329 réponses à ce sujet

[brfritos]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Female slime:



Thet everything that's female has to be sexualized/fetishized irritates me and insults my intelligence.

Being a male I don't see nothing wrong with this... 

[jbadm04]

Bethesda have female and male for various races in their TES games too, and children (though only human), ressources are NOT a valid excuse. Lets see what ME3 brings...

[Lotion Soronarr]

brfritos wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Female slime:



Thet everything that's female has to be sexualized/fetishized irritates me and insults my intelligence.

Being a male I don't see nothing wrong with this... 

So juts because I'm a male, everything has to be sexualized and fetishized?
Becase I can't possible handle non-sexualized women females, right?

Oh no, we males only think with our penises. Perish that thought that we might also posses a brain and that some of us are not drooling neandretals slaved to their primitive urges.....

[Wulfram]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

What about Asari? They're (for all intense and purposes) female.

Two things about the Asari

1.  As a race they're mostly defined by their attractive appearance, stripping, sexuality and being accuded of talking too much.  Bioware does manage to make some good characters out of heir fanservice race, but they're still a poor refutation to suggestions of sexism.

2.  There's a difference between specifically creating a one gender race, and having one gender being simply ignored.  Males are the default and thus exist unless specifically excluded.  Women only exist if specifically called for.

And I don't think it's lazyness or anything like that. They probably couldn't decide on a design. In some way makign a female character is harder than making a male one.

Take a look at Tali - if they make her too alien, people will hate. If they make too human, people will hate.
You wouldn't have that problem with males.

The problem with Tali is that she's a LI, and thus required to be attractive.  Hopefully no one's expecting that Salarian females should be sexy.

[Lotion Soronarr]

Wulfram wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

What about Asari? They're (for all intense and purposes) female.

Two things about the Asari

1.  As a race they're mostly defined by their attractive appearance, stripping, sexuality and being accuded of talking too much.  Bioware does manage to make some good characters out of heir fanservice race, but they're still a poor refutation to suggestions of sexism.

2.  There's a difference between specifically creating a one gender race, and having one gender being simply ignored.  Males are the default and thus exist unless specifically excluded.  Women only exist if specifically called for.

I care not if they are technicly mono-gendered special.

It looks like a duck, talks like a duck, acts like a duck (or in this case human woman).

And I don't think it's lazyness or anything like that. They probably couldn't decide on a design. In some way makign a female character is harder than making a male one.

Take a look at Tali - if they make her too alien, people will hate. If they make too human, people will hate.
You wouldn't have that problem with males.

The problem with Tali is that she's a LI, and thus required to be attractive.  Hopefully no one's expecting that Salarian females should be sexy.

I'm just saying - male characters have no expectations really.

And the whole "required to be attractive" is exactly what bothers me...

[Wulfram]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

I care not if they are technicly mono-gendered special.

It looks like a duck, talks like a duck, acts like a duck (or in this case human woman).

Yes, they're female.  But pointing at a bunch of sexy strippers doesn't let Bioware off for making Turian women invisible.

I'm just saying - male characters have no expectations really.

And the whole "required to be attractive" is exactly what bothers me...

I think I agree with you in the general case

But if Garrus was the masked LI instead of Tali, people would expect him to be attractive.  And many would probably be disappointed if he was revealed to have the face he does now

[Wynne]

It's so nice to see mature guys on this forum. So very, very nice.

Fanservice in general doesn't bug me, but when it gets to be too pervasive it becomes obnoxious and immersion-breaking.

I'd really like to see more female aliens in Mass Effect 3. The krogan female is a very nice start. Let's hope we meet a turian female general somewhere. It might help me start to forget other, less impressive elements.

[agonis]

Wynne wrote...

It's so nice to see mature guys on this forum. So very, very nice.

This.

[The Interloper]

AwesomeName wrote...

jbadm04 wrote...

Bethesda have female and male for various races in their TES games too, and children (though only human), ressources are NOT a valid excuse. Lets see what ME3 brings...

I'd say it is valid after hearing what Derek Watts had to say - which was basically that they generally avoid having them because they're hard to design (to paraphrase, "giving them boobs and lipstick is silly and it should be taken more seriously than that").

In Bethesda they're pretty much all human bodies.  Based on what Derek Watts said, I think they'd want to be more thoughtful about the sexual dimorphism, which is pretty sweet.

Yeah, in Skyrim even the lizards have the same body as female humans, breasts and all. I would hardly hold up Bethesda as the end of the argument.

Anyways, I was sort of concerned when they said there would be no new females outside of Eve back at E3. Priestly confirmed Salarians, right? That's good, because the homeworlds just wouldn't make much sense without females being present.

[Lambchopz]

 I don't understand why this is such a hot-topic, and people are slinging venom at BioWare because they don't feel like adding more female models. Are you forgetting that BioWare gives you the ability to play one of the most badass female protagonists in video-game history? Realistically, BioWare, along with Bethesda, are probably one of the 2 best game developers when it comes to sexual equality in videogames. You also have to realize from a marketing perspective, satisfying your male demographic over your female is generally a safer route to go.

I'm all for equal treatment of women, but I also think some people take the issue where it doesn't need to go, and also forget to give credit about progress in the gaming industry where it's due, and I think BioWare still deserves plenty of props in that department.

Let's be realistic, not idealistic, and then you can start to make progress. You are in a much better position to ask for things like this when you are approaching it objectively and rationally, and trying to give the developers breathing room. It sounds to me like they are already adding plenty of female parts of the races out of neccesity anyways.

[Wulfram]

Aside from the OP I don't see any venom.

[AlexXIV]

Wulfram wrote...

Aside from the OP I don't see any venom.

Yeah it is odd how sometimes we manage to make an actual discussion from a troll OP. You can say about the BSN what you want but sometimes it is simply amazing.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 17 janvier 2012 - 04:34 .

[Bleachrude]

AgitatedLemon wrote...

WalkingBartie wrote...

Oops forgot about them (A)
Point is, not a lot of aliens in ME have had female counterparts as of yet

Krogan
Turian
Rachni
Quarian
Drell

Well, we've seen equal number of female quarians (including as soldiers) so I don't see anyone being unhappy with them

Rachini...I thought they were all female since I always got the whole insect/hive queen thing going on...Thus, vast majority should be female and indeed, it would be the opposite of salarians...

I actually think most drell females would be too concerned about having babies to gallivant across the galaxy...

[Lotion Soronarr]

Wynne wrote...
Fanservice in general doesn't bug me, but when it gets to be too pervasive it becomes obnoxious and immersion-breaking.

Fanserive doesn't bug me per say - quite the opposite. I am a man after all, and scantly clad women are attention grabbing.
The problem is whne they are put just because. When fanservice and se-appeal is showed in forcefully.

Example of a good fan-service character? Fay Valentine.

Example of a bad one? Too many to count.....

[AlexXIV]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Wynne wrote...
Fanservice in general doesn't bug me, but when it gets to be too pervasive it becomes obnoxious and immersion-breaking.

Fanserive doesn't bug me per say - quite the opposite. I am a man after all, and scantly clad women are attention grabbing.
The problem is whne they are put just because. When fanservice and se-appeal is showed in forcefully.

Example of a good fan-service character? Fay Valentine.

Example of a bad one? Too many to count.....

What about Cass and Veronica from FONV? Tbh Faye Valentine looks a bit like a stripper. Don't know why that's necessary. Not saying it's bad or anything, for the same reasons any guy wouldn't say it's bad. But it is rather obvious tbh.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 17 janvier 2012 - 05:09 .

[agonis]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Wynne wrote...
Fanservice in general doesn't bug me, but when it gets to be too pervasive it becomes obnoxious and immersion-breaking.

Fanserive doesn't bug me per say - quite the opposite. I am a man after all, and scantly clad women are attention grabbing.
The problem is whne they are put just because. When fanservice and se-appeal is showed in forcefully.

Example of a good fan-service character? Fay Valentine.

Example of a bad one? Too many to count.....

ARGH! Just googled Fay Valentine... I´m sure you din´t mean the woman I just found...

[AlexXIV]

agonis wrote...

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Wynne wrote...
Fanservice in general doesn't bug me, but when it gets to be too pervasive it becomes obnoxious and immersion-breaking.

Fanserive doesn't bug me per say - quite the opposite. I am a man after all, and scantly clad women are attention grabbing.
The problem is whne they are put just because. When fanservice and se-appeal is showed in forcefully.

Example of a good fan-service character? Fay Valentine.

Example of a bad one? Too many to count.....

ARGH! Just googled Fay Valentine... I´m sure you din´t mean the woman I just found...

Yeah did it too

[ShadyKat]

Wish the devs would just come out and say if female aliens are in ME3. We know about the one female Krogan (which is just a male, wearing a bed sheet), but will we see others? I see no reason why we wouldn't, since in ME3 we will visit the Salarian homeworld (were all the females stay) as well as the Turian homeworld.

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

The Interloper wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

jbadm04 wrote...

Bethesda have female and male for various races in their TES games too, and children (though only human), ressources are NOT a valid excuse. Lets see what ME3 brings...

I'd say it is valid after hearing what Derek Watts had to say - which was basically that they generally avoid having them because they're hard to design (to paraphrase, "giving them boobs and lipstick is silly and it should be taken more seriously than that").

In Bethesda they're pretty much all human bodies.  Based on what Derek Watts said, I think they'd want to be more thoughtful about the sexual dimorphism, which is pretty sweet.

Yeah, in Skyrim even the lizards have the same body as female humans, breasts and all. I would hardly hold up Bethesda as the end of the argument.

Anyways, I was sort of concerned when they said there would be no new females outside of Eve back at E3. Priestly confirmed Salarians, right? That's good, because the homeworlds just wouldn't make much sense without females being present.

*Elder Scrolls Defendor jumping in* That's just laziness, because they'd have to remake every piece of apparel in the game. They had no breasts in it's predecessor's predecessor. Also they don't have follow any rules, there's no biology, they came from trees.
In short Bethesda doesn't hold a candle to blue women masquarading as asexual aliens.

[ShadyKat]

1136342t54 wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Chris Priestly wrote...

Oops. Nevermind. We did show female salarians before. My bad.

Still, yes there will be new female aliens in ME3.

We did?

Remember how Salarian females are powerful political figures?

Now what Salarian do we know is a powerful political figure in that Mass Effect Series? Hmmm I wonder.

The Salarian counselor was confirmed male years ago, and people were asking why, since lore wise it didn't make sense. So did they just decide to say it was a female now?

[Ryzaki]

ShadyKat wrote...
The Salarian counselor was confirmed male years ago, and people were asking why, since lore wise it didn't make sense. So did they just decide to say it was a female now?

There's two salarian counselors (if they're not talking about the dalatress). One is the old one if you didn't let the council die, the other is his replacement if he did die in ME1. The replacement is probably the female salarian.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 janvier 2012 - 06:03 .

[Gotholhorakh]

BioWare is hugely progressive, but man I'm sick of people who constantly fail to differentiate between the WRITING OF A SETTING AND STORIES, and the political intent/motivations of the writer, and even worse people who think that written works and art in general should EVER be tailored to fit some
kind of "correct" set of political views.

I'm sorry but it's wrong, broken, totalitarian, reductive and stupid. I don't usually stoop to the word "stupid", but that's what it is, in the sense of "irresponsible and ill-considered" and people need to fix it, because this same argument is one that... well I will almost successfully shy from invoking Godwin, but it is beloved of ignorant people who wish to ban and repress art that doesn't support their worldview.

Who died and made these people king anyway? Did their particular brand of opinion become stone cold fact while I wasn't looking? Because it seems to be "assumed" everyone must agree with it, and I don't think everyone does.

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

she's a LI, and thus required to be attractive.

I'm just saying - male characters have no expectations really.

And the whole "required to be attractive" is exactly what bothers me...

What the... how the... ...we should have unattractive LIs now? How would that work?

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 17 janvier 2012 - 06:06 .