5521 réponses à ce sujet

[Moondoggie]

Incognito JC wrote...

Do not use that condescending tone with that ignorant sentence. We do not ignore evidence. If you bothered reading most of the thread, EVIDENCE, has showed that Origin did scan all over our PC with unknown intentions. Origin, does not do it NOW. All the test shows is that it may be safe to use now, but they did it before, they might do it again.

Please, I would love to see you twist my words again. Are you really arguing for the sake of arguing? My original post was a simple, "I hope they would...".

I never said it was heroic to stand up against my employer. Maybe I am lucky, but my employer(s) expects us to interact with them as a peer, it encourages creativity. If you do not have such luxury of an employer, my condolences.

So basically even though they removed something that was upsetting people regardless of the fact that it didn't actually harm anything deeming them as EA put it "uneccasary scanning" you are still shouting from the rooftops because you are paranoid they will do it again?

If anything their willingless to adjust their program to ease the worries of the customer show they are willing to work with them to appease the situation.

Though i think their point of changing the program to ease customer worries has made people think if they whine enough then they can get their own way which i guess is for it to be Steam instead of Origin so they can play while saluting their lord Gabe and Valve.

[Amyra]

IsaacShep wrote...

Vendrium wrote...

Well guys we have several options - we can:

A) Keep discussing it here and hope EA actually reads 200+ pages
Create a petition
C) Not buy the game in protest
D) Rate the game extremely low on Metacritic
E) Write EA CEO John Riccitiello an e-mail (jriccitiello@ea.com)

B should be a start and we can do it now. As for E, spamming his email won't do much. We need to reach Ray Muzyka & Greg Zeschuk (co-founders of BioWare who are now heads of BioWare division and the only pople who can have any pull in EA decisions)

I agree, I don't think petitions work... but, they are the most organized way to proove a point.
spamming would be funny.... like, they annoy us with software, we annoy them with spam. It's funny, but not helpful.

[shepskisaac]

Archaven wrote...

I refused to believe a publisher net profit is just 15-20USD per boxed game. Are there factual financial reports on that?

uk.games.ign.com/articles/708/708972p1.html
vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Video_game_costs

Archaven wrote...
Also, part of the logic DD then should be cheaper not same priced as retail.

Well yeah but it's not like 95% of consumers know it so you can just keep the $60 price and get much bigger cut behind the scenes.

[Incognito JC]

Zannana wrote...

Not everything must be a screaming match. We are civilised, we can have conversations and present ideas. That is what Bioware could do, present EA with the reactions of the consumers as seen in the forums and propose an alternative (aka mandatory use of Origin for physical copy owners who want to play only sp).

This is exactly my point. Apparently, someone is suggesting that a simple proposal to EA could cost BW their job.

[outlaw1109]

Archaven wrote...

I refused to believe a publisher net profit is just 15-20USD per boxed game. Are there factual financial reports on that? Also, part of the logic DD then should be cheaper not same priced as retail.

That is more accurate than you think.  Licensing and a bunch of other things nickel and dime that $60 price tag per unit.  However, even if they only make a $10 profit per game and sell 1 million copies...that's $10 mil. profit.

[Candidate 88766]

Vendrium wrote...

Well guys we have several options - we can:

A) Keep discussing it here and hope EA actually reads 200+ pages
Create a petition
C) Not buy the game in protest
D) Rate the game extremely low on Metacritic
E) Write EA CEO John Riccitiello an e-mail (jriccitiello@ea.com)

A) Won't happen
Probably the best method - people are far more willing to sign a petition than miss out on games
C) EA made $1 billion last year just from digital sales, so this will only impact you unless you can find tens of thousands to join you in boycotting it
D) Meaningless 
E) Could make a difference if enough people did it, but it could have more of an impact if you emailed him with a widely signed petition

Is the best course of action. If you want it to have any meaningful impact, post it like Reddit or Facebook or something - you could get thousands of signatures there.

I personally play games on consoles (apart from RTS games) so Origin doesn't directly affect me, so I'm not willing to miss out on ME3. However, I don't like Origin and it sucks that PC gamers need things like that and Steam so I would be more than happy to sign a serious petition, and you could probably find hundreds if not thousands of likeminded people.

I imagine the majority of BSN would sign a petition asking for something along these lines:

'That the SP portion of ME3 only require online activation, not the installation or agreement of the Origin client'

Obviously, the MP portion will require Origin but most people are complaining about the SP requiring Origin so that would probably be enough.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 16 janvier 2012 - 05:01 .

[Alex_SM]

Moondoggie wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...


The point is that big business are the first ones who cannot understand anything that does not benefit them. 

Also,  treating big corporations as demonic is well deserved. They are the ones who treat their customers as criminals and screw them in lots of ways. Also they are the ones who try to modify laws in really anti-democratic ways just for their own good. 

You know its people like you who help people like Alex Jones and David Icke sell lots of books and why lots of people fear the world will end this year.

LolWut? 

So it's untrue that, for example, US exterior department blackamailed spanish government, due to some lobbies pressure, to change our Copyright laws? (confirmed by diplomatic cables made available public). 

Is it untrue that Obama's medical warfare plan failed due to the pressure of the private medical lobbies? 

Is it untrue that tabacco lobbies have been years hiding and discrediting every study that claimed tabacco was dangerous?

Is it untrue that energy lobbies have been years claiming climate change is bull**** and directing US energy policy?

Is it untrue that big banks twisted every possible economic regulation to steal every $ from US citizens? (Just search a bit, in 1975 1% of Americans owned 9% of American money, the other 99% owned 91% ; In 2009 1% of Americans owned 25% of American money). 

There are lots of examples happening right now, and lots of examples in the past, about how corporations work. (SOPA anyone?)

PD: Don't know who those people are. Fearing the end of the world is more like trusting big companies "bull****". 

Modifié par Alex_SM, 16 janvier 2012 - 05:12 .

[Zannana]

Moondoggie wrote...

Incognito JC wrote...

Do not use that condescending tone with that ignorant sentence. We do not ignore evidence. If you bothered reading most of the thread, EVIDENCE, has showed that Origin did scan all over our PC with unknown intentions. Origin, does not do it NOW. All the test shows is that it may be safe to use now, but they did it before, they might do it again.

Please, I would love to see you twist my words again. Are you really arguing for the sake of arguing? My original post was a simple, "I hope they would...".

I never said it was heroic to stand up against my employer. Maybe I am lucky, but my employer(s) expects us to interact with them as a peer, it encourages creativity. If you do not have such luxury of an employer, my condolences.

So basically even though they removed something that was upsetting people regardless of the fact that it didn't actually harm anything deeming them as EA put it "uneccasary scanning" you are still shouting from the rooftops because you are paranoid they will do it again?

If anything their willingless to adjust their program to ease the worries of the customer show they are willing to work with them to appease the situation.

Though i think their point of changing the program to ease customer worries has made people think if they whine enough then they can get their own way which i guess is for it to be Steam instead of Origin so they can play while saluting their lord Gabe and Valve.

It wasnt willingness. It was general outcry, people returning the games and the goverment starting an investigation since the EULA was clashing with the law.

[cdethier]

I will not be buying ME3. As a side note, this will be the first Bioware game I have not purchased since KotOR. Thank you.

[Snake Vargas]

We are intent on providing Mass Effect to players with the best possible experience no matter where they purchase or play their game

It's very disappointing that apparently Bioware thinks so little of their fans that, not only do they try and foist Origin on us, but they also try and feed us this rediculous notion that it's so they can provide better service.

Not *requiring* any launcher is the best service. Steam is a better service than Origin. Forcing Origin on their customers doesn't benefit us at all... 

Edit to add: I won't be buying ME3.

Modifié par Snake Vargas, 16 janvier 2012 - 05:01 .

[Ahglock]

Archaven wrote...

I refused to believe a publisher net profit is just 15-20USD per boxed game. Are there factual financial reports on that? Also, part of the logic DD then should be cheaper not same priced as retail.

Standard retail markup is 100%(they like to call it 50% since it cost 50% what they charge to buy it) and they usually don't get it directly form the manufacturer but from a distributor of some kind.  For exmaple in the comic book industry most reatilers buy their product from Diamond and Daimon buys it from DC/Marvel etc., and Diamond is getting a cut in this arrangement s well.  In some industries the distributors are required by law, like a liquor store can not legally purchase alchohol from a beer company they have to buy it from a distributor.(US law)

[Incognito JC]

Moondoggie wrote...

So basically even though they removed something that was upsetting people regardless of the fact that it didn't actually harm anything deeming them as EA put it "uneccasary scanning" you are still shouting from the rooftops because you are paranoid they will do it again?

If anything their willingless to adjust their program to ease the worries of the customer show they are willing to work with them to appease the situation.

Though i think their point of changing the program to ease customer worries has made people think if they whine enough then they can get their own way which i guess is for it to be Steam instead of Origin so they can play while saluting their lord Gabe and Valve.

From your logic, this world would be free of repeat offenders. Criminals should deserve to be free with just an apology. Heck, probation time isn't necessary by that logic.

Another thing you missed out on is, they evaded the claims instead of adressing them directly to assure the confidence of the consumers. This is also the same corporation that kept changing their EULA around.

I do not support Steam like you think. You are misleading our discussion. I do support the fact that people that buy the physical copy should not be imposed with a DD program that is unecessary. Making Origin optional definitely isn't a hard thing to do, nor would they lose anymore sales than they already did. Happy now?

[Amyra]

cdethier wrote...

I will not be buying ME3. As a side note, this will be the first Bioware game I have not purchased since KotOR. Thank you.

I want to add, probably not your case, that many people won't be buying the game, but that doesn't mean they won't be playing it.
That's the response when you get your customers so annoyed that they just won't support you anymore.

Just something for EA to think about.

[chance52]

Incognito JC wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

And people like you have been conveniently ignoring evidence and logic that does not prove your claims.

I'd very much love to hear how you heroicly stood up to your employer though that sounds like a rip roaring affair.

Do not use that condescending tone with that ignorant sentence. We do not ignore evidence. If you bothered reading most of the thread, EVIDENCE, has showed that Origin did scan all over our PC with unknown intentions. Origin, does not do it NOW. All the test shows is that it may be safe to use now, but they did it before, they might do it again.

Sorry but 'no' they will do it again. 

Otherwise what was the point of all the deleted references to sandboxing the program over the last few months?  Notice I wrote 'deleted' not 'locked' because in a locked thread people would still be able to read about a legal option to protect ourselves from the very thing EA now claims not to do... you know until time passes and they start up again.

[Incognito JC]

chance52 wrote...

Sorry but 'no' they will do it again. 

Otherwise what was the point of all the deleted references to sandboxing the program over the last few months?  Notice I wrote 'deleted' not 'locked' because in a locked thread people would still be able to read about a legal option to protect ourselves from the very thing EA now claims not to do... you know until time passes and they start up again.

I dare not claim that they will, just a posibility. Otherwise, some people would say we have extreme paranoia because we wouldn't touch a boiling kettle after we got burned.

[GethTheBeherith]

Oh well, this means no ME3 for me. Not until the Steam version will be released, at least... *le sigh*

[outlaw1109]

Moondoggie wrote...

Incognito JC wrote...

Do not use that condescending tone with that ignorant sentence. We do not ignore evidence. If you bothered reading most of the thread, EVIDENCE, has showed that Origin did scan all over our PC with unknown intentions. Origin, does not do it NOW. All the test shows is that it may be safe to use now, but they did it before, they might do it again.

Please, I would love to see you twist my words again. Are you really arguing for the sake of arguing? My original post was a simple, "I hope they would...".

I never said it was heroic to stand up against my employer. Maybe I am lucky, but my employer(s) expects us to interact with them as a peer, it encourages creativity. If you do not have such luxury of an employer, my condolences.

So basically even though they removed something that was upsetting people regardless of the fact that it didn't actually harm anything deeming them as EA put it "uneccasary scanning" you are still shouting from the rooftops because you are paranoid they will do it again?

If anything their willingless to adjust their program to ease the worries of the customer show they are willing to work with them to appease the situation.

Though i think their point of changing the program to ease customer worries has made people think if they whine enough then they can get their own way which i guess is for it to be Steam instead of Origin so they can play while saluting their lord Gabe and Valve.

The argument here isn't that they are still doing or even that they HAVE done it, but simply that there are a group of people who...how do I say this...

Basically, they don't like that EA has the power to repeat what they have done in the past, regardless of what is currently happening.  They don't trust EA and they believe that we're seeing them play nice while there is public scrutiny.  When the public eye looks away, they're afraid EA will resume mining operations... 
It's understandable in the least, but not my personal position as I argued the point last night. 

Please, don't flame me if it's not 100% to the T accurate.....

[MarauderESP]

Emoking wrote...

Zannana wrote...

Vendrium wrote...

Well guys we have several options - we can:

A) Keep discussing it here and hope EA actually reads 200+ pages
Create a petition
C) Not buy the game in protest
D) Rate the game extremely low on Metacritic
E) Write EA CEO John Riccitiello an e-mail (jriccitiello@ea.com)

I choose A,C and D. And if there is a will, I can also participate in B.
Also, we have started a group, as seen by my signature

I choose A, and C, and will certainly put my name to B if it existed.

And, when I have had food, I might also do E.

NO FOOD FOR U TILL E IS DONE U MAGOT..........

i ll go with A, B, C, i dont trust in metawhatever

[Zannana]

chance52 wrote...

Incognito JC wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

And people like you have been conveniently ignoring evidence and logic that does not prove your claims.

I'd very much love to hear how you heroicly stood up to your employer though that sounds like a rip roaring affair.

Do not use that condescending tone with that ignorant sentence. We do not ignore evidence. If you bothered reading most of the thread, EVIDENCE, has showed that Origin did scan all over our PC with unknown intentions. Origin, does not do it NOW. All the test shows is that it may be safe to use now, but they did it before, they might do it again.

Sorry but 'no' they will do it again. 

Otherwise what was the point of all the deleted references to sandboxing the program over the last few months?  Notice I wrote 'deleted' not 'locked' because in a locked thread people would still be able to read about a legal option to protect ourselves from the very thing EA now claims not to do... you know until time passes and they start up again.

I am still curious to know why we can play the game off-line while Origin is inactive but we cant (apparently) uninstall it after first authentication.Strange? I find it so.

[Ahglock]

Alex_SM wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...


The point is that big business are the first ones who cannot understand anything that does not benefit them. 

Also,  treating big corporations as demonic is well deserved. They are the ones who treat their customers as criminals and screw them in lots of ways. Also they are the ones who try to modify laws in really anti-democratic ways just for their own good. 

You know its people like you who help people like Alex Jones and David Icke sell lots of books and why lots of people fear the world will end this year.

LolWut? 

So it's untrue that, for example, US exterior department blackamailed spanish government, due to some lobbies pressure, to change our Copyright laws? (confirmed by diplomatic cables made available public). 

It's untrue that Obama's medical warfare plan failed due to the pressure of the private medical lobbies? 

It's untrue that tabacco lobbies have been years hiding and discrediting every study that claimed tabacco was dangerous?

It's untrue that energy lobbies have been years claiming climate change is bull**** and directing US energy policy?

It's untrue that big banks twisted every possible economic regulation to steal every $ from US citizens? (Just search a bit, in 1975 1% of Americans owned 9% of American money, the other 99% owned 91% ; In 2009 1% of Americans owned 25% of American money). 

There are lots of examples happening right now, and lots of examples in the past, about how corporations work. (SOPA anyone?)

PD: Don't know who those people are. Fearing the end of the world is more like trusting big companies "bull****". 

Can we try to avoid political rants from either side of the spectrum.  

[Moondoggie]

Incognito JC wrote...

chance52 wrote...

Sorry but 'no' they will do it again. 

Otherwise what was the point of all the deleted references to sandboxing the program over the last few months?  Notice I wrote 'deleted' not 'locked' because in a locked thread people would still be able to read about a legal option to protect ourselves from the very thing EA now claims not to do... you know until time passes and they start up again.

I dare not claim that they will, just a posibility. Otherwise, some people would say we have extreme paranoia because we wouldn't touch a boiling kettle after we got burned.

And yet you probably use Facebook and many other programs freely that have been found passing your details to third parties yet as of yet no proof exists to say anything scanned by Origin beyond game information it finds is stored anywhere on it's servers or that anyone can access any information that identifies you personally from information collected.

This isn't a boiling kettle this is the monkey that died after eating a few berries  from a heart attack and all the other monkies assumed it was the berries and refuses to eat those perfectly edible berries they had eaten before again.

[Dovahzaan]

Obviously some mods are lurking around, so tell me please: why did you unsticky this thread but the pre-order bonus thread still remains stickied. If they want to talk about pre order bonuses, they can, no need to sticky it. Am I right, Chris? -.-

Modifié par Dovahzaan, 16 janvier 2012 - 05:10 .

[Candidate 88766]

Alex_SM wrote...

Moondoggie wrote...

Alex_SM wrote...


The point is that big business are the first ones who cannot understand anything that does not benefit them. 

Also,  treating big corporations as demonic is well deserved. They are the ones who treat their customers as criminals and screw them in lots of ways. Also they are the ones who try to modify laws in really anti-democratic ways just for their own good. 

You know its people like you who help people like Alex Jones and David Icke sell lots of books and why lots of people fear the world will end this year.

LolWut? 

So it's untrue that, for example, US exterior department blackamailed spanish government, due to some lobbies pressure, to change our Copyright laws? (confirmed by diplomatic cables made available public). 

It's untrue that Obama's medical warfare plan failed due to the pressure of the private medical lobbies? 

It's untrue that tabacco lobbies have been years hiding and discrediting every study that claimed tabacco was dangerous?

It's untrue that energy lobbies have been years claiming climate change is bull**** and directing US energy policy?

It's untrue that big banks twisted every possible economic regulation to steal every $ from US citizens? (Just search a bit, in 1975 1% of Americans owned 9% of American money, the other 99% owned 91% ; In 2009 1% of Americans owned 25% of American money). 

There are lots of examples happening right now, and lots of examples in the past, about how corporations work. (SOPA anyone?)

PD: Don't know who those people are. Fearing the end of the world is more like trusting big companies "bull****". 

That says far more about the government than the companies.

Also, a company like EA is far too small to do something like that. Pharaceutical, tobacco and oil companies are giants compared to a videogame publisher.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Moondoggie wrote...

Incognito JC wrote...

Do not use that condescending tone with that ignorant sentence. We do not ignore evidence. If you bothered reading most of the thread, EVIDENCE, has showed that Origin did scan all over our PC with unknown intentions. Origin, does not do it NOW. All the test shows is that it may be safe to use now, but they did it before, they might do it again.

Please, I would love to see you twist my words again. Are you really arguing for the sake of arguing? My original post was a simple, "I hope they would...".

I never said it was heroic to stand up against my employer. Maybe I am lucky, but my employer(s) expects us to interact with them as a peer, it encourages creativity. If you do not have such luxury of an employer, my condolences.

So basically even though they removed something that was upsetting people regardless of the fact that it didn't actually harm anything deeming them as EA put it "uneccasary scanning" you are still shouting from the rooftops because you are paranoid they will do it again?

If anything their willingless to adjust their program to ease the worries of the customer show they are willing to work with them to appease the situation.

Though i think their point of changing the program to ease customer worries has made people think if they whine enough then they can get their own way which i guess is for it to be Steam instead of Origin so they can play while saluting their lord Gabe and Valve.

Study the behavioral history of companies looking to datamine from their users, such as Facebook. 

The fact that Origin's digging might be limited at this moment is entirely meaningless.  It was doing it, and the risk that EA will revert Origin to doing it again is too high.  Their older EULA made their motives clear -- they see an additional revenue stream here in selling information about their customers, and in pushing tailored advertising to their customers. 

Never mind that for physical retail copies, there's simply no need for Origin and EA is tryingn to force useless additional software onto their paying customers.


PS:  I don't use Steam, and this "Gabe" person can go take a long walk off a short pier for all I give a damn.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 16 janvier 2012 - 05:13 .

[chance52]

Incognito JC wrote...

chance52 wrote...

Sorry but 'no' they will do it again. 

Otherwise what was the point of all the deleted references to sandboxing the program over the last few months?  Notice I wrote 'deleted' not 'locked' because in a locked thread people would still be able to read about a legal option to protect ourselves from the very thing EA now claims not to do... you know until time passes and they start up again.

I dare not claim that they will, just a posibility. Otherwise, some people would say we have extreme paranoia because we wouldn't touch a boiling kettle after we got burned.

They will also claim that our paranoia comes from having pirated water in the kettle to start with and that is the real reason we don't want to touch it.