3659 réponses à ce sujet

[ODST 5723]

It's less about protecting the customers and more about protecting their distribution channel.

[Pupuppu]

ODST 5723 wrote...

It's less about protecting the customers and more about protecting their distribution channel.

Nice when these things go hand in hand.

[kirvingtwo]

dmex wrote...

igneous.sponge wrote...
Great to see you here again, dmex, and thanks for the additional answers.
I have a couple of questions, the first of which has already been mentioned already throughout the course of the thread...
1. Do you think it will be possible to use OpenOrigin as a direct replacement for the official Origin client for use with Origin-required games, such as Mass Effect 3?

1) Maybe.

Maybe!?
Stop mentioning your, hypothetical, OpenOrigin as an "alternative" then.  The site you link to gives little information and there has been no official answer from EA/BioWare on the subject of using a different download client.

dmex wrote...
There's a law here in Australia that requires
taxi drivers to carry a bale of hay in their trunk, they don't do it
because it's stupid and would anger the customer if they needed to use
the trunk for transporting their stuff.

We want Origin to be used to transport our stuff not your stuff. 

Now I'm starting to wonder whether you really are Australian or just googling up wacky law fallacies for different countries.  In my understanding no such law has ever existed here and the myth actually originated in London where it is also not true.

[DashRunner92]

Here's a nice article that points out some good reasons why there's so much hate towards Origin.
http://www.escapistm...rigin-You-Stink

Here's an article explaining the whole reason people are attacking Origin's EULA
http://www.rockpaper...-more-sinister/

Modifié par DashRunner92, 22 janvier 2012 - 10:01 .

[AlanC9]

Gatt9 wrote...

dmex wrote...
Funny thing with Valve and Steam, You're a subscriber to the games you purchased, you do not own them. There's also this interesting section relating to your online conduct: "You acknowledge that Valve is not required to provide you notice before terminating your Subscriptions(s) and/or Account, but it may choose to do so."

The only recent game that I'm aware of where a forum ban was able to prevent you from playing was Battlefield 3 since you need to logon to Battlelog to start single player, most who got banned didn't realize or ask about how you could put Origin in offline mode and still play these games 

With all due respect,  we're once again coming back around to the problem that none of this has ever been tested or upheld by a court.  At this point,  none of what the EULA says means anything. 

Because a service,  as far as the products execution goes,  is not being provided.  It won't take more than 2 minutes to demonstrate that,  none of the game's code is executed on any computer owned by Steam or EA,  it's all being executed on the consumer's computer.  The only service provided is the transmission of the files,  which are then stored on the user's computer,  and executed on the user's computer.

You sure you weren't replying to billy the squid there? He's the only person who's been talking about the "service vs product" argument here; dmex was just making the standard "license not sale" argument. Which has been supported in case law, though not universally. Or was that what you were talking about when you said "service"?

Anyway, I wouldn't just assume a win in the Supreme Court when this gets there. I'd be shocked if the current court didn't follow ProCD v. Zeidenberg. If Obama gets a few more appointments maybe this will change. If Romney gets a few appointments publishers will be able to do whatever they feel like.

Modifié par AlanC9, 22 janvier 2012 - 10:13 .

[benetti32]

DashRunner92 wrote...

Here's a nice article that points out some good reasons why there's so much hate towards Origin.
http://www.escapistm...rigin-You-Stink

Great article, this sums it all up:

Remember that Steam entered an empty room in 2004. Yes, their early days were a mess of bugs and frustration. They could afford it, because they weren't facing a mature and deeply entrenched rival in the marketplace. Your customers - the people who buy EA games on the PC - already have Steam accounts. Some of them have libraries of dozens or even hundreds of games. They have friends lists and achievements and Steam is already a part of their computer. They don't see a need for you. You have to approach them in such a way that they will be willing to set all of that aside and begin building a new library on your service.

You seem to be operating under the idea that, "If we build it, they will come". The problem is, someone did build it. Seven years ago. Building it is no longer enough. Now you must build it and bribe people to show up. 

[wolfsite]

DashRunner92 wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

DashRunner92 wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

Tortugueta wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

Please don't qoute me on this and if someone can find info the proves otherwise that would be great as I currently don't have 100% evidence aside from posts I have read up on forums and some personal experience in Steam.

That is exactly what I'm complaining about. Everything is too vague to make a proper judgement. If things are like you suggest they might be, then EA/Bioware would have a point. As I said in a previous post, Steam clients should not be locked in to Steam when it comes to aquire additional content or patches for their Steam games, but they certainly should have the option of getting that very same content from Steam if they wish so.

That of course has nothing to do with EA/Bioware forcing us to go through Origin, which I disapprove completely and unconditionally.

I do know for Fact that Valve wants all patches and content updates done using Steam only.  So from this EA does have a point in that they can't just send a patch or quick fix out right away, they would have to send it to Valve/Steam and wait for them to approve upload it.  I just don't know 100% if that means you can not use Non Steam DLC content on a game purchased with Steam or using Steamworks.

You know they still have to do the approval method with patches and fixes on Xbox Live and PSN, but you don't see EA refusing to release games on the Xbox 360 and PS3.

Mainly because there is no alternative way to get the stuff out.  X-Box and Playstation are closed systems, you have no choice but to go threw Microsoft and Sony to get content out.

No matter who you go through, there will always be an authorization process. That's how they make sure their is nothing harmful within the patches or anything that may break the system. Take Minecraft for example, the reason it took so long to get on Xbox live was because Notch wanted to be sure he could patch and update at will. 

Okay I think you missed something.  EA goes has an approval system, once that is done they move it to the next step.  For consoles that is Microsoft and Sony.  The PC however is an open system so after EA approves it they can release it to the public, however with people using Steam EA has to submit it to Valve for additional approval which can delay things.

[wolfsite]

Pupuppu wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

I believe the problem is that Valve wants everything done using Steam meaning that EA can't supply content to gamers without using it.  That would mean all content would have to be approved by Valve/Steam before the user can get access to it (I know this is the case as this routine has delayed content several times for Steam users).  One example would be if a patch was released, they could get it out right away however it could get delayed by Valve before Steam users can get access to it.

Of course this is not true. Steamworks also states this (patch when and how often you want).
A recent example for this would be Sword of the Stars II on Steam.
A negativ example would be the Xbox and PSN network that are delaying patches, i.e. EA Battlefield 3 for internal review (confirmed by EA).

Also there are rumours going around that you would only be able to get your content from Steam if you aquired your game from them meaning you are locked into them for your content, so if a sale or special happenned on another site you would not be able to take advantage of it.

That's why steam requires to have content patches on their site when you sell the base game their, makes sense.
Of course if the publisher is stupid enough to spread incompatible updates on various shopping sites to different base versions of the game I would reconsider business with this company.

I have read people who got games like Dead Rising 2 on Steam but they could not get DLC they purchased from non Steam stores to authenticate on the Steam version meaning they lost money on the purchase and they could not use the content.

Thank you for finally admitting that what Steam is doing is to protect their customers by requiring them to have their DLC also on steam when they sell the game there.
Though one must blame Capcom for releasing different versions of games that are incompatible with their DLC. No other GFWL game shares this problem, even DR2:OTR.

Love how nothing is ever Valve/Steams fault, the Free Pass at it's finest.

[Travie]

benetti32 wrote...

DashRunner92 wrote...

Here's a nice article that points out some good reasons why there's so much hate towards Origin.
http://www.escapistm...rigin-You-Stink

Great article, this sums it all up:

Remember that Steam entered an empty room in 2004. Yes, their early days were a mess of bugs and frustration. They could afford it, because they weren't facing a mature and deeply entrenched rival in the marketplace. Your customers - the people who buy EA games on the PC - already have Steam accounts. Some of them have libraries of dozens or even hundreds of games. They have friends lists and achievements and Steam is already a part of their computer. They don't see a need for you. You have to approach them in such a way that they will be willing to set all of that aside and begin building a new library on your service.

You seem to be operating under the idea that, "If we build it, they will come". The problem is, someone did build it. Seven years ago. Building it is no longer enough. Now you must build it and bribe people to show up. 

I couldn't agree more.

Its hard to think of a worse way they could have introduced Origin to the marketplace. 

[_Guy_Fawkes_]

DashRunner92 wrote...

Here's a nice article that points out some good reasons why there's so much hate towards Origin.
http://www.escapistm...rigin-You-Stink

Here's an article explaining the whole reason people are attacking Origin's EULA
http://www.rockpaper...-more-sinister/

Thank you very much DashRunner92 for having dug out and shared those links!

#Edit: another typo 

Modifié par _Guy_Fawkes_, 22 janvier 2012 - 11:08 .

[kofelover]

DashRunner92 wrote...

Here's a nice article that points out some good reasons why there's so much hate towards Origin.
http://www.escapistm...rigin-You-Stink

Here's an article explaining the whole reason people are attacking Origin's EULA
http://www.rockpaper...-more-sinister/

Great articles.  Thanks for posting.

[Dragoonlordz]

Dmex is trying to build an alternative version which may or may not get the go ahead after completion from EA and I think is also unlikely for various reasons mentioned before. A lot of people are hoping his version does get the go ahead. So while think that his version is not likely to be officially allowed by EA I do think it is okay for him to try to drum up support for an alternative but at same time most important is explaining the official client, secondary to that would be explaining his one he is trying to create.

But in the end if you do not want Origin come time ME3 is out then you are simply out of luck. If Dmex version does become accepted and available for alternative then you might have a have a way to get it at a later date. No and, if's or buts about it. Most do not mind the original Origin. A possible (though unlikely) alternative version would please some. If EA builds into the original client a function of Opt In/Opt Out which may get allowed (after ME3 is released) is a way for others to be okay. But if none of those are good enough for people then they are at a dead end and just out of luck. Dmex client alternative being officially accepted by EA has more chance than those who wish for no client at all by a long way.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 22 janvier 2012 - 11:42 .

[_Guy_Fawkes_]

benetti32 wrote...

DashRunner92 wrote...

Here's a nice article that points out some good reasons why there's so much hate towards Origin.
http://www.escapistm...rigin-You-Stink

Great article, this sums it all up:

Remember that Steam entered an empty room in 2004. Yes, their early days were a mess of bugs and frustration. They could afford it, because they weren't facing a mature and deeply entrenched rival in the marketplace. Your customers - the people who buy EA games on the PC - already have Steam accounts. Some of them have libraries of dozens or even hundreds of games. They have friends lists and achievements and Steam is already a part of their computer. They don't see a need for you. You have to approach them in such a way that they will be willing to set all of that aside and begin building a new library on your service.

You seem to be operating under the idea that, "If we build it, they will come". The problem is, someone did build it. Seven years ago. Building it is no longer enough. Now you must build it and bribe people to show up. 

And then there are those who refuse to use DD platforms in general and that includes Steam - for several reasons.

[CenturyCrow]

It seems the European Union will be making more changes to privacy policies soon. While this won't alter anything for North and South America, businesses are already complaining about it for Europe.

New EU privacy rules worry business

The aim is to elevate data protection to the level where it needs to be  taken seriously by chief executives and corporate boards, as opposed to technical compliance staff,” says Christopher Kuner, a privacy specialist at law firm Hunton & Williams.

www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/e14f2f3e-44f3-11e1-be2b-00144feabdc0.html

Modifié par CenturyCrow, 22 janvier 2012 - 11:13 .

[mcneil_1]

Just as long as the game runs and can connect to the server (unlike the Amalur demo which still cannot connect to the ea server for me <_< ) for its inital activation, I am fine with that.

[SalsaDMA]

wolfsite wrote...

I have a few games I have purchased on Steam such as Prince of Persia, Quake and such.  Some of these I needed to get some patches not available on Steam to get them to run .  Few days it worked but then Steam did a file check and reverted the files to the ones in the Steam database making the games non playable again.  That indicates Steam doesn't like added files, though with stuff like Skyrim I would have to guess the developer would request Steam not make these checks as to not lose file information.  (Wish 2K would do this with Borderlands, every now and then Steam resets all my config edits which in turns cuts the quality of the game down).

You can turn off those filechecks.

And the check isn't to hinder you adding files, it's to make sure you got the last working version they got registered on their servers, aka keeping your game up to date and working as the code they got handed dictates.

Under properties for each specific game you can turn off auto-updating.

[_Guy_Fawkes_]

mcneil_1 wrote...

Just as long as the game runs and can connect to the server (unlike the Amalur demo which still cannot connect to the ea server for me <_< ) for its inital activation, I am fine with that.

Errm - lol - WOT? And carte blanche to everything else? No matter what?! All fine as long as you get to play the game?! Sorry, no offense, but are you fully awake yet?

Modifié par _Guy_Fawkes_, 22 janvier 2012 - 11:43 .

[Yuoaman]

kirvingtwo wrote...

dmex wrote...

igneous.sponge wrote...
Great to see you here again, dmex, and thanks for the additional answers.
I have a couple of questions, the first of which has already been mentioned already throughout the course of the thread...
1. Do you think it will be possible to use OpenOrigin as a direct replacement for the official Origin client for use with Origin-required games, such as Mass Effect 3?

1) Maybe.

Maybe!?
Stop mentioning your, hypothetical, OpenOrigin as an "alternative" then.  The site you link to gives little information and there has been no official answer from EA/BioWare on the subject of using a different download client.

dmex wrote...
There's a law here in Australia that requires
taxi drivers to carry a bale of hay in their trunk, they don't do it
because it's stupid and would anger the customer if they needed to use
the trunk for transporting their stuff.

We want Origin to be used to transport our stuff not your stuff. 

Now I'm starting to wonder whether you really are Australian or just googling up wacky law fallacies for different countries.  In my understanding no such law has ever existed here and the myth actually originated in London where it is also not true.

So to live in a country you have to know all of its laws, even the wacky ones?

[Pupuppu]

Okay I think you missed something.  EA goes has an approval system, once that is done they move it to the next step.  For consoles that is Microsoft and Sony.  The PC however is an open system so after EA approves it they can release it to the public, however with people using Steam EA has to submit it to Valve for additional approval which can delay things.

Could you please stop spreading lies or otherwise show prove for your ridicolous statement that EAs updates need to be appoved by Steam.

"Be confident that all of your customers are running the most
current version of your game. Update and expand your game as you see
fit. Your community stays current, and your support burden will be
significantly reduced. With no certification process, you're in control.
Update as much as you want, with as much as you want—there is no charge
for bandwidth."

Modifié par Pupuppu, 22 janvier 2012 - 11:51 .

[_Guy_Fawkes_]

CenturyCrow wrote...

It seems the European Union will be making more changes to privacy policies soon. While this won't alter anything for North and South America, businesses are already complaining about it for Europe.

New EU privacy rules worry business

The aim is to elevate data protection to the level where it needs to be  taken seriously by chief executives and corporate boards, as opposed to technical compliance staff,” says Christopher Kuner, a privacy specialist at law firm Hunton & Williams.

www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/2/e14f2f3e-44f3-11e1-be2b-00144feabdc0.html

... and it has already become a target: US lobbying against draft Data Protection Regulation 22 December, 2011

Yes, another edit. This one is the latest: US continue pushing on EU Commission against Data Protection proposals 18 January, 2012

Modifié par _Guy_Fawkes_, 23 janvier 2012 - 12:23 .

[Johnsen1972]

DashRunner92 wrote...

Here's a nice article that points out some good reasons why there's so much hate towards Origin.
http://www.escapistm...rigin-You-Stink

Here's an article explaining the whole reason people are attacking Origin's EULA
http://www.rockpaper...-more-sinister/

Thx for the links. nice articles! And now someone link them to the origin bosses with a salary of 400k per year.

[Jaina Twoseas]

I have a Question regarding Localization of Games / ME3 on Origin:

Is it possible to change language (voice and text) to english regardless in which country i buy? In Germany some games i order via Amazon come in german only localization which sucks hardcore, it would be nice to know that i can enjoy the entire game in english.

Steam for example always offers a change of language regardless where you purchase, however i read issues about EA related products (i think it was webstore) that appear only in the language where your IP Address resides, i hope Origin offers at least a change of language for games in a fashion steam does.

[Naktagala]

[list=1]
[*]Mass Effect 3 WILL require Origin for all PC editions, both physical and digital. This will not change.
[/list:o]

 This requires I spend my money on a different game. This will not change!

[Dragoonlordz]

Naktagala wrote...

[list=1]
[*]Mass Effect 3 WILL require Origin for all PC editions, both physical and digital. This will not change.
[/list:o]

 This requires I spend my money on a different game. This will not change!

Fair enough, immovable object </> unstoppable force. 

[Adugan]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Naktagala wrote...

[list=1]
[*]Mass Effect 3 WILL require Origin for all PC editions, both physical and digital. This will not change.
[/list:o]

 This requires I spend my money on a different game. This will not change!

Fair enough, immovable object </> unstoppable force. 

Well technically the immovable object could be made of a non-solid substance which would let the unstoppable force pass through without stopping.

Modifié par Adugan, 23 janvier 2012 - 01:11 .