5521 réponses à ce sujet

[Bogsnot1]

Adugan wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Adugan wrote...

Did they have a choice though? I thought EA bought out BW's holding company, its like a new manager was hired for a store. The employees in the store got no say.

Bioware and Pandemic had a partnership that was owned by some holding company, which was headed by EA's current CEO. When EA bought this partnership, they made this guy the CEO.

And as of a year or so, Pandemic has been closed down after one lousy title under EA's ownership.

Yes, but did BW get a choice in EA's ownership change? When you buy groceries, they dont go "nah, I dont want to be bought by this guy". BW was property that was traded for money.

No, but when one company takes over yours, you do have the option of saying "I'm not working for that bunch of seagulls. They come in, make a lot of noise, crap on everything, and then leave."

[Adugan]

Lumikki wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Publisher, as far as I'm aware. Just like a normal game.

If that would be true, then what possible issue EA could have?

EA gets 30% less profit from sales through Steam. Thats what.

[fchopin]

So does this mean that we will not even be able to play the demo without origin?

All i can say is this is not what i expected after playing ME1, i play games and don't expect to install unwanted software on my computer just so i am able to play a game.

A shame we are been forced to install origin before we are able to play ME3, maybe it's for the best, i don't think ME3 will be an rpg anymore so it does not really matter.

[EimiYoshikawa]

GuardianofSouls wrote...

I believe the issue between EA and Valve is that Steam does not allow products on its platform where their DLC doesn't go through Steam. IE: Mass Effect 2 using BioWare points and separate installers while not selling the DLC through the Steam store. The funny thing about this is Dragon Age:Origins is still there in non Ultimate edition which has the same system as Mass Effec 1&2 (which is still on Steam) and Dragon Age 2 (which was pulled).

Basically Valve wants a cut of DLC money and EA doesn't want to give it to them. Direct Download and other distributers don't have this rule like Steam does. I'm not supporting EA here, just stating the supposed reasoning.

To be more precise, the way it now stands, Valve won't let you sell your DLC without ALSO giving customers the choice to buy it through Steam. You can still sell it in your own storefront/via your webpage/etc and keep all the profit yourself, but only when the customers chooses to go to said storefront/webpage and buy it from you, rather than buying it through Steam.

Of course, companies are free to offer competitive prices and incentives to get their customers to come directly to them rather than take advantage of Steam's (on average) higher level of convenience. But companies that depend on being the only show in town and not having to offer sales, other incentives, or to sell DLC for actual currency rather than forcing customers to buy "points" or some other system are going to be at a disadvantage there. They'll still get the majority cut of all DLC sales through steam, but it won't be the 100% it used to be.

(On the other hand, they're actually likely to get a lot of DLC sales they WOULDN'T have otherwise seen...my friends and I have demonstrated that we're a lot more likely to buy DLC through Steam we wouldn't have bought otherwise had we had to go to the publisher's store. But this fact tends to be brushed off by certain companies.)

[Pixieking]

Lumikki wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Publisher, as far as I'm aware. Just like a normal game.

If that would be true, then what possible issue EA could have?
if they can define they own store and steam store prices?

Well, as it stands now, the DLC for ME/DA is sold in only one place (BioWare Store). That means 100% of the profits go directly to EA. If it were sold on Steam, they'd either have to keep the price the same as it is now and lose 30% of their profit-stream to Steam. Or, they increase the price to absorb Steam's cut, and possibly lose out on sales due to a higher price-point.

Modifié par Emoking, 16 janvier 2012 - 11:01 .

[Lumikki]

DLC cost 5, so that's price in EA's store
Steam takes 30% so steam price is 5 + 30%

EA defines the price and allways get the 5, even if it's sold in steam.
Why would EA have issues?

Modifié par Lumikki, 16 janvier 2012 - 11:03 .

[Pixieking]

Lumikki wrote...

DLC cost 5, so that's price in EA's store
Steam takes 30% so steam price is 5 + 30%

EA defines the price and allways get the 5, even if it's sold in steam.
Why would EA have issues?

Because they're greedy? *shrugs*

Because they think that they can con people into always buying at their store and not giving the consumer a choice? Which, to be fair, until now no-one's really cared, so they have succeeded up to a point.

Modifié par Emoking, 16 janvier 2012 - 11:06 .

[Bogsnot1]

Lumikki wrote...

DLC cost 5, so that's price in EA's store
Steam takes 30% so steam price is 5 + 30%

EA defines the price and allways get the 5, even if it's sold in steam.
Why would EA have issues?

Because noone except Steam fanbois and EA haters would buy from Steam for $6.50 ($5 + 30%), when they could get it from Origin for $5.

[Adugan]

Lumikki wrote...

DLC cost 5, so that's price in EA's store
Steam takes 30% so steam price is 5 + 30%

EA defines the price and allways get the 5, even if it's sold in steam.
Why would EA have issues?

Why would people buy it on Steam then? Feeling charitable shouldnt mean giving money to corporations.

[EimiYoshikawa]

Lumikki wrote...

DLC cost 5, so that's price in EA's store
Steam takes 30% so steam price is 5 + 30%

EA defines the price and allways get the 5, even if it's sold in steam.
Why would EA have issues?

Probably because Valve wouldn't let them gouge their Steam customers like that. They don't let publishers jack up the Steam prices of their games to get around the agreed-upon percentage Valve gets, because doing so screws their customers.

That is the crux of the matter. EA wants ALL the money from every DLC service, and the only way to do that is to sell it through their own storefront. Any compromise is anathema to them, even if they'd probably wind up making more profit overall due to the increased number of total sales due to people that would buy their DLC via Steam but not from them.

[Lumikki]

Emoking wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

DLC cost 5, so that's price in EA's store
Steam takes 30% so steam price is 5 + 30%

EA defines the price and allways get the 5, even if it's sold in steam.
Why would EA have issues?

Because they're greedy? *shrugs*

Because they think that they can con people into always buying at their store and not giving the consumer a choice? Which, to be fair, until now no-one's really cared, so they have succeeded up to a point.

What does it mean for company as what store companies product is sold, if they get same price by them self every sale?

EimiYoshikawa wrote...

Probably because Valve wouldn't let them gouge their Steam customers like that. They don't let publishers jack up the Steam prices of their games to get around the agreed-upon percentage Valve gets, because doing so screws
their customers.

That is the crux of the matter. EA wants ALL the money from every DLC service, and the only way to do that is to sell it through their own storefront. Any compromise is anathema to them, even if they'd probably wind up making more profit overall due to the increased number of total sales due to people that would buy their DLC via Steam but not from them.

Yes, because Valve's politics doesn't go in hand with EA's.

Valve wants same price but takes cut, so EA lose little bit money.
Valve wants that product related the main product are also sold in they services.


So, EA makes they own digital distribution software, Origin.

Modifié par Lumikki, 16 janvier 2012 - 11:12 .

[Wittand25]

Adugan wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Publisher, as far as I'm aware. Just like a normal game.

If that would be true, then what possible issue EA could have?

EA gets 30% less profit from sales through Steam. Thats what.

And has the extra cost of making Steam versions of the DLC, And looses customer retention to Steam.

So basically Steam is asking anyone wishing to use their service to spend more money and effort on developing something that will only benefit Steam and nobody else and a give Steam a share of the income said effort generates.
 
I can totally see how the sole blame in that case resides with EA for not accepting those terms when there are alternative distribution methods.

[abaris]

EimiYoshikawa wrote...

That is the crux of the matter. EA wants ALL the money from every DLC service, and the only way to do that is to sell it through their own storefront. Any compromise is anathema to them, even if they'd probably wind up making more profit overall due to the increased number of total sales due to people that would buy their DLC via Steam but not from them.

Yeah, but that's perfectly all right from a business point of view. I would do it too if it meant that I can keep all the profits of my creations.

But it's beside the issue. Last time I checked, this thread is about Origin being mandatory to even play the game and the unclear situation about what information it's phoning home and what it is capable of doing at some point in the future.

[Pixieking]

Wittand25 wrote...

So basically Steam is asking anyone wishing to use their service to spend more money and effort on developing something that will only benefit Steam and nobody else and a give Steam a share of the income said effort generates.
 

I'll take issue with that bolded point.

Having it on Steam would benefit me -  the consumer. As I said many pages back, using the BioWare store to download and install 2gb of DLC everytime I want to install and play a Mass Effect or Dragon Age game negatively affects my enjoyment of the game. Why should I spend absolute hours doing something that, if the DLC were on Steam, would be done automatically?

Again, I'll quote the PR from the first post:

"We are intent on providing Mass Effect to players with the best possible
experience no matter where they purchase or play their game"

I do not have the best experience when I have to spend so long jumping through hoops and downloading seperate files, simply to play their game.

[Adugan]

Cmon guys, 4087 posts to go before over 9000!

Modifié par Adugan, 16 janvier 2012 - 11:16 .

[Pixieking]

abaris wrote...

Yeah, but that's perfectly all right from a business point of view. I would do it too if it meant that I can keep all the profits of my creations.

Aye. I can accept it's possibly good business practice. But it doesn't help me, the consumer, enjoy their game. Which is why I'm not going to give them money to continue to be (in my opinion) anti-consumer.

abaris wrote...
But it's beside the issue. Last time I checked, this thread is about Origin being mandatory to even play the game and the unclear situation about what information it's phoning home and what it is capable of doing at some point in the future.

Well, to be honest, it's about every point that Chris posted on the first page. So, enforcing Origin even on physical retail copies, the lack of a Steam release, etc.

Modifié par Emoking, 16 janvier 2012 - 11:18 .

[OperativeX]

abaris wrote...

EimiYoshikawa wrote...

That is the crux of the matter. EA wants ALL the money from every DLC service, and the only way to do that is to sell it through their own storefront. Any compromise is anathema to them, even if they'd probably wind up making more profit overall due to the increased number of total sales due to people that would buy their DLC via Steam but not from them.

Yeah, but that's perfectly all right from a business point of view. I would do it too if it meant that I can keep all the profits of my creations.

But it's beside the issue. Last time I checked, this thread is about Origin being mandatory to even play the game and the unclear situation about what information it's phoning home and what it is capable of doing at some point in the future.

Actors, artists, devs, writers all have Agents. Agents help them get their work out to wider audiences and therefore receive a wider income. The fact in the matter is that Steam is one of the best Agents out there.

EA needs to get over their collective ego and stop being so greedy. Steam have been doing them a good service for years.

[CroGamer002]

Emoking wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

DLC cost 5, so that's price in EA's store
Steam takes 30% so steam price is 5 + 30%

EA defines the price and allways get the 5, even if it's sold in steam.
Why would EA have issues?

Because they're greedy? *shrugs*

Because they think that they can con people into always buying at their store and not giving the consumer a choice? Which, to be fair, until now no-one's really cared, so they have succeeded up to a point.

And what choice exactly?

[abaris]

Emoking wrote...

Well, to be honest, it's about every point that Chris posted on the first page. So, enforcing Origin even on physical retail copies, the lack of a Steam release, etc.

Since I'm not using any client and never will if I can help it, it's about a client being mandatory to play a physical copy in my case.

As has been said many times, steam might be slightly better when it comes to clients, but it's still a client, bloatware, capable of doing unwanted things.

[Pixieking]

Mesina2 wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

DLC cost 5, so that's price in EA's store
Steam takes 30% so steam price is 5 + 30%

EA defines the price and allways get the 5, even if it's sold in steam.
Why would EA have issues?

Because they're greedy? *shrugs*

Because they think that they can con people into always buying at their store and not giving the consumer a choice? Which, to be fair, until now no-one's really cared, so they have succeeded up to a point.

And what choice exactly?

The choice of buying Mass Effect/Dragon Age DLC from other shops. Which, let's be honest, sucks. Not saying they aren't allowed to do it, but I like to have some freedom to purchase games and DLC, even if I have to register it on the same place (Origin, Steam, whereever).

[Pixieking]

abaris wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Well, to be honest, it's about every point that Chris posted on the first page. So, enforcing Origin even on physical retail copies, the lack of a Steam release, etc.

Since I'm not using any client and never will if I can help it, it's about a client being mandatory to play a physical copy in my case.

As has been said many times, steam might be slightly better when it comes to clients, but it's still a client, bloatware, capable of doing unwanted things.

Yeah. I totally respect that decision. What kills me is that EA have affronted so many different groups of people with this- the people who want it on Steam; the people who don't want Origin; the people who don't want it on either platform, and just want a simply disc check. Way to annoy lots of different people EA. <_<

Modifié par Emoking, 16 janvier 2012 - 11:22 .

[EimiYoshikawa]

abaris wrote...

Yeah, but that's perfectly all right from a business point of view. I would do it too if it meant that I can keep all the profits of my creations.

But it's beside the issue. Last time I checked, this thread is about Origin being mandatory to even play the game and the unclear situation about what information it's phoning home and what it is capable of doing at some point in the future.

Lumikki wrote...

Yes, because Valve's politics doesn't go in hand with EA's.

Valve wants same price but takes cut, so EA lose little bit money.
Valve wants that product related the main product are also sold in they services.


So, EA makes they own digital distribution software, Origin.

Of course it's all right for them to do so. It simply strikes me as being financially risky, as it is unlikely that their Origin gambit will produce enough profits to offset the loss of sales via Steam. Any critiquing I was doing was off their business acumen, not their right to do as they wish with their own products.

And I posted here around page 30, around 48 hours ago saying I had bought ME 1 & 2 via Steam as well as most of their DLCs. And that I wouldn't be buying ME3 as long as Origin was required.

Just to be clear, that's because I don't want Origin on my system, not because I can't buy it via Steam. If a physical copy without Origin was available (or some hypothetical horrible DRM on the disc version), I would buy it.

I'm pretty sure the majority of people saying they won't buy it with Origin attached are in that camp as well. The number that MUST have Steam to buy it is likely quite small, making attempts to drag the discussion into being focused on Steam a distraction.

[ETermin]

what if this just EA's way of enacting Sopa/PiPa by trying to increase piracy temporarily?

[Chavez_Dice]

Mesina2 wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

DLC cost 5, so that's price in EA's store
Steam takes 30% so steam price is 5 + 30%

EA defines the price and allways get the 5, even if it's sold in steam.
Why would EA have issues?

Because they're greedy? *shrugs*

Because they think that they can con people into always buying at their store and not giving the consumer a choice? Which, to be fair, until now no-one's really cared, so they have succeeded up to a point.

And what choice exactly?

The choice of obtaining a copy of Mass Effect 3 without requiring Origin.

But you knew that, this entire topic long I have only seen you post dick moves and no proper arguments. You are fueling the frustration among potential customers, nothing more.

[Pixieking]

EimiYoshikawa wrote...

I'm pretty sure the majority of people saying they won't buy it with Origin attached are in that camp as well. The number that MUST have Steam to buy it is likely quite small, making attempts to drag the discussion into being focused on Steam a distraction.

Yeah, I don't have to have it on Steam. I would prefer it, but if there was a physical disc that didn't have Origin, I'd pick that up straight away, and maybe buy it on Steam when it got there.