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[WhiteKnyght]

MichaelFinnegan wrote...
When the Grey Wardens found out a way to take down the Archdemons, the Tevinters were probably already disillusioned about the Old Gods, seeing how the First Blight began after the Magisters invaded the Golden City, and had left Tevinter in ruins. And why would the Old Magisters have thought about taking down the Old Gods, when one of the Old Gods supposedly promised those Magisters all the power in the world?

The first blight didn't happen immediately after the magisters of old performed their ritual. They were corrupted and returned to the earth as darkspawn, but it took some time for them to find one of the old gods to awaken as an archdemon. And then after that, they had the dwarven kingdoms to deal with before they reached the surface. So that likely took awhile cause the dwarven empire was as large as Thedas itself.

[Heimdall]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I still hold the belief that the Old Gods are vitally connected to dragons, somehow. Not coincidental stuff like "Dragon Abomination" or "Dragon Aspect" or such. Something about their nature seems inherently tied to dragons.

Dragons are described as being their children on the official Origins site, after all.

I do think the Old Gods were more than simply large old dragons, even before they became abominations (In my theory).  Whether being the parents of dragons or some sort of Dragon mage equivalent, I don't know.

[Vincent Laww]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I still hold the belief that the Old Gods are vitally connected to dragons, somehow. Not coincidental stuff like "Dragon Abomination" or "Dragon Aspect" or such. Something about their nature seems inherently tied to dragons.

Dragons are described as being their children on the official Origins site, after all.

So the Archdemons are primordial dragons?

Modifié par Vincent Laww, 17 janvier 2012 - 01:47 .

[blothulfur]

You're a mage in a dawning civilisation that worships Dragons, probably in the manner that the folk of Haven did (a mutually beneficial alliance).
You learn how to shape change through magic.
Bang, you become king and god in one fell swoop.
You build an empire that worships you in one form and that you rule in the other. Any problem with a magisters rule, let's go ask our god what to do.

[Sons of Horus]

blothulfur wrote...

You're a mage in a dawning civilisation that worships Dragons, probably in the manner that the folk of Haven did (a mutually beneficial alliance).
You learn how to shape change through magic.
Bang, you become king and god in one fell swoop.
You build an empire that worships you in one form and that you rule in the other. Any problem with a magisters rule, let's go ask our god what to do.

Hmm that would explain the maiden sacrifice to the dragon anyway .

[Blacklash93]

Vincent Laww wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

I still hold the belief that the Old Gods are vitally connected to dragons, somehow. Not coincidental stuff like "Dragon Abomination" or "Dragon Aspect" or such. Something about their nature seems inherently tied to dragons.

Dragons are described as being their children on the official Origins site, after all.

So the Archdemons are primordial dragons?

The Old Gods could have invented the form of dragons, chose that form as their default shape, and created their children (dragons) in the image they invented. But really, if it takes the form of a dragon by default it's basically a dragon as far as one is concerned.

[AlexXIV]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I still hold the belief that the Old Gods are vitally connected to dragons, somehow. Not coincidental stuff like "Dragon Abomination" or "Dragon Aspect" or such. Something about their nature seems inherently tied to dragons.

Dragons are described as being their children on the official Origins site, after all.

Well it could be that Archdemons are not actual Old Gods but tainted offspring. How ever could any Grey Warden or Scholar even know an actual tainted Old God from an offspring? They probably share the same blood and many other genetic features.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

I always figured that dragons are just another race of creatures, like humans, and elves, and dwarves. Dragons just happen to be huge, long lived, and comparatively rare.  Going with that, the old gods were just the absolute best at magic and the arcane arts because of their long lives. I've read between the lines a bit, and suspect that the Tervinters sneaking into the Golden City was actually a test run for an attack on the Maker by the Old Gods. Once the Maker saw the "scout party" poking around his Inter-dimensional Harem, he freaked and banished the Old Gods.

Now... for my wild guess to work, dragons would have to have decade or even century long developmental periods. So when the Old Gods disappeared, so too did the majority of the dragon's knowledge. They have no books, right, or scrolls, so they had to communicate everything by magic or through teaching it directly. Overnight, possibly the majority of dragon culture disappears... leaving only dragons that are partially educated, uneducated, or adolescent. Basically, the dragons we know today retain the potential of the Old Gods... but none of the actual knowlege.

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 17 janvier 2012 - 05:11 .

[MichaelFinnegan]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

MichaelFinnegan wrote...
When the Grey Wardens found out a way to take down the Archdemons, the Tevinters were probably already disillusioned about the Old Gods, seeing how the First Blight began after the Magisters invaded the Golden City, and had left Tevinter in ruins. And why would the Old Magisters have thought about taking down the Old Gods, when one of the Old Gods supposedly promised those Magisters all the power in the world?

The first blight didn't happen immediately after the magisters of old performed their ritual. They were corrupted and returned to the earth as darkspawn, but it took some time for them to find one of the old gods to awaken as an archdemon. And then after that, they had the dwarven kingdoms to deal with before they reached the surface. So that likely took awhile cause the dwarven empire was as large as Thedas itself.

Right. That may all be correct. But I didn't say that the First Blight began immediately after the Magisters invaded the Golden City. And I don't see how it'd have helped my point to add all that information. My point was simply the cult of the Old Gods seems to have declined after perhaps the Tevinters learnt the reasons why the Blight happened. Declined, but perhaps not yet dead, even now - Morrigan, for instance, revered what the untainted Old Gods seemed to represent, and maybe there are more like her.

Unless you meant something else?

[AlexXIV]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

I always figured that dragons are just another race of creatures, like humans, and elves, and dwarves. Dragons just happen to be huge, long lived, and comparatively rare.  Going with that, the old gods were just the absolute best at magic and the arcane arts because of their long lives. I've read between the lines a bit, and suspect that the Tervinters sneaking into the Golden City was actually a test run for an attack on the Maker by the Old Gods. Once the Maker saw the "scout party" poking around his Inter-dimensional Harem, he freaked and banished the Old Gods.

Now... for my wild guess to work, dragons would have to have decade or even century long developmental periods. So when the Old Gods disappeared, so too did the majority of the dragon's knowledge. They have no books, right, or scrolls, so they had to communicate everything by magic or through teaching it directly. Overnight, possibly the majority of dragon culture disappears... leaving only dragons that are partially educated, uneducated, or adolescent. Basically, the dragons we know today retain the potential of the Old Gods... but none of the actual knowlege.

The Maker supposedly banished the Old Gods before the Tevinter Empire. The Tevinters may have tried to free them. Anyway, according to lore and legend there was obviously a war or battle before the Tevinters tried to 'usurp Heaven'. The only known war though is between the elves of Arlathan and the Tevinters. Though most likely the Old Gods were even imprisoned at that point because they seem to be responsible for the creation of the Tevinter Empire in the first place. As the Tevinters worshipped them.

[Fast Jimmy]

I have not read "The Calling" but from what I understand, the Architect reveals his work and research of the Old Gods a little more in that book.

From what I gathered it, he says he discovered where the Archdemons were and awakened Uriel on purpose as part of his plan, with unintended results.

If this is right (and if its not, please someone correct me) then did the Architect discuss how he woke them up? If it gave any insight on how to wake them up, you could find out why they were asleep possibly, and that could be useful in confirming if the Archdemons are truly Old Gods or not... possibly?

[Heimdall]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I have not read "The Calling" but from what I understand, the Architect reveals his work and research of the Old Gods a little more in that book.

From what I gathered it, he says he discovered where the Archdemons were and awakened Uriel on purpose as part of his plan, with unintended results.

If this is right (and if its not, please someone correct me) then did the Architect discuss how he woke them up? If it gave any insight on how to wake them up, you could find out why they were asleep possibly, and that could be useful in confirming if the Archdemons are truly Old Gods or not... possibly?

All that is in Awakening, the Architect attempted to use his darkspawn 'awakening' ritual on Urthemiel.  It didn't go as planned.

In the calling he revealed that his plan for peace involved turning most of the world's population into ghouls, because there could be no peace while the darkspawn and the other species were seperate or something like that.  The Architect seems a little childlike at times.  He genuinely doesn't understand why this is so unnacceptable.

Modifié par Lord Aesir, 19 janvier 2012 - 03:37 .

[LinksOcarina]

The same reason why Andraste is worshiped; belief in something greater.

Religion is a power thing, be it mono or polytheistic. Sometimes people just need faith in something, which is what makes it so interesting. Of course we know little about the Old Gods other than the fact that they exist and are now turning into Archdemons...

I think Tevinter, despite the arrogance they have, felt the need for a higher power. Which is why I kind of like the whole aspect of them trying to take the Black city and causing the Blights and Darkspawn to exist. Its reminds me of an old Tolkein story where arrogant men tried to take the Undying lands, a place where immortality was, by force, and were killed by the wrath of a god.

And it makes sense from a standpoint that many of the more powerful darkspawn..Corypheus, the Architect, seem to be descended from Tevinter Mages.

[Chun Hei]

The Old Gods are worshiped for the same reason the Pharaohs of Egypt were worshiped. They were real had great power to wield over "normal" people. The Pharaohs did not even have any magic powers but were still able to use to political power to foster worship. An Old God in the form of a powerful dragon a living weapon of mass destruction should have had an easier time gaining that sense of awe.

[Heimdall]

LinksOcarina wrote...Its reminds me of an old Tolkein story where arrogant men tried to take the Undying lands, a place where immortality was, by force, and were killed by the wrath of a god.

By killing the man you mean killing him and sinking his entire homeland into the sea, right?

[Sir JK]

I'd say there's two perfectly simple, wordly and viable reasons why the Old Gods became a majority religion in the old Imperium.

The first one is that it's a dragon cult gone massive. Originally a small cult that managed to proseolyte succesfully, it then took root in the empire as a whole and grew. It's mythos growing as it grew. Leaving behind the dragon cult as it became a major faith.

The other is that quite simply, dragons are powerful, and thus makes the perfect idol for symbolising powerful gods. They're graceful, huge, capable of flight, can breathe fire and imbue people with superhuman strength. The perfect thing to build a religion around. "Borrowing" them as altars for the abstract gods, so to speak.