5521 réponses à ce sujet

[Zannana]

abaris wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...


Unfortunately there are a lot of people who cannot understand a decision that does not benefit them and is not what they want to happen. This day and age has made us a society of "me first or i'll sue you" where everyone treats business as demonic and evil when they make decisions to ensure the future prosperity of the company and those employed within it that do the hard work so those customers can enjoy games.

That cuts both ways. There are those humanising their favorite business to the point of viewing their employees as personal buddies.

In my opinion and personal experience, business is highly impersonal. The primary goal is to make as much profit for the owners which in most cases are shareholders. If this interest coincides with customer interests it's a good thing. But one should never assume that customer care is high on the agenda unless there's the expectation of higher profits involved.

So I wouldn't call business evil, not even immoral. It's amoral, the culmination of egoistic behaviour. That's why I have no problem with customers being egoistic too. They just shouldn't lose contact with mother earth on the way.

Buisnesses care about profit and try to make products that will lead to that precise thing. Profit is made if a product is sold, thus making the consumer very important, because if he doesnt buy the product the company makes no money and it goes under. Simple as that. If ME3 has more sales than ME2 did, that will solidify (in my opinion) the use of Origin and such applications, leading us (a minority??) who do not want anything to do with such applications to play very few games (like Witcher2) who are without such restrictions. Because, other companies may embrace having their own 'Steam' and 'Origin', competition usually leads there.

[Incognito JC]

xarthas2 wrote...

Anyone has said The Witcher 2?

So many times on this thread. If only other publishers would see CDProjekt as an example.

[Vendrium]

Well guys we have several options - we can:

A) Keep discussing it here and hope EA actually reads 200+ pages
Create a petition
C) Not buy the game in protest
D) Rate the game extremely low on Metacritic
E) Write EA CEO John Riccitiello an e-mail (jriccitiello@ea.com)

Modifié par Vendrium, 16 janvier 2012 - 04:46 .

[Alex_SM]

Moondoggie wrote...

Coreniro wrote...


Wanting a slice of the cake isn't illegal. If I were as big as a publisher as them, I'd make my games exclusives too. Do you understand that, by letting steam sell EA games, they let them earn money with Ea's intellectual poperty? It's moronic. If I own Ibrahimovic (or Mass Effect 3), I would never let him play for another team (Steam), knowing that they're going to win the champions league thanks to him. 

Unfortunately there are a lot of people who cannot understand a decision that does not benefit them and is not what they want to happen. This day and age has made us a society of "me first or i'll sue you" where everyone treats business as demonic and evil when they make decisions to ensure the future prosperity of the company and those employed within it that do the hard work so those customers can enjoy games.

The point is that big business are the first ones who cannot understand anything that does not benefit them. 

Also,  treating big corporations as demonic is well deserved. They are the ones who treat their customers as criminals and screw them in lots of ways. Also they are the ones who try to modify laws in really anti-democratic ways just for their own good. 

[Moondoggie]

Incognito JC wrote...


What was your question? Stand up against my employer? Yes I have. Fire? No. Did you suggest screaming? No. Did you indirectly suggest an interaction to get people fired to go against their employer? Yes. Which I therefore suggested screaming, the only posibility. Unless, again, your employer would fire you over a simple suggestion.

I never changed what I said, I stood my point. If you could not grasp my intent, I apologize for my wording, and suggest you try re-reading them. You are trying to twist my words rather than refuting my point.

Any BW staff that could share our opinion, could not express that openly, thus I said "hoped". And apparently this is a propaganda for you. So far they have been denying the claims, not "believe". Also conveniently evading certain evidence given out by other posters.

And people like you have been conveniently ignoring evidence and logic that does not prove your claims.

I'd very much love to hear how you heroicly stood up to your employer though that sounds like a rip roaring affair.

[Ryzaki]

IsaacShep wrote...
Yep. That's it. Retailers, manufactuers and all the other companies that are involved in poducing, distributing and selling packed products all get their cut. So when EA cries "Ohh Steam wants to give us only 70% so unfair!!!" I'm just rolling my eyes. Digital distribution is a MONSTROUS revenue increase for publishers compared to retail.

I figured everyone got a cut I just didn't realize EA's portion was so low.

lol

[outlaw1109]

Moondoggie wrote...

Alpha Bootis wrote...

Anything that is sold in game stores also has cuts going to that game store.
DLC's are something that should be banned anyway. A game should be complete as sold. DLC is a very nifty way of making more money with minimal effort, DLC is something i rarely spend money on with the sole exception of the Fallout franchise.

Your personal opinion of DLC is neither here nor there really is it. The point i am making is when a company like Valve is demanding a cut in everything you create to do with a game they are selling there is a problem. EA decided they won't sell extras through Steam and Valve got angry because they are missing out on their cut which is why they make these insane demands in the first place.

Actually, as I have previously misunderstood this, I have discovered that it isn't so much about the money when it comes to why EA games were removed from STEAM.  It's because of the way they distribute DLC IN GAME, instead of monitary issues.  I don't understand why this is such a big deal...

[damp]

Moondoggie wrote...

Alpha Bootis wrote...


How is steam making money with EA's IP any different then any other game store selling games? 

Because Steam want a cut of everything not just game sales but sales of any future DLC or expansions too. A store doesn't ask for that.

A store would however ask for that if they were selling boxed copies of an expansion that could be obtained as a DLC.

[Amyra]

Moondoggie wrote...

Would you prefer they use third party DRM? Or maybe they can be like a lot of top games now where you need to have the Steam platform to access the game?

If I already have steam, I would prefer to use it.
In this case, I cannot.

If you ask me what I would prefer, I would prefer they used nothing, but that's just me....

I don't know if it could be posible... like a cerberus network from the second game?
I didn't need to install anything, just "link" my game to my account. That was good... do it again.

[Zannana]

Vendrium wrote...

Well guys we have several options - we can:

A) Keep discussing it here and hope EA actually reads 200+ pages
Create a petition
C) Not buy the game in protest
D) Rate the game extremely low on Metacritic
E) Write EA CEO John Riccitiello an e-mail (jriccitiello@ea.com)

I choose A,C and D. And if there is a will, I can also participate in B.
Also, we have started a group, as seen by my signature

[Moondoggie]

Alex_SM wrote...


The point is that big business are the first ones who cannot understand anything that does not benefit them. 

Also,  treating big corporations as demonic is well deserved. They are the ones who treat their customers as criminals and screw them in lots of ways. Also they are the ones who try to modify laws in really anti-democratic ways just for their own good. 

You know its people like you who help people like Alex Jones and David Icke sell lots of books and why lots of people fear the world will end this year.

[Unit-Alpha]

Moondoggie wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...


The point is that big business are the first ones who cannot understand anything that does not benefit them. 

Also,  treating big corporations as demonic is well deserved. They are the ones who treat their customers as criminals and screw them in lots of ways. Also they are the ones who try to modify laws in really anti-democratic ways just for their own good. 

You know its people like you who help people like Alex Jones and David Icke sell lots of books and why lots of people fear the world will end this year.

....SOPA. I'm pretty sure what he said is directly proven there.

[Incognito JC]

Moondoggie wrote...

And people like you have been conveniently ignoring evidence and logic that does not prove your claims.

I'd very much love to hear how you heroicly stood up to your employer though that sounds like a rip roaring affair.

Do not use that condescending tone with that ignorant sentence. We do not ignore evidence. If you bothered reading most of the thread, EVIDENCE, has showed that Origin did scan all over our PC with unknown intentions. Origin, does not do it NOW. All the test shows is that it may be safe to use now, but they did it before, they might do it again.

Please, I would love to see you twist my words again. Are you really arguing for the sake of arguing? My original post was a simple, "I hope they would...".

I never said it was heroic to stand up against my employer. Maybe I am lucky, but my employer(s) expects us to interact with them as a peer, it encourages creativity. If you do not have such luxury of an employer, my condolences.

[Ryzaki]

Unit-Alpha wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...


The point is that big business are the first ones who cannot understand anything that does not benefit them. 

Also,  treating big corporations as demonic is well deserved. They are the ones who treat their customers as criminals and screw them in lots of ways. Also they are the ones who try to modify laws in really anti-democratic ways just for their own good. 

You know its people like you who help people like Alex Jones and David Icke sell lots of books and why lots of people fear the world will end this year.

....SOPA. I'm pretty sure what he said is directly proven there.

If that passes I will hike my ass to Canada so help me.

[Pixieking]

Zannana wrote...

Vendrium wrote...

Well guys we have several options - we can:

A) Keep discussing it here and hope EA actually reads 200+ pages
Create a petition
C) Not buy the game in protest
D) Rate the game extremely low on Metacritic
E) Write EA CEO John Riccitiello an e-mail (jriccitiello@ea.com)

I choose A,C and D. And if there is a will, I can also participate in B.
Also, we have started a group, as seen by my signature

I choose A, and C, and will certainly put my name to B if it existed.

And, when I have had food, I might also do E.

[Vendrium]

....SOPA. I'm pretty sure what he said is directly proven there. 

Guys we are already derailing in here with Steam - let's not derail to SOPA please.

Modifié par Vendrium, 16 janvier 2012 - 04:53 .

[shepskisaac]

Vendrium wrote...

Well guys we have several options - we can:

A) Keep discussing it here and hope EA actually reads 200+ pages
Create a petition
C) Not buy the game in protest
D) Rate the game extremely low on Metacritic
E) Write EA CEO John Riccitiello an e-mail (jriccitiello@ea.com)

B should be a start and we can do it now. As for E, spamming his email won't do much. We need to reach Ray Muzyka & Greg Zeschuk (co-founders of BioWare who are now heads of BioWare division and the only pople who can have any pull in EA decisions)

Modifié par IsaacShep, 16 janvier 2012 - 04:53 .

[casadechrisso]

A, B if existed, C, and maybe a 1-star amazon rating, which helped the cause over here more than anything else.

[Unit-Alpha]

outlaw1109 wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

Alpha Bootis wrote...

Anything that is sold in game stores also has cuts going to that game store.
DLC's are something that should be banned anyway. A game should be complete as sold. DLC is a very nifty way of making more money with minimal effort, DLC is something i rarely spend money on with the sole exception of the Fallout franchise.

Your personal opinion of DLC is neither here nor there really is it. The point i am making is when a company like Valve is demanding a cut in everything you create to do with a game they are selling there is a problem. EA decided they won't sell extras through Steam and Valve got angry because they are missing out on their cut which is why they make these insane demands in the first place.

Actually, as I have previously misunderstood this, I have discovered that it isn't so much about the money when it comes to why EA games were removed from STEAM.  It's because of the way they distribute DLC IN GAME, instead of monitary issues.  I don't understand why this is such a big deal...

That's what EA says it is. It has to do with Steam releasing everything in a proprietary format that makes it "impossible" for EA to sell the content directly, rahter than through Steam. They don't want Steam taking a cut, so they removed their games.

Modifié par Unit-Alpha, 16 janvier 2012 - 04:54 .

[Archaven]

I refused to believe a publisher net profit is just 15-20USD per boxed game. Are there factual financial reports on that? Also, part of the logic DD then should be cheaper not same priced as retail.

[Ryzaki]

Archaven wrote...

I refused to believe a publisher net profit is just 15-20USD per boxed game. Are there factual financial reports on that? Also, part of the logic DD then should be cheaper not same priced as retail.

It should be. But they know the people will pay the same price and they'll make a bigger profit so they go ahead and do it anyway.

[Zannana]

Incognito JC wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

And people like you have been conveniently ignoring evidence and logic that does not prove your claims.

I'd very much love to hear how you heroicly stood up to your employer though that sounds like a rip roaring affair.

Do not use that condescending tone with that ignorant sentence. We do not ignore evidence. If you bothered reading most of the thread, EVIDENCE, has showed that Origin did scan all over our PC with unknown intentions. Origin, does not do it NOW. All the test shows is that it may be safe to use now, but they did it before, they might do it again.

Please, I would love to see you twist my words again. Are you really arguing for the sake of arguing? My original post was a simple, "I hope they would...".

I never said it was heroic to stand up against my employer. Maybe I am lucky, but my employer(s) expects us to interact with them as a peer, it encourages creativity. If you do not have such luxury of an employer, my condolences.

Not everything must be a screaming match. We are civilised, we can have conversations and present ideas. That is what Bioware could do, present EA with the reactions of the consumers as seen in the forums and propose an alternative (aka mandatory use of Origin for physical copy owners who want to play only sp).

[Dovahzaan]

IsaacShep wrote...

Vendrium wrote...

Well guys we have several options - we can:

A) Keep discussing it here and hope EA actually reads 200+ pages
Create a petition
C) Not buy the game in protest
D) Rate the game extremely low on Metacritic
E) Write EA CEO John Riccitiello an e-mail (jriccitiello@ea.com)

B should be a start and we can do it now. 

Let us start a petition!

[Incognito JC]

Archaven wrote...

I refused to believe a publisher net profit is just 15-20USD per boxed game. Are there factual financial reports on that? Also, part of the logic DD then should be cheaper not same priced as retail.

A fact that most people do not realize is, reproducing digital content to sell, nets them pure profit. They do not require limited resources or material to reproduce data. Sadly, digital content will never be cheaper, because it still sells regardless.

[photographerleia]

Emoking wrote...

Amyra wrote...

What I cannot for the love of everything that's sacred understand is why I need their platform to ACCESS the game.
That's just intrusive, unnesesary and annoying. 
If I buy a physical copy of the game I shouldn't have to deal with that....

Quoted For Truth! [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie]

Agreed, This, after all, is the heart of the matter.

Modifié par photographerleia, 16 janvier 2012 - 04:57 .