3659 réponses à ce sujet

[Bostur]

Gatt9 wrote...

Actually,  it's likely the prelude to a catastrophy.

This thing will easily be able to be redesigned to execute a virus payload,  maybe even transfer a virus or worm,  and spread throughout the 'net.  Sites will offer a "Download of the open source Origin" that's actually going to install a virus/worm,  and it'll have the ports EA is receiving on, so it's possible a well designed worm can exploit that.

Overall,  I'd say this is at least as bad an idea as Origin is itself.  I'm actually not a fan of this idea,  and TBH,  I'm shocked that someone on the security team would actually be willing to give up the obscurity portion of security. 

Any software can be used to distribute malicious code. But it's harder when the source code is available, because there is a much bigger chance that someone will notice it. For that reason keeping the code base open is an excellent way to gain trust, and an excellent approach for security software.

Security by obscurity is not a good approach.

[MingWolf]

Can't quite follow 108 pages of information here, but the requirement to have Origin installed when the game only requires one time activation is a little confusing to me. I'm contemplating the status of my pre-order as this discussion progresses myself.

What is the point of having Origin? Piracy protection? This measure seems a little over-the-top, and considering the reputation EA has earned over the past few years, isn't exactly a measure that a chunk of potential customers feel comfortable about. I've glanced over the EULA for Origin, and the privacy policy, and the impression I get is that EA can pretty much take whatever information they want from my system if ever I were to agree to such terms. It's bad enough I have to run Skyrim with steam installed, but at least steam has built up an acceptable degree of confidence and trust with their customers over the years. After seeing all this discussion about opting out and so on, it leads me to suspect Origin is more of a marketing gimmick as much as it is for piracy protection--and it sure doesn't look like people trust it.

Given that there is still a month and half before release, I think, despite what is said that this system is not going to change, they should still either consider dropping Origin, or at least making it optional. PC users shouldn't get shafted for this utter nonsense. In the end, EA/Bioware, your going to make less $$$ than you could have made without these crafty devices. Some people value their privacy, and others prefer not to go through extra hurdles just to run a darn game. The game might still be successful because of the traction attained through ME1 and ME2, but these gimmicks do more harm to the customers and ultimately, it's potential profits wasted. As a copy-protection device, it won't work, I can almost guarantee it. As a marketing device, it is intrusive. As an information gathering device, your better off getting your customers to fill out a survey instead rather than resorting to ninja tactics.

Even if this system was used for good intentions, it still isn't at the appeal of any skeptical customer. Which makes it absolutely silly to force such requirements on the PC user.

[Troodon80]

Gatt9 wrote...

Actually, it's likely the prelude to a catastrophy.

This thing will easily be able to be redesigned to execute a virus payload, maybe even transfer a virus or worm, and spread throughout the 'net. Sites will offer a "Download of the open source Origin" that's actually going to install a virus/worm, and it'll have the ports EA is receiving on, so it's possible a well designed worm can exploit that.

Overall, I'd say this is at least as bad an idea as Origin is itself. I'm actually not a fan of this idea, and TBH, I'm shocked that someone on the security team would actually be willing to give up the obscurity portion of security.

While partially true, if offered up by someone less than reputable and/or shady, there is a good chance of it being some form of virus (this can get your username and password along with handing over access to your account and games). However, in this instance, since we need not download the binary files - but actually go over the source for OpenOrigin ourselves and compile it - this becomes a non-issue. For anyone less tech-savvy, as with all software, only download from a reputable site (i.e. the projects home page, or a mirror site recommended or link by the author), don't download from an advertisement.

[Lumikki]

MingWolf wrote...

Can't quite follow 108 pages of information here, but the requirement to have Origin installed when the game only requires one time activation is a little confusing to me. I'm contemplating the status of my pre-order as this discussion progresses myself.

What is the point of having Origin? Piracy protection? This measure seems a little over-the-top, and considering the reputation EA has earned over the past few years, isn't exactly a measure that a chunk of potential customers feel comfortable about. I've glanced over the EULA for Origin, and the privacy policy, and the impression I get is that EA can pretty much take whatever information they want from my system if ever I were to agree to such terms. It's bad enough I have to run Skyrim with steam installed, but at least steam has built up an acceptable degree of confidence and trust with their customers over the years. After seeing all this discussion about opting out and so on, it leads me to suspect Origin is more of a marketing gimmick as much as it is for piracy protection--and it sure doesn't look like people trust it.

Given that there is still a month and half before release, I think, despite what is said that this system is not going to change, they should still either consider dropping Origin, or at least making it optional. PC users shouldn't get shafted for this utter nonsense. In the end, EA/Bioware, your going to make less $$$ than you could have made without these crafty devices. Some people value their privacy, and others prefer not to go through extra hurdles just to run a darn game. The game might still be successful because of the traction attained through ME1 and ME2, but these gimmicks do more harm to the customers and ultimately, it's potential profits wasted. As a copy-protection device, it won't work, I can almost guarantee it. As a marketing device, it is intrusive. As an information gathering device, your better off getting your customers to fill out a survey instead rather than resorting to ninja tactics.

Even if this system was used for good intentions, it still isn't at the appeal of any skeptical customer. Which makes it absolutely silly to force such requirements on the PC user.

This is pretty much how it is.

In the end company ike EA doens't just lose customers related in ME3, but also related they future products what is connected to Origin client. Meaning let see as example 20% of customer loss in PC side, just because Origin client. That means that 20% loss is in every sale they do in future related Origin client.

All this just because EA as company doesn't bother listen they customers, when they only request is have choice in the matter. Meaning adding Origin client extra option as asking permission to collect data and make Origin client optional product for those who want to use it. That would make every your customer happy and no lose any customers. Is asking respect too much for you, as not been forced to do what some customers doesn't want.

When does Companies learn that anything what is unacceptable for customers, doens't do any good. There is difference in lose customers, because this time you lose PAYING customers. What's point create systems what cause money lost, lost of respect and are unwanted by some of your own customers. When you lean that this isn't the way fight agaist piracy or earn respect of customers. How many times this has to be broven that unwanted forced systems doesn't increase amount of you money.

So, be SMART and make Origin client optional product. Other ways you are gonna lose MONEY. Good business is where your customers are happy with your products. Does this thread looks like your customers are HAPPY?

What's wrong with you people there who deside these stuff? Too too proud to admit to be wrong? Too proud to do what you should do? Everyone here can see that giving your customers choice is the better for your companies future, why can't you as company see this simple thing?

I mean, I don't get it. Why would any company want to lose money in purpose?

Modifié par Lumikki, 21 janvier 2012 - 09:53 .

[Wynne]

Question: If you're buying an EA/Origin downloadable copy of the Collector's Edition, does this work per household? Meaning, could it be installed on two computers in the same house so that two people could play? If yes, would this work for multiplayer? I'm assuming not, but I figured I'd ask.

[Adugan]

Wynne wrote...

Question: If you're buying an EA/Origin downloadable copy of the Collector's Edition, does this work per household? Meaning, could it be installed on two computers in the same house so that two people could play? If yes, would this work for multiplayer? I'm assuming not, but I figured I'd ask.

I am guessing for SP, you can play on as many computers as you want. Just in case, unplug your internet. Then Origin would have no way of knowing what the other ME3 copies are doing. For MP, probably not.

[Acrylium]

 Answer: No, it won't work. Even your own brother has to buy a copy of his own because the game is tied to your personal Origin-account, and so are your savegames in the cloud and erverything else.

[Lumikki]

ChookAttack wrote...

Now, imagine what sort of tie-ins they can come up with for a game like ME.  Or DA.  Would so many people really not want to be involved?  Maybe you wont, maybe a few here wont, but you aren't the majority of the market.

Your calculations/thinking is wrong.  Because we talk lost customers.

Using retal distribution cost more and can give less profit for EA. That's true.
Now lets say 80%  (majority) would go to Digital distribution or stay with retail. That choice is still there.
Money EA get from these people is what they would allways get, doesn't matter how Origin client works.

How ever, they did lose 20% of customers (minority), who doesn't accept Origin client. That's lost customer is directly lost money.

Now if EA would have give these 20% option not to use Origin client, they could have buyed the Retail version of the game. That means more money to EA and happier customers.

So EA's mistake is thinking that losing minority is acceptable and everyone would accept Digital distribution. That's not gonna happen, they WILL lose customers and not everyone runs in digitital distribution with happy face.

What they should have done, is adjusting game prices in different distribution versions and let customers make they own choices.

Modifié par Lumikki, 21 janvier 2012 - 11:04 .

[Lyssar]

ChookAttack wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

This is pretty much how it is.

In the end company ike EA doens't just lose customers related in ME3, but also related they future products what is connected to Origin client. Meaning let see as example 20% of customer loss in PC side, just because Origin client. That means that 20% loss is in every sale they do in future related Origin client.

All this just because EA as company doesn't bother listen they customers, when they only request is have choice in the matter. Meaning adding Origin client extra option as asking permission to collect data and make Origin client optional product for those who want to use it. That would make every your customer happy and no lose any customers. Is asking respect too much for you, as not been forced to do what some customers doesn't want.

When does Companies learn that anything what is unacceptable for customers, doens't do any good. There is difference in lose customers, because this time you lose PAYING customers. What's point create systems what cause money lost, lost of respect and are unwanted by some of your own customers. When you lean that this isn't the way fight agaist piracy or earn respect of customers. How many times this has to be broven that unwanted forced systems doesn't increase amount of you money.

So, be SMART and make Origin client optional product. Other ways you are gonna lose MONEY. Good business is where your customers are happy with your products. Does this thread looks like your customers are HAPPY?

What's wrong with you people there who deside these stuff? Too too proud to admit to be wrong? Too proud to do what you should do? Everyone here can see that giving your customers choice is the better for your companies future, why can't you as company see this simple thing?

I mean, I don't get it. Why would any company want to lose money in purpose?

I'll try again.  Imagine a scenario such as this:  EA release a NFL game where you not only play with the current season players, but you are able to create your own custom players, put them through training, intoduce them into your team as rookies and eventually even put them up for trading on an online trading system.  Each custom player you create might cost you $1 to integrate into your team, it might cost you $5 to trade the player.  The game also has a financial component where you have to increase your earnings by winning games.  Trading a player online may give you enough cash to do that stadium upgrade you wanted to do or buy someone else's custom players that you have had your eye on.

Now, imagine you play your online matches on your laptop or pc, trade players on your ipad on the way to work, check the trades or organise training and stadium upgrades on your phone app while at work, all done on multiple platforms integrated into an Origin client and all transactions costing just a few dollars.

Now, imagine what sort of tie-ins they can come up with for a game like ME.  Or DA.  Would so many people really not want to be involved?  Maybe you wont, maybe a few here wont, but you aren't the majority of the market.

Do you really think EA are worried about losing a few thousand pc gamers (who will mostly be back anyway) when they can make $200,000 from a parrot that does nothing but sits on the shoulder in a Battlefield tie-in and cost next to nothing to implement?  There are millions of people who will gladly pay EA for that sort of service.  EA have no intention of losing money.

Unfortunately, yes.
I think only if a massive amount of PC gamers opposes Origin and this over an extended period of time might it be possible to change something. However, I fear that the number of customers who currently oppose Origin is too small to count.

EA made a tactical good choice by linking their client to Game sequels. The chance that people will accept it because they want to continue to play a beloved series is quite high.
In addition there are probably a good number of people who don't know about Origin yet. It's how I ended up with Steam. I've never wanted that client either but I forgot to do my homework and check all the details when I ordered a certain game, and when I finally tried to install it on my PC I got a little surprise.
Once somebody has bought a game and is holding it in his hands, it is quite hard to say no and send it back.

EA isn't stupid. They know what they are doing. Over time the small resistance to their client will die or be of no importance. In the long run people will accept Origin as they did with Steam, at least that is what EA is counting on.
If nothing fundamental changes, Origin will stay and it will be required for all future BW games. I'm afraid we already lost the war.

[ttchip]

Lumikki wrote...
Your calculations/thinking is wrong.  Because we talk lost customers.

Using retal distribution cost more and can give less profit for EA. That's true.
Now lets say 80%  (majority) would go to Digital distribution or stay with retail. That choice is still there.
Money EA get from these people is what they would allways get, doesn't matter how Origin client works.

How ever, they did lose 20% of customers (minority), who doesn't accept Origin client. That's lost customer is directly lost money.

Now if EA would have give these 20% option not to use Origin client, they could have buyed the Retail version of the game. That means more money to EA and happier customers.

So EA's mistake is thinking that losing minority is acceptable and everyone would accept Digital distribution. That's not gonna happen, they WILL lose customers and not everyone runs in digitital distribution with happy face.

What they should have done, is adjusting game prices in different distribution versions and let customers make they own choices.

in the long run, establishing the origin-presence on the market will be beneficial to their sales, since DD is the future. what you are talking about are the immediate effects. these won't be as detrimental to their sales figures if you relate them to the possible profit by selling to a broader public on origin.

people will have to suck it up eventually, it's not gonna change.

Modifié par ttchip, 21 janvier 2012 - 11:07 .

[Lumikki]

ttchip wrote...


people will have to suck it up, it's not gonna change.

What you and EA doesn't get is that some of these people will not suck it up, they will stop buying totally EA's games because this.

YOU UNDERSTAND this is not some temperature situation it's about peoples principles. EA is doing something agaist these peoples principles. You can't force people to do what they don't want to do, just because you self think people will accept something because it's future. Believe me, they will lose customers.

You are forcing majority behavior to everyone. We people aren't all same and we don't behave allways same ways.

Modifié par Lumikki, 21 janvier 2012 - 11:17 .

[Sad Dragon]

Yuoaman wrote...

Icinix wrote...

EA need to take dmex - and put him on public relations.

He's been fantastic at engaging people.

This is true - if EA's actual PR were half as good at communicating as dmex they'd be well-loved for it.

Definetly agree, at least in some part. dmex should perhapps not work with PR as such as he should be given time to do just what he did here. Either way i hope BW and EA notices how the mood of the conversation was before, during and after dmex joined in.

-TSD

[ttchip]

Lumikki wrote...
You are forcing majority behavior to everyone. We people aren't all same and we don't behave allways same ways.

i don't support the highlighted thesis. i am not imposing anything on you people. what i am doing is having - in my opinion, you may aswell (and will, for that matter) disagree - a realist's view upon the situation. idealism works only if the majority has the same passion on that matter, which is a pretty damn shame, that i do not expect it happening.

i'd say it's hard to disagree that DD is the future (my own opinion differs on that point, i luv them boxed versions!). many o' publishers will want a part of the cake, therefore many o' publishers will eventually start their own platforms. EA starting early (relatively speaking, you know) will give them an edge in the long run.

[ttchip]

ChookAttack wrote...
I don't know if Origin is good or bad for me as a consumer, I don't even know if I'm correct as to the direction they are heading, but in my opinion, indications are that they have too much invested and too much to gain for Origin to go away.

backpaddling would make nobody take EA serious ever again, in addition to the involved monetary loss. doesn't seem realistic, does it?

Modifié par ttchip, 21 janvier 2012 - 11:33 .

[Lumikki]

ChookAttack wrote...

EA is a corporation.  The fact that they are a game publisher is irrelevent.  They don't think or plan their future direction or their marketing in terms of individual customers.  They plan their business in terms of market share and revenue.  Look at the figures printed in the article I linked to above.  The loss of a few customers that are opposed to Origin is inconsequential when you consider the huge expansion of their potential customer base that their move to being an online service provider instead of a software publisher presents them.  If they can market small transactions to millions of customers on a regular basis, the loss of you as a customer means nothing.  For every person that says they wont use EA products again, there will be thousands if not millions of new customers to replace them.

I don't know if Origin is good or bad for me as a consumer, I don't even know if I'm correct as to the direction they are heading, but in my opinion, indications are that they have too much invested and too much to gain for Origin to go way.

You are missing the point. Digital distribution softwares are the future. I'm not anyway agaist Origin client been digital distribution software. These new technologies are needed and wanted. How ever, what I'm agaist is FORCING them to everyone as NOT givin any choice in the matter.

What EA should do is make Origin client as optional product. So everyone who likes these kind of softwares could use them.  Company should try to lure people to use these softwares slowly, example adjusting retail and digital distribution game prices.

Point, been what they do now is just STUPID, too early and cause issues with they customers. If they would do it right, there would be no issues with customers and everyone would be happy. In the furure maybe retail versions of games would slowly die as not enough customers. But as long there is customers there, it should not be killed by Origin client.

Modifié par Lumikki, 21 janvier 2012 - 11:40 .

[Baron Warlock]

Chris Priestly wrote...

4) Will ME3 be available on Steam?

During initial release Mass Effect 3 will be available on Origin and a number of other 3rd party digital retailers, but not on Steam at this time. Steam has adopted a set of restrictive terms of service which limit how developers interact with customers to deliver patches and other downloadable content.  We are intent on providing Mass Effect to players with the best possible experience no matter where they purchase or play their game, and are happy to partner with any download service that does not restrict our ability to connect directly with our consumers.

Firstly, thank-you Chris Priestly, for the painful task of having to read through all these posts.

I have read in many places very similar text produced by EA that, "Steam has adopted a set of restrictive terms of service..."

Now I'm finding the parts referring to the patching as a bit of brown smelly stuff. Steam is set up to allow patching. I can believe they impose QA on developers which is a PITA, but I'm finding this reference hard to believe as a valid excuse for being restrictive, if it produces a better quality product for the end user. Just seems like padding.

As for restricting the ability to connect directly to customers, I really don't understand. EA needs to actually spell out how they are limited. Other developers using Steam are able to directly market me within games.

I suspect the real (and possibly only) issue is relating to down loadable content (DLC). I can only assume that the issue is that EA don't want to sell any of its DLC via Steam, and wants to directly sell to the customer with adverts in game. And the problem for EA is that Valve wants a cut of the DLC pie, which EA are not willing to share. The problem Valve has is that they don't want EA to distribute patches containing DLC without being able to sell the DLC. I would love if this could be clarified rather than having the same EA marketing speak which actually says little.

The net result is that EA annoys customers who are happy with Steam. EA to spite Valve make Origin which annoys EA customers who like the more traditional boxed standalone game (which EA don't want to do, since they want to kill the second hand market). Then we get extremely long threads in EA developer forums of hate which distract the developers from delivering an excellent game. Bioware seem like they're stuck in the middle, between actually bothering to listen to their customers and EA restricting what Bioware can say and do.

Personally for me if EA can't deliver games the way I want, they don't get my cash, I have plenty of other recent games to play. I have a growing number of friends who are independently coming to the same conclusion.

[Lumikki]

ChookAttack wrote...

I'm not missing the point, but it seems you are missing one.  EA are not forcing you to use their product.  You, as a consumer, have the choice to use their product, or not.  There is your choice,  It may not be the choice you want, but you are in no way forced to use any product that EA offers.

There is NO product, if I have to give up my privacy. So LOST customer and lost money.

Is that good business to, lose customers and money?

Modifié par Lumikki, 21 janvier 2012 - 11:47 .

[Doctoglethorpe]

Nobody is being forced to buy games on Origin, period.

[Lumikki]

ChookAttack wrote...


Taken on an individual basis, no.  Taken as a whole, where EA has the chance to widen their customer base by millions, yes.

So, what you say, it's good business to lose minority, just because you BELIEVE it's better choice?

I allready sayed, Origin been forced with EA's games or been optional choice, doesn't affect MAJORITY at all.
How ever, it does affect the minority as are they customers or not.

So, I ask again why losing minority is good business, when you don't have to.
You don't do any more money with the majority, depending is Origin client optional or not.

Modifié par Lumikki, 21 janvier 2012 - 11:53 .

[kofelover]

Lumikki wrote...

ttchip wrote...


people will have to suck it up, it's not gonna change.

What you and EA doesn't get is that some of these people will not suck it up, they will stop buying totally EA's games because this.

YOU UNDERSTAND this is not some temperature situation it's about peoples principles. EA is doing something agaist these peoples principles. You can't force people to do what they don't want to do, just because you self think people will accept something because it's future. Believe me, they will lose customers.

You are forcing majority behavior to everyone. We people aren't all same and we don't behave allways same ways.

The broader picture is that, even those whose desire to play the game, as opposed to their desire to not be an Origin customer, may succume to wanting to play the game (as we all do).  But getting those initial customers is no guarantee to future business.  If you force people to comply with your requirements, they may do so short-term, but that does not mean that they will want to do businesss with you again in the future.  We all have memories and we don't forget.