3659 réponses à ce sujet

[MingWolf]

Sadly, true

[Gatt9]

Vaeliorin wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

wolfsite wrote...
If you look on the horizon more and more digital clients and systems are coming with some publishers discontinuing hard copy games all together.  We have other clients like Desura, GFWL which is getting a total overhaul come Windows 8.  Rumours of Ubi-soft wishing to venture into digital distribution, GameStop pulling all retail outlets from the UK and even Ireland.

Hell, in the really long term I'll bet client-side games go away altogether. Eventually the whole game will just sit on a server somewhere and you'll play it over broadband.

And that's when I stop gaming.

If all software goes that way and we're back to dumb terminals, then I'm back to pen, paper, and the USPS.

If they ever do away with physical copies of games, I'm likely done buying games.  I've picked up some things on Steam for ridiculously low sale prices, but any game that I'm buying at release, I want a hard copy.

One of two things will happen in the next couple of years.

1.  The Government enacts and enforces legislation outlawing software piracy.

2.  Games and Movies become streamed.

There's no other alternative.  The piracy numbers are so high that companies cannot ignore it,  so if the government won't protect their products,  they will.  I'm sure someone's going to try and claim the numbers don't mean anything so I'll relate a story.

On the day of release,  Demigod's servers were completely crushed,  they had ample space for the paying customers (18,000 peak concurrent).  What they hadn't expected was over 100,000 pirated copies being played on day 1.

http://kotaku.com/52...pirates-[update]

5 pirates to every 1 legitimate copy being played on Day 1.  The people who legitimately bought copies,  could not play it,  because of the people who didn't.  This is why one of those two things will happen in the next few years.

[wolfsite]

AlanC9 wrote...

wolfsite wrote...
If you look on the horizon more and more digital clients and systems are coming with some publishers discontinuing hard copy games all together.  We have other clients like Desura, GFWL which is getting a total overhaul come Windows 8.  Rumours of Ubi-soft wishing to venture into digital distribution, GameStop pulling all retail outlets from the UK and even Ireland.

Hell, in the really long term I'll bet client-side games go away altogether. Eventually the whole game will just sit on a server somewhere and you'll play it over broadband.

Please don't give them ideas..... *Remembers OnLive*   Ah hell...

[DRUNK_CANADIAN]

dmex wrote...

DRUNK_CANADIAN wrote...

Sorry to ask because its been asked 100 times, but will Mass Effect 3 run through the Origin client itself (as in running in Origin offline mode?)  or can it run "independently" but still require Origin installed?

Thanks.

All games (after initial activation, if the game requires activation) should function when Origin is in offline mode, if they don't I would consider that a bug with the game and/or Origin's offline mode, as to if it can "run "independently" but still require Origin installed" is entirely BioWare's choice as to how they deploy ME3.

So basically nobody knows at this point, or is unwilling to say, well fair enough, they said Origin connection wouldn't be required, and 1 time activation so I'm assuming its one of the two options, although you state it is Bioware's choice, therefore if they don't offer the product in that manner I know who to shake my fist at

[ItsFreakinJesus]

The day a game no longer sits on my system, be it my computer, phone, or console, is the day I quit gaming. I hate the cloud with a passion.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Gatt9 wrote...

One of two things will happen in the next couple of years.

1.  The Government enacts and enforces legislation outlawing software piracy.

2.  Games and Movies become streamed.

There's no other alternative.  The piracy numbers are so high that companies cannot ignore it,  so if the government won't protect their products,  they will.  I'm sure someone's going to try and claim the numbers don't mean anything so I'll relate a story.

On the day of release,  Demigod's servers were completely crushed,  they had ample space for the paying customers (18,000 peak concurrent).  What they hadn't expected was over 100,000 pirated copies being played on day 1.

http://kotaku.com/52...pirates-[update]

5 pirates to every 1 legitimate copy being played on Day 1.  The people who legitimately bought copies,  could not play it,  because of the people who didn't.  This is why one of those two things will happen in the next few years.

Software (raiding) is already illegal on several levels, and it doesn't stop the (raiders).

There's already DRM, and it doesn't stop the (raiders).

What makes anyone think that anything will stop the (raiders)? 

Those of us who actually pay will just keep suffering under the useless attempts to stop it.

Anything that leaves the server is (raider)-susceptible, even if it's streamed.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 26 janvier 2012 - 01:54 .

[MingWolf]

Don't forget about EA's Spore, which became one of the most pirated games in 2008 (I think is the yr), because of DRM.

At some point, a line should be drawn, and they shouldn't go all paranoid about it. Going beyond CD-keys is a little bit over-the-top. Making a good quality game that is reasonably priced also helps.

With Demigod, I doubt it is so simple as: "oh, it's being pirated because we have no DRM protection." Pretty much every major title that does have DRM are pirated anyways. So what's the deal? I legitimately bought the boxed copy of Skyrim; I have to deal with steam running everytime I want to play, and the only benefit I get out of it is a nifty map that came in the box.  Somewhere out there, the sailors of the seas are playing it just fine without the inconveniences I experience.  Consider things like the quality of the game, the price, how it compares to other games, it's accessibility, etc. CDPR sold a version of the Witcher 2 that is DRM free too, and while I don't know the stats, I doubt they had much trouble selling their product. Sure, they probably have their own piracy issues, but your never going to bar it out entirely.

Modifié par MingWolf, 26 janvier 2012 - 02:05 .

[PSUHammer]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

It's not like current DLC delivery isn't tedious! At least if they pushed that stuff through steam I wouldn't have to download 30 seperate exe files if I reinstall the game.

I like the current system -- I get to download and save a file.  I still have the file if I have to reinstall later, and I don't have to rely on a server being up or the content still being available on my account.

To each his own, I guess.  I find it tedious.  I haven't run across an issue in the few years I have had Steam that my DLC was inaccessible.  But, I understand people who would want to download all their stuff and maybe put it on a DVD to install offline.

[PSUHammer]

ItsFreakinJesus wrote...

The day a game no longer sits on my system, be it my computer, phone, or console, is the day I quit gaming. I hate the cloud with a passion.

It has it's benefits and cons, for sure.  I will never want to have all my data stored in the "cloud."  I like the idea of my own NAS share on my home network that is totally blocked off from the outside world.

[s17tabris]

MingWolf wrote...

Well said.

Speaking of digital distribution (or control of).  My internet went down half an hour this morning.  I tried to access a game from Steam (Skyrim), and the offline mode didn't work.  It simply quit the program no matter how much I tried booting it up.  Couldn't help but glower slightly considering that we are required to do something similar with ME3 and origin.  Patches or no, the control is irritating.  

I don't know how some people can actually support this.  It's like people supporting the recycling of maps in DA2.  What benefit does it actually give to the customer in respect to ME3?  What benefit is there?  It does more harm than good.  One has to consider the option of having it, and not having it.  It's hard to visualize any sensible customer supporting this.  I don't care what devices are in place to make the transition of using these extra clients easier.  It's better to not have them. 

Yep, it's really annoying when that happens.  From time to time my internet goes down or becomes really slow, sometimes for a couple of days.  I can't even put Steam on offline mode because I can't access the controls when it's trying to connect to the servers.  I grudgingly tolerate these clients but if I'm given the option of not using them, I would definitely choose that option.  I miss the good old days when you just buy the game, install then play.  Now, you have to jump through a lot of hoops before being able to play a single-player game that you bought from a physical store.

[TheRealJayDee]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
Hell, in the really long term I'll bet client-side games go away altogether. Eventually the whole game will just sit on a server somewhere and you'll play it over broadband.

And that's when I stop gaming.

Seriously, more time for other things. A little sad, but all in all not too bad.

[United_Strafes]

Yawn, gotta remember to take some time out on March 7th to come in and laugh at the crusaders that are all playing and talking about the game despite the agggrroooooooo, ZOMG I'll never have Origin!

It'll be a nice little chuckle during a breakfast break before hopping back in game.

[Killjoy Cutter]

United_Strafes wrote...

Yawn, gotta remember to take some time out on March 7th to come in and laugh at the crusaders that are all playing and talking about the game despite the agggrroooooooo, ZOMG I'll never have Origin!

It'll be a nice little chuckle during a breakfast break before hopping back in game.

Troll much, kid?

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 26 janvier 2012 - 03:29 .

[CenturyCrow]

Gatt9 wrote...
One of two things will happen in the next couple of years.

1.  The Government enacts and enforces legislation outlawing software piracy.
2.  Games and Movies become streamed.

There's no other alternative.  The piracy numbers are so high that companies cannot ignore it,  so if the government won't protect their products,  they will.  I'm sure someone's going to try and claim the numbers don't mean anything so I'll relate a story.

On the day of release,  Demigod's servers were completely crushed,  they had ample space for the paying customers (18,000 peak concurrent).  What they hadn't expected was over 100,000 pirated copies being played on day 1.... /cut

Most governments already have and enforce legislation with copyright issues for all forms of media.

While 'piracy' is unethical, so are some of the EULAs, TOS and Privacy Policies.

A lot of the so called high numbers pirated copies are touted by the industry are estimates. Easy to measure how many items were manufactured; easy to measure how many packages were sold; how do you count how many digital copies are sitting on a digital shelf?

Agreed that theft and illegal copying adds to the cost of many products. But that was true before computers existed;  digital media is just a different media...

I had hoped that the consoles would resolve not only the piracy problems with software but also the cheating; it did for a little while. Honesty and integrity is something you can choose for yourself but not anyone else. How do you make an honest person? an executive with integrity, etc? I wish there was a simple solution to it, but what we end up with is people attempting to compensate or overcompensate for it with laws, DRM etc.

[sreaction]

About pirating, I wonder how many of the people who pirate games are actually probable customers? Seems to me either a customer is or is not. I truly believe a good number those who pirate games aren't even potential customers. If there is truth to that thought it could be argued the gaming companies aren't losing as much money as they claim they are.

Some time ago there was a statistics geek in an EA board meeting pointing out that X amount of people are pirating their game and there losing Y amount of dollars, followed by gasps of outrage concerning the lost revenue. The mythical pirate strikes again.

Also, its conceivable that corporate gaming publisher are using the "pirate" issue to further monopolize their stranglehold on the gaming industry.

Modifié par sreaction, 26 janvier 2012 - 04:27 .

[Stanley Woo]

And let's stop with the discussion of software piracy, please. Thank you.

[AlanC9]

arr0whead wrote...

Yep, it's really annoying when that happens.  From time to time my internet goes down or becomes really slow, sometimes for a couple of days.  I can't even put Steam on offline mode because I can't access the controls when it's trying to connect to the servers.  

I sometimes wonder what super genius decided that Steam needed to go online in order to be taken offline.

Edit: Maybe this one?

Modifié par AlanC9, 26 janvier 2012 - 04:42 .

[jeweledleah]

AlanC9 wrote...

arr0whead wrote...

Yep, it's really annoying when that happens.  From time to time my internet goes down or becomes really slow, sometimes for a couple of days.  I can't even put Steam on offline mode because I can't access the controls when it's trying to connect to the servers.  

I sometimes wonder what super genius decided that Steam needed to go online in order to be taken offline.

heh.  I've been able to login in offline mode without having to go online first. 

[United_Strafes]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

United_Strafes wrote...

Yawn, gotta remember to take some time out on March 7th to come in and laugh at the crusaders that are all playing and talking about the game despite the agggrroooooooo, ZOMG I'll never have Origin!

It'll be a nice little chuckle during a breakfast break before hopping back in game.

Troll much, kid?

Came into a thread to say that? Don't have a good grasp on what a troll is do ya, cause you're the definition big guy!

[Killjoy Cutter]

Stanley Woo wrote...

And let's stop with the discussion of software piracy, please. Thank you.

No one's advocating it that I've noticed.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 26 janvier 2012 - 04:58 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

United_Strafes wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

United_Strafes wrote...

Yawn, gotta remember to take some time out on March 7th to come in and laugh at the crusaders that are all playing and talking about the game despite the agggrroooooooo, ZOMG I'll never have Origin!

It'll be a nice little chuckle during a breakfast break before hopping back in game.

Troll much, kid?

Came into a thread to say that? Don't have a good grasp on what a troll is do ya, cause you're the definition big guy!

Didn't even bother looking at the rest of the current page before posting that, I see. 

Troll.

[sreaction]

Stanley Woo wrote...

And let's stop with the discussion of software piracy, please. Thank you.

Maybe we should lock down the entire thread since Origin, DRM, EULA, ToS discussion is directly related or at the least a reaction to issue of pirating.

Modifié par sreaction, 26 janvier 2012 - 05:25 .

[Tony_Knightcrawler]

Chris Priestly wrote...

Emoking wrote...

Is there a customer complaints email for EA?

Yes, if you wish to complain to EA, you can reach them here.

I just did, Chris. Although logging in from your link doesn't seem to work. Another EA failure (not yours, the website designers'). Here is what I wrote:

It is no secret that Origin is distrusted by the majority of PC gamers that know about it. The fact that it sends out data of whatever the client wants to search, even before you agree to the EULA. The fact that even if someone agrees to the EULA, it is against the law in some countries. The fact that EA changes their EULA on a whim, assumes agreement on the part of all clients, and will terminate services for a customer if they ever disagree with the EULA at any point, regardless of when the games they are playing were made. It's also a fact that disuse will remove all licenses an individual has to play Origin games. And really, these are just the tip of the iceberg. These are not one-off cases, they're indicative of a trend of customer abuse in EA. What is to trust here? Oh, and this is all forgetting the fact that Origin is a poorly made program/service (launching games through an external internet browser in BF3?!).

I have purchased many EA games. I'm sure you can see that by accessing my profile, and there are at least some fairly recent EA games that I have purchased which cannot be added (Theme Park for DS, for instance - in fact, I wrote an extensive FAQ on GameFAQs for that game). I purchase all of my games brand new, and the vast majority at launch. I'm sure you can access my BioWare Social account to see how much DLC I have purchased. And yet, I've had to put up with abusive DRM from EA for years. Spore's limited activations. Dragon Age's requirement to have a background program running (at startup, no less) to authenticate any DRM. Dragon Age series' and Mass Effect 2's denial of DLC if it cannot connect with a server. Crysis accusing me of piracy once I've applied the 1.3 patch or beyond. Mirror's Edge simply crashing by overheating my old video card (top of the line when the game came out) after a few minutes (that *could* count as a form of DRM, right?). EA has a horrible DRM track record for me, usually centered around DRM.

Frankly, as a customer, I'm everything you could want. As a company, to me you are barely worth the trouble. And that will change for the worse very shortly. I'm about to purchase my final EA product with the release of Mass Effect 3. The requirement for the above-described horrible and intrusive Origin means I will have to build a new PC fresh, to isolate Origin there where it can't spy on any personal information, while still retaining functionality. This means that it is likely I'll have to miss out on the bonuses from playing the Mass Effect 3 demo, because it's optimistic to say I'll be able to afford a new PC by the game's release.

The fact is that Origin provides no benefit to the customer, and even if it did, there is no benefit great enough to make up for the abusive relationship EA shares with PC gamers and the loss of their right to freely pay their purchased games on their own terms. The idea of online activations is flawed and restrictive, because it relies on the publishers' whim to keep their servers up, and the false pretense that the internet will be roughly the same at any point in the future. As if that wasn't bad enough, EA keeps piling on more ways to worsen PC gamers' experiences year after year. Mass Effect 3 is the straw that breaks the camel's back. I hope you enjoy your last game sale to this PC gamer among many others, not counting those that will refuse to even buy ME3.

PC gamers are a small portion of the market, but we more than just a random 2%. We're knowledgeable and vocal. We support the companies we like and deride those we don't. We show off games like nobody else can - shoddy cell phone camera footage of a video game will never convince someone to buy a game. Almost anyone with the equipment and know-how to use a video capture card to record console video footage will be themselves be a PC gamer, and rather capture that footage with FRAPS. Thus, *we* more than any other group are the ones making entertaining viral videos of your games. Almost none of us purchase games used, and when you sell to us you don't have to pay any console manufacturing licensing fee. Put these all together and you'll see that PC gamers are much more than just some random 2%, and I am not alone in my judgement of Origin.

You might tell me that the complaints I have listed for Origin are no longer accurate, to which I would respond that EA has already demonstrated they're willing to pull out the rug on gamers and change EULA and DRM after the fact.

PS: If the rumors that EA is courting Nintendo for their online service are true, and that the WiiU will feature Origin, the WiiU will be the first Nintendo console (out of their entire lineup, sans Virtual Boy) I refused to purchase.

PPS: tl;dr The decision to require Origin for physical copies of Mass Effect 3 (yes, I'm going to buy a REAL hard copy) as well as not offering any other digital download alternatives to Steam means will have a direct negative impact on your bottom line for years to come.

Yes, in that last line I meant to write "alternatives ot Origin." And there were 1 or 2 other grammar mistakes.

Modifié par Tony_Knightcrawler, 26 janvier 2012 - 08:09 .

[Rudy Lis]

arr0whead wrote...

MingWolf wrote...

Well said.

Speaking of digital distribution (or control of).  My internet went down half an hour this morning.  I tried to access a game from Steam (Skyrim), and the offline mode didn't work.  It simply quit the program no matter how much I tried booting it up.  Couldn't help but glower slightly considering that we are required to do something similar with ME3 and origin.  Patches or no, the control is irritating.  

I don't know how some people can actually support this.  It's like people supporting the recycling of maps in DA2.  What benefit does it actually give to the customer in respect to ME3?  What benefit is there?  It does more harm than good.  One has to consider the option of having it, and not having it.  It's hard to visualize any sensible customer supporting this.  I don't care what devices are in place to make the transition of using these extra clients easier.  It's better to not have them. 

Yep, it's really annoying when that happens.  From time to time my internet goes down or becomes really slow, sometimes for a couple of days.  I can't even put Steam on offline mode because I can't access the controls when it's trying to connect to the servers.  I grudgingly tolerate these clients but if I'm given the option of not using them, I would definitely choose that option.  I miss the good old days when you just buy the game, install then play.  Now, you have to jump through a lot of hoops before being able to play a single-player game that you bought from a physical store.

If you can't stop the violence...
Well, I sent my Steam into on-line walk only when I'm ready to forget about gaming for long-long time. Just in case ISP will have problems, or some excavator will cut the cable, or something.
I don't like it, I don't support it, but I can't do nothing.

MingWolf wrote...

Don't forget about EA's Spore, which became one of the most pirated games in 2008 (I think is the yr), because of DRM.

At some point, a line should be drawn, and they shouldn't go all paranoid about it. Going beyond CD-keys is a little bit over-the-top. Making a good quality game that is reasonably priced also helps.

With Demigod, I doubt it is so simple as: "oh, it's being pirated because we have no DRM protection." Pretty much every major title that does have DRM are pirated anyways. So what's the deal? I legitimately bought the boxed copy of Skyrim; I have to deal with steam running everytime I want to play, and the only benefit I get out of it is a nifty map that came in the box. Somewhere out there, the sailors of the seas are playing it just fine without the inconveniences I experience. Consider things like the quality of the game, the price, how it compares to other games, it's accessibility, etc. CDPR sold a version of the Witcher 2 that is DRM free too, and while I don't know the stats, I doubt they had much trouble selling their product. Sure, they probably have their own piracy issues, but your never going to bar it out entirely.

All this situation with "blood magic" (since good man Stanley asked us not discuss you know what), EULA, DRM and all other crap remind me situations with weapons. Did weapon restriction for law-abiding population removed guns from criminal hands? Nope.
Same with DRM and other stuff. There are always will be people who will not pay for goods. Some because good are too damn expensive. Balance "pain-gain" broken. Make games cheaper and some of those, who turned to blood magic, will return and actually buy things. Make these purchases easy, don't create excessive barriers.
Some people actually turn to blood magic just to appraise product (because of lack of demo-version) - is it worth buying or not. And it is barely their fault if it's not worth buying. If you create "disposable" game or movie your customers can't even remember after outro and end credits, how it's their fault? No wonder there are no demo for such games, isn't it?
Why I, legal owner, had to see those un-ESC-apeable "boo, piracy is baaaad!" things every damn time I want to install and play game or watch movie? I know two persons, who buy legal games and movies, but they keep them sealed in their closed and they turned to blood-magic copies. Why? Because they tired seeing all that crap.
Why law-abiding folk is always on receiving end of this "fight something illegal" proverbial stick?
"Well, if crime fighters fight crime and fire fighters fight fire, what do freedom fighters fight? They never mention that part to us, do they?"
If you fight piracy (sorry, Stanley), why you fight us, legal, law-abiding owners? Just because you know we are law-abiding and we follow your laws and because you know where we are and where to find us, so you can show to someone that you "really fight the piracy"? C'mon, wipe your goggles, it doesn't work.

Of course, there are always will be those who won't buy a thing. But why you hold us responsible, huh?

Modifié par Rudy Lis, 26 janvier 2012 - 08:31 .

[hangmans tree]

Rudzielec is right, well said.
Its the same thing when folks go to church and get scolded for not going to church, or hearing the endless mantra from teachers 'you're skipping school!' - like **** I do, I'm sitting right here am I not?