3659 réponses à ce sujet

[dmex]

 

Gatt9 wrote...You misunderstood his point 3.  He was refering to the mandatory inclusion of Multiplayer in ME3 and reportedly DA3,  despite the fact that it makes no sense to add Multiplayer to a Single Player narrative driven game.
Especially since increasingly the evidence points to the multiplayer being implemented in such a way as to be nigh-unavoidable.
Hence,  his point is that this is a major problem for a sizeable number of people,  and Origin is a key component of this strategy.  It's not a digital delivery service so much as it being a multi-faceted DRM effort,  so pervasive that it's affecting the design of games where it shouldn't.
Contrast this to Steam.  Multiplayer is not a mandatory feature for Steam's games,  but EA games it apparently is.

Finding everything under the sun to bash Origin is not contributing to the discussion, Multiplayer is not mandatory and a publisher's decision to build multiplayer into their game is entirely their choice.

devSin wrote...

dmex wrote...
3) Online is only mandatory for the initital activation of the game on your Origin account, your account is also not deleted and you don't lose your games after a period of time (current expiration of games on Origin is 2999-01-01 12:00:00 GMT)

Doesn't this just say that Origin doesn't actually solve anything?
Unless I keep Mass Effect 3 installed on the same disk in the same computer for the next ten years, I'm still SOL when I want to play it because I have to install it but can then no longer activate it.
So if nothing changes in the next 10 years, sure, you can run Origin in offline mode to play!
In the real world, you no longer have the ability to use your purchased product.
Or are you simply saying that the Origin server A) is used for both activation and login and has relatively less chance of going offline in 2020 than whatever other server is used to activate any current EA game?

Yes, newer EA titles will all be using the same Origin server and it won't be shutdown when one game reaches EOL.

Vendrium wrote...
The way I see it - lots of people are going to resort to illegal means to play the game - and it's sad for BioWare really.

It is sad, despite the explanations I've given about how Origin solves many issues for customers and better at managing your games, some people just don't like anything new or are too paranoid and believe the FUD.

I can't help but facepalm at the replies from some users.

Modifié par dmex, 27 janvier 2012 - 07:32 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

It's not FUD when we watched it happen.

Origin does nothing for me, personally. Nothing. Just as with the nagging "library" feature on some media playing software, having software try to "help" with "managing games" is just a nuisance. I buy physical copies of games, I don't need a DD client.

There's nothing about consolidating the games that actually need server-side support on a single server (bank) that necessitates Origin.

[fchopin]

dmex wrote...
I can't help but facepalm at the replies from some users.

You can facepalm as much as you want, i will still not install origin on my computer if it runs in the background while i play single play games.
 
You need to find a better reason why i have to install unwanted software.

[Dragoonlordz]

Vendrium wrote...

The way I see it - lots of people are going to resort to illegal means to play the game - and it's sad for BioWare really.

It's not lots of people really who may use illegal means due to Origin, it's a 'few' who will due to Origin but most or this 'lots' were the kind who was going to do so regardless. That Moo group is only 150ish members and I think around 120-130 will still buy ME3 in the group itself, have about a dozen people constantly moaning on about it in here who may stick to their guns. Most major gaming sites are not spending much if any time anymore talking about Origin other than talking about latest story regarding Origin has more developers lined up to join their service; which is why most articles being linked in here are old ones whether months or years old. You have to literally go into the back alleys of the internet (forums) to find people even talking about it negatively on and on and even then is not vast amounts of people doing so then either.

ME3 has the highest by far pre-orders of any game (Bioware) I think has ever had, I think ME3 has maybe even surpassed SWToR pre-orders and thats using Star Wars franchise which is bigger than ME by a long way..

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 27 janvier 2012 - 08:00 .

[Dragoonlordz]

fchopin wrote...

dmex wrote...
I can't help but facepalm at the replies from some users.

You can facepalm as much as you want, i will still not install origin on my computer if it runs in the background while i play single play games.
 
You need to find a better reason why i have to install unwanted software.

He doesn't need to do anything your one or others (dozen to few hundred maybe few thousand at most) lost sales won't bring EA into ruin and certainly is not in any way large enough amount of people backing to force removal of EA's client with EA's published and owned games. Especially when ME3 has from what I have seen pushed over the million mark already in pre-orders. What he did/does is out of good will in answering questions here. The gun your holding to his head (make no mistake is what your trying to do and coming across as such) is firing blanks and will not stop anything.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 27 janvier 2012 - 08:05 .

[Lux]

MingWolf wrote...

I'm a grown adult with priorities that makes gaming pretty secondary compared to the greater scheme of things. 

I used to be a grown adult like you, then I took a SWTOR in the knee. Curse you, BioWare!

MingWolf wrote...

Unlike a few fans on this thread who blatently defend this and call the rest of us cry babies, I believe it is still helpful voicing an opinion, because without opinion, nothing will ever change

In a way, things did change. They're no longer using SecuROM. With Origin, they'll be able to further improve a DRM of their own making. It's important to voice your opinion, or else how would they know what to change?

[Zargon VII]

dmex wrote...
Finding everything under the sun to bash Origin is not contributing to the discussion, Multiplayer is not mandatory and a publisher's decision to build multiplayer into their game is entirely their choice.

I have to disagree with you on this, I have read in several reputable sites that in the last couple of years EA has started to insist that every game have a multiplayer component.   My tin foil hat says that it is so EA has more control over your gaming experience and that this way they can also charge an online pass to more used customers.  I would imagine single player games are probably sold more often than multiplayer games is what led to their thinking here.

Also dmex, I would like you to address probably the biggest issue that all of us have with Origin, namely the lack of an opt out for data collection.  If I missed it I apologize as this thread is rather long but I don't remember seeing you comment on this.

[dmex]

 

Killjoy Cutter wrote...
It's not FUD when we watched it happen.

When you disregard something you 'watched' us address, fix or solve and carry on complaining about that something... That's FUD.

Killjoy Cutter wrote...There's nothing about consolidating the games that actually need server-side support on a single server (bank) that necessitates Origin.

These things are hand-in-hand, you consolidate the servers, you have to consolidate the code.

Killjoy Cutter wrote...Origin does nothing for me, personally. Nothing. Just as with the nagging "library" feature on some media playing software, having software try to "help" with "managing games" is just a nuisance. I buy physical copies of games, I don't need a DD client.  

fchopin wrote...

dmex wrote...I can't help but facepalm at the replies from some users.

You can facepalm as much as you want, i will still not install origin on my computer if it runs in the background while i play single play games. You need to find a better reason why i have to install unwanted software.

For both of these posts, Firstly, don't use the features you don't want to use, nobody is forcing you to use chat if you don't want to use chat. Secondly, how should we verify your rights to play the game, even offline?

[Dragoonlordz]

Zargon VII wrote...

dmex wrote...
Finding everything under the sun to bash Origin is not contributing to the discussion, Multiplayer is not mandatory and a publisher's decision to build multiplayer into their game is entirely their choice.

I have to disagree with you on this, I have read in several reputable sites that in the last couple of years EA has started to insist that every game have a multiplayer component.   My tin foil hat says that it is so EA has more control over your gaming experience and that this way they can also charge an online pass to more used customers.  I would imagine single player games are probably sold more often than multiplayer games is what led to their thinking here.

Also dmex, I would like you to address probably the biggest issue that all of us have with Origin, namely the lack of an opt out for data collection.  If I missed it I apologize as this thread is rather long but I don't remember seeing you comment on this.

Actually I think it's the players faults for always wanting multiplayer in games, a view I do not share but I make no mistake in seeing everywhere I go people screaming out for multiplayer in single player franchises. In this area I think it's more EA giving them what most want while some of us like myself are not interested in MP ourselves.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 27 janvier 2012 - 08:07 .

[MingWolf]

[quote]Merkar wrote...

[quote]MingWolf wrote...

I'm a grown adult with priorities that makes gaming pretty secondary compared to the greater scheme of things. 
[/quote]

I used to be a grown adult like you, then I took a SWTOR in the knee. Curse you, BioWare!
[/quote]

Ouch.

[quote]Merkar wrote...
[quote]MingWolf wrote...

Unlike a few fans on this thread who blatently defend this and call the rest of us cry babies, I believe it is still helpful voicing an opinion, because without opinion, nothing will ever change
[/quote]

In a way, things did change. They're no longer using SecuROM. With Origin, they'll be able to further improve a DRM of their own making. It's important to voice your opinion, or else how would they know what to change?
[/quote]
[/quote]

Good riddence for SecuROM (though, the irony I suppose is that I never really had too much trouble with it).  Whether they can further improve a DRM of their making is really my debatable topic.  I've seen a lot of corporations make a lot of silly errors, and I would say that the recent five years contain enough examples to prove the ineffectiveness of DRM and how some people loathe being increasingly controlled (hence DRM, which is a form of control on the rights of usage by its very definition).

Modifié par MingWolf, 27 janvier 2012 - 08:14 .

[fchopin]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

fchopin wrote...

dmex wrote...
I can't help but facepalm at the replies from some users.

You can facepalm as much as you want, i will still not install origin on my computer if it runs in the background while i play single play games.
 
You need to find a better reason why i have to install unwanted software.

He doesn't need to do anything your one or others (dozen to few hundred maybe few thousand at most) lost sales won't bring EA into ruin and certainly is not in any way large enough amount of people backing to force removal of EA's client with EA's published and owned games. Especially when ME3 has from what I have seen pushed over the million mark already in pre-orders. What he did/does is out of good will in answering questions here. The gun your holding to his head (make no mistake is what your trying to do and coming across as such) is firing blanks and will not stop anything.

First you don't work for EA so you can not answer for them and no one is stopping you from installing anything you like on your computer.
 
You are under the impression that i am trying to hurt EA by not installing origin on my computer, that alone shows you have understood nothing and it's a waist of time speaking with you.

[Dragoonlordz]

fchopin wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

fchopin wrote...

dmex wrote...
I can't help but facepalm at the replies from some users.

You can facepalm as much as you want, i will still not install origin on my computer if it runs in the background while i play single play games.
 
You need to find a better reason why i have to install unwanted software.

He doesn't need to do anything your one or others (dozen to few hundred maybe few thousand at most) lost sales won't bring EA into ruin and certainly is not in any way large enough amount of people backing to force removal of EA's client with EA's published and owned games. Especially when ME3 has from what I have seen pushed over the million mark already in pre-orders. What he did/does is out of good will in answering questions here. The gun your holding to his head (make no mistake is what your trying to do and coming across as such) is firing blanks and will not stop anything.

First you don't work for EA so you can not answer for them and no one is stopping you from installing anything you like on your computer.
 
You are under the impression that i am trying to hurt EA by not installing origin on my computer, that alone shows you have understood nothing and it's a waist of time speaking with you.

Actually I am under the impression nothing he says or does will ever convince you to use Origin. Your using carrot and stick when you say "give me a reason", only you have no intention of ever giving him the carrot; not now and not ever unless they don't supply Origin as part of the ME3 package like some of the people in here are saying.. This is not going to happen so he's trying to grab a carrot he will never ever get.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 27 janvier 2012 - 08:19 .

[fchopin]

dmex wrote...
 how should we verify your rights to play the game, even offline?

All i am asking is after activation to be able to close origin while we play ME3 in single mode, i don't think that is a lot to ask for do you?

Modifié par fchopin, 27 janvier 2012 - 08:40 .

[eyesofastorm]

dmex wrote...

Secondly, how should we verify your rights to play the game, even offline?

That's just ridiculous.  How about by the $60 I paid for the game, the hard copy of the game itself, and the receipt that documented the transaction.  What you are talking about is punishing the paying customer so you can attempt (but fail) to catch those that don't pay.  

[Killjoy Cutter]

dmex wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

It's not FUD when we watched it happen.

When you disregard something you 'watched' us address, fix or solve and carry on complaining about that something... That's FUD.

A "fix" that can be undone at any moment, and that you reserve the right to undo at any moment. 

dmex wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...There's nothing about consolidating the games that actually need server-side support on a single server (bank) that necessitates Origin.

These things are hand-in-hand, you consolidate the servers, you have to consolidate the code.

Different programs can't contact the same server?  The code can't be consolidated without ramming an extra client down our throats? 

dmex wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...Origin does nothing for me, personally. Nothing. Just as with the nagging "library" feature on some media playing software, having software try to "help" with "managing games" is just a nuisance. I buy physical copies of games, I don't need a DD client.  

fchopin wrote...

dmex wrote...I can't help but facepalm at the replies from some users.

You can facepalm as much as you want, i will still not install origin on my computer if it runs in the background while i play single play games. You need to find a better reason why i have to install unwanted software.

For both of these posts, Firstly, don't use the features you don't want to use, nobody is forcing you to use chat if you don't want to use chat. Secondly, how should we verify your rights to play the game, even offline?

If Origin is anything like Steam, it's impossible to not use the "management" "feature", it's basically nagware. 

As for the verification, well, that's a whole different fish, sir.  As far as I'm concerned, you don't actually have any right to know that I bought the game and that I'm playing it, any more than a toaster maker has a right to know that I walked into a store, paid cash, and have a toaster they made in my kitchen.  The disk check should be more than enough. 

It's not as if Origin is ever going to stop a single person who didn't pay for an EA game from playing an EA game -- the history of DRM has proven this beyond any doubt. 

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 27 janvier 2012 - 08:23 .

[MingWolf]

Dragoonlordz wrote...
That Moo group is only 150ish members and I think around 120-130 will still buy ME3 in the group itself, have about a dozen people constantly moaning on about it in here who may stick to their guns.

I don't know what this group has done to you and why you are so valiantly defending Origin.  Also, the group has nothing to do with any perceived large-scale revolution, nor is it about moaning and crying.  I can't speak for anyone, but most of the members find having Origin mandatory to be less than acceptable.  I place a Moo banner on my sig because I believe that having it optional is better than otherwise having to submit and agree to everything a corporation wants me to have if I should purchase a software from them.  Other people do so for their own reasons.  Show a little respect and respect the view of others.  The world does not evolve because everyone agrees to everything all the time.

Modifié par MingWolf, 27 janvier 2012 - 08:45 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

fchopin wrote...

dmex wrote...

fchopin wrote...

dmex wrote...I can't help but facepalm at the replies from some users.

You can facepalm as much as you want, i will still not install origin on my computer if it runs in the background while i play single play games. You need to find a better reason why i have to install unwanted software.

For both of these posts, Firstly, don't use the features you don't want to use, nobody is forcing you to use chat if you don't want to use chat. Secondly, how should we verify your rights to play the game, even offline?

All we are asking is after activation to be able to close origin while we play ME3 in single mode, i don't think that is a lot to ask for do you?

I'm asking for not having to install Origin at all.

[Lux]

For anyone interested, here's the official FAQ on Origin.

[fchopin]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

I'm asking for not having to install Origin at all.

Ok, next time i will just use I instead of WE.

[Eurypterid]

dmex wrote...
Secondly, how should we verify your rights to play the game, even offline?

Just like every other product people buy, it's called a receipt. Other than the fact I've receieved a receipt for handing over money to buy a product, I personally don't feel companies have any call to keep asking me to prove I bought it. This is why for me, Origin (and Steam) vastly decreases my perceived value of any game. So I'll put up with having to repeatedly prove I own a game, but not for more than $5 for said game.

[Zargon VII]

dmex wrote...

Secondly, how should we verify your rights to play the game, even offline?

That is the crux of the DRM question and the simple answer is:  You can't.  Every DRM scheme so far has been cracked and will continue to be so, in fact Origin and Steam already have.  I think the answer is that EA needs to find a way to reward an official purchaser.  In the old days games came with ornate instruction books and cloth maps and Infocom games came with all sorts of cool collectible trinkets that would be incorporated into the game itself.   Yet you can't help but notice that companies at the forefront of DRM like EA and Ubi are now too cheap to even include manuals anymore.   I think companies need to realize that DRM schemes are an exercise in futility and should maybe try the carrot instead of the stick approach.  The stick doesn't work, it only gets used on paying customers who you should try to befriend and reward, not punish!

[Killjoy Cutter]

Eurypterid wrote...

dmex wrote...

Secondly, how should we verify your rights to play the game, even offline?

Just like every other product people buy, it's called a receipt. Other than the fact I've receieved a receipt for handing over money to buy a product, I personally don't feel companies have any call to keep asking me to prove I bought it. This is why for me, Origin (and Steam) vastly decreases my perceived value of any game. So I'll put up with having to repeatedly prove I own a game, but not for more than $5 for said game.

How far do you think the oft-exampled appliance companies would get, if they tried to claim the "right" to require you prove that you had actually purchased a toaster before the coils would heat up, every single morning as you made toast?  Or that they could show up and confiscate any toaster you didn't have a receipt for at any time? 

In the real world, there needs to be reasonable suspicion or other solidly actionable grounds before someone can be accused of theft and have the items taken away from them, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. 

Only in the fantasy world of software company HQs do they think it's reasonable to force people to prove that they didn't steal something over and over again. 

[Pkxm]

meanwhile the pirates get a hassle free experience while we, the paying customers, get a boot on the neck

[Dragoonlordz]

MingWolf wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...
That Moo group is only 150ish members and I think around 120-130 will still buy ME3 in the group itself, have about a dozen people constantly moaning on about it in here who may stick to their guns.

I don't know what this group has done to you are why you are so valiantly defending Origin.  Also, the group has nothing to do with any perceived large-scale revolution, nor is it about moaning and crying.  I can't speak for anyone, but most of the members find having Origin mandatory to be less than acceptable.  I place a Moo banner on my sig because I believe that having it optional is better than otherwise having to submit and agree to everything a corporation wants me to have if I should purchase a software from them.  Other people do so for their own reasons.  Show a little respect and respect the view of others.  The world does not evolve because everyone agrees to everything all the time.

I have nothing against the Moo group, some of my friends are in the Moo group. I'm not even bothering to defend Origin much but I am fine answering with regard to my experience with it, what I am doing is getting slightly annoyed at the fact if compiled every actual legitimate question that can be answered posed in this thread and last thread relating to Origin plus their answers it would only occupy about a dozen pages. We then have a few dozen people holding the entire rest of the thread (and last one) to ransom which sums up about 330+ pages from those few dozen people. 

When Dmex, Chris or Stanley offers any advice or answers they are falling on deaf ears so no matter what is said, what is answered it will never be good enough unless EA drops Origin (NOT going to happen) especially to people using such dubious tactics of "convince me this and that", pose question X or Y with zero chance any answer will change their mind in both cases. Like I said it's nothing more than carrot and stick but with no carrot actually on the end regardless of anything anyone says unless Origin is dropped from ME3.

It is not a productive discussion when nothing said will ever change their opinion unless what is said is ME3 will not come with Origin. Asking a question when you know before hand any reply will be met with "Nope not buying, nope not interested, nope still don't care, nope still don't trust" is not productive in any way, shape or from. It's more inline with child stamping his or her feet because they aren't getting their way, while an adult would try to find a compromise. Thats why I support Opt In/Opt Out in the client which is a compromise and not this temper tantrum of "no, no, no, no, no, no, no, trololo; not interested".

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 27 janvier 2012 - 08:54 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...

dmex wrote...

Secondly, how should we verify your rights to play the game, even offline?

Just like every other product people buy, it's called a receipt. Other than the fact I've receieved a receipt for handing over money to buy a product, I personally don't feel companies have any call to keep asking me to prove I bought it. This is why for me, Origin (and Steam) vastly decreases my perceived value of any game. So I'll put up with having to repeatedly prove I own a game, but not for more than $5 for said game.

How far do you think the oft-exampled appliance companies would get, if they tried to claim the "right" to require you prove that you had actually purchased a toaster before the coils would heat up, every single morning as you made toast?  Or that they could show up and confiscate any toaster you didn't have a receipt for at any time? 

In the real world, there needs to be reasonable suspicion or other solidly actionable grounds before someone can be accused of theft and have the items taken away from them, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. 

Only in the fantasy world of software company HQs do they think it's reasonable to force people to prove that they didn't steal something over and over again. 

They do require proof, when something goes wrong and has to go back to them for repair or replacement why do you think they always ask for that reciept. This is not much different in that they continue to offer services for products/titles and support providing you have that electronic version of a receipt (activation or DRM) in the case of games. Both require proof only one uses a different version to the other.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 27 janvier 2012 - 08:55 .