3659 réponses à ce sujet

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I received confirmations that the FTC and BBB processed and filed my complaints.

I encourage others to do the same.

Back for more again , I support this.This is what every member on here who's complaining should do instead of holding out for open origin.

[Lumikki]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I think and I'm trying to be fair here that Dmex is only trying to explain what the client does now and how it is designed with added information about the one he is designing on his own and hoping to get approved. I do not think he can tell what EA may do in future as neither can any of us (not with fortune cookies, tea leaves or magic 8 balls).

Let me ask you this what exactly word for word would you want in the EULA instead? Honest question and if you cannot answer that then you have very little ground to stand on because it comes across as you don't know what you want. If answer that do not want any information sent then we both know that is not going to happen. Dmex said what it sends and what it looks at so best you may hope for (imho) is wording exactly what he said it current does and not scans/sends nothing including it's own client and game files.

It says in the EULA itself if they make changes they have to get consent from you and show you the new EULA.

If Origin client doesn't collect any data from users computer and Origin client is used only from downloading buyed games, updates, DLC's and games DRM checks.

Then EULA should say exactly this. How ever, this is not what current EULA say's, is it?

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 janvier 2012 - 06:11 .

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

PyroByte wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

@Pyro: Did you have it set to Offline mode when it was blocked?

No, if Origin is not able to connect it will automaticly launch in offline mode

I blocked all outgoing traffic of origin with windows firewall:



Edit: Origin never wandered outside the Origin folder while I had procmon running

For every post that tells the truth about what the software does , same people will ignore it unfortunately.

[eyesofastorm]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I received confirmations that the FTC and BBB processed and filed my complaints.

I encourage others to do the same.

Back for more again , I support this.This is what every member on here who's complaining should do instead of holding out for open origin.

This is how I feel and what I was pushing for last week and I was shocked by how little interest there was from people in doing anything beyond complaining.  We'll spend entire *days* of our lives complaining on here to people who have very little decision-making power, but we won't spend 20 minutes filing complaints that could actually make a difference.  Not that I had much faith in humanity to begin with, but... yeah.

[dmex]

Lumikki wrote...

dmex wrote...
You can't change definitions of words to suit your explanation.

Maybe not, but it's closest defination what fits in your software. You wanna go court and argue about it?

What?

Lumikki wrote...If this would be true, then CHANGE the Origin client EULA reflect this excelent news.
Should not be hard to do, if you really work for EA?

Dragoonlordz wrote...
Pretty sure Dmex has no say on what the legal department at EA do.

No, I don't work for legal, decisions on the EULA remain with them, I have raised the issue with our team however. 

Pupuppu wrote...Can the customer also be informed what information exactly is transmitted via secure channels by the Origin client?

Based on what I've seen, Origin transmits the following: 
* Username
* Password
* SSO token

Pupuppu wrote...Speaking of Origin, can you tell me, why an English EA game, bought in the UK, forces me to register the German version?

You'll have to ask support about that one. I do know 3rd party sites are selling keys but don't say where those keys are from, for example; keys sold in/from Germany, online via other distributors, will give you the german version when activated on Origin.

Ahglock wrote...
Then let me opt out of all data collection if it is so innocent, or let me segregate it in my system without it apparently being a banable offense etc.  For a program that isn't spyware and doesn't datamine it seems to be going pretty far out of its way to make sure that option is open for them at any opportunity.  

This issue of sandboxing has been raised by BioWare with the Origin team for clarification, you'll need to wait for BioWare to clarify if you'll be banned for talking about the subject.

igneous.sponge wrote...

dmex wrote...

igneous.sponge wrote...
1. Do you think it will be possible to use OpenOrigin as a direct replacement for the official Origin client for use with Origin-required games, such as Mass Effect 3?

1) Maybe.

To be honest, that does not sound at all encouraging. If OpenOrigin can't be used as a direct replacement for the official client for Origin-required games, then I'm afraid that will in large part defeat the purpose of OpenOrigin in the first place.
Now, I'm sure there will be a small section of people who (i) do not have any Origin-required games and thus are not required to use the official client; and (ii) will find the modularity and extra functionality you've advertised useful——but for the rest of us... what would be the point? If OpenOrigin couldn't be used as a true alternative for Origin-required games like ME3, then what would be the point of installing two Origin clients on our machines? This is particularly true since much of the extra functionality you've touted for OpenOrigin (e.g., social integration) is already planned for the official client.
With all due respect, dmex, I've been following this thread closely and it seems obvious that most of us who are, indeed, interested in OpenOrigin want a direct replacement for the official client (for use with ME3, etc.). If you can't make that happen, it would, of course, be understandable given the corporate culture in which you're embedded, but it sure would make a lot of people happy if you could. If you don't believe this to be possible, however—as indicated by your noncommittal response—then I must agree with KIrving and ask that you don't advertise OpenOrigin as a true alternative. It's disingenuous and manipulative.
Anyway, that probably came off harsher than I intended, but this is a meaningful and significant sticking point, and I hope you address it. Thanks again for your engagement with the community.

I hope it'll be a true alternative, I can't give a definitive answer it'll work with ME3 because it might require special handling like Battlefield 3 does and I have yet seen ME3 to know if it indeed does or doesn't and then what needs to be done to enable it to work, I've been asked not to commit to saying it'll work until I've seen ME3 to know for sure and it's why I haven’t been talking about it unless I've been asked a direct question as you've done.

It'll be OpenSource and the community will be able to help with its development, I am confident it'll support ME3.

Modifié par dmex, 23 janvier 2012 - 06:18 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Lumikki wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I think and I'm trying to be fair here that Dmex is only trying to explain what the client does now and how it is designed with added information about the one he is designing on his own and hoping to get approved. I do not think he can tell what EA may do in future as neither can any of us (not with fortune cookies, tea leaves or magic 8 balls).

Let me ask you this what exactly word for word would you want in the EULA instead? Honest question and if you cannot answer that then you have very little ground to stand on because it comes across as you don't know what you want. If answer that do not want any information sent then we both know that is not going to happen. Dmex said what it sends and what it looks at so best you may hope for (imho) is wording exactly what he said it current does and not scans/sends nothing including it's own client and game files.

It says in the EULA itself if they make changes they have to get consent from you and show you the new EULA.

If Origin client doesn't collect any data from users computer and Origin client is used only from downloading games, updates, DLC's and games DRM checks.

Then EULA should say exactly this. How ever, this is not what current EULA say's, is it?

Pretty sure was mentioned by Dmex and others that the only information scans (maybe sends) is registry, it's own games folder and own client information which includes by law (IP and MAC address). I think that is what he said it does and noone has been able to refute that with evidence. So the EULA won't say does not send anything. It's whether what it does send is acceptable to you. How do you think it will know what updates you will need if can't send back information about what version you have, again with activation sending information as well as maybe DRM checks making sure the game application hasn't been cracked or tampered with (which is reasonable thing to do to be honest imho). So by your own wording your breaking your own worded EULA.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 23 janvier 2012 - 06:23 .

[PyroByte]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...
For every post that tells the truth about what the software does , same people will ignore it unfortunately.

And what is the truth? There is so much hysteria going on

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

PyroByte wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...
For every post that tells the truth about what the software does , same people will ignore it unfortunately.

And what is the truth? There is so much hysteria going on

Their is over one time activation through origin , alternative origin and that origin even though proved not to be spywware by dmex.I admit I thought at first dmex was a forum hacker , but why won't anyone trust his word about origin.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Lumikki wrote...

Dr Bob UK wrote...

Origin isn't spyware.

Origin client is spyware like.

Maybe not by normal defination of spyware.  As usually spyware has to stay hidden, but when it's forced, what's the different. Example if you install spyware in someone else computer and the person knows that there is spyware, but can't remove it. It doesn't make it any less spyware.

In my eyes any program that collects information from users activity (by intrusion of privacy), so that user it self doesn't know or can't stop this information collection and software will send that information ourside of users computer to someone else, is spyware.

Now just because we know that Origin collects information, if we read the EULA, what most people does not. Doesn't change facts that you can't avoid this information collection. Origin still collects information about users behavior, like what softwares user is using and so on.

Only way to avoid this spying is STOP PLAYING EA GAMES, what are connected to Origin client. What means not installing Origin client.

The only thing that makes Origin technically not spyware is that the user is informed, in the small print, about what is going on, to some degree. 

However, in all practicaly ways, Origin is spyware. 

[Dragoonlordz]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

PyroByte wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...
For every post that tells the truth about what the software does , same people will ignore it unfortunately.

And what is the truth? There is so much hysteria going on

Their is over one time activation through origin , alternative origin and that origin even though proved not to be spywware by dmex.I admit I thought at first dmex was a forum hacker , but why won't anyone trust his word about origin.

The only ones I have seen are people saying his word is invalid because the EULA is not specific enough for them or ones who just don't trust what EA might do in the future. I don't think many if any are saying he's wrong in what it does currently. They just don't have trust to think will remain that way.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 23 janvier 2012 - 06:28 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I think and I'm trying to be fair here that Dmex is only trying to explain what the client does now and how it is designed with added information about the one he is designing on his own and hoping to get approved. I do not think he can tell what EA may do in future as neither can any of us (not with fortune cookies, tea leaves or magic 8 balls).

Let me ask you this what exactly word for word would you want in the EULA instead? Honest question and if you cannot answer that then you have very little ground to stand on because it comes across as you don't know what you want. If answer that do not want any information sent then we both know that is not going to happen. Dmex said what it sends and what it looks at so best you may hope for (imho) is wording exactly what he said it current does and not scans/sends nothing including it's own client and game files.

It says in the EULA itself if they make changes they have to get consent from you and show you the new EULA.

If Origin client doesn't collect any data from users computer and Origin client is used only from downloading games, updates, DLC's and games DRM checks.

Then EULA should say exactly this. How ever, this is not what current EULA say's, is it?

Pretty sure was mentioned by Dmex and others that the only information scans (maybe sends) is registry, it's own games folder and own client information which includes by law (IP and MAC address). I think that is what he said it does and noone has been able to refute that with evidence. So the EULA won't say does not send anything. It's whether what it does send is acceptable to you. How do you think it will know what updates you will need if can't send back information about what version you have, again with activation sending information as well as maybe DRM checks making sure the game application hasn't been cracked or tampered with (which is reasonable thing to do to be honest imho). So by your own wording your breaking your own worded EULA.

Just the scan of the registry is too much, and a deal-breaker. 

As for the DRM, that's been covered at length.  All DRM is quickly cracked, this will do nothing.  All Origin will do is prevent people who are too informed to install Origin and too principled to "ocean raid" the game from buying and using EA software.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 23 janvier 2012 - 06:31 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

PyroByte wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

@Pyro: Did you have it set to Offline mode when it was blocked?

No, if Origin is not able to connect it will automaticly launch in offline mode

I blocked all outgoing traffic of origin with windows firewall:



Edit: Origin never wandered outside the Origin folder while I had procmon running

So?  That just would just make it slightly less offensive.

Never mind what it did before and what EA reserves the right to have it do again.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 23 janvier 2012 - 06:30 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I think and I'm trying to be fair here that Dmex is only trying to explain what the client does now and how it is designed with added information about the one he is designing on his own and hoping to get approved. I do not think he can tell what EA may do in future as neither can any of us (not with fortune cookies, tea leaves or magic 8 balls).

Let me ask you this what exactly word for word would you want in the EULA instead? Honest question and if you cannot answer that then you have very little ground to stand on because it comes across as you don't know what you want. If answer that do not want any information sent then we both know that is not going to happen. Dmex said what it sends and what it looks at so best you may hope for (imho) is wording exactly what he said it current does and not scans/sends nothing including it's own client and game files.

It says in the EULA itself if they make changes they have to get consent from you and show you the new EULA.

If Origin client doesn't collect any data from users computer and Origin client is used only from downloading games, updates, DLC's and games DRM checks.

Then EULA should say exactly this. How ever, this is not what current EULA say's, is it?

Pretty sure was mentioned by Dmex and others that the only information scans (maybe sends) is registry, it's own games folder and own client information which includes by law (IP and MAC address). I think that is what he said it does and noone has been able to refute that with evidence. So the EULA won't say does not send anything. It's whether what it does send is acceptable to you. How do you think it will know what updates you will need if can't send back information about what version you have, again with activation sending information as well as maybe DRM checks making sure the game application hasn't been cracked or tampered with (which is reasonable thing to do to be honest imho). So by your own wording your breaking your own worded EULA.

Just the scan of the registry is too much, and a deal-breaker. 

As for the DRM, that's been covered at length.  All DRM is quickly cracked, this will do nothing.  All Origin will do is prevent people who are too informed to install Origin and too principle to "ocean raid" the game from buying and using EA software.

The registry bit falls into scan part of my comment, I do not know if sends registry information, but I think was mentioned scanned it while back.

[MingWolf]

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

But when you require a system to be installed on a personal machine to play a product that you know your primary consumer base will want to purchase, a bit of transparancy is not a difficult concept to realize and implement.  EA can change their EULA all they want, but the bad press and antagonism will remain the same until facts are disclosed to the consumers.

Aye.

All other matters aside, it would be really nice if they could just be upfront as to why Origin is required in order for Mass Effect 3 to function.  The official answers I've seen thus far are a little bit too dodgy.  While the purpose one can easily suspect, it doesn't offer Origin any credibility given these facts: 1) The poorly worded Privacy Policy and the EULA that points to it; 2) It's apparent inferiority compared to Steam and it's lack of non-EA titles; 3) The aggressive marketing behaviour exhibited by EA in the past; 4) The poor implementation of DRM in the past; 5) That data-mining is an opt-out function as opposed to opt-in; and of course (6) the complaints by the gaming populace, whether justified or not. 

Even if there are nothing evident that Origin is in any shape or form, spyware, it still doesn't get around the fact that it is required to sit there on the PC when your playing ME3.  As a DRM system too, I can almost gaurantee that it will be utterly ineffective at curbing piracy, especially given the way people are thinking about the system now.  As an online store in competition to Steam, I don't know how they are going to compete (and it seems that EA are choosing not to distribute on steam any longer?  Closing their doors so to speak?).  It also defeats the purpose of having physical copies of the game for the PC.  At the moment, the cons seem to outweigh the pros on having Origin at all. 

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

PyroByte wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...
For every post that tells the truth about what the software does , same people will ignore it unfortunately.

And what is the truth? There is so much hysteria going on

Their is over one time activation through origin , alternative origin and that origin even though proved not to be spywware by dmex.I admit I thought at first dmex was a forum hacker , but why won't anyone trust his word about origin.

The only ones I have seen are people saying his word is invalid because the EULA is not specific enough for them or ones who just don't trust what EA might do in the future. I don't think many if any are saying he's wrong in what it does currently. They just don't have trust to think will remain that way.

Yeah , what could EA possibly do with the information anyway.EA knows the minute they start collecting/using private information , it's all over for them.I just don't know what EA could say or promise that would change someones mind.

[DonSwingKing]

I'm sorry to ask this, but what exactly would OpenOrigin change?
Origin is no spyware. I'm more vexed about the simple fact, that i am forced to to install it on my harddrive. It needs to be running, when playing Multiplayer also.

Could i uninstall Origin, after i activated my copy on OpenOrigin or what?
Does OpenOrigin only replace the real Origin?
How can features like Facebook and Steamworks be integrated into OpenOrigin? How will it look like?

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

MingWolf wrote...

ArkkAngel007 wrote...

But when you require a system to be installed on a personal machine to play a product that you know your primary consumer base will want to purchase, a bit of transparancy is not a difficult concept to realize and implement.  EA can change their EULA all they want, but the bad press and antagonism will remain the same until facts are disclosed to the consumers.

Aye.

All other matters aside, it would be really nice if they could just be upfront as to why Origin is required in order for Mass Effect 3 to function.  The official answers I've seen thus far are a little bit too dodgy.  While the purpose one can easily suspect, it doesn't offer Origin any credibility given these facts: 1) The poorly worded Privacy Policy and the EULA that points to it; 2) It's apparent inferiority compared to Steam and it's lack of non-EA titles; 3) The aggressive marketing behaviour exhibited by EA in the past; 4) The poor implementation of DRM in the past; 5) That data-mining is an opt-out function as opposed to opt-in; and of course (6) the complaints by the gaming populace, whether justified or not. 

Even if there are nothing evident that Origin is in any shape or form, spyware, it still doesn't get around the fact that it is required to sit there on the PC when your playing ME3.  As a DRM system too, I can almost gaurantee that it will be utterly ineffective at curbing piracy, especially given the way people are thinking about the system now.  As an online store in competition to Steam, I don't know how they are going to compete (and it seems that EA are choosing not to distribute on steam any longer?  Closing their doors so to speak?).  It also defeats the purpose of having physical copies of the game for the PC.  At the moment, the cons seem to outweigh the pros on having Origin at all. 

Ok , so if the eula were re-written then you wouldn't have a problem with origin.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Just the scan of the registry is too much, and a deal-breaker. 

As for the DRM, that's been covered at length.  All DRM is quickly cracked, this will do nothing.  All Origin will do is prevent people who are too informed to install Origin and too principle to "ocean raid" the game from buying and using EA software.

The registry bit falls into scan part of my comment, I do not know if sends registry information, but I think was mentioned scanned it while back.

I was under the impression that the data sent back to EA is encrypted, and that no one as of yet had any idea what was being sent back to EA  (and if someone did crack that encryption, I'm sure that EA would push to have them charged with a computer crime). 

Has that changed?  Do we know what is being sent?

[Dragoonlordz]

DonSwingKing wrote...

I'm sorry to ask this, but what exactly would OpenOrigin change?
Origin is no spyware. I'm more vexed about the simple fact, that i am forced to to install it on my harddrive. It needs to be running, when playing Multiplayer also.

Could i uninstall Origin, after i activated my copy on OpenOrigin or what?
Does OpenOrigin only replace the real Origin?
How can features like Facebook and Steamworks be integrated into OpenOrigin? How will it look like?

It's something he is making not something that has yet been approved I think. It's more for those who want to read every line of source code to see what exactly it will do. 

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

DonSwingKing wrote...

I'm sorry to ask this, but what exactly would OpenOrigin change?
Origin is no spyware. I'm more vexed about the simple fact, that i am forced to to install it on my harddrive. It needs to be running, when playing Multiplayer also.

Could i uninstall Origin, after i activated my copy on OpenOrigin or what?
Does OpenOrigin only replace the real Origin?
How can features like Facebook and Steamworks be integrated into OpenOrigin? How will it look like?

^This , it wouldn't change a single thing because it's the same software.

[Annoyed Dragon]

I don't know if this question has been asked but does ME3 automaticly assumes that your ea account is the same as your origin account.

What I mean by this is when you install ME2 or  DA2 it requests your ea account email and password which can be different to your origin account is ME3 the same?

Personally I hope so.    

[MingWolf]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Ok , so if the eula were re-written then you wouldn't have a problem with origin.

Never said that.  I believe the EULA has been edited several times.  For me, personally, Origin is just useless baggage.

[Johnsen1972]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Just the scan of the registry is too much, and a deal-breaker. 

As for the DRM, that's been covered at length.  All DRM is quickly cracked, this will do nothing.  All Origin will do is prevent people who are too informed to install Origin and too principle to "ocean raid" the game from buying and using EA software.

The registry bit falls into scan part of my comment, I do not know if sends registry information, but I think was mentioned scanned it while back.

I was under the impression that the data sent back to EA is encrypted, and that no one as of yet had any idea what was being sent back to EA  (and if someone did crack that encryption, I'm sure that EA would push to have them charged with a computer crime). 

Has that changed?  Do we know what is being sent?

Just read the EULA. It says all hardware & all software information. So bascially everything?  

[Dragoonlordz]

Annoyed Dragon wrote...

I don't know if this question has been asked but does ME3 automaticly assumes that your ea account is the same as your origin account.

What I mean by this is when you install ME2 or  DA2 it requests your ea account email and password which can be different to your origin account is ME3 the same?

Personally I hope so.    

Your EA account is your Origin account, it just changed name. When I install ME2 which did again only day ago the same account information is used as my Origin account because they are same account now. Unless you have something wierd going on. 

[Lumikki]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Pretty sure was mentioned by Dmex and others that the only information scans (maybe sends) is registry, it's own games folder and own client information which includes by law (IP and MAC address). I think that is what he said it does and noone has been able to refute that with evidence. So the EULA won't say does not send anything. It's whether what it does send is acceptable to you. How do you think it will know what updates you will need if can't send back information about what version you have, again with activation sending information as well as maybe DRM checks making sure the game application hasn't been cracked or tampered with (which is reasonable thing to do to be honest imho). So by your own wording your breaking your own worded EULA.

You seem to nitpicking my words. What I say, EULA should reflect WHAT the Origin client actually does.
Now you say, it does that.

I say Origin client acts like Spyware.
Dmes say it doesn't.
I say, but in even Origin EULA says it does, it's action are like Spyware.

Now we start argue about data collection and what's spyware. You self sayed it collects data.

I don't accept ANY data collection for ANY reason. So not acceptable EULA.

Do I look like I'm happy customer when it comes related Origin client?

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 janvier 2012 - 06:43 .