3659 réponses à ce sujet

[_Guy_Fawkes_]

Ok, so Origin = DRM + x (where 'x' is what most of this whole debate is about) ;-)

[Bostur]

Lumikki wrote...

As far I remember it's mostly for ISP (telecomminications), but I think it also apply's for all Service providers.

These are goot to read:
http://en.wikipedia....ntion_Directive
http://en.wikipedia....ction_Directive
http://en.wikipedia...._data_retention

Also there is some statical data collection laws in many EU countries and even EU has some directive related that. Can't how ever find good page about it.

Thanks, that first link mentions that it's a requirement for member states to store call information. I know in Denmark this is handled on the ISP level. It would be strange if every website or service serving EU users would have to store that kind of data, that would be huge amounts and not practical at all.

[igneous.sponge]

Great to see you here again, dmex, and thanks for the additional answers.

I have a couple of questions, the first of which has already been mentioned already throughout the course of the thread...

1. Do you think it will be possible to use OpenOrigin as a direct replacement for the official Origin client for use with Origin-required games, such as Mass Effect 3?

2. You mentioned yesterday that the reason why Origin is now required for some games to operate is because Origin is your only software solution that can query Single-Sign-On (SSO) Tokens. Could you please explain what these SSO tokens are used for and why querying them might be required for a game like Mass Effect 3?

Thanks, and kudos for taking the time and effort to answer our questions. It's very much appreciated and does make a difference.

[Dragoonlordz]

_Guy_Fawkes_ wrote...

Ok, so Origin = DRM + x (where 'x' is what most of this whole debate is about) ;-)

I was under the impression in general what I responded to was talk of being forced to use Origin because want to play ME3, my jest was that even if not in the game itself it is part of the game by way of DRM for it even if not embedded into game like disc checks.

I don't really wish to get any deeper into it than that myself. Anyhows I'm off to play ME2, I need a new save file to import into ME3 when comes out since lost all my old ones. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 21 janvier 2012 - 07:51 .

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Why aren't dmex's posts stickied, I need to see the answer with regards to operation of the SP portion of the game, does it run through the client like BF3 or run independently like Alice? Trying to word it as straightforward as possible, thanks.

[Zagallo]

[inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 21 janvier 2012 - 08:20 .

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

So nobody can link me to the original content where he addressed it? From what I gather its because of SSOs but that doesn't make sense, or rather doesn't make sense in the way that other games operate in exact same manner independently of Origin? Or am I just pants on head confused at this point.

[OperativeX]

Serious Sam 3 BFE's DRM was the funniest DRM ever and a fair one. When the games and codes are tampered with it activates the DRM which makes an unkillable scorpion appear during the game. It hunts you down and doesn't stop shooting you until you die, thus ruining the whole game for you.

Best and fairest DRM ever. And more importantly it DOES stop piracy.

Origin is just a sweaty piece of **** that only hurts paying customers by limiting re-installs. Croteam have perfected a DRM that only hurts non-paying customers. As it should be. Take a leaf out of their book EA. You suck they rule

Modifié par OperativeX, 21 janvier 2012 - 08:50 .

[wolfsite]

OperativeX wrote...

Serious Sam 3 BFE's DRM was the funniest DRM ever and a fair one. When the games and codes are tampered with it activates the DRM which makes an unkillable scorpion appear during the game. It hunts you down and doesn't stop shooting you until you die, thus ruining the whole game for you.

Best and fairest DRM ever. And more importantly it DOES stop piracy.

Origin is just a sweaty piece of **** that only hurts paying customers by limiting re-installs. Croteam have perfected a DRM that only hurts non-paying customers. As it should be. Take a leaf out of their book EA. You suck they rule

Actually hackers have found a work around for that relatively quickly from what I understand which is a shame.

[AlanC9]

OperativeX wrote...

Serious Sam 3 BFE's DRM was the funniest DRM ever and a fair one. When the games and codes are tampered with it activates the DRM which makes an unkillable scorpion appear during the game. It hunts you down and doesn't stop shooting you until you die, thus ruining the whole game for you.

Best and fairest DRM ever. And more importantly it DOES stop piracy.

How is the actual DRM part any better than any other DRM? The scorpion is cute, but it's not much different from just not letting the game run at all.

[J0nnara]

[inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 22 janvier 2012 - 12:31 .

[tbresson]

It's very sad news ME3 is not on Steam and on Origin.
I'm a big fan of Mass Effect but I'm not sure I wan't to buy it after I read these news.

I did the same with BF3.

I hope you change your mind or I guess I'll just play more Skyrim.

[DonSwingKing]

 Where can i support dmex and OpenOrigin?

[Troodon80]

DonSwingKing wrote...

 Where can i support dmex and OpenOrigin?

I don't know how to actually support either dmex or the project as of yet. Though I certainly wouldn't mind supporting either. There is nothing really mentioned. But you can find the project page here and the homepage here.

[StarcloudSWG]

The reason the Origin program and EA might collect the MAC address is because, under IPv6, the MAC address can be and usually is used as the TCP/IP address for the computer.
Each MAC address is unique, already conforms to the 128 bit addressing size specified in IPv6, and requires literally no additional effort beyond registering the device on the ISP's network to administer.
Further, since MAC addresses are hardcoded to the networking device, there's no need or method to change it, short of actually changing out the hardware. That makes networks more reliable.

Modifié par StarcloudSWG, 21 janvier 2012 - 10:38 .

[SovereignWillReturn]

Okay guys, Steam does the SAME STUFF. It's just a diff service.

I wanted to play Warhammer 40,000 Dawn of War 2 SO bad. But it REQUIRED STEAM. I was so butthurt I needed a 3rd party program to run a game by this,

"Stupid piece of worthless trash not capable of anything and was a waste of human intelligence"

Now Steam is ultra popular by everyone. Yeah, Origin is all WUT UP in your face, but it won't be as bad as you think, from whta dmex has said, it looks to be almost exactly like Steam.

Let's all just chill and play our fav games.

[Orionas]

I agree, those who "murring" about origin only, sounds to me a bit silly, as its the same service with different interests behind! Both applications monitor and stay in the background, both services are forced to be installed and both services force you to pay phone and internet provider.

In the other hand, think that origin servers are more empty than the steam ones, and steam got lots of problems servicing all its customers.. Lots of complaints.

Those who claim that both services are bad and they must be removed, or at least find a different way to co-exist with gamers and respect gamers. Is what EA has to look and find a way to solve it. If they dont want, its their loss, not ours.. And no complaints. Respect and be respected. (not only origin, but steam as well..)

Modifié par Orionas, 21 janvier 2012 - 11:11 .

[Lux]

dmex wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Someone in EA is aware of the project , but they didn't know one their guys is leaking information and a picture about something that's suppose to be known within the company only.

OpenOrigin is a personal project of mine, outside of EA, as owner I can discuss various things about it, I just need to adhere to our official guidelines and make clear it's not official 

dmex

Unofficial for how long, I wonder? There is potential in there for EA to look good. Even if it's only for, let's say,  building up around a rather limiting core of set features. It makes for a good selling point to the service.

Welcome back!

[Abirn]

StarcloudSWG wrote...

The reason the Origin program and EA might collect the MAC address is because, under IPv6, the MAC address can be and usually is used as the TCP/IP address for the computer.
Each MAC address is unique, already conforms to the 128 bit addressing size specified in IPv6, and requires literally no additional effort beyond registering the device on the ISP's network to administer.
Further, since MAC addresses are hardcoded to the networking device, there's no need or method to change it, short of actually changing out the hardware. That makes networks more reliable.

IP addresses change all the time and aren't proof of anything,  MAC addresses however can be used as proof of a specific device.  I believe EA's endgame is to engage in the extortion business the MPAA /RIAA started by threatening the end user with "extortion" Why else would it need to scan your complete hard drive.  Why else would they be so against you running it in a virtual environment?

[xaliqen]

Merkar wrote...

dmex wrote...
OpenOrigin is a personal project of mine, outside of EA, as owner I can discuss various things about it, I just need to adhere to our official guidelines and make clear it's not official 

dmex

Unofficial for how long, I wonder? There is potential in there for EA to look good. Even if it's only for, let's say,  building up around a rather limiting core of set features. It makes for a good selling point to the service.

Welcome back!

If EA allows us to use OpenOrigin instead of their version to authenticate ME3, then this goes a long way to alleviating my concerns.

I'll wait and see how this develops, but if OpenOrigin is released with EA's blessing, then it's likely I may get to play ME3 after all, and that makes me happy.  :happy:

Modifié par xaliqen, 21 janvier 2012 - 11:50 .

[Lux]

Abirn wrote...

IP addresses change all the time and aren't proof of anything,  MAC addresses however can be used as proof of a specific device.  I believe EA's endgame is to engage in the extortion business the MPAA /RIAA started by threatening the end user with "extortion" Why else would it need to scan your complete hard drive.  Why else would they be so against you running it in a virtual environment?

Yeah, I can be pretty paranoid too (to a healthy extent). But there's also a moment where you can decide to trust the comments of someone working directly on the project, or not.

Complete scan of the hard drive: doesn't happen.

Running Origin in a virtual environment within an OS: would that be against EA's EULA? Apparently not, but mods needed to do their "thing" until further instructions.

[tishyw]

Orionas wrote...

there is also 1 more question that nobody asks (maybe doesnt matter at all), I dont care about it personally, but imagine small kids that may choose to romance with the same sex characters, does this information are known to EA via origin (or steam whatever), because this kind of informations are away to personal (sexual choices). If they do collect all this kind of information, what makes us not to believe, that this info are not being sold as well... (i still remember what happened with google rumors)

meaning, except the monitoring and the forcing thing, we may turn to test subjects...

If you're talking about the ME3 data collection, then Chris has already said that it can be turned off, just as it was in ME2.  I don't think Origin collects in game data, it's to busy looking at everything else on your computer .
Also, small kids probably shouldn't be playing ME3 anyway.

[_Guy_Fawkes_]

I know that I have posted this link before, but to those who are still weighing the prons and cons of whether they will accept the fact that you can not get Mass Effect 3 without Origin (a digital download platform, very similar to Steam with comparable issues), it might turn out to be a good read, well worth the five minutes.

Some things are hard to regain once lost, if it's possible at all. And privacy is erroding more and more. My assumption is, that many people simply aren't aware of it's value.

However, here's the link: Why Privacy Matters Even if You Have 'Nothing to Hide' (The Chronicle)

#EDIT:  or more focused on IT matters: Why privacy matters (examiner.com)

Modifié par _Guy_Fawkes_, 22 janvier 2012 - 01:23 .

[Shermos]

I really don't think Origin is that big of a deal. I mean, not buying ME3 because of it won't make a difference. It's hardly going to make a blip to EA's sales statistics, and that's all they care about. Making money.

Origin is just a sympton of a larger problem. If you really want to make a difference, protesting against things like SOPA is the thing to do.

http://penny-arcade....s-sopa-and-pipa

Modifié par Shermos, 22 janvier 2012 - 03:14 .

[dmex]

 

Bostur wrote...I might be mistaken, but I thought those requirements are for ISPs only, not content providers. Is that a specific requirement for internet shops?
It's hard to figure out what is going on in the EU sometimes :-)
Btw I read some of your clarifications on the EA forum regarding access to games, thanks for those.

You're welcome, The directives are also required by all institutions with publicly available electronic services and don't just apply to ISPs.

_Guy_Fawkes_ wrote...Wait, on page 98 of this thread you confirmed that this is not the case for entire Europe, saying
EA's view on those laws and abiding by them hasn't changed in the meantime or has it?
Addendum: In addition to that, the whole data retention in the EU is undergoing a thorough review, with an unkown outcome; heck it could even result in less Orwellian circumstances. Several countries in the EU refuse the data retention and it's still an ongoing process with Brussels.

My interpretation of the laws and policy is that Germany is a signatory to the EU and these laws also apply there, I'll look into this for more information because I'm a bit unsure myself and need to err on the side of caution (and I don't want to say the wrong thing and give the wrong advice that gets you or me in trouble.)

igneous.sponge wrote...
Great to see you here again, dmex, and thanks for the additional answers.
I have a couple of questions, the first of which has already been mentioned already throughout the course of the thread...
1. Do you think it will be possible to use OpenOrigin as a direct replacement for the official Origin client for use with Origin-required games, such as Mass Effect 3?
2. You mentioned yesterday that the reason why Origin is now required for some games to operate is because Origin is your only software solution that can query Single-Sign-On (SSO) Tokens. Could you please explain what these SSO tokens are used for and why querying them might be required for a game like Mass Effect 3?
Thanks, and kudos for taking the time and effort to answer our questions. It's very much appreciated and does make a difference.

1) Maybe.
2) After initial username and password validation, Origin caches your SSO token to communicate with our servers and query your Origin preferences, account settings, privacy settings, game entitlements, cd-keys, friends list etc...
Since games also require access to our servers for querying various entitlements and things such as stats reporting (like your terrible game stats: http://battlelog.bat...s/315608477/pc/), It's better to use the SSO token than transmitting your username and password multiple times.
You can find more information about SSO tokens here: http://en.wikipedia..../Single_sign-on