5521 réponses à ce sujet

[RaenImrahl]

ShaneP wrote...

RaenImrahl wrote...
If you refer to my orgininal post, I simply asked people not to address the specifics of *how* to install sandboxing software in the topic thread.  That, specifically, is beyond the bounds of our current discussion.

So it's basically a "don't derail the thread thing?" fair enough then, sorry for the misunderstanding.

We're good.  Carry on. 

[Pixieking]

Sundance31us wrote...

Emoking wrote...
Quote? Where exactly?
Btw, the SSA (which is Steam's version of Origin's EULA)
http://store.steampo...iber_agreement/

That's the Subscriber Agreement, there's a Privacy Policy also.

Valve Privacy Policy
http://www.valvesoft...om/privacy.html

Collection and Use of Information
By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, as defined below. Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Valve shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.

Edit: Privacy Policy, not agreement.

Well, the claim was that Steam scanned people's computers, like Origin, was it not? Without authorisation? And the only thing I can see there with that relevance, is the bug report (which is standard fare).


Edit:

Original claim added here, for ease of reading:

Melchiah109 wrote...

Steam's scans aren't optional either.
That's one of the things people have been getting a lot of
misinformation about, I've noticed. The surveys they ask you about are
not part of their normal operations, they are meant to gather hardware
data from people's machines. However, there is a clause in the Valve
policies that basically says the same exact thing as Origin's.

Like I say above, I see nothing either in the SSA, or the Privacy Policy about anything like that,

Modifié par Emoking, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:35 .

[Ryzaki]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

I've calmed down anfd now I think it's only a matter of time before it comes out on Steam.
Think about it, they're in this to make money, end of the day. Steam is the biggest digital distributor out there. After an exclusivity period (long or short) it'll come out. Physical PC version is probably screwed though.

I guess I can wait for steam. It's not like I didn't already deal with it for Skyrim.

[Adugan]

RaenImrahl wrote...

Thank you for your very considered, well-written opinion.  To clarify...

ShaneP wrote...

Sorry, but no. Nobody with any technical knowledge would make this claim.

I don't claim to have any technical knowledge regarding "sandboxing".  Or how DRM software works, for that matter.

ShaneP wrote...

With all due respect, if you're going to implement a policy of censoring people, don't do it based on a faulty assimilation of facts.

If you refer to my orgininal post, I simply asked people not to address the specifics of *how* to install sandboxing software in the topic thread.  That, specifically, is beyond the bounds of our current discussion.

EDIT:  Adding... this has, as some have noted, been a fairly positive and productive conversation.  Let's keep it up!

Thanks,

RI

Just mentioning the word Sandbox is pretty self-explanatory. Anyone with a working brain can then google it and easily find out how to do install/use it. 

[shepskisaac]

Dovahzaan wrote...

I wonder if BioWare expected this reaction. I mean 1700 posts in one day. For the first time I have to say I'm proud of you BSN. 

It's the same reaction as with BF3. And it's gonna be the same drama when the game releases. EA blew it right at the beginning. Origin's never gonna be trusted until EA takes actual steps to earn trust from the the gamers. Valve didn't magically got 40 million users. They worked their butts off to prove they can be trusted. What EA does? Releases PR statements that change nothings in EULA and in the way the program works. That won't cut it.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:33 .

[abaris]

Weiser_Cain wrote...

I've calmed down anfd now I think it's only a matter of time before it comes out on Steam.

No, because they want to promote their own business model. And it's nearly risk free. At the one hand, the console market will ensure there's a profit anyway and at the other, enough PC people don't think anything of signing that EULA.

steam is a thing not going to happen.

[Baron_Noir]

Well, you can add me to the list of players who bought ME1 & 2, as well as DA, and won't be getting ME3.
I don't want to encourage a situation where we're all forced to install dozens of clients to get our DD games on PC. Plus I don't like the way EA has been (in my eyes) destroying the quality of great studios they bought over the years.

[Koremark]

Question about Origin in regards to Multiplayer.

Will it be used to stop hacks being used in multiplayer ?

[ETermin]

That's the Subscriber Agreement, there's a Privacy Policy also.

[quote]Valve Privacy Policy
http://www.valvesoft...om/privacy.html

Collection and Use of Information
By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, as defined below. Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Valve shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.[/quote]

Edit: Privacy Policy, not agreement.

[/quote]

[/quote]"Aggregate information" is information that describes the habits, usage patterns, and demographics of users as a group but does not describe or reveal the identity of any particular user.

[/quote]

such ass steam user account, play time data, and steamguard check.

[/quote]"Individual information" is information about a user that is presented in a form distinguishable from information relating to other users but not in a form that personally identifies any user or enables the recipient to communicate directly with any user unless agreed to by the user in advance of such communication. This information may be used to improve Valve's products and online sites, for internal marketing studies, or simply to collect demographic information about Valve's users. 

[/quote]

yes it includes th ip adrress to check for steamguard, and sales demographics. also what price the game was bought at to correlate sales prices.


before you say I am defending steam. No i am not a fan of it but it provides my friends and I a way to communicate with multiplayer games such as Left 4 Dead 2. A major point is that Steam does not go around scanning every byte of data.

Modifié par ETermin, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:34 .

[Mister Mida]

IsaacShep wrote...
It's the same reaction as with BF3. And it's gonna be the same drama when the game releases. EA blew it right at the beginning. Origin's never gonna be trusted until EA takes actual steps to earn trust from the the gamers. Valve didn't magically got 40 million users. They worked their butts off to prove they can be trusted. What EA does? Releases PR statements that change nothings in EULA and in the way the program works. That won't cut it.

Steam's got 40M accounts, that's something else than users.

[shepskisaac]

Mister Mida wrote...

Steam's got 40M accounts, that's something else than users.

Whatever, they've got milions of active users and the majority of DD market. Along with forcing Steam in Valve games, they also did everything to ensure people they can be trusted. EA is only forcing Origin, without taking any steps to gain trust.

[slimgrin]

IsaacShep wrote...

Dovahzaan wrote...

I wonder if BioWare expected this reaction. I mean 1700 posts in one day. For the first time I have to say I'm proud of you BSN. 

It's the same reaction as with BF3. And it's gonna be the same drama when the game releases. EA blew it right at the beginning. Origin's never gonna be trusted until EA takes actual steps to earn trust from the the gamers. Valve didn't magically got 40 million users. They worked their butts off to prove they can be trusted. What EA does? Releases PR statements that change nothings in EULA and in the way the program works. That won't cut it.

Pretty much this. Steam, while I still don't like it on my PC, has done much to attract loyal gamers for years now. If Origin intends to compete directly, they've gotten off to the worst possible start.

Modifié par slimgrin, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:37 .

[Adain878]

Ill toss my two cents in here. If they go forward with this I just won't buy it. I gave Origin a try with BF3 and found it completely worthless. Add in the how the Bioware name is becoming diluted, the rushed excuse for a game that DA2 was, and just the general position EA has taken when it comes to their customers I'm more than willing to pass on ME3.

I'm a steam fanboy, I'll admit that. I've had nothing but a stellar experience using Steam while my time with Origin was more than lacking.

So pretty much my 60$ is on the table, they'll have to me meet me half way to get it. They've used up all the good will I'm willing to give them as a company/publisher.

[Mister Mida]

IsaacShep wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Steam's got 40M accounts, that's something else than users.

Whatever, they've got milions of active users and the majority of DD market. Along with forcing Steam in Valve games, they also did everything to ensure people they can be trusted. EA is only forcing Origin, without taking any steps to gain trust.

So as long as trust is gained, forcing stuff on people is okay?

[Incognito JC]

Koremark wrote...

Question about Origin in regards to Multiplayer.

Will it be used to stop hacks being used in multiplayer ?

I can't answer the question, but I do not think hacking the game here would be that big of a deal when there is no competitive mode to grief other players..

[Pixieking]

Mister Mida wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
It's the same reaction as with BF3. And it's gonna be the same drama when the game releases. EA blew it right at the beginning. Origin's never gonna be trusted until EA takes actual steps to earn trust from the the gamers. Valve didn't magically got 40 million users. They worked their butts off to prove they can be trusted. What EA does? Releases PR statements that change nothings in EULA and in the way the program works. That won't cut it.

Steam's got 40M accounts, that's something else than users.

Welllll...

Every account on Steam has something on it. Whether it's a free to play game, or the entire catalogue. A lot of those may not be played on a lot; a lot may be auto-start with windows and that's it. Whetver. But every account has at least 1 game (unless someone knows more than I?  )

[Adugan]

slimgrin wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Dovahzaan wrote...

I wonder if BioWare expected this reaction. I mean 1700 posts in one day. For the first time I have to say I'm proud of you BSN. 

It's the same reaction as with BF3. And it's gonna be the same drama when the game releases. EA blew it right at the beginning. Origin's never gonna be trusted until EA takes actual steps to earn trust from the the gamers. Valve didn't magically got 40 million users. They worked their butts off to prove they can be trusted. What EA does? Releases PR statements that change nothings in EULA and in the way the program works. That won't cut it.

Pretty much this. Steam, while I still don't like it on my PC, has done much to attract loyal gamers for years now. If Origin intends to compete directly, they've gotten off to the worst possible start.

Origin's business model is completely different. They will hold games hostage and blackmail developers into releasing games only on Origin. That way, players will have no choice but to download Origin and use it to play games!

Lol, not serious. But I wouldnt be surprised if this actually happened.

Modifié par Adugan, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:39 .

[shepskisaac]

Mister Mida wrote...

So as long as trust is gained, forcing stuff on people is okay?

Trust is earned by actions, actual evidence the gamers see that the publishers cares. Not 50 "we love you" PR statements

[Ryzaki]

Mister Mida wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Steam's got 40M accounts, that's something else than users.

Whatever, they've got milions of active users and the majority of DD market. Along with forcing Steam in Valve games, they also did everything to ensure people they can be trusted. EA is only forcing Origin, without taking any steps to gain trust.

So as long as trust is gained, forcing stuff on people is okay?

Nope.

I consider both Steam and Origin s***. Steam's is at least easier to swallow though. (and both of them are probably preferable to GFWL). With Steam I can at least get something in return for putting that crap on my comp (yes I consider it crap. I don't use Steam for anything because I don't DD games.)

What exactly do I get with Origin other than the ability to play the game (that probably isn't even dependant on Origin to start with?).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:42 .

[Mister Mida]

Emoking wrote...

Welllll...

Every account on Steam has something on it. Whether it's a free to play game, or the entire catalogue. A lot of those may not be played on a lot; a lot may be auto-start with windows and that's it. Whetver. But every account has at least 1 game (unless someone knows more than I?  )

So what?

Modifié par Mister Mida, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:42 .

[Mister Mida]

IsaacShep wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

So as long as trust is gained, forcing stuff on people is okay?

Trust is earned by actions, actual evidence the gamers see that the publishers cares. Not 50 "we love you" PR statements

How is this an answer to my question?

[Adugan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

Steam's got 40M accounts, that's something else than users.

Whatever, they've got milions of active users and the majority of DD market. Along with forcing Steam in Valve games, they also did everything to ensure people they can be trusted. EA is only forcing Origin, without taking any steps to gain trust.

So as long as trust is gained, forcing stuff on people is okay?

Nope.

I consider both Steam and Origin s***. Steam's is at least easier to swallow though. (and both of them are probably preferable to GFWL).

Apparently GFWL devs got the message that they are hated and unwanted, and are trying to make GFWL actually useful and provide a good service. Too lazy to find the interview link.

[Amratis]

After scanning through just a few pages of this thread I can honestly say I have never been happier in my life that I'm a console gamer and don't have to even think about all this Origin who-ha.

[ShaneP]

The clauses about collecting data are pretty standard parts of almost any EULA for an Application capable of connecting to the Internet these days. It doesn't mean that they want to spy on you, it means they want to save themselves from stupid lawsuits. A lot of applications will send diagnostic data and statistical usage patterns back to their developers because believe it or not that data will help them iron bugs out in their applications, and provide their users with a better service. It's very rare for anything more personally identifiable than your IP address to be transmitted anyway.

I know there are a lot of bad things on the Internet but it also seems that a lot of people's levels of paranoia are extreme. I am quite happy for the programs that I use to send back a bit of data if it helps me get a better end product. I trust myself to spot malware, because as with a lot of other things in life following the following rules of thumb will get you a long way: Don't be an idiot, and if something seems too good to be true it more often than not is.

If you're basing your decision not to play ME3 solely on the fact that Origin is used you will be the ones missing out on a fantastic game. Millions of people will still buy and play the game. You're not taking a moral or ethical stance you're simply letting paranoia rule over rationality.

[Melchiah109]

Emoking wrote...

Melchiah109 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The privacy concerns at least could be solved by making it optional like steam does could it not? (the datamining at least) Preferably Origin would be optional with physical copies but...

As for the bloatware. Bleh.

Steam's scans aren't optional either. That's one of the things people have been getting a lot of misinformation about, I've noticed. The surveys they ask you about are not part of their normal operations, they are meant to gather hardware data from people's machines. However, there is a clause in the Valve policies that basically says the same exact thing as Origin's.

Quote? Where exactly?

Btw, the SSA (which is Steam's version of Origin's EULA)

http://store.steampo...iber_agreement/

http://www.valvesoft...om/privacy.html 

Modifié par Melchiah109, 14 janvier 2012 - 07:44 .