3659 réponses à ce sujet

[Stanley Woo]

Forbidden wrote...
 I'm the one being asked to give EA money for their software.  They want me to buy their games, I'm telling them what will convince me to do that.  As of now, they won't be getting any of my money if they require me to install malware along with it.   I enjoyed the previous two mass effects and dragon age, but there are plenty of other games that don't require malware.  I'll be playing those instead.

Sorry, Forbidden, but there's a small semantic difference. You are not being "asked to give EA money." EA is publishing a product and, through various retailers, offering a product for sale. They are not demanding anything, not forcing the customer to do anything, but in fact, are doing what all companies do with every product available for sale: they are encouraging, enticing, and trying to persuade ordinary people like you and other gamers to buy the product.

The customer, as always, chooses--using whatever criteria they wish--whether they accept what is being offered at the price at which is being offered, or not. All these people saying they won't buy the game are choosing to exercise their right as gamers and customers to not buy the game. That is great, and I respect and admire them for standing firm in their convictions and being responsible consumers. What I cannot and do not agree with is those same customers putting conditions on their purchases as if we were selling this game at a bazaar and haggling over price. That is not the relationship between buyer and seller here. As a publisher, EA is not going to take "counteroffers" or "conditions" from every individual gamer, least of all on BioWare's discussion forum. If you choose to buy Mass Effect 3, you are doing so with the full knowledge and (albeit grudging) acceptance that it comes with Origin. If you don't believe Origin is worth the cost (in money, features, privacy, or other principles), then you choose to not buy the product.

So continue to make a stand against Origin if you wish--awesome. Proudly proclaim your opinions regarding data privacy--fantastic. State your intentions to not buy if Origin is required--great! But Chris has already given you the answer that Mass Effect 3 will come with Origin and that Origin is required to play Mass Effect 3. Hoping for an eventual change is fine; demanding a change is not, at this time, productive. Sorry.

[LittleDiegito]

Stanley Woo wrote...

they are encouraging, enticing, and trying to persuade ordinary people like you and other gamers to buy the product.

Unfortunately for me personally all of those things are better done by not including Origin. I still dont get why its required for a retail pysical copy to be played offline. Im not (and dont think I ever have) demanding or anything. Just, as you said, hoping that decision will be reconsidered. *Sigh*

[Vendrium]

Stanley Woo wrote...
Hoping for an eventual change is fine; demanding a change is not, at this time, productive. Sorry.

"at this time"

Does that mean it could change in the future? 

[Troodon80]

Stanley Woo wrote...
But Chris has already given you the answer that Mass Effect 3 will come with Origin and that Origin is required to play Mass Effect 3.

But the question(s) as to whether or not there will be independent patch files available on the BioWare Social Network, as they currently are, will also be available in Mass Effect 3 has not been answered. For some of us, Mr. Woo, it's not a matter of "Proudly proclaiming" anything due to the requirement of having Origin installed. For the record, I do not care one bit in the least if it has to be installed. For some of us it won't be a choice unless some questions are answered. Not everyone has super fast internet like people do in Edmonton or in America. In fact, I know of people in America where internet other than dialup is simply unavailable. Perhaps you can tell us what happens to those people? Is it the typical "tough luck, I guess," that is often heard from large companies who simply don't care about the consumer? Does "loyal fan" (unlike some here, I didn't start with Baldur's Gate, I started with Shattered Steel) mean nothing anymore?

With Origin comes questions other than what is in the EULA, or to do with privacy. However, for the most part, they are being ignored.

All we ask is that some sort of answer, one way or the other, be given-- even if it just a reply that says they are looking into getting an answer.

[Icinix]

Troodon80 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...
But Chris has already given you the answer that Mass Effect 3 will come with Origin and that Origin is required to play Mass Effect 3.

But the question(s) as to whether or not there will be independent patch files available on the BioWare Social Network, as they currently are, will also be available in Mass Effect 3 has not been answered. For some of us, Mr. Woo, it's not a matter of "Proudly proclaiming" anything due to the requirement of having Origin installed. For the record, I do not care one bit in the least if it has to be installed. For some of us it won't be a choice unless some questions are answered. Not everyone has super fast internet like people do in Edmonton or in America. In fact, I know of people in America where internet other than dialup is simply unavailable. Perhaps you can tell us what happens to those people? Is it the typical "tough luck, I guess," that is often heard from large companies who simply don't care about the consumer? Does "loyal fan" (unlike some here, I didn't start with Baldur's Gate, I started with Shattered Steel) mean nothing anymore?

With Origin comes questions other than what is in the EULA, or to do with privacy. However, for the most part, they are being ignored.

All we ask is that some sort of answer, one way or the other, be given-- even if it just a reply that says they are looking into getting an answer.

Are you asking if you can download Patch 1.4b.exe rather than needing to update through Origin?

I would like to know the answer to this too - I have to run Steam in a state of permanent offline (and sometimes it ignores me and goes online anway) to stop it from stopping me playing single player games because it wants to update for no reason. And our internet is not....fast...or reliable for that matter.

[Lumikki]

Stanley Woo wrote...

So continue to make a stand against Origin if you wish--awesome. Proudly proclaim your opinions regarding data privacy--fantastic. State your intentions to not buy if Origin is required--great! But Chris has already given you the answer that Mass Effect 3 will come with Origin and that Origin is required to play Mass Effect 3. Hoping for an eventual change is fine; demanding a change is not, at this time, productive. Sorry.

That's why you lose customers. So losing customers is good business for EA?

Also you don't seem to understand, I'm not hoping the change, I'm demanding.  Because how you behave is inexcusable for company. If you can't even add one option in you software, like asking from you customers do they want to be part of data collection or not, then you are out of excuses. You are invading you customers privacy by purpose, against your customers rights to make they own choices for they own computer privacy.

So, your company will not get my money as long you are disrespectful toward your customers and I'm not Sorry. You do not deserve my support. 

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 janvier 2012 - 08:59 .

[hangmans tree]

Ugh, I got lost somewhere 20 pages ago.
I see its still inconclusive...
Whatever. I am infuriated by ACTA right now. And by lenght the CONTROL every company/government trying to exert over human beings.

I'm not a little child, I know better. I refuse the approach when I must hold a hand of a Big Brother who tells me what is right and good for me. Who gave you the power to say what I can and cant do with the physical product I bought anyway?
Companies already are at liberty to restrict reselling our games which is in contradiction with consumer rights!
Whats next?

Its not about Origin being another platform. Its about control and our self-determination that is melting like a snowflake in a fiery grip. Soon to be non-existent really. I stay away from Steam and the like as far as possible, but its hard to find a good game lately, one which is not Steambound.

Maybe younger generation doesnt see the problem (lack of experience I might presume)... because no one educates them. Waving your right here and there will end up in enslavement... or riot. Maybe both.

Ubi is wondering why the PC is selling bad and only viable answer is PIRACY! Maybe Ubi should take the bucket off of its head to see a broader picture?
I see EA following in the footsteps. Region locks, localisation, Origin... and do you know what you call preforming the same action over and over and expecting different results? Oh, and I know about the contradiction in this quote so dont be nitpicking.

Of course I have the power to choose to buy or not to buy... but is this a preferable situation? Is EA fine with this?And I thought it was to be the next big thing.

Oh, and what is ACTA you ask?

well, you cant say its ME3 unrelated coz there is a reaper at the end of the video , no, really.

Modifié par hangmans tree, 24 janvier 2012 - 09:09 .

[Aliens Crew]

Oh. I'm confused, Stanley Woo.

Does BioWare/EA not really care what their customers want? Strange methods of business, I think.

[AlanC9]

Lumikki wrote...

That's why you lose customers. So losing customers is good business for EA?

Depends on which customers you're losing. And how many.

[Icinix]

Aliens Crew wrote...

Oh. I'm confused, Stanley Woo.

Does BioWare/EA not really care what their customers want? Strange methods of business, I think.

No - they just don't want you to buy the game if you don't agree with their methods.

Now - this in theory should work well - but if we have learned anything from Ubisoft - if customers stop buying their games they just cry like hungry angry babies and tell people they don't want to develop for PC anymore.

[Lumikki]

AlanC9 wrote...

Lumikki wrote...

That's why you lose customers. So losing customers is good business for EA?

Depends on which customers you're losing. And how many.

X = current customers who accept data collection
Y = current customers who does not accept data collection
Z = new customers because Origin client, the digital distribution software, accepts data collection.

Current customer base is X+Y
Comming customer base is X - Y + Z

If they would add data collection in origin client as optional choice.
Customer base would be X + Y + Z

It's not hard to even children to see that they choice ONLY lose customers. What does it matter how many customers is lost, when it can be fixed very easyly in Origin software. Anyone who understand programming languages knows it. As for what customers they are? They are paying customers.

What does EA lose by adding the option? They will lose Y's private data, but they would not get it anyway (lost customers).
What does EA gain by adding the option? They get also Y's money and respect and trust of they customers.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 janvier 2012 - 09:38 .

[Troodon80]

Icinix wrote...
Are you asking if you can download Patch 1.4b.exe rather than needing to update through Origin?

I would like to know the answer to this too - I have to run Steam in a state of permanent offline (and sometimes it ignores me and goes online anway) to stop it from stopping me playing single player games because it wants to update for no reason. And our internet is not....fast...or reliable for that matter.

Yes, I am. I would like to see the retention of downloadable executable files from the BioWare Social Network; as it currently is with Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 2. At least I have the option of going to an internet cafe to download large files. Most people have the option of going to a friends' house or going to an internet cafe. However, making it so you must download the patches on the computer where the game is installed is not always an option. Perhaps in 20 years, but not right now (in fact, telecommunications are so bad in places like Britain and Ireland that there is a plan to lay a dark fibre optic cable under the Atlantic ocean (some 3500 miles) from America, no joke).

The unfortunate thing with Steam, which is why it annoys me, is the fact that I am required to download any patches during the installation rather than choosing afterwards. If the game comes with a 0-day patch, then it is effectively unplayable for me. The only way I can play Steam games to install them and then disconnect my main computer from the internet entirely. There have been some annoyances in that the Credentials seem to either get corrupt or go missing, and I cannot turn to the Offline mode until I connect to the internet again.

I would hope that Origin allows me to pick when I want to download patches, and preferably where (i.e. the BSN. This also includes DLC, otherwise I get the standard game (actually I get the CE, but I don't get to download the DLC unless it is separate download I can do away from home)). If it is required simply to play and/or activate, then that's fine, but I don't want to download anything through it.

[Icinix]

@Troodon80 - I understand that - I live in Central Australia - downloading patches from work is how I usually go about things - even that takes some time. When Skyrim came out - I hate to way a hell of a long time before I could play it - because even though I had the retail collectors edition, Steams like "No, no. Let me help you. We MUST install this patch." It really blew.

The forced patch updating etc really gives me the heebie jeebies.

Yeah - agreed. I have no issue with Origin - but its going to cause a lot of frustration if it tries the same rubbish that Steam tries.

[Lumikki]

Icinix wrote...

Yeah - agreed. I have no issue with Origin - but its going to cause a lot of frustration if it tries the same rubbish that Steam tries.

That's because your freedom to make your own choices isn't there.

Like they tell you how you should do it, they don't give you choices how you want to do it. That's the hole issue here. Company is telling how we should do stuff, not asking how we want to do stuff. It's about lack of choices.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 janvier 2012 - 09:48 .

[Icinix]

Lumikki wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Yeah - agreed. I have no issue with Origin - but its going to cause a lot of frustration if it tries the same rubbish that Steam tries.

That's because your freedom to make your own choices isn't there.

Like they tell you how you should do it, they don't give you choices how you want to do it. That's the hole issue here. Company is telling how we should do stuff, not asking how we want to do stuff.

Oh that I agree with whole heartedly - however - I'm prepared to tolerate Origin if it behaves in a manner which is better for me.

I hate the fact I have to use Steam / Origin / Windows Live etc - I think its wrong that you can buy one piece of software and have another one installed without your consent.

But since its pretty clear EA doesn't want to back down on the Origin issue (I think this is wrong, I think it will end up making them the next UbiSoft) - I'm hoping there is at least some level of control allowed - especially for those in areas where it is actually going to be detrimental to the game experience in massive ways.

I refer of course to the inability to play the game because you're waiting yet again for a force patch update to download.

[Clive Howlitzer]

I am getting really fed up with all the consumer control going on nowadays, between all these Government bills being passed, support by major companies, publishers, etc. Its play their way, or no way. It makes me too angry to want to give my money to anyone.

[Aliens Crew]

Icinix wrote...

Aliens Crew wrote...

Oh. I'm confused, Stanley Woo.

Does BioWare/EA not really care what their customers want? Strange methods of business, I think.

No - they just don't want you to buy the game if you don't agree with their methods.

Now - this in theory should work well - but if we have learned anything from Ubisoft - if customers stop buying their games they just cry like hungry angry babies and tell people they don't want to develop for PC anymore.

And I think they want to make money instead of kicking the asses of their customers. My mistake.

If they don't want to make PC-Games anymore, when they shouldn't just do it. They don't need to anger us with useless rubbish like origin.

[Icinix]

Clive Howlitzer wrote...

I am getting really fed up with all the consumer control going on nowadays, between all these Government bills being passed, support by major companies, publishers, etc. Its play their way, or no way. It makes me too angry to want to give my money to anyone.

Don't worry. So many people are prepared to give up their freedoms and privacy so willingly, that within a couple of generations, we'll be living in a 1984 Orwellian State - and no-one will even remember what Freedom and Privacy were. We can all be blissfully happy.

Love your government. Everything is fine.

[Clive Howlitzer]

Icinix wrote...

Clive Howlitzer wrote...

I am getting really fed up with all the consumer control going on nowadays, between all these Government bills being passed, support by major companies, publishers, etc. Its play their way, or no way. It makes me too angry to want to give my money to anyone.

Don't worry. So many people are prepared to give up their freedoms and privacy so willingly, that within a couple of generations, we'll be living in a 1984 Orwellian State - and no-one will even remember what Freedom and Privacy were. We can all be blissfully happy.

Love your government. Everything is fine.

Yeah, it infuriates me how easily people give those things up just for a little bit of security. Or people who don't realize how important they are. Even worse is when they just don't care, total apathy to the situation. Its a slippery slope that we are all sliding down.

[Ottemis]

Clive Howlitzer wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Clive Howlitzer wrote...

I am getting really fed up with all the consumer control going on nowadays, between all these Government bills being passed, support by major companies, publishers, etc. Its play their way, or no way. It makes me too angry to want to give my money to anyone.

Don't worry. So many people are prepared to give up their freedoms and privacy so willingly, that within a couple of generations, we'll be living in a 1984 Orwellian State - and no-one will even remember what Freedom and Privacy were. We can all be blissfully happy.

Love your government. Everything is fine.

Yeah, it infuriates me how easily people give those things up just for a little bit of security. Or people who don't realize how important they are. Even worse is when they just don't care, total apathy to the situation. Its a slippery slope that we are all sliding down.

For alot of us it's about prioritisation, for some maybe even survival.
Don't assume to know people or their motives for not getting involved in this particular struggle as you do.
There's tons of slippery slopes, you gotta pick your battles, other people not picking this particular one at this particular time with you doesn't mean you can assume to know anything about them. Don't casually insult people, it doesn't make you look good.

Modifié par Ottemis, 24 janvier 2012 - 10:05 .

[Lumikki]

Clive Howlitzer wrote...

I am getting really fed up with all the consumer control going on nowadays, between all these Government bills being passed, support by major companies, publishers, etc. Its play their way, or no way. It makes me too angry to want to give my money to anyone.

Of course, because they are the bosses, they tell us what to do, because we have no brains to think for our selfs. We are just little sheeps who needs to obey and give our money to them, when they say and how they say. I ques we should be grateful for been used as sheeps. If these bosses would actually do mistake, they can't admit it, because how can boss be wrong. There is no possibility that some low life sheeps could be right.

Of couse, sometimes some poor sheeps decides not to obey. Saying, enough, I make my own decissions.

Freedom to make your own choices isn't guaranteed, it has to be earned. Meaning you have to stand agaist someone who is preventing your make your own choices. Or you can be rest of you life just be sheep, obey others, be used by others.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 janvier 2012 - 10:14 .

[Clive Howlitzer]

Ottemis wrote...

Clive Howlitzer wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Clive Howlitzer wrote...

I am getting really fed up with all the consumer control going on nowadays, between all these Government bills being passed, support by major companies, publishers, etc. Its play their way, or no way. It makes me too angry to want to give my money to anyone.

Don't worry. So many people are prepared to give up their freedoms and privacy so willingly, that within a couple of generations, we'll be living in a 1984 Orwellian State - and no-one will even remember what Freedom and Privacy were. We can all be blissfully happy.

Love your government. Everything is fine.

Yeah, it infuriates me how easily people give those things up just for a little bit of security. Or people who don't realize how important they are. Even worse is when they just don't care, total apathy to the situation. Its a slippery slope that we are all sliding down.

For alot of us it's about prioritisation, for some maybe even survival.
Don't assume to know people or their motives for not getting involved in this particular struggle as you do.
There's tons of slippery slopes, you gotta pick your battles, other people not picking this particular one at this particular time with you doesn't mean you can assume to know anything about them. Don't casually insult people, it doesn't make you look good.

So you are fine with living in a fascist state with no liberty and no freedom? It isn't worth giving up freedom and liberty just to SURVIVE. I was talking about it in a broad sense, I am not talking about Origin. Although in the context of this thread, I am not sure how accepting bull**** like EA is doing is required for you to survive. Really REALLY want to play Mass Effect 3, huh?

[Icinix]

Aliens Crew wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Aliens Crew wrote...

Oh. I'm confused, Stanley Woo.

Does BioWare/EA not really care what their customers want? Strange methods of business, I think.

No - they just don't want you to buy the game if you don't agree with their methods.

Now - this in theory should work well - but if we have learned anything from Ubisoft - if customers stop buying their games they just cry like hungry angry babies and tell people they don't want to develop for PC anymore.

And I think they want to make money instead of kicking the asses of their customers. My mistake.

If they don't want to make PC-Games anymore, when they shouldn't just do it. They don't need to anger us with useless rubbish like origin.

Its like the companies themselves are torn between - do we go complete console or do we try to make as much scratch as possible out of the PC market? The issue they've got is what they're doing to the PC market is the very thing thats killing it and making it difficult for the consumer. If the consumer has choice, and I mean a far greater choice than, "Dur, do I buy this game? Or do I not?" - the consumer will buy - and since I love somewhat unconnected metaphors.

If you're hungry and think "Hmm.. I'll get a pie." and you go to a bakery, and they have many different types of pie. You're probably going to pick one and leave the store with a purchase and be satisfied AND come back another time to try a different pie. If they have one type of pie - you're not going to just automatically get the one type left, you'll probably go elsewhere or go get a hotdog - probably never to return because they didn't have anything you liked.

[Icinix]

Ottemis wrote...

Clive Howlitzer wrote...

Icinix wrote...

Clive Howlitzer wrote...

I am getting really fed up with all the consumer control going on nowadays, between all these Government bills being passed, support by major companies, publishers, etc. Its play their way, or no way. It makes me too angry to want to give my money to anyone.

Don't worry. So many people are prepared to give up their freedoms and privacy so willingly, that within a couple of generations, we'll be living in a 1984 Orwellian State - and no-one will even remember what Freedom and Privacy were. We can all be blissfully happy.

Love your government. Everything is fine.

Yeah, it infuriates me how easily people give those things up just for a little bit of security. Or people who don't realize how important they are. Even worse is when they just don't care, total apathy to the situation. Its a slippery slope that we are all sliding down.

For alot of us it's about prioritisation, for some maybe even survival.
Don't assume to know people or their motives for not getting involved in this particular struggle as you do.
There's tons of slippery slopes, you gotta pick your battles, other people not picking this particular one at this particular time with you doesn't mean you can assume to know anything about them. Don't casually insult people, it doesn't make you look good.

But some people are prepared to give up their freedoms and privacy so willingly - how is that incorrect? There was no assumption of motivation involved.

Regardless - it was a deeper comment directed at more than just Origin, but all the other interesting developments regarding personal freedoms and privacy that have been flicking about the last couple of years. It was more than just Origin.

Besides - as mentioned - I intend to use Origin - I actually think as far as digital platforms go - its looking better than the others. I just worry about why they insist on in being compulsory....I'm yet to hear a single reason as to why its actually needed.

[Mister Mida]

Icinix wrote...

Its like the companies themselves are torn between - do we go complete console or do we try to make as much scratch as possible out of the PC market? The issue they've got is what they're doing to the PC market is the very thing thats killing it and making it difficult for the consumer. If the consumer has choice, and I mean a far greater choice than, "Dur, do I buy this game? Or do I not?" - the consumer will buy - and since I love somewhat unconnected metaphors.

If you're hungry and think "Hmm.. I'll get a pie." and you go to a bakery, and they have many different types of pie. You're probably going to pick one and leave the store with a purchase and be satisfied AND come back another time to try a different pie. If they have one type of pie - you're not going to just automatically get the one type left, you'll probably go elsewhere or go get a hotdog - probably never to return because they didn't have anything you liked.

I don't see the point in going full console. After the current generation, there is probably only one more coming. Two maybe even. But the future is the PC, the unclaimed platform. The pubs think they now have the means to take control over it by establishing a permanent foothold on your system by using crap like Steam and Origin. And I don't like where this is going. Sooner or later, Activision and others will do the same thing and it'll only be a matter of time before we stop saying 'I game on the PC' and start saying 'I game on Steam' or 'I game on Origin'. It's corporate imperialism at its best.