3659 réponses à ce sujet

[Forbidden]

Aliens Crew wrote...

Oh. I'm confused, Stanley Woo.

Does BioWare/EA not really care what their customers want? Strange methods of business, I think.

A strange game... the only winning move is not to play.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Ottemis wrote...

**some stuff**

Winning?  Point? 

You've been telling people what to post for the entire thread. 

Just give it up. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 24 janvier 2012 - 02:50 .

[Ottemis]

And yet again, you miss the point. Fine, knock yourselves out. Infantile bull****.

Modifié par Ottemis, 24 janvier 2012 - 02:51 .

[Lumikki]

Furtled wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...
Unfortunately, yes, it seems so. The gaming industry (heck, the whole entertainment industry) is pushing for more and more control for them and less for the consumer. They want to be able to control how you use your product, when you use it, where you use it, how often you can use it, how you access it, and whether or not you can sell it off when you're done with it.

It seems you and I are of a similar age, as some of the old things you mentioned are very familiar to me as well. But I believe as a consequence of the digital age we've now moved into, many things are changing. Some not to our liking, and this is one of them. Is it destined to be this way? I don't know. But it sure seems like the industry is pushing for it.

Yep I'm old (and curmudgeonly - it was the mullets that gave it away wasn't it? ) but contrary to what some reading my walls-o-text might think I'm no Luddite.

Like you say, digital distribution and cloud gaming are one day going to be the way the majority play their games, there's no doubt about that (there are doubts about questions of ownership, security and pricing structures but that's another thing entirely), but we're not there yet. And I really don't think it's too much to ask that EA let me, and people like me, get to this at our own pace.

Yes I will very likely move into digital gaming eventually, but I'm a damn sight less likely to chose Origin as my digital gaming platform now than I was before this whole fiasco started.

As I see it EA have split their PC gaming customer base into the following scenarios:

• Customer buys game, installs Origin, plays it, keeps it, and continues to do all their game purchases through other (cheaper/better/more established) channels because EA still need to improve what they're offering to compete.
  
• Customer buys the game, begrudgingly installs Origin, finishes the game, de-installs both and never touches another Origin/EA product again due to the bad feeling the whole experience has left them with.
  
• Customer doesn't buy the game, customer is unhappy and left with a bad feeling towards EA. EA are unhappy because they lose out on a sale and any possible future custom.
  
• Customer decides an alternative route (we'll call it the naughty route and leave it at that) to play their game. 'Customer' is happy, EA are unhappy because they lose out on a sale and (potentially) any possible future custom.

The majority of these scenarios see EA losing a customer, some with more financial impact than others (business sidenote: getting customers back or pulling in new ones is far more expensive than retaining existing ones), but the loss of customer good will is what EA really should be concerned about and they really don't appear to be. That speaks volumes about EA's attitude towards it's customer base and doesn't bode well for me or anyone else who buys their products now or in the future.

That's the most frustrating thing for me through all of this, because from a business standpoint the fix for that problem is chuffing obvious; it's not easy, but it's not impossible either!

I agree

There is actually 3 possible different kind of fixes needed. Some are easyer and some harder.

1. How to fix the Origin client privacy issue as asking permission.

This is EXTREME easy, because this doesn't require anyting else than option where customer can choose YES or NO. Then add some few IF steatements where the data collection or data transmission is done in Origin software. That's it. I would say, some good programmer does this job under one hour.

2. How to fix Steam and ME3

This is difficult, because as ME3 is now connected to Origin and we don't know how. It may require own ME3 versions for Steam. But should be possible.

3. How to fix that Origin client would be free choice for retail versions.

This is also difficult, but also possible. Problem could be that Origin client may have design to have central DRM control system. This means that there is two ways to solve this. Seperate central DRM from Origin, want is not so easy, because there is allready softwares in sales what can use it. Other possibility is just build retail ME3 version without Origin and it's own DRM check. That's little better and maybe easyer choise. You would need some installer in DVD where to choose which version to install. (With Origin or without)

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 janvier 2012 - 03:01 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Ottemis wrote...

And yet again, you miss the point. Fine, knock yourselves out. Infantile bull****.

That's ironic coming from someone who has been tilting at windmills for almost 130 pages.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Lumikki wrote...


[*]3. How to fix that Origin client would be free choice for retail versions.

This is also difficult, but also possible. Problem could be that Origin client may have design to have central DRM control system. This means that there is two ways to solve this. Seperate central DRM from Origin, want is not so easy, because there is allready softwares in sales. Other possibility is just build retail ME3 version without Origin and it's own DRM check. That's little better and maybe easyer choise. You would need some installer in DVD where to choose which version to install. (With Origin or without)

Or they could go with the D"R"M that worked as well as any other -- just a CD check for the retail hardcopy.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 24 janvier 2012 - 03:02 .

[juplaa]

Now here’s an intresting idea: http://issuu.com/wik...ective_contract

Would be to fun to see EA receive a taste of their own medicine shoved up their ### (*) : Users base can change this contract whenever it’s wants. The public gets access to EA’s privacy to make sure they’re not doing anything fraudulent(same reasoning they use to invade our privacy), ...

Doubt it will happen anytime soon … one can only hope =)

(*) hint: The censored word has the function as EA’s PR department

[Hardin4188]

I don't think Bioware can set the terms this time. I don't blame Bioware for this, I know it's EA forcing this on us. It's just another sign that EA is taking more and more control like they did with the real Origin, Westwood, Bullfrog, and even Maxis. Soon Bioware will be just a name at this rate.

Modifié par Hardin4188, 24 janvier 2012 - 03:06 .

[Lumikki]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Lumikki wrote...


3. How to fix that Origin client would be free choice for retail versions.

This is also difficult, but also possible. Problem could be that Origin client may have design to have central DRM control system. This means that there is two ways to solve this. Seperate central DRM from Origin, want is not so easy, because there is allready softwares in sales. Other possibility is just build retail ME3 version without Origin and it's own DRM check. That's little better and maybe easyer choise. You would need some installer in DVD where to choose which version to install. (With Origin or without)

Or they could go with the D"R"M that worked as well as any other -- just a CD check for the retail hardcopy.

Actually, they can't because now customers can also have Origin client. You have to count possibility that someone actually buyes ME3 from retail even if they use Origin client. So, in DVD there has to be choice, choose Origin compatible version or single player stand alone version of ME3. Remember freedom of choice. Basicly it just means that DVD has few files what has two version, but most of them are same.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 janvier 2012 - 03:15 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

juplaa wrote...

Now here’s an intresting idea: http://issuu.com/wik...ective_contract

Would be to fun to see EA receive a taste of their own medicine shoved up their ### (*) : Users base can change this contract whenever it’s wants. The public gets access to EA’s privacy to make sure they’re not doing anything fraudulent(same reasoning they use to invade our privacy), ...

Doubt it will happen anytime soon … one can only hope =)

(*) hint: The censored word has the function as EA’s PR department

That would be interesting. 

Of course, it won't happen, because the last thing EA wants with their customers is an equitable relationship. 

[Killjoy Cutter]

Hardin4188 wrote...

I don't think Bioware can set the terms this time. I don't blame Bioware for this, I know it's EA forcing this on us. It's just another sign that EA is taking more and more control like they did with the real Origin, Westwood, Bullfrog, and even Maxis. Soon Bioware will be just a name at this rate.

Bioware is just a name already.

[Hardin4188]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Hardin4188 wrote...

I don't think Bioware can set the terms this time. I don't blame Bioware for this, I know it's EA forcing this on us. It's just another sign that EA is taking more and more control like they did with the real Origin, Westwood, Bullfrog, and even Maxis. Soon Bioware will be just a name at this rate.

Bioware is just a name already.

Now that I think about it you may be right. I remember now that "Bioware" is making a new Command and Conquer game.

[TheRealJayDee]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Origin is literally useless. It does nothing for me, and I gain nothing for the trouble and sacrifices required in installing and running it. 

This. There is NOTHING I gain by using Origin. It's just ridiculous.

Ottemis wrote...

And yet again, you miss the point. Fine, knock yourselves out. Infantile bull****.

Relax?!  

[Killjoy Cutter]

Lumikki wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Lumikki wrote...


3. How to fix that Origin client would be free choice for retail versions.

This is also difficult, but also possible. Problem could be that Origin client may have design to have central DRM control system. This means that there is two ways to solve this. Seperate central DRM from Origin, want is not so easy, because there is allready softwares in sales. Other possibility is just build retail ME3 version without Origin and it's own DRM check. That's little better and maybe easyer choise. You would need some installer in DVD where to choose which version to install. (With Origin or without)

Or they could go with the D"R"M that worked as well as any other -- just a CD check for the retail hardcopy.

Actually, they can't because now customers can also have Origin client. You have to count possibility that someone actually buyes ME3 from retail even if they use Origin client. So, in DVD there has to be choice, choose Origin compatible version or single player stand alone version of ME3. Remember freedom of choice. Basicly it just means that DVD has few files what has two version, but most of them are same.

Then the Origin versions can use Origin.

And they can leave those of us who don't want to be part of their gaming/social/datamining cloudnet alone to buy, install, and play the game in peace.

[Jonathan Robinson]

All of you have lost me, what has EA and Origin done? I would like to understand because I purchased a Mass Effect 3 copy from Origin so I could get the pre-order bonus. I can't find where this link began so I don't know what started this conversation.

[Lumikki]

Jonathan Robinson wrote...

All of you have lost me, what has EA and Origin done? I would like to understand because I purchased a Mass Effect 3 copy from Origin so I could get the pre-order bonus. I can't find where this link began so I don't know what started this conversation.

Done?

Not much, just some people aren't yet ready to use Origin client like digital distribution softwares, they just don't like them. How ever, Company EA gave a choice to use Origin client or don't play ME3. That's little issue for few customers. What means that even retail copies of ME3 can't be played without Origin client. Then there is little issue about Origin clients indrusion of players computer privacy without customers permissions. Then there is people who allready have Steam as digital distribution software and don't want to use two digital distribution softwares, but keep all games in one place.

EA denyed all these options from they customers and sayed, use Origin or don't play our games.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 janvier 2012 - 03:40 .

[Hardin4188]

Jonathan Robinson wrote...

All of you have lost me, what has EA and Origin done? I would like to understand because I purchased a Mass Effect 3 copy from Origin so I could get the pre-order bonus. I can't find where this link began so I don't know what started this conversation.

Since you asked I will tell you my reasons for not approving of Origin. First of all they shutdown the real Origin years ago and it's insulting that they are using it's name again. Second I use steam for nearly all of my games now and was really excited when EA was on board with steam. But now EA is no longer putting their games on steam and even removed a few like DA 2. EA has a long history of bullying their developrs and I am bothered by it.

[SpringMan]

Yeah, like i said earlier: Bioware is a name that gets tossed around as long as it has a good ring to it, then it'll just fade away like the other great studios (like the one that made the original C&C for example). It's sad, but it was obvious it'll end like that some day when EA sunk their claws into them.
Oh well, maybe in ten years or so we'll have an updated client software called Bioware, and fans are supposed to lose themself in sweet nostalgia like they probably thought it would be with Origin now.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Jonathan Robinson wrote...

All of you have lost me, what has EA and Origin done? I would like to understand because I purchased a Mass Effect 3 copy from Origin so I could get the pre-order bonus. I can't find where this link began so I don't know what started this conversation.

Origin has shown spyware-like behavior in the past, and EA has left themselves a clause in the EULA to have Origin go back to that behavior any time they want.

The EULA states that EA can share your information with third parties, or did, and they left themselves a clause in the EULA to go back to that any time they want. 

Even those of us who buy a physical copy of the game and want nothing to do with their social networking, cloud nonsense, save management, etc, are being forced to make the choice between installing the bloated useless malware that is Origin, or not playing ME3 at all.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 24 janvier 2012 - 03:40 .

[Jonathan Robinson]

What? Whats Origin client digital distribution software, when I purchased Mass Effect 3 it was my first time using Origin so I really have know idea what you are talking about. I would appreciate it if you could help me understand what you mean. I play my Mass Effect games on an xbox 360, would that explain why this does not make sense to me.

[Jonathan Robinson]

I see.

[Lumikki]

Jonathan Robinson wrote...

What? Whats Origin client digital distribution software, when I purchased Mass Effect 3 it was my first time using Origin so I really have know idea what you are talking about. I would appreciate it if you could help me understand what you mean. I play my Mass Effect games on an xbox 360, would that explain why this does not make sense to me.

You buyed it from Origin shop.

Origin client is PC connected software what has nothing to do with consoles. All this talk is PC issues, not console.

Modifié par Lumikki, 24 janvier 2012 - 03:47 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Here's a start:

http://en.wikipedia....nal_information

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 24 janvier 2012 - 03:47 .

[wolfsite]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Jonathan Robinson wrote...

All of you have lost me, what has EA and Origin done? I would like to understand because I purchased a Mass Effect 3 copy from Origin so I could get the pre-order bonus. I can't find where this link began so I don't know what started this conversation.

Origin has shown spyware-like behavior in the past, and EA has left themselves a clause in the EULA to have Origin go back to that behavior any time they want.

The EULA states that EA can share your information with third parties, or did, and they left themselves a clause in the EULA to go back to that any time they want. 

Even those of us who buy a physical copy of the game and want nothing to do with their social networking, cloud nonsense, save management, etc, are being forced to make the choice between installing the bloated useless malware that is Origin, or not playing ME3 at all.

Killjoy please stop making things up to favour your side of the arguement.


Excerpt from EULA:
-------------------------------

EA knows that you care how information about you is collected,
used and shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully and
sensibly.  Information
about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA would
never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it
ever use spyware or install spyware on users’ machines.  We and agents acting
on our behalf do not share information that personally identifies you without
your consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or
to enforce EA’s legal rights.

-------------------------------------

This section pretty much contradicts over half of your statement.  If you are going to post stuff pleae provide evidence to support what you say or else it just comes off completely wrong and damaging to your side of this debate.

Edit: Also Wiki is not a good place to look for reference material since it can be edited by just about anyone.

Modifié par wolfsite, 24 janvier 2012 - 03:52 .

[Lumikki]

Read little more about the EULA , there is section where it tells what kind of data Origin client does collect.