed decision, I will continue to work to get answers for you.

Thanks.

I have to call BS on this statement.  You don't want to make it Origin exclusive, but if I buy a CD version, its still attached to Origin.  Make up your mind on Origin exclusivity.  

Also, you keep throwing out "limits how we interact with our customers".  How so?  

Your vague complaints about Valve when few (if any) other devs haven't mentioned any issues with Steam's handling of DLC really throws a lot of suspicion onto you.  You have yet to really state what it is that is exactly wrong with Steam and as such, I cannot agree or disagree.  Because of this, I refuse to buy ME3 when all you offer are vague issues with Steam and conflicting statements about Origin.  It is extremely shady.  I do not deal with shady companies.  I'm voting with my wallet and until you back down on Origin, quit making vague statements and state what it is that exactly wrong with Steam, you can have fun with Origin.  I can live without ME3. 

-King

Modifié par Kingisaaclinksr, 16 janvier 2012 - 08:34 .

[Wittand25]

Clive Howlitzer wrote...
Doesn't the publisher decide what the price tag will be on Steam, not Valve? I never really noticed a huge price difference on Steam than anywhere else. I do notice that they have price drops all the time and sales pretty much daily. The only digital provider of games that I think is better is GOG.com.

No that would be illegal.
Publishers decide a recommended price. Any retailer (digital or not) is free to charge more or less for the product.
The only retailer that is actually bound by the recommended price is the publisher. E.g. Steam must not sell a Valve game cheaper than the recommended price, the same is true for Origin and EA games.

The very fact that games are not cheaper on Steam than boxed versions shows that they do not pass even a bit of the money they save by being a digital distributer on to the customers.
Compare that to Amazon. Since Amazon does save a lot of money by just being an internet store without any real shops, they can afford to sell cheaper than regular brick and mortar stores. That is the reason why newly released games on Amazon are sold below the recommended retail price. 

I just did a quick comparison of Steam and Amazon and in some cases steam charges 20 € more than Amazon does. And I have not found a single recent release which is cheaper on Steam than Amazon or even any local store that sells games that I know of.

[ZenToad]

 preorder cancelled here as well. Wont take any EA's misguided attempt at forcing Origin on me. And after they forced DA2 out in teh state it was.. well.... ME3 is not for me.

[Adugan]

Wittand25 wrote...

Clive Howlitzer wrote...
Doesn't the publisher decide what the price tag will be on Steam, not Valve? I never really noticed a huge price difference on Steam than anywhere else. I do notice that they have price drops all the time and sales pretty much daily. The only digital provider of games that I think is better is GOG.com.

No that would be illegal.
Publishers decide a recommended price. Any retailer (digital or not) is free to charge more or less for the product.
The only retailer that is actually bound by the recommended price is the publisher. E.g. Steam must not sell a Valve game cheaper than the recommended price, the same is true for Origin and EA games.

The very fact that games are not cheaper on Steam than boxed versions shows that they do not pass even a bit of the money they save by being a digital distributer on to the customers.
Compare that to Amazon. Since Amazon does save a lot of money by just being an internet store without any real shops, they can afford to sell cheaper than regular brick and mortar stores. That is the reason why newly released games on Amazon are sold below the recommended retail price. 

I just did a quick comparison of Steam and Amazon and in some cases steam charges 20 € more than Amazon does. And I have not found a single recent release which is cheaper on Steam than Amazon or even any local store that sells games that I know of.

Steam also has ridiculous discounts. 95% of the games I buy on Steam are $10 or less. About 80% of those purchases cost $30 or more.

[Mister Mida]

Adugan wrote...

Steam also has ridiculous discounts. 95% of the games I buy on Steam are $10 or less. About 80% of those purchases cost $30 or more.

So Steam has unrealistic discounts that binds customers to them... Sounds like that South Park episode of Walmart...

[mcneil_1]

Docjam wrote...

Yeah that must be it, it can't possibly be the requirement to install and run origin!

The Direct2Drive version of Mass Effect 3 will require Origin too.

As far as I know, Valve wouldn't allow a company to force you to use their DRM on top of Steam when you buy a game through Steam.

I'll point you to the steam versions of Assassin's Creed II and Splinter Cell: Conviction, both of which did NOT have Ubisoft's DRM, as Steam itself is DRM.

I hope Ubi changed it for steam since I last installed it (about 9 months ago) AC2 still had Uplay on it back then.
I did notice that steam version of A Game of Thrones - Genesis has Tages Solidshield - 5 machine activation limit drm with it.

[didymos1120]

Kingisaaclinksr wrote...

I have to call BS on this statement.  You don't want to make it Origin exclusive, but if I buy a CD version, its still attached to Origin.  Make up your mind on Origin exclusivity. 

All he's referring to there is availability.  The Origin store isn't the only place to purchase it.  The fact that Origin is required for installation doesn't alter the fact that you can buy the game from any number of retailers. 

[Adugan]

Mister Mida wrote...

Adugan wrote...

Steam also has ridiculous discounts. 95% of the games I buy on Steam are $10 or less. About 80% of those purchases cost $30 or more.

So Steam has unrealistic discounts that binds customers to them... Sounds like that South Park episode of Walmart...

If I save tons of money by buying from Steam, why wouldnt I? The price statement is invalid in this case.

Modifié par Adugan, 16 janvier 2012 - 08:39 .

[v0rt3x22]

Chris Priestly wrote...

As I originally posted, please take your complaints that Mass Effect 3 is not available on Steam, to Steam.

I know people are not going to be happy with what I revealed today and I will read the disappointment and anger and frustration and feel bad for it. I know that EA said Origin is not Spyware and people will still insist it is. I will continue to try to get answers to questions that are asked on Origins for those people who still have concerns and want to make informed judgements on Origin and Mass Effect 3.

However, I really do not accept the criticism that WE, BioWare and EA, are wrong for not offering it on Steam. We would like to offer it on Steam. We used to have a good relationship with Steam. The more stores and digital retailers who sell our games, the more customers can buy the games and the money we can make. We are working with digital retailers like Direct2Drive and others so we are not Origin exclusive by any means. Unfortunately, Steam changed their policies and we are currently not able to come to an agreement that allows us to be on Steam. We were on Steam for ME2. We were on Steam for Dragon Age II until we had to remove it, again because Steam changed their policies. We would be on Steam now if their policies allowed us to be there. I do not know if a significant number of fans complaining to Steam that they want Mass Effect 3 to be on Steam will have an effect or not, but it certainly will not hurt. Steam is a great service and I would hope that we will work with them if it becomes possible for us to do so.

As I said, I am reading the thread. I will be taking the questions asked and working to get answers for them. To those who are angry about this and will refuse to buy ME3 as a consequence, I am sorry you feel this way. Hopefully the information I can provide between now and launch, or post launch, will make you change your minds. For those who are still seeking information to make an informed decision, I will continue to work to get answers for you.

Thanks.

I would like to know what sort of agreements EA / Valve is looking at.
I'm not sure where your discussions are - but surely one of the two companies would have to make a sacrifice (or in other words a compromise).

So I'd be interested to know - in light of this - what sort of compromise would EA / Bioware willing to do?

It's either you guys making an exception and abiding by their rules - or Steam making an exception and loosening their terms.

[anzolino]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

anzolino wrote...

"Port 9988/tcp is known to have vulnerabilities caused by trojans and remote code execution."

...
Conclusion? That site is basically just using a generic, fill-in-the-blank template and isn't very useful. That or you should stop using the entire internet.

Yeh I think most people realised this thats why never responded, myself included.

Yes, every single port is vulnerable, but you both missed the point behind my quote:
Why do I have to open another vulnerable port if it's not necessary?
Do you ever think about that?

[Homebound]

as a person who was there when sony's DCUO game got hacked by anonymous let me just say, dont even give Origin a chance. You have everything to lose.