40 réponses à ce sujet

[Kulyok]

Not everyone is possessive and jealous. (I am). But knowing that four out of five Hawke's love interests become interested and/or involved with your other companions can be too much.

- Isabella/Fenris pairing is common knowledge.

- Bethany openly flirts with Sebastian, even if Hawke and Sebastian are in an active romance. (See Legacy banter. Hawke says "Sister? Back off", but somehow I'm not so sure this ends it).

- Carver is interested in Merrill, even if his brother already is romancing her.

Yes, people move on. And it's obvious that if you don't romance, say, Isabella, she will have someone else in the long run. (A fleet of someone elses, in fact). But in truth, to me it seems as if these romance interests are fickle. That they are not that into Hawke. That they'll just as readily embrace Hawke's other companion, sibling or other romance interest. In game time it may take years, but in real time two games are separated by mere hours, so it seems as if Fenris ran straight to Isabella scant hours after jumping out of Hawke's bed. I'm not too happy with that.

Aveline/Donnic works fine - neither of them are romance interests. Carver/Merrill's confused flirting is sweet, too, and I don't mind the idea per se, but three pairings? With four of Hawke's romance interests? Too much.

[caradoc2000]

Well, you don't see this every day - complaining there is too much romance...

[esper]

It is hardly Sebastians nor Merrill fault that other flirts with them.

[CuriousArtemis]

Aww, well, OP, I agree with you somewhat. I find the Isabela/Fenris romance annoying and frustrating. I don't know why the devs thought it was a good idea to put that in there.

[jlb524]

esper wrote...

It is hardly Sebastians nor Merrill fault that other flirts with them.

Hahaha, yes...they are hot and stuff.

@OP

It doesn't bother me.  I always romance Merrill but I don't care if Carver is interested in her b/c she's awesome and he apparently has good tastes and all that.   I can't blame him.

Modifié par jlb524, 16 janvier 2012 - 09:48 .

[Xilizhra]

- Bethany openly flirts with Sebastian, even if Hawke and Sebastian are in an active romance. (See Legacy banter. Hawke says "Sister? Back off", but somehow I'm not so sure this ends it).

This does bug me, but from the other end. It's Sebastian whom I want to tell to get far, far away.

- Carver is interested in Merrill, even if his brother already is romancing her.

Doomed from the start.

I don't share your concerns.

[jlb524]

Anyway, those "romances" you've listed have no substance.

Fenris/Isabela is just sex. Neither of them care for each other in the same way they could possibly care for Hawke.

Bethany/Sebastian ...just flirting...but nothing substantial beyond that (people flirt all the time and it doesn't necessarily mean they will become soulmates or anything).

Carver's awkward flirting with Merrill is just that...she doesn't seem interested and considering how long it takes her to admit feelings for Hawke...she's not going to jump on him just b/c he shows a superficial interest.

[Thiefy]

i honestly thought the idea was super cute. wish i could have nudged them more myself like aveline and donnic.

motomotogirl wrote...

Aww, well, OP, I agree with you somewhat. I find the Isabela/Fenris romance annoying and frustrating. I don't know why the devs thought it was a good idea to put that in there.

could it be because you hate isebella? or just love fenris that much? tbh before the game came out i thought pairing her up with any of the npc guys (anders, fenris, carver, etc) was also cute but since i can't stand her guts after playing i kind of wish she would just fall off of a cliff or something because she doesn't really deserve any of the other awesome party members.

i like fenris (i like all the guys actually but he was the first i went for) but the idea of him with isebella bugs me just because i hate her personlity. i would be cool with him with any other girl or guy. the idea of isebella with any other person, male or female, makes me grit my teeth so i guess in that essence i'm protective of all of them. then again the fenris/isebelle thing never happens in my play throughs because she betrays me or i sell her to the qunari.

[PrinceLionheart]

motomotogirl wrote...

Aww, well, OP, I agree with you somewhat. I find the Isabela/Fenris romance annoying and frustrating. I don't know why the devs thought it was a good idea to put that in there.

Why are you frustated over Fenris and Isabela having sex?

[sylvanaerie]

Fenris/Isabela doesn't really bother me, it's just physical and only happens if Hawke doesn't romance them. So it's not like they were cheating on Hawke.

With Bethany/Sebastian, come on, really? Some harmless flirtation? Chantry boy won't even have sex with Hawke. I don't see him breaking his 'chaste marriage' vows with a woman he loves to boff her sister. And the line in MotA where Hawke and Sebastian are together is cute. Bethany's all like "Sister, you lucky ****!". And the Legacy banter is cute. Some harmless flirtation never hurt anyone.

Carver/Merrill again is a doomed relationship. Either Merrill simply isn't interested or else she seems a bit clueless if he tries flirting with her, and his attempts are even lamer than Hawke's.

Seems like a pretty silly complaint to me. The LI isn't fickle, the romance for that playthrough is rich and well scripted, and the LI is devoted to you (even if they tend to stray--like Isabela--not a good choice if you're the jealous type of person). I'm not.

[staindgrey]

The game takes place over seven years.

Seven. Years.

I've had more romantic drama and flirty lovebirds changing hands in one year of high school.

Basically, you're faulting Bioware for trying to be realistic in its portrayal of characters changing over time. Not only is it kind of petty, but I don't think we need to discourage them from telling realistic stories. I'd be more upset if everyone's lives revolved around Hawke and never deviated from it. That just flat out shouldn't happen.

[CuriousArtemis]

It is frustrating because I can't do anything to prevent it beyond romancing either of them lol

I don't hate Isabela or Fenris. But their "romance" is bizarre (to me) and out of character for how I see Fenris. Now obviously others see him differently and think that relationship is totally fine and fun. But I don't, and I'm forced to witness it if I don't romance one or the other, and it's annoying.

You aren't exactly allowed to foster head canon (which is part of the RPG experience) when the writers ruin that for you.

Now be calm, good people; I'm not trashing the writers or anything; I just personally HATE that pairing and wish the writers hadn't made it canon.

[Riffuel_Raffit]

Hm.. come to think of it, Carver flirts with Merrill even before Hawke can show interest in her.
Makes the older sibling kind of an ass if s/he´s going for Merrill despite knowing Carver has a crush on her, right?

On a more serious note, it doesn´t bother me at all. I don´t mind the Fenris/Isabella relationship - I even like it because I think they go well together - and the rest is just harmless flirting.
Bethany is not seriously hitting on Sebastian, she´s just teasing her sister.
That´s what siblings do.

Modifié par Valaun, 17 janvier 2012 - 01:41 .

[sylvanaerie]

motomotogirl wrote...

It is frustrating because I can't do anything to prevent it beyond romancing either of them lol

I don't hate Isabela or Fenris. But their "romance" is bizarre (to me) and out of character for how I see Fenris. Now obviously others see him differently and think that relationship is totally fine and fun. But I don't, and I'm forced to witness it if I don't romance one or the other, and it's annoying.

You aren't exactly allowed to foster head canon (which is part of the RPG experience) when the writers ruin that for you.

Now be calm, good people; I'm not trashing the writers or anything; I just personally HATE that pairing and wish the writers hadn't made it canon.

I don't perceive it as out of character at all.  Do  you primarily romance Fenris on a MHawke or a LadyHawke?  If you perceive him as gay that may make it seem bizarre to you, but I don't think Fenris would turn down free sex with an attractive woman who obviously is attracted to him.  For seven years.  He's a young, healthy, unattached male; why would it be OOC if he had normal sexual urges (and addressed them with a like minded companion) like every other young, healthy male?  If he frequented the Blooming Rose instead of occasional Isabela booty calls, I would find that more OOC.  He is trying to keep a low profile and being a customer of one of the more 'frequented' establishments would make him a lot more visible (IE on the map) than just living quietly in his home.  I would also find it odd and OOC if he chose to pursue something with Anders or Merrill considering his antipathy toward mages (it's why I loathe Fenders fanfics).  Who does that leave? Aveline (married) or Varric? The one dude who has an obsession for his crossbow? 

I suppose some random NPC women you see wandering in and out might be possible, but again, that exposes him to too many people, and why would they be included in the game in the first place?  They paired him with (in my opinion) the most logical choice of occasional booty call characters.  Or would you prefer he just sees no one at all if he doesn't romance Hawke?  For seven years. 

If the issue is the feelings/memories that come up when he and Hawke have their first physical encounter, I think that has more to do with the feelings he's experiencing than the actual contact.  With Isabela it's just skin deep.  Safe, no-pressure sex.

@OP
I prefer that they do have lives outside of Hawke, that it isn't like DAO where everyone hung on the Warden's every word and had no personal lives (aside from how they affected the battle against the Blight).  If anything the additional 'romances' add to the wealth of the writing not detract from it.

Anders is the only one who creeps me out because first, he's only just met you and starts flirting with you, and if you are in a romance with Fenris he tells you Fenris is little more than an animal, and that you need someone 'more open minded'.  It seems he harbors a secret crush on Hawke for seven years without moving on.  That to me, seems more unrealistic than characters who 'live and move on in their own lives outside of Hawke for 7 years'.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 17 janvier 2012 - 02:31 .

[CuriousArtemis]

sylvanaerie wrote...

He's a young, healthy, unattached male; why would it be OOC if he had normal sexual urges (and addressed them with a like minded companion) like every other young, healthy male? 

Because he is not "healthy" per se; he is a former slave who is also possibly a (repeated) rape victim who does not like to be touched and who runs away after his first intimate experience with Hawke.

The "romance" with Isabela in my opinion diminishes and even trivializes what a person in Fenris' position might be experiencing.  Even if Fenris is not actually a rape victim (despite it being admitted by DG that he may be), he has serious problems with physical and emotional intimacy.  He also suffers from total amnesia.  He may, of course, have physical desires, but the supposition that he would seek these out casually, and repeatedly, with a friend with whom he has no romantic attachment is beyond what I consider to be "in character" for this character.

Modifié par motomotogirl, 17 janvier 2012 - 08:14 .

[sylvanaerie]

motomotogirl wrote...

sylvanaerie wrote...

He's a young, healthy, unattached male; why would it be OOC if he had normal sexual urges (and addressed them with a like minded companion) like every other young, healthy male? 

Because he is not "healthy" per se; he is a former slave who is also possibly a (repeated) rape victim who does not like to be touched and who runs away after his first intimate experience with Hawke.

The "romance" with Isabela in my opinion diminishes and even trivializes what a person in Fenris' position might be experiencing.  Even if Fenris is not actually a rape victim (despite it being admitted by DG that he may be), he has serious problems with physical and emotional intimacy.  He also suffers from total amnesia.  He may, of course, have physical desires, but the supposition that he would seek these out casually, and repeatedly, with a friend with whom he has no romantic attachment is beyond what I consider to be "in character" for this character.

By healthy I'm talking "physically healthy" not emotionally.  Just because he's fubared in the head those physical urges don't go away.  I don't see why a casual physical relationship with a friend, that he can trust not to hurt him (and I don't believe Isabela would force herself on him, tease or harm him) over the course of years of game time is perceived as Out of Character.  Especially since DG wrote it in there, that makes it very much a part of his character.  Were it to happen in a fanfic, I'd concede that point, but his own writer wrote it.  It may be casual but they are still friends.  And care for each other as friends. It's not completely without some kind of feeling there, just not that gushy, romantic stuff (that Fenris really can't handle). People don't have to be romantically involved to enjoy sex.

I never perceived his issues as physical.  He doesn't exclaim to Hawke "OMG!!  That was horrible!  I can't stand being touched!" when he wigs out after their first night together.  He enjoyed the physical encounter--he says he enjoyed it--it's the emotions/memories that came with it that overwhelmed him.  And, wall slam notwithstanding I don't think Hawke raped him, so he can't really claim he was forced in that instance.

If the Fenris/Isabela thing was going on at the beginning of act 1, when they barely know each other, then I'd raise a brow, but the game goes on over the course of seven years.  I wouldn't expect anyone (except Chantry Boy--who took a vow and still has difficulty holding to it when Hawke flirts with him) to go that long without some kind of physical contact with another human being.  I would call it bad writing if companions spent those 7 years just sitting around waiting for Hawke to come to them to solve all their issues and romance them.

As for trivializing what's happened to him, different people deal with sexual abuse in different ways. Perhaps this is Fenris' way of living with it? It's not like Kirkwall has a shrink he can go see to get therapy.  This is all I can say on that point, I can't get into a long debate over this issue.

At this point, I think I'm just going to have to agree to disagree. 

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 18 janvier 2012 - 12:28 .

[CuriousArtemis]

I find it funny that Sebastian, who simply took a vow, is able to contain his manly sexual urges, but Fenris, who was potentially sexually abused, cannot.  But...

sylvanaerie wrote...

At this point, I think I'm just going to have to agree to disagree. 

Yep, afraid that's all we can do  

This forum is exhausting sometimes, I have to admit.  It's almost as if you have to write a dissertation to defend yourself every time you add your voice to the discussion, even if it's just to placidly agree with the first post and offer your own spin on things!  Maybe that's geek culture?  I'm not entirely familiar with it.  This is the first video game I've ever been really into

[PrinceLionheart]

sylvanaerie wrote...

Seems like a pretty silly complaint to me. The LI isn't fickle, the romance for that playthrough is rich and well scripted, and the LI is devoted to you (even if they tend to stray--like Isabela--not a good choice if you're the jealous type of person). I'm not.

Only thing that bothered me is Isabela gets jealous if a FemHawke flirts with Tallis, but acts like she wants a threesome if a MaleHawke does the same. I dunno, it just makes the MaleHawke/Isabela romance feel more like a fling.

[HolyAvenger]

I actually like it. Makes the characters more real somehow that they get on with their lives instead of hanging around pining for Hawke.

One thing I'd love to see BW do is a proper love triangle between the PC and two party member NPCs. That would be fun. I remember playing BG2 and Haer'Dalis starting to crack on to Aerie and getting a bit cut with that smarmy little tiefling. That was awesome.

[CuriousArtemis]

Rojahar wrote...

The way some people play these games to have a universe which romantically revolves around them is more than just a bit sad and creepy.

Actually I play a male Hawke, so it's more like the universe revolves around this super hot stud I created, so nyah 

Okay, actually that is kinda creepy.

[Thiefy]

Rojahar wrote...

I don't think there's nearly enough. The way some people play these games to have a universe which romantically revolves around them is more than just a bit sad and creepy. I hope Bioware prioritizes writing organic characters instead of writing the game like it's some Japanese date sim meant for the insecure and possessive.

Way to stereotype people and a certain genre of games.

Clearly you don't know what you are talking about. What Japanese dating sim have you played where all the LIs are pining away for the MC instead of 1)moving on with their lives to the point where the the PC must meet certain, exact conditions otherwise they cannot get a scene/event and thus end up missing out on that LI's ending and/or 2)having an exsisting "rival" in game for that LI to make the game more challenge on top of that and in the event you either don't go for that LI this playthrough or try but do not meet their requirements, they always hook up with the rival?

In my experience, MCs of dating sims never have any personality what so ever - it is the PC who must "change" themselves to attract an LI, which means YOUR PC's life literally revolves around them, not the other way around. If you have any examples of the opposite, please feel free to share. I'm missing out and like to cover all my bases.

[.shea.]

Valaun wrote...

Hm.. come to think of it, Carver flirts with Merrill even before Hawke can show interest in her.
Makes the older sibling kind of an ass if s/he´s going for Merrill despite knowing Carver has a crush on her, right?

You can flirt with Merrill right after you come back from Sundermount (first convo in her house after you drop her off at the alienage).

[Huntress]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

OP, just how old are you? Or should I say, how long have you been visiting Earth?

hahaha! omg totally love that line!:lol: