4268 réponses à ce sujet

[Megaton_Hope]

Seagloom wrote...

Don't hate on her for finding garbage stew distasteful. I'd probably do the same. At least until I was so desperate it was eat that or die. She clearly hasn't reached that point yet.

...Bolin needs more screen time dammit.

But she was eating it before it was garbage... It was only after it subjectively became garbage that it was no longer edible.

Not to say that I find the idea appealing, but squeamishness isn't really an asset when you're on the run. Rabbit-duck a l'orange is unlikely to present itself often in the sewers. Of course, Asami isn't exactly as desperate as the others - Amon has no interest in stealing her bending, and her father would look after her welfare if she gave herself up. So that might be a factor.

[Seagloom]

She was trying it. She knew something was up before he said anything. The spoon was resting in her mouth at the precise moment he mentioned where the food came from. It wasn't as if Asami was on her second or third spoonful.

In any case, squeamishness isn't an asset no. As you pointed out and I mentioned before, she hasn't reached her breaking point.

Amon may not be interested in stripping her bending since she has none, but I gotta wonder if that will matter. She's a proven Equalist enemy. I don't think he would leave her be unless she turned.

Modifié par Seagloom, 19 juin 2012 - 11:56 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

Seagloom wrote...

As it stands, I find Mako the least likeable character in the show currently.

Oh good, I was worried that was just me. I didn't mind him at first, but he just gives off this aura of trying too hard. He's like Zuko Lite, a shallow doppleganger invented to recreate the 'Zutara' dynamic without any of the depth that made shippers like that pairing. I just feel like his personality and backstory is secondary to the red string that attaches him to Korra. Heck, everything about him says "love interest", his entire character design screams out how cool he is (finger gloves and a trenchcoat, really?). His relationship with Asami is just an extension of that. They needed to add tension to Makorra and draw it out.

Asami has become way more interesting to me than Mako. Still, I can't help but feel like eventually she's going to go to the dark side over him (and also because of her father). Sigh.


RE: Amon. My wacky theory: Amon never got his face burned; he traded it to Koh in exchange for the secret to bend-blocking.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 20 juin 2012 - 12:44 .

[The King of Dust]

At this point, I wish Mako would end up alone, and if Korra must end up with someone, let it be anyone but Mako. Bolin, Iroh, some random nobody. Heck, even Asami. Just not Mako, not until he learns to be decisive, upfront and proactive in regards to his relationships.

I hope they make him work for it at least.

[android654]

Lol. Have none of you ever been 16? Kids that age are helplessly fickle. It's the nature of that age. You were either guilty of it at that age or simply weren't into guys/girls at that age.

[ThatDancingTurian]

android654 wrote...

Lol. Have none of you ever been 16? Kids that age are helplessly fickle. It's the nature of that age. You were either guilty of it at that age or simply weren't into guys/girls at that age.

Personally, I'd be fine with fickle if it were interesting or somehow compelling, but the love triangle is just so boring. I know Korra and Mako are eventually going to get together, so all of this 'tension' is superficial.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 20 juin 2012 - 01:11 .

[Seagloom]

@android

It doesn't matter. Whether or not his behavior is excusable has no bearing on my personal feelings towards him. A douche is a douche is a douche. Besides, not everyone is cut from the same cloth. I did occasionally meet other teenagers outside the douche category back then.

Mako is such a gutless wonder when it comes to women, he can't even dump Asami before moving on. That's pathetic. Even some of the lowest a-holes I knew in high school at least made a clean break when they lost interest in someone. They may have done it in a cowardly fashion on occasion, but at least the outcome was clear to both parties.

Mako is pretty much a remorseless cheater. If Asami was the one playing those games, people would be calling for her head.

[android654]

I wouldn't be. That kind of occurrence is rather common and fair in my opinion. Sometimes you're with someone, you meet someone else and are conflicted about your emotions. It's not like he's using both of them for his personal amusement. I think it's genuinely permissible to be with one person and then have your attention caught by someone else. It doesn't make him a douche because he is not entirely devoted to his girlfriend 100% of the time. He seems to be genuinely conflicted, the writers just didn't have time to flesh it out properly due to the short season.

[Megaton_Hope]

Mako is kind of a douche. Everything about the kiss was a bad idea for a guy who's in a committed relationship, particularly given Bolin's interest in Korra and what Mako had already said the whole time about dating teammates. He shouldn't have confessed any kind of feelings to Korra (even confusion) or allowed her to kiss him, it just suggested that his relationship with Asami was something that might be under Korra's control. Which is...well, I've seen cheaters actually do that. (For what it's worth, I think that Mako thought he was being discreet.)

All in all, probably the worst part is that Korra expressed an interest earlier enough for him to act on any interest he might have, and he made this calculated judgement to commit to Asami instead. He SHOULD have just let her date Bolin, that might have worked out.

[KPiGame]

android654 wrote...

I wouldn't be. That kind of occurrence is rather common and fair in my opinion. Sometimes you're with someone, you meet someone else and are conflicted about your emotions. It's not like he's using both of them for his personal amusement. I think it's genuinely permissible to be with one person and then have your attention caught by someone else. It doesn't make him a douche because he is not entirely devoted to his girlfriend 100% of the time. He seems to be genuinely conflicted, the writers just didn't have time to flesh it out properly due to the short season.

 
^This...Thank you for posting this Android, saved my breath 

[Seagloom]

@android

What makes him a douche is not having conflicted emotions based on attraction to someone else, but what he does with those emotions. Megaton_Hope already covered that bit, so no need for me to rehash it all in detail. If you care about someone, you don't treat them way. I'm not talking full blown love here either. Just good old fashioned respect.

Leading Korra on while stringing Asami along, keeping secrets from Asami, then getting all defensive about them when she finds out? That is not the behavior of a decent boyfriend; conflicted emotions or not. I would have a lot more respect for Mako if he owned up to his actions.

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 juin 2012 - 10:02 .

[android654]

[quote]KPiGame wrote...

[quote]android654 wrote...

I wouldn't be. That kind of occurrence is rather common and fair in my opinion. Sometimes you're with someone, you meet someone else and are conflicted about your emotions. It's not like he's using both of them for his personal amusement. I think it's genuinely permissible to be with one person and then have your attention caught by someone else. It doesn't make him a douche because he is not entirely devoted to his girlfriend 100% of the time. He seems to be genuinely conflicted, the writers just didn't have time to flesh it out properly due to the short season. [/quote]
 
^This...Thank you for posting this Android, saved my breath 

[/quote]

You're welcome

[quote]Megaton_Hope wrote...

Mako is kind of a douche. Everything about the kiss was a bad idea for a guy who's in a committed relationship, particularly given Bolin's interest in Korra and what Mako had already said the whole time about dating teammates. He shouldn't have confessed any kind of feelings to Korra (even confusion) or allowed her to kiss him, it just suggested that his relationship with Asami was something that might be under Korra's control. Which is...well, I've seen cheaters actually do that. (For what it's worth, I think that Mako thought he was being discreet.)

All in all, probably the worst part is that Korra expressed an interest earlier enough for him to act on any interest he might have, and he made this calculated judgement to commit to Asami instead. He SHOULD have just let her date Bolin, that might have worked out.[/quote]

Except she kissed him and he was entirely caught off guard. That's total bullsh*t you can't dictate your emotions. The way you interpret things on an emotional level has too many variables influencing it that you can't force them to be a certain way. So Mako is being genuine when he says he's conflicted, and everyone has the right to feel that way. The responsibility for it growing from genuine confusion comes from both Korra and Mako, but I wouldn't call either of them "guilty."

Seriously, you're making it seem like he's using them for his amusement when everything we've seen says the exact opposite.

[quote]Seagloom wrote...

@android

What makes him a douche is not having conflicted emotions based on attraction to someone else, but what he does with those emotions. Megaton_Hope already covered that bit, so no need for me to rehash it all in detail. If you care about someone, you don't treat them way. I'm not talking full blown love here either. Just good old fashioned respect.

Leading Korra on while stringing Asami along, keeping secrets from Asami, then getting all defensive about them when she finds out? That is not the behavior of a decent boyfriend; conflicted emotions or not. I would have a lot more respect for Mako if he owned up to his actions.
[/quote]

And if you care about two someones? What about if you take someone, place them in a position where they have to choose between their family and their relationship with you? What if that person chooses you and you find yourself, in that same space of time, attracted to someone else? Do you not see why it would not be so simple to just dump someone when you're the reason they're in hidind and being hunted by a terrorist group? Hardly seems fair/right/appropriate to tell her you're through just so you can go with the other girl. So even if he is entirely invested in Korra emotionally, circumstances are complicated and it makes it difficult to just drop someone.

He hasn't been leading anyone on. He was distancing himself from her when he was with Asami, and Korra was the one who forced herself on him. He didn't seek her out in that way. He's not sneaking off behind Asami's back to go to Korra. The most he's done is show concern for her when she's in trouble in Asami's presence.

What show are you guys watching? You're making it sound like he's this big time philanderer when some girl surprised him with a kiss. A kiss he wasn't expecting[/quote]

[Seagloom]

Showing concern is one thing. Blowing off his girlfriend completely to shower attention on someone else is another. The leading on part comes from Korra trying to push her way into Mako's heart and him doing nothing to dissuade her since the episode when they kissed. Did you see that clip on the last page showing their little talk? Korra may have gotten the ball rolling, but Mako is being passive and dropping signals all over the place.

As far Asami choosing to side with Team Korra, I like to think she did not do so strictly because of Mako. She may really like the guy, but she isn't dependent on him to exist. When Korra accused Hiroshi Sato of being an Equalist sympathizer, she referred them to negatively. Asami was clearly not an Equalist fan to begin with, so I don't think she turned her back on Hiroshi just because her boyfriend is a firebender. In short, she isn't that hateful or petty.

If Asami was as bad as all that, she would not be treating Korra respectfully and showing genuine concern for her considering their rivalry over Mako.

Now, let's say Asami's estrangement from her father does all come down to her relationship with Mako. It isn't that complicated. If the only thing keeping them together is a sense of guilt and obligation, Mako will hurt her more in the long run than by just cutting her loose. Making Asami wonder about their relationship status and question her self worth because he can't make up his mind isn't an improvement. It's a lateral move.

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 juin 2012 - 01:11 .

[android654]

Seagloom wrote...

Showing concern is one thing. Blowing off his girlfriend completely to shower attention on someone else is another. The leading on part comes from Korra trying to push her way into Mako's heart and him doing nothing to dissuade her since the episode when they kissed. Did you see that clip on the last page showing their little talk? Korra may have gotten the ball rolling, but Mako is being passive and dropping signals all over the place.

A scene that's incomplete. We haven't seen what transpired before or even directly after. You can't judge one scene from a story in that way. It's no secret that Mako has feelings for her, and the more exposure he gets to her the more it'll increase. What's wrong about that.

As far Asami choosing to side with Team Korra, I like to think she did not do so strictly because of Mako. She may really like the guy, but she isn't dependent on him to exist. When Korra accused Hiroshi Sato of being an Equalist sympathizer, she referred them to negatively. Asami was clearly not an Equalist fan to begin with, so I don't think she turned her back on Hiroshi just because her boyfriend is a firebender. In short, she isn't that hateful or petty.

If she never met Mako or was involved with him, her knowledge of her father's doings would never have occured. Mako is essentially the catalyst that pulled her into this conflict. Remove him from the equation and she follows. It's not her fight, she's not being hunted. If anything it's likely that her father could've persuaded her to see things from an emotional scope due to her mother's death or separate ties and abscond to never be seen again. Without Mako there's nothing to suggest that she'd join up with benders to fight back.

Now, let's say Asami's estrangement from her father does all come down to her relationship with Mako. It isn't that complicated. If the only thing keeping them together is a sense of guilt and obligation, Mako will hurt her more in the long run than by just cutting her loose. Making Asami wonder about their relationship status and question her self worth because he can't make up his mind isn't an improvement. It's a lateral move.

You're confusing a logical assessment with an emotional one. He's not dating both of them at the same time. He's still with Asami, and as time goes on he gets stuck deeper in this "conflict." He has feelings for btoh, but with Asami there's the added guilt of dragging her into a problem that isn't hers. And who's to sy he isn't about to separate from Asami once they're in the clear?

[Seagloom]

- A scene that supports an ongoing pattern of behavior.

- Except she did meet Mako. She is involved. I see no value in discussing a "what if?" scenario here. The story is where it is. Perhaps she might not have fought on opposing sides had she never met Mako, but I have hard time believing she would support the Equalist case.

- He is dating one technically while being involved with both. Mako's relationship with Asami has been more physical than what he has with Korra. However, he has been intimate with both on an emotional level that suggests an attachment deeper than most friendships. The way he has handled it still counts as a betrayal of trust in my book. Asami is perfectly entitled to feel annoyed with him.

The short of it is I do not believe Mako's actions can be excused. They might be justifiable from his viewpoint, but as an outside observer I see him as a douchebag. Nothing presented in the show since this romance subplot began has convinced me otherwise. And it is not as if I went into this program with an axe to grind. I liked him well enough early on.

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 juin 2012 - 02:32 .

[Fraevar]

Seagloom wrote...

- A scene that supports an ongoing pattern of behavior.

- Except she did meet Mako. She is involved. I see no value in discussing a "what if?" scenario here. The story is where it is. Perhaps she might not have fought on opposing sides had she never met Mako, but I have hard time believing she would support the Equalist case.

- He is dating one technically while being involved with both. Mako's relationship with Asami has been more physical than what he has with Korra. However, he has been intimate with both on an emotional level that suggests an attachment deeper than most friendships. The way he has handled it still counts as a betrayal of trust in my book. Asami is perfectly entitled to feel annoyed with him.

The short of it is I do not believe Mako's actions can be excused. They might be justifiable from his viewpoint, but as an outside observer I see him as a douchebag. Nothing presented in the show since this romance subplot began has convinced me otherwise. And it is not as if I went into this program with an axe to grind. I liked him well enough early on.

I don't want this to seem like I am excusing it, but to me it all just came off as tried and true. Mako met Asami while he was upset with Korra, went that route without sorting out that he actually felt something there. And then managed to break his brother's heart in the process, even before we got to Asami realizing there was something between Mako and Korra. I think the Bo-Lin angle wasn't given nearly enough space, as it came across as deliberately stunted character development for the sake of just not adding in the subplot. Pity, because it would have made for interesting viewing, I think.

I just really hope we don't end up with the show taking the obvious route and betrayning Mako and Korra to Amonn because heartache and female revenge! That's my own personal fear, honestly

[Seagloom]

So far Asami is the weakest of the three primary female characters. It isn't because Korra and Lin are shown kicking ass much more frequently, or her feminine appearance and mannerisms. Rather, it's this love triangle subplot.

Asami's skill at racing, past, and relationship with her father aren't explored enough. There's hints of a deeper character there that sadly haven't been elaborated on to make room for Mako drama. Korra is shown to have layers outside that subplot.

I guess I could take it if Asami's story did go the route you suggest DJ, if only because Korra and Lin provide more than sufficient contrast. But I will be disappointed if it happens. It's pretty predictable writing, and I think Asami deserves better. Especially as the only recurring non-bender character fighting alongside Korra. They could be exploring bender versus non-bender issues from another perspective through her. Instead they are burning everything on the love triangle subplot. Le sigh.

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 juin 2012 - 03:45 .

[Megaton_Hope]

android654 wrote...
So Mako is being genuine when he says he's conflicted, and everyone has the right to feel that way.

Has a right to feel it, rationally shouldn't be saying it to the "other woman." She kisses him when he's letting it be known that he might be interested. That was a misstep - I think he made it innocently, but that's compounded by, well, never telling Asami about it. (Which is an especially bad move with that emotional angle. Bolin knows where the bodies are buried, man.)

Up until that point he was doing pretty well at letting Korra know her attention wasn't welcome, which is what a boyfriend ought to be doing.

[android654]

Emotional=/=Rational. He's not a robot, so simply thinking I will feel X and behave Y will not reflect itself in his actions. That's true for everyone. So far the whole thing's been innocent and I'm not sure where you people are seeing acts of infidelity or reckless behavior. People are so quick to lynch someone over something they've been guilty of as well.

[Seagloom]

Aw, c'mon. Now you're throwing in ad hominems?

I think the three of us are arguing past each other at this point. I don't think it matters whether you look at it from an emotional or rational perspective. All I care about is the end result. Mako's actions are hurting one character and toying with the feelings of another. That makes him a douche whether I look it from the perspective of an emotionally driven teenager or the cold omniscience of a viewer. I could qualify that by saying he may be an oblivious douche, but it doesn't make him blameless.

No matter how you slice it, there is a basic lack of empathy in his actions that in my opinion makes him unlikeable.

Modifié par Seagloom, 20 juin 2012 - 05:40 .

[Il Divo]

This is why we should all avoid falling in love. It only leads to pain.

[Seagloom]

Falling in love is totally worth it. Potential for pain be damned.

[Il Divo]

You're right. But let me keep my faux-nihilism!