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Origin and Mass Effect 3


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#1701
Ryzaki

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Marionetten wrote...

fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

The feeling I'm getting is, is everyone mainly upset with it on moral grounds or is anyone actually genuinely concerned with prevacy?

For me it's both. I don't use facebook or anything like it and I'm extremely careful about where I put personal information. That said, I also don't like this development in the industry. How long will it take before all publishers have their own platforms forcing us to install millions of different clients and jump through even more hoops? As a legitimate consumer I'm just tired of having to deal with all of this.


The bolded is what I worry about.

#1702
ShaneP

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RaenImrahl wrote...

Sandboxing:  I suppose the use of such software *could* be a way to circumvent DRM, etc.  So let's agree, for now at least, to avoid any more "how to" guides on the subject, okay?  Meantime I'll message Chris and ask him to, at some point, address Bioware/EA's stance on the use of Origin with a virtual environment.


Sorry, but no. Nobody with any technical knowledge would make this claim. All that sandboxing does is makes applications run in a way that prevents them accessing parts of your computer's filesystem outside of their root folder, basically all that it does is stops them from going rogue and gaining access to data that they shouldn't. Almost all DRM in games these days works in one of 2 ways, it either performs a legitimacy check of the optical disk that the product was installed from by various means, or contacts an internet server to verify that you're using a correct licence key (or in the cases of apps like Steam or Origin whether your account has access to the game you're launching / downloading). There is no way that sandboxing could be used to facilitate any forms of piracy, nor could it circumvent any of the technical copy protection features implemented into most games. With all due respect, if you're going to implement a policy of censoring people, don't do it based on a faulty assimilation of facts.

And with regards to the issue of this thread, the use of Origin for ME3, I like a few other members have used process explorer to keep my eyes on Origin (and for the sake of comparison Steam as well) and I found the claim that it scans your hard drives for pirated games to be totally without merit, I saw neither Steam nor Origin accessing anything that they shouldn't be. The level of fearmongering against Origin is extreme to say the least, and my look into this issues suggests that all of the claims made are simply false. If people dislike origin it's their right to do so, however don't spread faulty assertions, it just wastes people's time. I still plan to pre-order the collector's edition of ME3 and I plan to enjoy it. So far I have played BF3 (which Intel kindly provided me free with the purchase of my i7-2700K), and I have yet to play Burnout Paradise 2 (also free, thanks to a promotion EA kindly put up). I have had no problems with Origin. It hasn't crashed, and it hasn't caused me any performance issues either. I will admit that I do believe that Steam is better, however I find Origin works just fine for it's intended purpose.

What, however I do take issue with are statements like this:

However, I really do not accept the criticism that WE, BioWare and EA, are wrong for not offering it on Steam. We would like to offer it on Steam. We used to have a good relationship with Steam. The more stores and digital retailers who sell our games, the more customers can buy the games and the money we can make. We are working with digital retailers like Direct2Drive and others so we are not Origin exclusive by any means. Unfortunately, Steam changed their policies and we are currently not able to come to an agreement that allows us to be on Steam. We were on Steam for ME2. We were on Steam for Dragon Age II until we had to remove it, again because Steam changed their policies. We would be on Steam now if their policies allowed us to be there. I do not know if a significant number of fans complaining to Steam that they want Mass Effect 3 to be on Steam will have an effect or not, but it certainly will not hurt. Steam is a great service and I would hope that we will work with them if it becomes possible for us to do so. 


I'm sorry if it seems to some that I'm being a bit blunt, but frankly I think this PRish crap is an insult to all of Bioware's fans because the honest truth is that Valve only stated that the DLC for games should be offered through steam, not that steam was the only platform that DLC could be shipped with, but that buying the DLC through Steam had to be one of the options. The reason that this offer was rejected was actually due to an exclusivity deal that EA had signed for DLC with another download service, so the reality of the situation is that both Valve and EA must share a part of the blame for this eventuality. These PRish attempts to shift the blame onto Valve just don't cut it in my opinion, EA need to stand up and accept their portion of the blame too. Because in the end the only people losing out are the gamers, and presenting your loyal fans with a deceptively one sided explanation is just distasteful.

#1703
Mister Mida

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fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...

The feeling I'm getting is, is everyone mainly upset with it on moral grounds or is anyone actually genuinely concerned with prevacy?
Also this thread is strangely entertaining. We havent has something like this since DA2.

If the privacy matter was non-existent, I'd still object. I've no use for useless DRM clients, whether it's Origin, Steam, Impulse, whatever, where I need to ask permission just to play a game, especially when it even fails in its purpose.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:19 .


#1704
ttchip

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is it just me or are the last few pages somewhat reasonable, rational discussion instead of the overdone drama we had for the first 60 ones?

im kinda astonished, guys.

Modifié par ttchip, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:19 .


#1705
Adugan

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RaenImrahl wrote...

Sandboxing:  I suppose the use of such software *could* be a way to circumvent DRM, etc.  So let's agree, for now at least, to avoid any more "how to" guides on the subject, okay?  Meantime I'll message Chris and ask him to, at some point, address Bioware/EA's stance on the use of Origin with a virtual environment.



RaenImrahl, I already asked Chris. After a single vague response, he started ignoring my PMs on that subject.

Modifié par Adugan, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:19 .


#1706
_purifico_

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Pre-order cancelled. Pitty too as ME's universe has been fun. Oh well, lots of other good origin-free games to play.

Modifié par _purifico_, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:20 .


#1707
Ryzaki

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abaris wrote...
In my case both actually. First, if I can help it, I don't invite anything collecting any data into my computer. Now I'm not saying, they're using that data for some dark undisclosed purposes. But I'm not interested in getting offers from them either. I don't want them to try to figure out my habits, my likes and dislikes.

Same goes for every company. If I want to buy something I make a conscious decision and the last thing I want are some offers. What's more, I'm not interested in automatic patches. I want my patches here on my hard drive, ready to install and not having to download them each time I reinstall my product.

Last, but not least. They don't offer anything of value in return. I'm not into multiplayer, I'm not into chatting, I'm not into social networking. So it boils down to some useless client, opening a backdoor that can be abused if they were to be hacked. Which happened already to other major players on the market.


This yeah. Plus that useless client is just hogging resources.

In Exile wrote...

Insofar as the non-MMO, SP style aspect
is concerned, it's your usual Bioware fare with with more open world
(TW2 style). It's not incredible by any stretch, but it's not a bad
game. IMO, ignoring the combat system, it's sort of what DA2 could have
been.


That doesn't sound too bad.

Mister Mida wrote...
If
the privacy matter was non-existent, I'd still object. I've no use for
useless DRM clients, whether it's Origin, Steam, Impulse, whatever,
where I need to ask permission just to play a game, especially when it
even fails in its purpose.


Same.

Issue: 

Why do I have to download a DD client (when I bought the game in a physical box from a brick and mortar store)? I'm not gonna use said DD client, it's just taking up space on my comp as well as using resources to maintain itself that could be going towards something more useful that I actually use. (Like the game itself).

And the more and more clients come out...the more and more resources get used that aren't even necessary. I don't use Steam, I'm not gonna use Origin, and so on.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:25 .


#1708
Thoth_Amon

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fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb wrote...
The feeling I'm getting is, is everyone mainly upset with it on moral grounds or is anyone actually genuinely concerned with prevacy?
Also this thread is strangely entertaining. We havent has something like this since DA2.


I am morally opposed to EA throwing their weight around in a market they haven't given a crap about until last year and doing so in a very anti-consumer fashion.  If the game was truly Origin exclusive, I'd be okay with it but when it's available everywhere but Steam I do have a problem.

#1709
Incognito JC

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Ottemis wrote...

Yeah that it's there is logical enough, but it escalating in responce is the part where people should put their foots down individually ideally. Because if we don't, it'll just get worse.
It's the difference between respecting or trusting someone while not knowing them, or not respecting/ trusting them because you don't. That's not about what is realistic, it's about the person you do or don't want to become.


This is a lame phrase, but; people are who they are. Then again, you'll never really know someone, will you? There is no individuality in trusting a corporation such as EA, they are an entity that's there to earn a profit regardless. Sometimes, an escalating response is better than no response. People see strength in numbers. Putting one's foot down just to go against the flow do not make them individuals, they are just trying to stand out for the sake of faux-individuality.

Edit: This is so off-topic, if you are interested in discussing this, we should proceed on PM :P

Modifié par Incognito JC, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:21 .


#1710
Pixieking

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ShaneP wrote...

These PRish attempts to shift the blame onto Valve just don't cut it in my opinion, EA need to stand up and accept their portion of the blame too. Because in the end the only people losing out are the gamers, and presenting your loyal fans with a deceptively one sided explanation is just distasteful.


Yup. +1

I would also add that, when EA say things in the future, people will be less likely to believe them, due to their deceptive PR-speak in the past. Human nature and all that.

#1711
Fredvdp

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Incognito JC wrote...

KingDan97 wrote...

Generally with bug related exploits in MMOs, you're only punished if you exploit them to irrational degrees(going through high level instances and just dancing when you get low on health).


While that is understandable, a permanent ban without even the first warning was uncalled for.

Also, found the link to the official response.

I believe this was confirmed to be fake.

#1712
ItsFreakinJesus

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lol @ anyone not expecting this to be the case and cancelling pre-orders because of it.

#1713
Incognito JC

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Fredvdp wrote...

I believe this was confirmed to be fake.


Ah, is it? I didn't know. This has been circulating on news articles, I just assumed that they've checked their sources.

#1714
IhateEA-Mask

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Ottemis wrote...

IhateEA-Mask wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Eh privacy isn't the kicker.

It's the fact that I have to have Origin (a DD service) installed for a game I bought in a physical box at a brick and mortar store. It's completely useless to me and a waste of space and time spent downloading it/installing it.


Excactly. Espicially since only game for me there will be ME 3 ;P

So you're only against Origin because 'Steam did it first'?


Nah, I hate EA for other reasons =P My point was that I'd rather not have multiple different shop programs(dunno official name, digital distruption program? Whatever Steam and Origins when downloaded on computer are called officially...) espicially when I'm only going to use one of them for actually shopping games.

#1715
ShaneP

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Emoking wrote...
Yup. +1

I would also add that, when EA say things in the future, people will be less likely to believe them, due to their deceptive PR-speak in the past. Human nature and all that.


Agreed. The fact that Bioware's staff are siding with them will reduce their credibility as well. It's sad to see it come to dishonesty because they make fantastic games.

#1716
Fredvdp

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Incognito JC wrote...

Fredvdp wrote...

I believe this was confirmed to be fake.


Ah, is it? I didn't know. This has been circulating on news articles, I just assumed that they've checked their sources.

I believe the Escapist updated their article to say it was probably fake. Authorized "dance zones" kinda gives it away.

#1717
Incognito JC

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Fredvdp wrote...

I believe the Escapist updated their article to say it was probably fake. Authorized "dance zones" kinda gives it away.


Ah, okay, thanks for the correction. I actually had a laugh because of the "dance zone", and how ridiculous it was.

#1718
Ryzaki

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Fredvdp wrote...

Incognito JC wrote...

Fredvdp wrote...

I believe this was confirmed to be fake.


Ah, is it? I didn't know. This has been circulating on news articles, I just assumed that they've checked their sources.

I believe the Escapist updated their article to say it was probably fake. Authorized "dance zones" kinda gives it away.


:lol: that does sound pretty odd.

#1719
Sundance31us

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Emoking wrote...
Quote? Where exactly?
Btw, the SSA (which is Steam's version of Origin's EULA)
http://store.steampo...iber_agreement/


That's the Subscriber Agreement, there's a Privacy Policy also.

Valve Privacy Policy
http://www.valvesoft...om/privacy.html

Collection and Use of Information
By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, as defined below. Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Valve shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.


Edit: Privacy Policy, not agreement.

Modifié par Sundance31us, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:27 .


#1720
ItsFreakinJesus

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ShaneP wrote...

Emoking wrote...
Yup. +1

I would also add that, when EA say things in the future, people will be less likely to believe them, due to their deceptive PR-speak in the past. Human nature and all that.


Agreed. The fact that Bioware's staff are siding with them will reduce their credibility as well. It's sad to see it come to dishonesty because they make fantastic games.

Bioware staff aren't siding with anyone, it's a PR post. 

#1721
RaenImrahl

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Thank you for your very considered, well-written opinion.  To clarify...

ShaneP wrote...

Sorry, but no. Nobody with any technical knowledge would make this claim.


I don't claim to have any technical knowledge regarding "sandboxing".  Or how DRM software works, for that matter.

ShaneP wrote...

With all due respect, if you're going to implement a policy of censoring people, don't do it based on a faulty assimilation of facts.


If you refer to my original post, I simply asked people not to address the specifics of *how* to install sandboxing software in the topic thread.  That, specifically, is beyond the bounds of our current discussion.

EDIT:  Adding... this has, as some have noted, been a fairly positive and productive conversation.  Let's keep it up!

Thanks,

RI

(also edited for spelling.  time for more coffee).

Modifié par RaenImrahl, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:31 .


#1722
Dovahzaan

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I wonder if BioWare expected this reaction. I mean 1700 posts in one day. For the first time I have to say I'm proud of you BSN. :P

#1723
ShaneP

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RaenImrahl wrote...
If you refer to my orgininal post, I simply asked people not to address the specifics of *how* to install sandboxing software in the topic thread.  That, specifically, is beyond the bounds of our current discussion.


So it's basically a "don't derail the thread thing?" fair enough then, sorry for the misunderstanding.

#1724
aridor1570

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Dovahzaan wrote...

I wonder if BioWare expected this reaction. I mean 1700 posts in one day. For the first time I have to say I'm proud of you BSN. :P


Multiplayer.

#1725
Weiser_Cain

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I've calmed down anfd now I think it's only a matter of time before it comes out on Steam.
Think about it, they're in this to make money, end of the day. Steam is the biggest digital distributor out there. After an exclusivity period (long or short) it'll come out. Physical PC version is probably screwed though.