5521 réponses à ce sujet

[Bogsnot1]

v0rt3x22 wrote...
I would like to know what sort of agreements EA / Valve is looking at.
I'm not sure where your discussions are - but surely one of the two companies would have to make a sacrifice (or in other words a compromise).

So I'd be interested to know - in light of this - what sort of compromise would EA / Bioware willing to do?

It's either you guys making an exception and abiding by their rules - or Steam making an exception and loosening their terms.

Personally, I think its more a case of seeing who has the biggest wang.
EA's is bigger, but Steam is more clean cut, and hygenic.

Either way, given the places the pair of them have been, I wouldnt touch either with a rain coat, wellingtons, and a barge pole.

[Metalrocks]

Wittand25 wrote...

Clive Howlitzer wrote...
Doesn't the publisher decide what the price tag will be on Steam, not Valve? I never really noticed a huge price difference on Steam than anywhere else. I do notice that they have price drops all the time and sales pretty much daily. The only digital provider of games that I think is better is GOG.com.

No that would be illegal.
Publishers decide a recommended price. Any retailer (digital or not) is free to charge more or less for the product.
The only retailer that is actually bound by the recommended price is the publisher. E.g. Steam must not sell a Valve game cheaper than the recommended price, the same is true for Origin and EA games.

The very fact that games are not cheaper on Steam than boxed versions shows that they do not pass even a bit of the money they save by being a digital distributer on to the customers.
Compare that to Amazon. Since Amazon does save a lot of money by just being an internet store without any real shops, they can afford to sell cheaper than regular brick and mortar stores. That is the reason why newly released games on Amazon are sold below the recommended retail price. 

I just did a quick comparison of Steam and Amazon and in some cases steam charges 20 € more than Amazon does. And I have not found a single recent release which is cheaper on Steam than Amazon or even any local store that sells games that I know of.

little correction there. the companies can say how much they want for their games on steam. its their game, valve cant tell them how much they should sell their games but they sure have a fixed amount they tell every one how much it should cost.
i have seen an indie game for nearly 5 USD and it was new (not sure of the title now). but from what i have seen on steam, 10$ seams to be the minimum for a company to sell their games on to steam.  
the reason why i know this is, because hydrophobia was for 10$, and one of the company was on the steam forum, and said they were thinking hard for what price they should sell it.
also a other indie company who released their first game (shadow harvest) decided for how much they want to sell it.

@ other topic regarding prices.
steam has most of the time lower prices then retail versions. in australia you pay twice as much for the retail version then what its shown on steam. but since i moved to hong kong, some of  the games are cheaper then even on steam. otherwise pretty much the same as on steam.

Modifié par Metalrocks, 16 janvier 2012 - 08:52 .

[XPMUser]

I don't have problems with ME3 not being released on Steam, but I don't want Origin on my PC

[GuardianofSouls]

I believe the issue between EA and Valve is that Steam does not allow products on its platform where their DLC doesn't go through Steam. IE: Mass Effect 2 using BioWare points and separate installers while not selling the DLC through the Steam store. The funny thing about this is Dragon Age:Origins is still there in non Ultimate edition which has the same system as Mass Effec 1&2 (which is still on Steam) and Dragon Age 2 (which was pulled).

Basically Valve wants a cut of DLC money and EA doesn't want to give it to them. Direct Download and other distributers don't have this rule like Steam does. I'm not supporting EA here, just stating the supposed reasoning.


And since I pre-ordered a retail version, I prefer not having Origin or Steam on my hard copy games. I can always add the shortcut to Steam or etc if I wanted to, but I don't for my RPGs. We'll see what happens with multiplayer because Mass Effect is my "leave me alone" zen game.

Modifié par GuardianofSouls, 16 janvier 2012 - 08:56 .

[Docjam]

mcneil_1 wrote...

Docjam wrote...

Yeah that must be it, it can't possibly be the requirement to install and run origin!

The Direct2Drive version of Mass Effect 3 will require Origin too.

As far as I know, Valve wouldn't allow a company to force you to use their DRM on top of Steam when you buy a game through Steam.

I'll point you to the steam versions of Assassin's Creed II and Splinter Cell: Conviction, both of which did NOT have Ubisoft's DRM, as Steam itself is DRM.

I hope Ubi changed it for steam since I last installed it (about 9 months ago) AC2 still had Uplay on it back then.
I did notice that steam version of A Game of Thrones - Genesis has Tages Solidshield - 5 machine activation limit drm with it.

Uplay is a social thing, not the DRM

[GuardianofSouls]

Docjam wrote...

mcneil_1 wrote...

Docjam wrote...

Yeah that must be it, it can't possibly be the requirement to install and run origin!

The Direct2Drive version of Mass Effect 3 will require Origin too.

As far as I know, Valve wouldn't allow a company to force you to use their DRM on top of Steam when you buy a game through Steam.

I'll point you to the steam versions of Assassin's Creed II and Splinter Cell: Conviction, both of which did NOT have Ubisoft's DRM, as Steam itself is DRM.

I hope Ubi changed it for steam since I last installed it (about 9 months ago) AC2 still had Uplay on it back then.
I did notice that steam version of A Game of Thrones - Genesis has Tages Solidshield - 5 machine activation limit drm with it.

Uplay is a social thing, not the DRM

Uplay can be considered DRM because several in-game items are not unlockable until you connect to Uplay. IE: Assassin's Creed Brotherhood extra outfits.

[Adugan]

GuardianofSouls wrote...

Docjam wrote...

mcneil_1 wrote...

Docjam wrote...

Yeah that must be it, it can't possibly be the requirement to install and run origin!

The Direct2Drive version of Mass Effect 3 will require Origin too.

As far as I know, Valve wouldn't allow a company to force you to use their DRM on top of Steam when you buy a game through Steam.

I'll point you to the steam versions of Assassin's Creed II and Splinter Cell: Conviction, both of which did NOT have Ubisoft's DRM, as Steam itself is DRM.

I hope Ubi changed it for steam since I last installed it (about 9 months ago) AC2 still had Uplay on it back then.
I did notice that steam version of A Game of Thrones - Genesis has Tages Solidshield - 5 machine activation limit drm with it.

Uplay is a social thing, not the DRM

Uplay can be considered DRM because several in-game items are not unlockable until you connect to Uplay. IE: Assassin's Creed Brotherhood extra outfits.

That is like... incentive. You can play the game fine without extra outfits.

[Wittand25]

Metalrocks wrote...
little correction there. the companies can say how much they want for their games on steam. its their game, valve cant tell them how much they should sell them but they sure have a fixed amount they tell every one how much it should cost.
i have seen an indie game for nearly 5 USD and it was new (not sure of the title now). but from what i have seen on steam, 10$ seams to be the minimum for a company to sell their games on to steam.  
the reason why i know this is, because hydrophobia was for 10$, and one of the company was on the steam forum, and said they were thinking hard for what price they should sell it.
also a other indie company who released their first game (shadow harvest) decided for how much they want to sell it.

@ other topic regarding prices.
steam has most of the time lower prices then retail versions. in australia you pay twice as much for the retail version then what its shown on steam. but since i moved to hong kong, some of  the games are cheaper then even on steam. otherwise pretty much the same as on steam.

Yes a company can recommend a price as i wrote, but Valve is not required toactualy sell it at this price. They are free to charge whatever they want, though it is not in Valve´s interest to go above the recommended price of course (especially if the game is not exclusive to steam) or too much below it. And in the case of Indi games the room for discounts seems too small to actually go below the recommended price.

Funny in Austria Steam is always most expensive store, since apart from temporary discounts they seem to stick with the recommended price, while many other stores sell cheaper. But I quess the lack of noteable competition does that to a retailer.

[Parahexavoctal]

GuardianofSouls wrote...
And since I pre-ordered a retail version, I prefer not having Origin or Steam on my hard copy games. I can always add the shortcut to Steam or etc if I wanted to, but I don't for my RPGs.

Well, this is the part you won't have a choice on anymore. Even hard copy retail versions of ME3 require Origin to be installed for however long you want the game installed.

[Docjam]

GuardianofSouls wrote...

Docjam wrote...

mcneil_1 wrote...

Docjam wrote...

Yeah that must be it, it can't possibly be the requirement to install and run origin!

The Direct2Drive version of Mass Effect 3 will require Origin too.

As far as I know, Valve wouldn't allow a company to force you to use their DRM on top of Steam when you buy a game through Steam.

I'll point you to the steam versions of Assassin's Creed II and Splinter Cell: Conviction, both of which did NOT have Ubisoft's DRM, as Steam itself is DRM.

I hope Ubi changed it for steam since I last installed it (about 9 months ago) AC2 still had Uplay on it back then.
I did notice that steam version of A Game of Thrones - Genesis has Tages Solidshield - 5 machine activation limit drm with it.

Uplay is a social thing, not the DRM

Uplay can be considered DRM because several in-game items are not unlockable until you connect to Uplay. IE: Assassin's Creed Brotherhood extra outfits.

Uplay is positive incentive to connect with no negative reprecussions for not connecting, it's a reward system.  It can kind of be used like DRM, but isn't required to play the game.

[GirlPower23]

Wittand25 wrote...

No that would be illegal.
Publishers decide a recommended price. Any retailer (digital or not) is free to charge more or less for the product.
The only retailer that is actually bound by the recommended price is the publisher. E.g. Steam must not sell a Valve game cheaper than the recommended price, the same is true for Origin and EA games.
.

Actually, Publishers do set the price for Steam. The reason Brick and Mortar stores can sell at what they want is because they buy from a distributor so the goods are the stores items now. Valve does not work in physical goods so it's a completely different business. This has been confirmed by a developer that all Valve does is offer a price recommendations. Publishers and Developers have the final say on the price tag. 

Modifié par GirlPower23, 16 janvier 2012 - 09:12 .

[DarthSliver]

Adugan wrote...

GuardianofSouls wrote...

Docjam wrote...

mcneil_1 wrote...

Docjam wrote...

Yeah that must be it, it can't possibly be the requirement to install and run origin!

The Direct2Drive version of Mass Effect 3 will require Origin too.

As far as I know, Valve wouldn't allow a company to force you to use their DRM on top of Steam when you buy a game through Steam.

I'll point you to the steam versions of Assassin's Creed II and Splinter Cell: Conviction, both of which did NOT have Ubisoft's DRM, as Steam itself is DRM.

I hope Ubi changed it for steam since I last installed it (about 9 months ago) AC2 still had Uplay on it back then.
I did notice that steam version of A Game of Thrones - Genesis has Tages Solidshield - 5 machine activation limit drm with it.

Uplay is a social thing, not the DRM

Uplay can be considered DRM because several in-game items are not unlockable until you connect to Uplay. IE: Assassin's Creed Brotherhood extra outfits.

That is like... incentive. You can play the game fine without extra outfits.

Not to mention they are just looks and do nothing to benefit your play. Its like the appearance packs for your characters in ME2.

[Lumikki]

GuardianofSouls wrote...

I believe the issue between EA and Valve is that Steam does not allow products on its platform where their DLC doesn't go through Steam. IE: Mass Effect 2 using BioWare points and separate installers while not selling the DLC through the Steam store. The funny thing about this is Dragon Age:Origins is still there in non Ultimate edition which has the same system as Mass Effec 1&2 (which is still on Steam) and Dragon Age 2 (which was pulled).

Basically Valve wants a cut of DLC money and EA doesn't want to give it to them. Direct Download and other distributers don't have this rule like Steam does. I'm not supporting EA here, just stating the supposed reasoning.

This has been the issue in hole media and entertaiment industry. They think too much about they own profit and needs, too little what they actions cause to happen to they customers. Many times we customers suffer, because these decissions.

Same happens here in Origin client too. EA thinks too much they own needs, too little what they needs cause to happen to they customers.

Modifié par Lumikki, 16 janvier 2012 - 09:22 .

[Docjam]

GirlPower23 wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

No that would be illegal.
Publishers decide a recommended price. Any retailer (digital or not) is free to charge more or less for the product.
The only retailer that is actually bound by the recommended price is the publisher. E.g. Steam must not sell a Valve game cheaper than the recommended price, the same is true for Origin and EA games.
.

Actually, Publishers do set the price for Steam. The reason Brick and Mortar stores can sell at what they want is because they buy from a distributor so the goods are the stores items now. Valve does not work in physical goods so it's a completely different business. This has been confirmed by a developer that all Valve does is offer a price recommendations. Publishers and Developers have the final say on the price tag. 

How does Valve get away with the crazy sales then?  Christmas time you buy stuff for prices so good you can't pass them up.

[Fredvdp]

GuardianofSouls wrote...

I believe the issue between EA and Valve is that Steam does not allow products on its platform where their DLC doesn't go through Steam. IE: Mass Effect 2 using BioWare points and separate installers while not selling the DLC through the Steam store. The funny thing about this is Dragon Age:Origins is still there in non Ultimate edition which has the same system as Mass Effec 1&2 (which is still on Steam) and Dragon Age 2 (which was pulled).

That's because Valve's DLC policy does not apply to games and DLC that came out before the policy change. Dragon Age II was pulled because the DLC came out after Valve changed it.

Modifié par Fredvdp, 16 janvier 2012 - 09:22 .

[Wittand25]

GirlPower23 wrote...

Wittand25 wrote...

No that would be illegal.
Publishers decide a recommended price. Any retailer (digital or not) is free to charge more or less for the product.
The only retailer that is actually bound by the recommended price is the publisher. E.g. Steam must not sell a Valve game cheaper than the recommended price, the same is true for Origin and EA games.
.

Actually, Publishers do set the price for Steam. The reason Brick and Mortar stores can sell at what they want is because they buy from a distributor so the goods are the stores items now. Valve does not work in physical goods so it's a completely different business. This has been confirmed by a developer that all Valve does is offer a price recommendations. Publishers and Developers have the final say on the price tag.

So how is steam able to offer sales ?
Do they need to call back every publisher for every little bit of promotion ?
Also you just said that Valve gives the publishers different possible prices and the publisher picks on of them. In other words it is still Valve´s decision how much money they make by any unit sold. There is nothing stopping Valve from recommending prices that pass some of the savings that result running a digital store on to the customer. I really doubt that all that money that does not need to be spend on the whole distribution chain, production of the actual box and on store staff to sell the games goes to the publisher and that Valve does not keep a nice portion of it.

Edit:
But this is now offtopic since the discussion should not be about the Origin store but the Origin client, so it might be a good idea to drop the comparing of the stores. (Considering the total lack of support dealing with buying via Origin I expirienced, Steam would win anyway even if they charged twice as much as Origin)

Modifié par Wittand25, 16 janvier 2012 - 09:40 .

[skuko]

after having experienced origin with BF3, i will vote against it the only way i can - WITH MY WALLET.

BioWare, you just lost a customer.

**** you.

[Aquem1ni]

Arrgghh they still trying to put this dying infested crap on us.
I guess Ill be getting the PC version via other routes this time, say a route that does not force me to use origin......what route could that be
Origin is similar to the CEO of EA, they both don't know what a game is or how to run one and they both need to be made redundant.

I really try and stay away from EA as I've noticed that they have become more and more greedy and less about the user. The Theme Park stunt on OS was the icing on the cake for me , unfortunately there are allot of great game companies that have sold their souls to this publisher and are nothing more then a **** to EA and trapped like dogs in a cage:(

So unfortunate indeed.

Sooo let me get this right. EA wont give it to steam because steam are the bad guys?????????????????????... you are really going down this route EA? Really......

Modifié par Aquem1ni, 16 janvier 2012 - 09:46 .

[Aargh12]

Wittand25 wrote...

So how is steam able to offer sales ?
Do they need to call back every publisher for every little bit of promotion ?

Actually, yes, they do. Look for example at CoD games prices during sales. They are way higher than the rest. If Valve could set the prices of the games, CoDs would be way cheaper.

I really doubt that all that money that does not need to be spend on the whole distribution chain, production of the actual box and on store staff to sell the games goes to the publisher and that Valve does not keep a nice portion of it.

Afaik Valve gets ~30% cut

[Pixieking]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

I would like to know what sort of agreements EA / Valve is looking at.
I'm not sure where your discussions are - but surely one of the two companies would have to make a sacrifice (or in other words a compromise).

So I'd be interested to know - in light of this - what sort of compromise would EA / Bioware willing to do?

It's either you guys making an exception and abiding by their rules - or Steam making an exception and loosening their terms.

I, too, am interested in the bolded question.

[Aquem1ni]

skuko wrote...

after having experienced origin with BF3, i will vote against it the only way i can - WITH MY WALLET.

BioWare, you just lost a customer.

**** you.

I totally agree with you on this one. 

[themastakillah]

skuko wrote...

after having experienced origin with BF3, i will vote against it the only way i can - WITH MY WALLET.

BioWare, you just lost a customer.

**** you.

bioware can't do ish about this, its EA

[Pixieking]

Docjam wrote...


Yeah that must be it, it can't possibly be the requirement to install and run origin!

The Direct2Drive version of Mass Effect 3 will require Origin too.

As far as I know, Valve wouldn't allow a company to force you to use their DRM on top of Steam when you buy a game through Steam.

That really isn't the issue... Look at LA Noire, which uses the Rockstar Social system to manage certain things.

More pertinently, look at Batman: Arkham City. That uses G4WL, even on the Steam version.

Or look at Game of Thrones: Genesis, which uses Steamworks and TAGES.

To make this On-Topic, though...

I have no doubt that ME3 will come to Steam at some point in the future. I will happily wait until it does, and purchase it then. Given the number of AAA titles that I've still got to play, being forced to use Origin on a game that I can kinda-wait-for is not what I want to do with my money.

Modifié par Emoking, 16 janvier 2012 - 10:18 .

[Mister Mida]

Emoking wrote...

That really isn't the issue... Look at LA Noire, which uses the Rockstar Social system to manage certain things.

More pertinently, look at Batman: Arkham City. That uses G4WL, even on the Steam version.

Or look at Game of Thrones: Genesis, which uses Steamworks and TAGES.

It's one thing to use one kind of DRM, but using two kinds of DRM is plain old retarted. It's like installing two anti-virus programs on your computer. One is almost certainly gonna mess up the other.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 16 janvier 2012 - 10:17 .

[Pixieking]

Mister Mida wrote...

Emoking wrote...

That really isn't the issue... Look at LA Noire, which uses the Rockstar Social system to manage certain things.

More pertinently, look at Batman: Arkham City. That uses G4WL, even on the Steam version.

Or look at Game of Thrones: Genesis, which uses Steamworks and TAGES.

It's one thing to use one kind of DRM, but using two kinds of DRM is plain old retarted. It's like installing two anti-virus programs on your computer. One is almost certainly gonna mess up the other.

Well, yes and no... The only time it's really cocked up is when G4WL has been used on top of Steam. And that's because G4WL is a flawed, buggy system. But, yeah, it's a bit dumb to use so much DRM.