3659 réponses à ce sujet

[Dragoonlordz]

dmex wrote...

The availability of Cloud sync means the publisher will be able to sync game saves to the Cloud so you're able to go to a friends or work and continue from your last save the night/week/month before. It also means you don't need to worry about backing them up when you reinstall Windows.

Any idea when we gonna get this service since I don't see it on current version of the client and I could really have benifited from it few weeks back when lost my saves locally. Granted I own a lot of data recovery software so might be able to get it back though probably would be corrupted by now.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 23 janvier 2012 - 10:13 .

[DashRunner92]

dmex wrote...

Mister Mida wrote... 
Also having pre-implemented features like chatting makes developers only lazy, or they're limited on their own options since they can't change the pre-implements and are forced to use it.

Publishers won't be limited, DICE for example implemented their own friends and chat on Battlelog instead of using Origin. 

Don't remind me, that system was terrible. Who could of possibly thought it was a good idea that in order to switch servers, you had to do it from the browser >_<

[Bostur]

I don't get it. How can an online DRM system like Origin, allow for end of life activation? If EA stop supporting Origin and the servers are taken down, how will that work?

As Furtled correctly points out even ancient games often work decades later. It takes some fiddling, but thats mostly due to OS compatibility issues, not DRM.

[Lumikki]

Furtled wrote...

@Lumikki

Dragoonlordz's interpretations of EU data retention laws are a little uninformed at best, I'd hold off taking anything they claim as fact in discussions with them. I'm sure it's not a deliberate attempt to deceive on their part, it's a complicated area and there's a lot of misinformation floating about in this thread.

I know, but how Dragoonlordz's interpretations of EU laws, isn't really much of issue.

Real issue is like what happen with Ubisoft. They decission was they to make, no-one is denying it. But when company lose 90% of customers because that decission, was it good decission?

Dragoonlordz's still belive what EA does, is the right choice to EA. I how ever think, when companay starts counting only profit and they personal needs and stops listen they customers needs, it's going wrong direction. Specially something so important than they customers right for privacy and freedom to make they own choices. It's not gonna be good business anymore, even if they have right to make that choice by laws.

Business is contract respect between two sides. If other side doesn't anymore respect other side in contract or trust is lost, it's not gonna end well.

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 janvier 2012 - 10:16 .

[jamesp81]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

What do you class as your personal identifiable information, I believe Dmex already said by law they have to keep a record of your IP and Mac address for a set period. That cannot be purged until the time period expires. So whats left that you consider personal identifiable information?

I comment little bit this, even when it's not really target for me.

You need to seperate personal identiffiable information and what person thinks is personal information. Because laws talks about personal identiffiable information as requirement. But what person feels as intrusion of privacy can be very different based different persons.

EA and Dmex talks about what law covers, because they have to as been part of company, to think laws. But they only think what LAW allows them to do, not what they customers define as they privacy. It's conflict of interest.

Person think this is private, but does law say's so too? Who's right? Both. Because what is personal is definded by every person as individual, but what is writen in law as rules, can be "played" by companies.  You can't write in laws something what is depending every persons own definations. You can only write what's common base for everyone.

Now company how ever, doesn't have to follow anything else than law says. But that doesn't cover every persons individual defination about they own privacy. Because no-one else can define it, than them self. So, it comes in end does company respect customers defination or just follow the laws. EA is using laws as get as much information laws allows them. But not all customers how ever accept this, because it's too much for some of them. So, these customers ask give me choice to say yes/no to something what's related they own personal privacy. Company how ever, doesn't care enough, because law does't force them.

That's what this is about. Respect of Customers.

Which is why I asked what he felt was in his opinion the personal information he mean't.

Everyone regardless of their opinion on privacy should follow the laws in their respective countries or leave that country if they cannot change the law. A company especially has to play by the rules and obey the law regardless of how customers may feel. As mentioned by law they have to keep records of IP and Mac addresses in Europe (I don't know what law is in USA). It's not about respect or lack of for customers when a company obeys the law.  With credit card information he mentioned he can ask them to remove that information from their system legally, his address registered on sites is because thats for his own security to prevent people stealing his accounts. His IP and Mac address (in Europe atleast) has to be on file he gets no choice in this by law, maybe someone more familiar with USA law can answer about USA stance but I was answering from European viewpoint. 

Again, what EA does in Europe is not my concern.

Such draconian data collection is not required by law in the US and should not be done.

[Sylvius the Mad]

dmex wrote...

* Centeralised patch management.

This is the thing that bothers me about how Steam works, and I'm hoping Origin does it differently.

Normally, I can choose which patches I want to install, and I can etst them, and then remove them if I don't like them.

If I buy a game long after release, I can choose which patches I would like to install up to and including the most recent one.

Steam doesn't let me do this.  If I install a Steam game, I'm required to patch it up all the way to the current version the first time, and only after I've done that can I opt out of future patches.  Furthermore, there is no mechanism at all for me to install patches, test them to see what they do, and then rollback.

Will Origin let me install the patches myself?  Will Origin let me install old patches only?  Will Origin let me rollback to earlier versions?

For example, when BioWare released NWN in 2002, I really liked its core mechanics.  Patch 1.03, though, fundamentally changed those mechanics by removing friendly fire from enemies, so they could no longer kill themselves or each other by accident.  That, I think, broke the game, and I refused to install that patch.  Will Origin let me undo patches?  Will Origin let me install only those patches I want, even if subsequent patches have already been released?

[Troodon80]

dmex wrote...

No, They will still be saved locally.

The availability of Cloud sync means the publisher will be able to sync game saves to the Cloud so you're able to go to a friends or work and continue from your last save the night/week/month before. It also means you don't need to worry about backing them up when you reinstall Windows.

Ah, okay, thank you. (Won't get answers unless you ask ).

[Dragoonlordz]

Furtled wrote...

@Lumikki

Dragoonlordz's interpretations of EU data retention laws are a little uninformed at best, I'd hold off taking anything they claim as fact in discussions with them. I'm sure it's not a deliberate attempt to deceive on their part, it's a complicated area and there's a lot of misinformation floating about in this thread.

Well I did say "I think", there's a element of guessing going on there. 

[craigdolphin]

I think I'd add one more benefit to ea's decision to standardize their drm with origin. It's a first party product which means not forcing people to install third party drm solutions like securom or tages. As a customer of bioware, I'm more willing to have them use a first party product than a third party one. That way, if something goes awry, there's no passing the buck. Ea's product, ea's responsibility to make it work.

Frankly, as much as a distrust ea, I trust them a lot more than Sony dadc who make securom and the xcp rootkit.

And ea have an incentive to make customers happier with their product. Sony dadc only have to make ea happy and don' t have to give a rip about the gamers impacted by their product.

With origin, if I buy an ea game, I deal with ea and ea only. That's better than buying an ea game and then having to deal with the two headed monster of ea + Sony dadc.

As an aside, what I think lumikki is trying to say is that EA has to collect the minimum allowed by law, but her issue is that they are going beyond that to store additional information. Or at
least, the Eula appears to be written in a way that gives them that right. (sorry if that's incorrect lumikki, I'm having trouble parsing your posts)

Which is why I am still waiting to hear if an explicit opt out is going to be provided or not.

And yes, many of those benefits demx mentioned are benefits for the publisher and potentially for the debs too. I have no problem with that. As long as the origin service respects privacy, is secure, and respects my right to access my purchased games in the long term, I can live with it. And if we can bring ea to the point where is does all those things, then I can finally stop stressing over every new game that bioware releases waiting to see what crazy drm-nonsense they'll come up with next.

We need a long term solution that works for both ea's ridiculous piracy paranoia, as well as for our rights to play the games we pay for without having to learn to ins and outs of yet another stupid third party drm system and how ea have decided to implement it in each case.

I'm sure Chris Priestly would have a much happier life without worrying about the negative publicity risks of the drm announcement with each title too. But, the key proviso here's that ea must make origin an acceptable solution to it's pc customers or it's going to continue to be a festering sore.

EA has ample reason to want t make origin a success, as demx outlined. For everyone's sake, I hope that they do edit the Eula to clarify their intent to only store the minimum data lowed by law, and to provide an opt out clause for everything else that they'd like to collect for marketing/support purposes. Also to ensure that single player game access will not be curtailed in the future if we decide not to agree to future Eula changes, or bans etc.

If they do that, then I would be a very happy camper.

Modifié par craigdolphin, 23 janvier 2012 - 10:24 .

[Furtled]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
Well I did say "I think", there's a element of guessing going on there. 

Your choice of phrasing and subsequent arguments imply you're discussing these things as facts when they're not, it'd be better and less confusing for others who are just dipping in and out of this thread (or who have not been following this discussion as long as you have) to refrain from doing so. I don't think you're deliberately misleading people, but that's the net result of what you've been posting and it's dragging things off track far more than they need to be.

Hope that makes things clearer and if you've any questions feel free to PM me.

Modifié par Furtled, 23 janvier 2012 - 10:58 .

[Icinix]

Does anyone know if Origin can be logged on to more than one computer at once?

[Mister Mida]

dmex wrote...

You're only secure as the weakest link, over 1000 authentication portals and methods means more links, more possible holes and makes them an easy target since something might be missed, one authentication portal means one very strong link thats easy to review and easy to secure.

The good thing about decentralization is that it's disconnected; if a component fails, the rest will keep functioning. If some hacker screws up the system because he wants to bugger the BF3 guys, everyone else will be affected as well. If a developer or a small publisher wants to create one system to manage everything, the potential damage is more acceptable than when a big pub as EA gets attacked.
And you can't convince me that this one very strong link is strong enough for everything. If EA would give a reason, groups like Any would have a field day with Origin.

[Lumikki]

craigdolphin wrote...

As an aside, what I think lumikki is trying to say is that EA has to collect the minimum allowed by law, but her issue is that they are going beyond that to store additional information. Or at least, the Eula appears to be written in a way that gives them that right. (sorry if that's incorrect lumikki, I'm having trouble parsing your posts)

EA has ample reason to want t make origin a success, as demx outlined. For everyone's sake, I hope that they do edit the Eula to clarify their intent to only store the minimum data lowed by law, and to provide an opt out clause for everything else that they'd like to collect for marketing/support purposes. Also to ensure that single player game access will not be curtailed in the future if we decide not to agree to future Eula changes, or bans etc.

If they do that, then I would be a very happy camper.

Yeah, that is what I try to say with my bad english.

Basicly EA should only collect what law requires as minimum requirement. Rest data collection should be optional (software and EULA), desided by EA's customers as choice, because it's about customers privacy. This ways EA would respect customers and customers can trust EA.

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 janvier 2012 - 10:31 .

[Furtled]

Lumikki wrote...
Dragoonlordz's still belive what EA does, is the right choice to EA. I how ever think, when companay starts counting only profit and they personal needs and stops listen they customers needs, it's going wrong direction. Specially something so important than they customers right for privacy and freedom to make they own choices. It's not gonna be good business anymore, even if they have right to make that choice by laws.

Business is contract respect between two sides. If other side doesn't anymore respect other side in contract or trust is lost, it's not gonna end well.

I think if you want Dragoonlordz and others to try and understand your position sometimes you need to respect theirs too, no matter how little sense it might make to you.

Personally I agree with you, customer relationships should be built on mutual trust; this isn't they way I'd ever chose to conduct my business and if my place ever started marketing our products using this sort of approach (or god forbid, the sort of strategy Ubisoft have adopted towards the PC market) I'd be out of there like a shot.

[Ottemis]

Fatemaster wrote...

Okay, very dumb question: How do I install Origin?

With two sticks and pure rage! (I kid)

Modifié par Ottemis, 23 janvier 2012 - 10:33 .

[billy the squid]

jamesp81 wrote...

Again, what EA does in Europe is not my concern.

Such draconian data collection is not required by law in the US and should not be done.

Unfortunately your own data privicy laws are underwhelming, there is no universal legal data protection legislation it being administered locally and varying from state to state and the general approach seems to be far more flexible in what can and cannot be collected. So I can see why this may be an issue.

[Lumikki]

Furtled wrote...

I think if you want Dragoonlordz and others to try and understand your position sometimes you need to respect theirs too, no matter how little sense it might make to you.

You mean wanting to use Origin client and be part of data collection and so on?

I have nothing agaist that. I respect that everyone can make they own choices as they want. That's the hole point.
I'm not trying to take away anything from other customers, only from EA. I want every customers have all options.

Modifié par Lumikki, 23 janvier 2012 - 10:41 .

[dmex]

 

Dragoonlordz wrote...

dmex wrote...
The availability of Cloud sync means the publisher will be able to sync game saves to the Cloud so you're able to go to a friends or work and continue from your last save the night/week/month before. It also means you don't need to worry about backing them up when you reinstall Windows.

Any idea when we gonna get this service since I don't see it on current version of the client and I could really have benifited from it few weeks back when lost my saves locally. Granted I own a lot of data recovery software so might be able to get it back though probably would be corrupted by now.

I know how you feel, Some games should already support syncing game saves (BF3, BFBC2, Dead Space 2 and a few more), it's entirely the publishers decision to use Cloud sync for game saves.

DashRunner92 wrote...

dmex wrote...

Mister Mida wrote... Also having pre-implemented features like chatting makes developers only lazy, or they're limited on their own options since they can't change the pre-implements and are forced to use it.

Publishers won't be limited, DICE for example implemented their own friends and chat on Battlelog instead of using Origin. 

Don't remind me, that system was terrible. Who could of possibly thought it was a good idea that in order to switch servers, you had to do it from the browser >_<

Personally, I don't like Battlelog, the extra 300mb for the browser and the browsers fps usage can be annoying.
One of the things I started adding for OO is a built-in server browser: http://i.imgur.com/5JHcT.png

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

dmex wrote...
* Centeralised patch management.

This is the thing that bothers me about how Steam works, and I'm hoping Origin does it differently.

I'm hoping I'll learn how to spell 'Centeralised' as centralized. 

Sylvius the Mad wrote...Normally, I can choose which patches I want to install, and I can etst them, and then remove them if I don't like them.
If I buy a game long after release, I can choose which patches I would like to install up to and including the most recent one.
Steam doesn't let me do this.  If I install a Steam game, I'm required to patch it up all the way to the current version the first time, and only after I've done that can I opt out of future patches.  Furthermore, there is no mechanism at all for me to install patches, test them to see what they do, and then rollback.
Will Origin let me install the patches myself?  Will Origin let me install old patches only?  Will Origin let me rollback to earlier versions?
For example, when BioWare released NWN in 2002, I really liked its core mechanics.  Patch 1.03, though, fundamentally changed those mechanics by removing friendly fire from enemies, so they could no longer kill themselves or each other by accident.  That, I think, broke the game, and I refused to install that patch.  Will Origin let me undo patches?  Will Origin let me install only those patches I want, even if subsequent patches have already been released?

Unfortunately, for now at least, it'll be the same as Steam.

Modifié par dmex, 23 janvier 2012 - 10:43 .

[Furtled]

Bostur wrote...
I don't get it. How can an online DRM system like Origin, allow for end of life activation? If EA stop supporting Origin and the servers are taken down, how will that work?

As Furtled correctly points out even ancient games often work decades later. It takes some fiddling, but thats mostly due to OS compatibility issues, not DRM.

Case in point - I installed Wing Commander IV over the weekend to compare the space combat to SWTOR's, it's an EA title from 1995 and worked perfectly well once I'd entered the CD key. Can EA really guarantee I'll be able to try and install Mass Effect 3 in seventeen year's time and get the same result if it's tied into the Origin client?

And yes I am aware that the same can be said of ME1 & 2 given their online activation set-up but I'd imagine by that point BioWare will forgive me if I (or my inevitable robot overlords butler) find a way around that issue (assuming BioWare don't release DRM removal patches by then) for a couple of nearly twenty year old games. That's if we're not downloading the things directly into our brains by that point or all dead due to the oft pondered zombie uprising/alien invasion - obviously.

Modifié par Furtled, 24 janvier 2012 - 12:25 .

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

dmex wrote...

 

Dragoonlordz wrote...

dmex wrote...
The availability of Cloud sync means the publisher will be able to sync game saves to the Cloud so you're able to go to a friends or work and continue from your last save the night/week/month before. It also means you don't need to worry about backing them up when you reinstall Windows.

Any idea when we gonna get this service since I don't see it on current version of the client and I could really have benifited from it few weeks back when lost my saves locally. Granted I own a lot of data recovery software so might be able to get it back though probably would be corrupted by now.

Some games should already support syncing game saves (BF3, BFBC2, Dead Space 2 and a few more), it's entirely the publishers decision to use Cloud sync for game saves.

DashRunner92 wrote...

dmex wrote...

Mister Mida wrote... Also having pre-implemented features like chatting makes developers only lazy, or they're limited on their own options since they can't change the pre-implements and are forced to use it.

Publishers won't be limited, DICE for example implemented their own friends and chat on Battlelog instead of using Origin. 

Don't remind me, that system was terrible. Who could of possibly thought it was a good idea that in order to switch servers, you had to do it from the browser >_<

Personally, I don't like Battlelog, the extra 300mb for the browser and the browsers fps usage can be annoying.
One of the things I started adding for OO is a built-in server browser: http://i.imgur.com/5JHcT.png

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

dmex wrote...
* Centeralised patch management.

This is the thing that bothers me about how Steam works, and I'm hoping Origin does it differently.

I'm hoping I'll learn how to spell 'Centeralised' as centralized.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...Normally, I can choose which patches I want to install, and I can etst them, and then remove them if I don't like them.
If I buy a game long after release, I can choose which patches I would like to install up to and including the most recent one.
Steam doesn't let me do this.  If I install a Steam game, I'm required to patch it up all the way to the current version the first time, and only after I've done that can I opt out of future patches.  Furthermore, there is no mechanism at all for me to install patches, test them to see what they do, and then rollback.
Will Origin let me install the patches myself?  Will Origin let me install old patches only?  Will Origin let me rollback to earlier versions?
For example, when BioWare released NWN in 2002, I really liked its core mechanics.  Patch 1.03, though, fundamentally changed those mechanics by removing friendly fire from enemies, so they could no longer kill themselves or each other by accident.  That, I think, broke the game, and I refused to install that patch.  Will Origin let me undo patches?  Will Origin let me install only those patches I want, even if subsequent patches have already been released?

Unfortunately, for now at least, it'll be the same as Steam.

Sorry to ask because its been asked 100 times, but will Mass Effect 3 run through the Origin client itself (as in running in Origin offline mode?)  or can it run "independently" but still require Origin installed?

Thanks.

[Dragoonlordz]

dmex wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

dmex wrote...
The availability of Cloud sync means the publisher will be able to sync game saves to the Cloud so you're able to go to a friends or work and continue from your last save the night/week/month before. It also means you don't need to worry about backing them up when you reinstall Windows.

Any idea when we gonna get this service since I don't see it on current version of the client and I could really have benifited from it few weeks back when lost my saves locally. Granted I own a lot of data recovery software so might be able to get it back though probably would be corrupted by now.

I know how you feel, Some games should already support syncing game saves (BF3, BFBC2, Dead Space 2 and a few more), it's entirely the publishers decision to use Cloud sync for game saves.

Ok thanks. I guess I'll try to recover via data rocovery (worth a shot). Reminds me I have to defrag my HDD's after. >.<

[Furtled]

Lumikki wrote...
You mean wanting to use Origin client and be part of data collection and so on?

I have nothing agaist that. I respect that everyone can make they own choices as they want. That's the hole point. I'm not trying to take away anything from other customers, only from EA. I want every customers have all options.

Yep (sorry, that really should have been 'we' not 'you', I didn't mean to imply you weren't respecting people's choices) and again agreed, that's the core of my objections too. Mandatory Origin on ME3 removes customer choice and shows little respect for that customer in the first place.

Modifié par Furtled, 23 janvier 2012 - 11:57 .

[jeweledleah]

dmex wrote...


3) Right now when titles are retired by EA, the servers are shutdown, same games just don't work no more. Origin solves that problem.

4) If Microsoft/Valve goes kaput, it's the same situation, EA is very large and won't be an Enron.

eh?

if the online title is retired by EA how will origin fix that?  does it become the server, games are hosted on?  if offline titles are retired, how will origin fix it? you could just get a used game and use its CD key, since online activation for older games is not necessary

lastly - the major reason Iike steam outside of all the lovely amenities is that while I take a risk with no longer being able to play games I bought from them in a future, if they go under - their semi annual sale prices are the best in business (even for EA titles they are still carrying - like their 5 dollar deal on ME1 and ME2 for instance, during winter sale).  unless EA matches the that, all I get with origin is the client that has to be run in a background to play the game. which will make me very reluctant when it comes to buying EA titles in a future.  at least before Origin, if I bought a single player game even if Ibought it for full purchase price, I knew that as long as that disk and CD key is in my posession?  I'll be able to replay it on a whim.

lastly - the wording that bothered me in EULA was not collection of IP, origin username and password.  I wasn't bothered by collection of game data either.  what bothered me is the implication that it will scan my entire harddrive, catalog every single piece of software I have installed, how often I use it, potentialy my stored usernames and passwords for my bank, etc, not to mention scanning and cataloging my internet habits. 

whether the origin will actualy do it, is up to debate, but the wording gave enough of an opening for them to be able to do it legaly in a future, once you agree to it. and that just doesn't sit well with me

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

Damn it why do I always miss dmex by a matter of minutes.

[dmex]

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

Sorry to ask because its been asked 100 times, but will Mass Effect 3 run through the Origin client itself (as in running in Origin offline mode?)  or can it run "independently" but still require Origin installed?

Thanks.

All games (after initial activation, if the game requires activation) should function when Origin is in offline mode, if they don't I would consider that a bug with the game and/or Origin's offline mode, as to if it can "run "independently" but still require Origin installed" is entirely BioWare's choice as to how they deploy ME3.