5521 réponses à ce sujet

[Luigitornado]

I don't play on PC, so this doesn't affect me.

Yay.

[Weskerr]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Weskerr wrote...

It is depressing to know that 4.5 times more games were pirated than bought (and that ratio is likely even greater), but that's the way it's always going to be. As long as there are video games, people will try to pirate them. It's wrong and dispicable, but DRMs are not the way to fix the problem (if it's even possible to fix it). "The customer is always right" is a timeless and clever business adage. Any business that fails to adhere to it will never maximize their profits.

Careful, the last time I said that I was immediately disagreed with by the majority of the thread.

Not only that, but a dev came out of lurk mode to argue with me.

Seriously?

Yeah. it was like four months ago though...


Edit: Five actually.

What you said is right on the mark :

EternalAmbiguity wrote...
the basic idea--that the customers are paying the bills, and thus the company can't just thumb their nose at them--remains true.

And good old Marshalleck is provding good commentary too I see (where is he btw?).

Brenon Holmes (awesome dev) misses the point in his post. He's disputing the adage's truth based upon what his job is. He gets paid regardless of how he treats anyone on the forums. That may be true, but the point is that if a business of any size or scope wants to be successful, then it must treat its customers with respect and in a friendly manner, and review any complaints they make seriously. Because if it does not, if the customer is not treated with respect, if the customer is not treated in a friendly manner and his/her complaints are not listened to, then that customer will be lost.

"The Customer is always right" should not be taken to its absurd literal conclusion of course, and it was never meant to be taken that far anyway. The core message is if you treat your customers right, then they will treat you right (with their money).

Modifié par Weskerr, 14 janvier 2012 - 09:40 .

[igneous.sponge]

Ugh, what fool's logic did they use to arrive at this decision? News flash, EA marketing department: shoving your much-vaunted 'platform' down our throats doesn't generate customer goodwill. Amazing, isn't it? How about showing some—oh, I don't know—respect for your customer base by promoting Origin based on its merits instead, and encouraging the—gasp!—option of evaluating it on that basis?

I guess these shameless miscreants are banking on converting the poor, ignorant slobs who live under rocks and who have no problem with dodgy EULAs, or installing the umpteenth piece of crapware on their machine, or who have never heard of things like Steam or GoG. But you have to wonder, don't you? Just what proportion of the customer base, of which we are a part, do these poor, ignorant slobs account for, exactly? Is it really worth it pissing off so many, slightly more informed customers for the chance to convert said poor slobs? Or perhaps we overestimate our significance? Perhaps we overestimate our worth, or the worth of our indignation. It doesn't seem worth awfully much to EA's illustrious marketing department, at least.

Bah.

And now BioWare's crowning installment is shackled with this garbage? Gods, when will these people learn?

Oh, I forgot. When we vote with our wallets. Money, margins, are demonstrable. You can plot them on a graph. Unfortunately, I have far too much emotion invested into this series to simply put up or shut up. Marvellous ploy, EA. Simply marvellous. And I sincerely mean that in the most uncomplimentary way possible.

Modifié par igneous.sponge, 14 janvier 2012 - 09:59 .

[Incognito JC]

Weskerr wrote...

"The Customer is always right" should not be taken to it's absurd conclusion of course, and it was never meant to be taken that far anyway. The core message is if you treat your customers right, then they will treat you right (with their money).

Agreed. Some people need to take that phrase less literally. Sometimes it had to be rephrased to; "The customer is always right, provided that they are reasonable" just so they get it.

[crimzontearz]

my link was broken earlier so here it is again.......

food for thought
penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/piracy

[Dragoonlordz]

Incognito JC wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The customer is always right is not the most timeless and clever, it is the biggest fallacy. No two customers might hold the same views on something. With a developer especially listening to all customers is fine making changes based on each customer is not. Else ME3 would be ponies for companions, shepard turned into a krogan or liara starting me3 fat and pregnant with a hanars baby.

Developers are not brainless. They won't and can't abide to ridiculous requests like what you've just said. Obviously if there is a consensus amongst the consumers, they should take it into account. Like making Origin optional.

I am a customer, I am always right. Thats what the phrase so promoted by ignorance actually 'states'. Like I said the phrase is fallacy because it simply is not true. When in reality the majority is right in this regard because the majority sales is better to have than the minorty who are oppose. Adding on additional phrase to an already bad phrase also proves this that the phrase is wrong and is not accurate.

In your example going with the majority consensus is the right path to go but suprisingly I doubt the one's who hate Origin are the majority in which case in your own words you shouldn't be listened to if that is true (I do not know which side has the majority but niether does anyone else here). What is reasonable to person (x) might not be reasonable to person (y).

In the end much like many others have said it seems to come down to four things I have noticed most.

1. People who do not want (any) additional access software (store fronts/clients and such).

2. People paraniod about privacy raging on about what they 'might do' not what they 'actually do'.
They said only scans Origin folders and files and such = http://imageshack.us...62/originr.jpg/ This appears to be true as it stands right now at this moment in time. Including thew extremely paranoid ones that actually spend more time fear mongering than anything else.

3. People who jump on the bandwagon because of mob mentality or just hate EA regardless of what do.

4. People in the middle who don't mind installing it registering than would like to uninstall it but doubtful will happen since probably required for updates, patches and for online play I am sure. Or would like an opt out of data collection whch was stated on first page though was not worded apparently well enough to resolve this for some, that there is opt out of data collection.

I myself fit in neither because I have Origin installed, I seen that it does not scan as it stands right now anything more than I am willing to let it which is files and folders associated with the game and the client. It to me is no more annoying than steam but less annoying than Ubisofts version of interface. Itdoes me no harm whatsoever and it has additional benefit of allowing me to download any game from EA I have registered for free even if bought and own retail version, the digital version can be downloaded from the client if register the retail one and if discs are lost or broken/scratched.

I find the spamming of "I will cancel this or that" or "I won't buy this or that" to be rather pointless as it stands right now from people because 99% are all bark no bite. That is how it has always been on BSN like stated earlier in thread where they have said same things every single time they get hissy over anything from figurines to femshep voting plus origin and more. I find it vastly counter-productive because with all those huffing and puffing but not actually following through on what they threaten it puts the very, very few who do follow through in the crying wolf catagory of not believed anymore.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 14 janvier 2012 - 09:53 .

[Salaya]

Whoa, what a letdown ._. I can't believe it... why do you force players that buy the retail copy to register in Origin? It is a sad way to impose something that most PC players, like me, dont want to use.

I'm really sorry Bioware, but I'm not gonna buy ME3 like this.

[Lumikki]

It will be interesting to see how much this will affect ME3 PC sales. I was thinking my self that ME3 could sell more than ME2 did, but now I'm not so sure anymore. EA really pissed off many of they customers.

They still left the Origin client data collection and forced installation. As far I have understand, the data collection option possibility is only in ME3 software side. That can mean that Origin client can still gather the hardware, OS and software related data, while ME3 is collecting actual gameplay behavior data.

Too bad, I liked a lot of Biowares games.

Modifié par Lumikki, 14 janvier 2012 - 10:06 .

[Incognito JC]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

In your example going with the majority consensus is the right path to go but suprisingly I doubt the one's who hate Origin are the majority in which case in your own words you shouldn't be listened to?

How sure are you of that? You might be the minority for all you know. We can't really tell for sure. From the general response on the sites I know of, more are against Origin than not. As for the rest of your comment, read my earlier post regarding taking that phrase too literally.

Also mentioned before, but if you have no problems with Origin, then don't post, don't bait arguments. There are many people that are pissed for whatever reason, in regards to Origin being mandatory.

[RegistrationAnnoys]

I don't want origin and I won't be buying any game that requires origin to play. EA/Bioware is not going to get any of my money for games that require Origin. As simple as that.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Incognito JC wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The customer is always right is not the most timeless and clever, it is the biggest fallacy. No two customers might hold the same views on something. With a developer especially listening to all customers is fine making changes based on each customer is not. Else ME3 would be ponies for companions, shepard turned into a krogan or liara starting me3 fat and pregnant with a hanars baby.

Developers are not brainless. They won't and can't abide to ridiculous requests like what you've just said. Obviously if there is a consensus amongst the consumers, they should take it into account. Like making Origin optional.

I am a customer, I am always right. Thats what the phrase so promoted by ignorance actually 'states'. Like I said the phrase is fallacy because it simply is not true. When in reality the majority is right in this regard because the majority sales is better to have than the minorty who are oppose. Adding on additional phrase to an already bad phrase also proves this that the phrase is wrong and is not accurate.

In your example going with the majority consensus is the right path to go but suprisingly I doubt the one's who hate Origin are the majority in which case in your own words you shouldn't be listened to if that is true (I do not know which side has the majority but niether does anyone else here). What is reasonable to person (x) might not be reasonable to person (y).

In the end much like many others have said it seems to come down to four things I have noticed most.

1. People who do not want (any) additional access software (store fronts/clients and such).

2. People paraniod about privacy raging on about what they 'might do' not what they 'actually do'.
They said only scans Origin folders and files and such = http://imageshack.us...62/originr.jpg/ This appears to be true as it stands right now at this moment in time. Including thew extremely paranoid ones that actually spend more time fear mongering than anything else.

3. People who jump on the bandwagon because of mob mentality or just hate EA regardless of what do.

4. People in the middle who don't mind installing it registering than would like to uninstall it but doubtful will happen since probably required for updates, patches and for online play I am sure.

I myself fit in neither because I have Origin installed, I seen that it does not scan as it stands right now anything more than I am willing to let it which is files and folders associated with the game and the client. It to me is no more annoying than steam but less annoying than Ubisofts version of interface. Itdoes me no harm whatsoever and it has additional benefit of allowing me to download any game from EA I have registered for free even if bought and own retail version, the digital version can be downloaded from the client if register the retail one and if discs are lost or broken/scratched.

I find the spamming of "I will cancel this or that" or "I won't buy this or that" to be rather pointless as it stands right now from people because 99% are all bark no bite. That is how it has always been on BSN like stated earlier in thread where they have said same things every single time they get hissy over anything from figurines to femshep voting plus origin and more. I find it vastly counter-productive because with all those huffing and puffing but not actually following through on what they threaten it puts the very, very few who do follow through in the crying wolf catagory of not believed anymore.

All you have shown is your own ignorance on the subject matter, without disproving others. Hypocrisy at its finest.

[Dragoonlordz]

Incognito JC wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

In your example going with the majority consensus is the right path to go but suprisingly I doubt the one's who hate Origin are the majority in which case in your own words you shouldn't be listened to?

How sure are you of that? You might be the minority for all you know. We can't really tell for sure. From the general response on the sites I know of, more are against Origin than not. As for the rest of your comment, read my earlier post regarding taking that phrase too literally.

Also mentioned before, but if you have no problems with Origin, then don't post, don't bait arguments. There are many people that are pissed for whatever reason, in regards to Origin being mandatory.

You do not silence or tell others not to have an opinion or express it just because it does not coincide with your own regardless of subject or topic. I also edited my original post at same time as you posted your response in stating niether of us know which the majority is but your own words agreed that consensus was more important than individual customer always being right.

[Sgt Stryker]

Relix28 wrote...

pc.ign.com/articles/121/1216562p1.html

This was rather fast. IGN just published the article on the subject. However, I think the first sentance in the last paragraph is slightly misleading.

"Priestly confirmed that players will be able to opt out of data collection, and refuted a question about Origin being spyware."

Why wouldn't it be misleading? IGN is a gaming journalism site, is it not?

[Dragoonlordz]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Incognito JC wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The customer is always right is not the most timeless and clever, it is the biggest fallacy. No two customers might hold the same views on something. With a developer especially listening to all customers is fine making changes based on each customer is not. Else ME3 would be ponies for companions, shepard turned into a krogan or liara starting me3 fat and pregnant with a hanars baby.

Developers are not brainless. They won't and can't abide to ridiculous requests like what you've just said. Obviously if there is a consensus amongst the consumers, they should take it into account. Like making Origin optional.

I am a customer, I am always right. Thats what the phrase so promoted by ignorance actually 'states'. Like I said the phrase is fallacy because it simply is not true. When in reality the majority is right in this regard because the majority sales is better to have than the minorty who are oppose. Adding on additional phrase to an already bad phrase also proves this that the phrase is wrong and is not accurate.

In your example going with the majority consensus is the right path to go but suprisingly I doubt the one's who hate Origin are the majority in which case in your own words you shouldn't be listened to if that is true (I do not know which side has the majority but niether does anyone else here). What is reasonable to person (x) might not be reasonable to person (y).

In the end much like many others have said it seems to come down to four things I have noticed most.

1. People who do not want (any) additional access software (store fronts/clients and such).

2. People paraniod about privacy raging on about what they 'might do' not what they 'actually do'.
They said only scans Origin folders and files and such = http://imageshack.us...62/originr.jpg/ This appears to be true as it stands right now at this moment in time. Including thew extremely paranoid ones that actually spend more time fear mongering than anything else.

3. People who jump on the bandwagon because of mob mentality or just hate EA regardless of what do.

4. People in the middle who don't mind installing it registering than would like to uninstall it but doubtful will happen since probably required for updates, patches and for online play I am sure.

I myself fit in neither because I have Origin installed, I seen that it does not scan as it stands right now anything more than I am willing to let it which is files and folders associated with the game and the client. It to me is no more annoying than steam but less annoying than Ubisofts version of interface. Itdoes me no harm whatsoever and it has additional benefit of allowing me to download any game from EA I have registered for free even if bought and own retail version, the digital version can be downloaded from the client if register the retail one and if discs are lost or broken/scratched.

I find the spamming of "I will cancel this or that" or "I won't buy this or that" to be rather pointless as it stands right now from people because 99% are all bark no bite. That is how it has always been on BSN like stated earlier in thread where they have said same things every single time they get hissy over anything from figurines to femshep voting plus origin and more. I find it vastly counter-productive because with all those huffing and puffing but not actually following through on what they threaten it puts the very, very few who do follow through in the crying wolf catagory of not believed anymore.

All you have shown is your own ignorance on the subject matter, without disproving others. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Show me where I am wrong? No? ok did not think so.

[OmegaBlue0231]

Lumikki wrote...

It will be interesting to see how much this will affect ME3 PC sales. I was thinking my self that ME3 could sell more than ME2 did, but now I'm not so sure anymore. EA really pissed off many of they customers.

They still left the Origin client data collection and forced installation. As far I have understand, the data collection option possibility is only in ME3 software side. That can mean that Origin client can still gather the hardware, OS and software related data, while ME3 is collection actual gameplay behavior data.

Too bad, I liked a lot of Biowares games.

It has hurt the PC preorder sells already, rumors have been going on for awhile now about Origin and the PC sales vs the 360 sales are horrible because of it.

In the US the PC preorder sales are 72k and the 360 sales are 450k. Even the PS3 has better preorder numbers.

Source: http://www.vgchartz.com/preorders//

[mjh417]

what a shame

[Incognito JC]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You do not silence or tell others not to have an opinion or express it just because it does not coincide with your own regardless of subject or topic. I also edited my original post at same time as you posted your response in stating niether of us know which the majority is but your own words agreed that consensus was more important than individual customer always being right.

I have no right to silence you. And I did not. I simply said not to post because you contribute nothing positive to this matter, your post will only provoke. Again, about the phrase taken literally. Might not be directly related to what we are talking about, but click on my sig's link, you might understand more of why people are annoyed by Origin.

Also you are off-topic.

Edit: Forgot to add, consensus and customers being right, are the same thing. I do not get where you are going with this.

Modifié par Incognito JC, 14 janvier 2012 - 10:03 .

[abaris]

OmegaBlue0231 wrote...

It has hurt the PC preorder sells already, rumors have been going on for awhile now about Origin and the PC sales vs the 360 sales are horrible because of it.

In the US the PC preorder sales are 72k and the 360 sales are 450k. Even the PS3 has better preorder numbers.

Source: http://www.vgchartz.com/preorders//

Just a guess, but the people being comfortable with clients and social networking and apps are probably more on the console anyway.

[Metallisika]

Thanks for letting me know.

Now I will have no problems about pirating the whole game.

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Incognito JC wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The customer is always right is not the most timeless and clever, it is the biggest fallacy. No two customers might hold the same views on something. With a developer especially listening to all customers is fine making changes based on each customer is not. Else ME3 would be ponies for companions, shepard turned into a krogan or liara starting me3 fat and pregnant with a hanars baby.

Developers are not brainless. They won't and can't abide to ridiculous requests like what you've just said. Obviously if there is a consensus amongst the consumers, they should take it into account. Like making Origin optional.

I am a customer, I am always right. Thats what the phrase so promoted by ignorance actually 'states'. Like I said the phrase is fallacy because it simply is not true. When in reality the majority is right in this regard because the majority sales is better to have than the minorty who are oppose. Adding on additional phrase to an already bad phrase also proves this that the phrase is wrong and is not accurate.

In your example going with the majority consensus is the right path to go but suprisingly I doubt the one's who hate Origin are the majority in which case in your own words you shouldn't be listened to if that is true (I do not know which side has the majority but niether does anyone else here). What is reasonable to person (x) might not be reasonable to person (y).

In the end much like many others have said it seems to come down to four things I have noticed most.

1. People who do not want (any) additional access software (store fronts/clients and such).

2. People paraniod about privacy raging on about what they 'might do' not what they 'actually do'.
They said only scans Origin folders and files and such = http://imageshack.us...62/originr.jpg/ This appears to be true as it stands right now at this moment in time. Including thew extremely paranoid ones that actually spend more time fear mongering than anything else.

3. People who jump on the bandwagon because of mob mentality or just hate EA regardless of what do.

4. People in the middle who don't mind installing it registering than would like to uninstall it but doubtful will happen since probably required for updates, patches and for online play I am sure.

I myself fit in neither because I have Origin installed, I seen that it does not scan as it stands right now anything more than I am willing to let it which is files and folders associated with the game and the client. It to me is no more annoying than steam but less annoying than Ubisofts version of interface. Itdoes me no harm whatsoever and it has additional benefit of allowing me to download any game from EA I have registered for free even if bought and own retail version, the digital version can be downloaded from the client if register the retail one and if discs are lost or broken/scratched.

I find the spamming of "I will cancel this or that" or "I won't buy this or that" to be rather pointless as it stands right now from people because 99% are all bark no bite. That is how it has always been on BSN like stated earlier in thread where they have said same things every single time they get hissy over anything from figurines to femshep voting plus origin and more. I find it vastly counter-productive because with all those huffing and puffing but not actually following through on what they threaten it puts the very, very few who do follow through in the crying wolf catagory of not believed anymore.

All you have shown is your own ignorance on the subject matter, without disproving others. Hypocrisy at its finest.

Show me where I am wrong? No? ok did not think so.

I am a customer, I am always right. Thats what the phrase so promoted by
ignorance actually 'states'. Like I said the phrase is fallacy because
it simply is not true. When in reality the majority is right in this
regard because the majority sales is better to have than the minorty who
are oppose. Adding on additional phrase to an already bad phrase also
proves this that the phrase is wrong and is not accurate.

^ Right and wrong are perspective, there is no valid reponse to applying this statement not your counterargument which is nothing less than your own verbal diarrhea.

You account for assumptions, saying you can't assume majority or minority then continue to state, "In the end much like many others have said it seems to come down to four things I have noticed most."  <- lol fail, couldn't even break it with some filler text.

"I seen that it does not scan as it stands right now anything more than I
am willing to let it which is files and folders associated with the
game and the client."

^ Unless you are sandboxing you are fabricating. Also nice English.



That is how it has always been on BSN like stated earlier in thread
where they have said same things every single time they get hissy over
anything f

^again refer to previous point



Man this is too easy, please make it more difficult by not contradicting yourself in the same post, so I at least have to put some effort into humiliating you.

  Too easy.

[Bogsnot1]

Bioware used to have a solid, loyal fanbase, until they took an Origin to the knee.

Sorry, couldnt resist.

[frankiehorrigan]

No Steam and forced Origin?

Yeah, done with this mess. Hell, after Dragon Age 2 who isn't worried about ME3?

[Incognito JC]

Bogsnot1 wrote...

Bioware used to have a solid, loyal fanbase, until they took an Origin to the knee.

Sorry, couldnt resist.

I should have seen this coming, and yet I did not.

+1

[photographerleia]

OmegaBlue0231 wrote...

It has hurt the PC preorder sells already, rumors have been going on for awhile now about Origin and the PC sales vs the 360 sales are horrible because of it.

In the US the PC preorder sales are 72k and the 360 sales are 450k. Even the PS3 has better preorder numbers.

Source: http://www.vgchartz.com/preorders//

Exactly.  I for one was waiting to place any kind of order until I heard yay/nay on Origin.  That is the ONLY reason I did nto purcahse, and will not purchase.  It's funny, as much as I detest Steam or Secu-ROM (and have refused to buy games b/c of them requiring these forms of DRM), but both of those sound like lovely alternatives to this.

[aridor1570]

frankiehorrigan wrote...

No Steam and forced Origin?

Yeah, done with this mess. Hell, after Dragon Age 2 who isn't worried about ME3?

This is just stupid, not liking Origin is fine, planning on pirating the game? fine (by me). But then basing how the game'll turn out because of it?