3659 réponses à ce sujet

[chance52]

Dragoonlordz wrote...


I have nothing against the Moo group, some of my friends are in the Moo group. I'm not even bothering to defend Origin much but I am fine answering with regard to my experience with it, what I am doing is getting slightly annoyed at the fact if compiled every actual legitimate question that can be answered posed in this thread and last thread relating to Origin plus their answers it would only occupy about a dozen pages. We then have a few dozen people holding the entire rest of the thread (and last one) to ransom which sums up about 330+ pages from those few dozen people. 

Dragoonlordz you are living in an especially transparent glass house for throwing this particular stone. 

Dragoonlordz wrote...
When Dmex, Chris or Stanley offers any advice or answers they are falling on deaf ears so no matter what is said, what is answered it will never be good enough unless EA drops Origin (NOT going to happen) especially to people using such dubious tactics of "convince me this and that", pose question X or Y with zero chance any answer will change their mind in both cases. Like I said it's nothing more than carrot and stick but with no carrot actually on the end regardless of anything anyone says unless Origin is dropped from ME3.

It is not a productive discussion when nothing said will ever change their opinion unless what is said is ME3 will not come with Origin. Asking a question when you know before hand any reply will be met with "Nope not buying, nope not interested, nope still don't care, nope still don't trust" is not productive in any way, shape or from. It's more inline with child stamping his or her feet because they aren't getting their way, while an adult would try to find a compromise. Thats why I support Opt In/Opt Out in the client which is a compromise and not this temper tantrum of "no, no, no, no, no, no, no, trololo; not interested".

Some people will never buy, that part I agree with you on but how many people have been happy with the information Dmex has been providing? Chris and Stanley have been moderators, editing out pirate talk and banning people for various reasons but largely providing no new answers, unless I missed a bunch of their answers in the middle of this thread which, granted, is possible.

Also if there was some way for us to opt-in to data collection (not just opt-out of ME3 gameplay feedback) most people, would be OK with the Origin requirement.  Maybe not like Origin, but at least be OK with it. This isn't an all or nothing thing for everyone where Origin has to be deleted from existence for all to be well again. The opt-in isn't even an unreasonable request and given Origin's very public perception as spyware an opt-in would go a long way towards mending the fence and moving on.  I seriously doubt EA or BioWare likes the 10 thousand responses to Origin on their message board and the numerous blogs denouncing it and would rather the attention be on the actual game and hyping it's features.

[Dragoonlordz]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Actually, the customers ARE the ones footing the bill. For everything.

You got what you paid for you did not pay for development of future products.

E.g. You bought ME2 you got ME2, the money spent in buying ME2 does not give you right to decide/dictate the future of ME3. You can leave feedback and state and opinion on what you would like but you did not pay for ME3 until it is released of which then you either buy then or don't and if do buy then; and only then did you pay for ME3.

And if we don't like the direction of ME3, we don't purchase it, and THEN the company is left paying for its development.  Ooops.

My initial comment stands (one which replied to). ME3 I think has over million pre-orders already, pretty sure they have nothing to worry about.

[AlanC9]

Forbidden wrote...

You encrypt chunks of the game with an encryption scheme that isn't mickey mouse, then e-mail a keyfile with the electronic reciept.  The electronic reciept becomes an electronic signature that ties back to the name and credit card of the person who bought it in the vendor's database.  The client's computer never connects to the internet, never contacts back to the publisher.  However, any copy of the game that appears on pirate sites can be tracked back to the purchser.  You then sue them into oblivion.  Do this a few times and people will be more careful with their copies.  Lawful paying customers are not hindered by nonsense. 

Interesting scheme. It does rather limit the ways you can let people pay for the game, though. No cash, no prepaid cards, nothing that can't be traced back to an individual user.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Actually, the customers ARE the ones footing the bill. For everything.

You got what you paid for you did not pay for development of future products.

E.g. You bought ME2 you got ME2, the money spent in buying ME2 does not give you right to decide/dictate the future of ME3. You can leave feedback and state and opinion on what you would like but you did not pay for ME3 until it is released of which then you either buy then or don't and if do buy then; and only then did you pay for ME3.

And if we don't like the direction of ME3, we don't purchase it, and THEN the company is left paying for its development.  Ooops.

My initial comment stands (one which replied to). ME3 I think has over million pre-orders already, pretty sure they have nothing to worry about.

I can't help it if people are ignorant about Origin, or value a game more than their rights.

[dmex]

Eurypterid wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

So you say your ok with activation/registering which is fine. I see it as if you wish to have any support or patches, updates or help with a product I do not think it is unfair for those who provide that support to make sure they are supporting someone who actually bought it and not stole it.

Look at it this way: I bought The Witcher 2 from GOG. I can install and play on any computer I own without ever having to access the internet. If I want patches, I need to grab them on-line from the Witcher 2 site, but I still don't need to register. GOG also provides the fully patched game later on once the patch cycle is near its end. In order to access that, I must be logged into my account on GOG's website to DL the game files. After that though, I'm free to install the game wherever I want, as many times as I want, with no restrictions. I don't have to phone home, don't have to activate, don't have any DRM to deal with. I don't need a separate client to prove I bought the game. That's the reason I paid full price for the game when it was released. Tthat's the reason I won't pay full price for a game that has restrictions.

Am I opposed to this type of thing (Origin, Steam)? Yes. However, I also realize this is the way things are going in our glorious digital future and it's not likely to change. I'll register my complaints when I can. I'll do what I can to oppose this type of thing. But in the end, I'll still accept it for a much reduced price. The bottom line is, money talks. And I'm letting mine talk with respect to what I'll pay for something that comes with restrictions and limitations.

*edit* Bolding.

Kudo's to Dragoonlordz for explaining the various reasons behind requiring the game verify your entitlements.

If you didn't pay for the game, you have no rights to the game, no rights to play the game, product support, our servers, our content or anything provided by the company... your Origin account acts as the electronic verification of ownership to grant these rights.

You also can't selectively decide when or how you're going to prove you own the game without handing the pirates the game itself and free access to our product support, our servers, our content...etc on a silver platter.

Imagine a scenario where there were 50,000 pirates to every one customer, all accessing support, our servers, our content...etc without buying the game to pay for these services... Realtime Worlds (makers of APB Reloaded) is a good example of what happens, servers get overloaded causing players to lag and dropout, product support gets delayed... ruining the gaming experience for paying customers and costing the company millions because people didn't want to pay $20 for a great game they loved.

Activation is a fact of life for almost all software these days, you can thank every last pirate for making this happen and making it worse. Dragoonlordz explained very well it's much better having something simple than mailing a receipt every time you want to download something or ask support about a problem and this is what Origin does, makes it simple while also not 'phoning home' or installing DRM. 

Modifié par dmex, 27 janvier 2012 - 09:56 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

AlanC9 wrote...

Forbidden wrote...

You encrypt chunks of the game with an encryption scheme that isn't mickey mouse, then e-mail a keyfile with the electronic reciept.  The electronic reciept becomes an electronic signature that ties back to the name and credit card of the person who bought it in the vendor's database.  The client's computer never connects to the internet, never contacts back to the publisher.  However, any copy of the game that appears on pirate sites can be tracked back to the purchser.  You then sue them into oblivion.  Do this a few times and people will be more careful with their copies.  Lawful paying customers are not hindered by nonsense. 

Interesting scheme. It does rather limit the ways you can let people pay for the game, though. No cash, no prepaid cards, nothing that can't be traced back to an individual user.

And it still amounts to the customer repeatedly having to prove that they paid for a product just to use that product.

[billy the squid]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Actually, the customers ARE the ones footing the bill. For everything.

You got what you paid for you did not pay for development of future products.

E.g. You bought ME2 you got ME2, the money spent in buying ME2 does not give you right to decide/dictate the future of ME3. You can leave feedback and state and opinion on what you would like but you did not pay for ME3 until it is released of which then you either buy then or don't and if do buy then; and only then did you pay for ME3.

And if we don't like the direction of ME3, we don't purchase it, and THEN the company is left paying for its development.  Ooops.

On a slight side note, Company finances don't work like that. Money for ME2 is not earmarked for development of ME3. They are allocated elsewhere and not kept as liquid cash soley for the next installment, it would be a waste of invesment opportunity.

Modifié par billy the squid, 27 janvier 2012 - 10:02 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

dmex wrote...

Kudo's to Dragoonlordz for explaining the various reasons behind requiring the game verify your entitlements.

If you didn't pay for the game, you have no rights to the game, no rights to play the game, product support, our servers, our content or anything provided by the company... your Origin account acts as the electronic verification of ownership to grant these rights.

You also can't selectively decide when or how you're going to prove you own the game without handing the pirates the game itself and free access to our product support, our servers, our content...etc on a silver platter.

Imagine a scenario where there were 50,000 pirates to every one customer, all accessing support, our servers, our content...etc without buying the game to pay for these services... Realtime Worlds (makers of APB Reloaded) is a good example of what happens, servers get overloaded causing players to lag and dropout, product support gets delayed... ruining the gaming experience for paying customers and costing the company millions because people didn't want to pay $20 for a great game they loved.

Activation is a fact of life for almost all software these days, you can thank every last pirate for making this happen and making it worse. Dragoonlordz explained very well it's much better having something simple than mailing a receipt every time you want to download something or ask support about a problem and this is what Origin does, makes it simple while also not 'phoning home' or installing DRM. 

The few times I've needed support on software, my actual answer has come from those in the community, not from the manufacturer, so support is a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. 

Patches after shipping are part of the cost of publishers making it common practice to use their customers beta testers after those customers have paid for the "privaledge".  Patches should be downloadable openly with no requirement to log in or register. 

As for the pirates, no DRM or other scheme has stopped them, so again, that's a non-issue in arguing for imposing Origin on paying customers.

For single-player games, which ME3 is despite the cram-on of the MP "feature", server load isn't an issue, or at least isn't if the developers don't artificially make it one.

Modifié par Killjoy Cutter, 27 janvier 2012 - 10:02 .

[ZLurps]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

How far do you think the oft-exampled appliance companies would get, if they tried to claim the "right" to require you prove that you had actually purchased a toaster before the coils would heat up, every single morning as you made toast?  Or that they could show up and confiscate any toaster you didn't have a receipt for at any time? 

In the real world, there needs to be reasonable suspicion or other solidly actionable grounds before someone can be accused of theft and have the items taken away from them, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. 

Only in the fantasy world of software company HQs do they think it's reasonable to force people to prove that they didn't steal something over and over again. 

I think one reason for online activations and DRM is because corporate nature of say EA or Activision. Investors read horror stories about piracy and DRM is answer that companies gives to stockholders over and over again. Investors buy it because they don't know about gaming world and how things really work and they don't care. Nature of the beast.

I think it's going to backfire at some point.

Modifié par ZLurps, 27 janvier 2012 - 10:01 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

billy the squid wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Actually, the customers ARE the ones footing the bill. For everything.

You got what you paid for you did not pay for development of future products.

E.g. You bought ME2 you got ME2, the money spent in buying ME2 does not give you right to decide/dictate the future of ME3. You can leave feedback and state and opinion on what you would like but you did not pay for ME3 until it is released of which then you either buy then or don't and if do buy then; and only then did you pay for ME3.

And if we don't like the direction of ME3, we don't purchase it, and THEN the company is left paying for its development.  Ooops.

On a slight side note, Company finances don't work like that. Money for ME2 is not earmarked for development of ME3. They are allocated elsewhere and not kept as liquid cash soley for the next installment, it would be a waste of invesment opportunity.

That's why I said "ME3" and ME3".  If money is paid to develop a game and then no one buys it, the company is left holding the bag.

[billy the squid]

ZLurps wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

How far do you think the oft-exampled appliance companies would get, if they tried to claim the "right" to require you prove that you had actually purchased a toaster before the coils would heat up, every single morning as you made toast?  Or that they could show up and confiscate any toaster you didn't have a receipt for at any time? 

In the real world, there needs to be reasonable suspicion or other solidly actionable grounds before someone can be accused of theft and have the items taken away from them, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. 

Only in the fantasy world of software company HQs do they think it's reasonable to force people to prove that they didn't steal something over and over again. 

I think one reason for online activations and DRM is because corporate nature of say EA or Activision. Investors read horror stories about piracy and DRM is answer that companies gives to stockholders over and over again. Investors buy it because they don't know about gaming world and how things really work and they don't care. Nature of the beast.

I think it's going to backfire at some point.

It already has look at Ubisoft.
 
The boggie man of piracy is an issue, but it to an extent has been blown out of proportion, the online activation is an extension of Copyright law that goes beyond the legislations intent to control the use of the product beyond the realms of what was envisioned by legislators. It serves as a wonderful tool to prevent resale of games and try and squeeze the retail markets.

[CenturyCrow]

What's not considered in the defense of DRM, DD like Origin, EULAs, etc. how much the gaming industry has changed over the years.

Years ago, we just bought a game, installed it, registered the serial number and played. It probably had a (very) small EULA about copyright. Some games came with a protection scheme or disk copy protection. But it was a retail product that came in a box, with an extensive manual (remember those?). You could sell the game, or trade it to someone or lend it to someone (just as you still can do with a lot of items like a book). Usually if there was some difficulty, it was a hardware issue or as disk copy protection schemes escalated, it was a disk failure because of copy protection.

But now, the EULA, the TOS and the rest of the legal speak lawyer additives are now the length of a short story and beyond most people to understand. Plus there's a revolving door policy with the EULA, TOS being so conveniently changed to suit the IP owner but not the users (i.e. SONY crippling the OS on the PS3). The manual is almost non-existent. DRM can still cause serious hardware or software problems or affect game play. Some DRM is always on even for single player games. Whatever right of first sale we had is totally gone. Support varies from very helpful to no help at all. Very costly to take a multi-billion dollar corporation to task in court and quite limited by the EULA.

The gamers have not altered the rules (other than the cheaters); they just want to play games. They want value for their money. It's the gaming industry that keeps making it more difficult, at least for me. And to the point where I'm ready to give it up, other than a few exceptions.

[MingWolf]

dmex wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

So you say your ok with activation/registering which is fine. I see it as if you wish to have any support or patches, updates or help with a product I do not think it is unfair for those who provide that support to make sure they are supporting someone who actually bought it and not stole it.

Look at it this way: I bought The Witcher 2 from GOG. I can install and play on any computer I own without ever having to access the internet. If I want patches, I need to grab them on-line from the Witcher 2 site, but I still don't need to register. GOG also provides the fully patched game later on once the patch cycle is near its end. In order to access that, I must be logged into my account on GOG's website to DL the game files. After that though, I'm free to install the game wherever I want, as many times as I want, with no restrictions. I don't have to phone home, don't have to activate, don't have any DRM to deal with. I don't need a separate client to prove I bought the game. That's the reason I paid full price for the game when it was released. Tthat's the reason I won't pay full price for a game that has restrictions.

Am I opposed to this type of thing (Origin, Steam)? Yes. However, I also realize this is the way things are going in our glorious digital future and it's not likely to change. I'll register my complaints when I can. I'll do what I can to oppose this type of thing. But in the end, I'll still accept it for a much reduced price. The bottom line is, money talks. And I'm letting mine talk with respect to what I'll pay for something that comes with restrictions and limitations.

*edit* Bolding.

Kudo's to Dragoonlordz for explaining the various reasons behind requiring the game verify your entitlements.

If you didn't pay for the game, you have no rights to the game, no rights to play the game, product support, our servers, our content or anything provided by the company... your Origin account acts as the electronic verification of ownership to grant these rights.

You also can't selectively decide when or how you're going to prove you own the game without handing the pirates the game itself and free access to our product support, our servers, our content...etc on a silver platter.

Imagine a scenario where there were 50,000 pirates to every one customer, all accessing support, our servers, our content...etc without buying the game to pay for these services... Realtime Worlds (makers of APB Reloaded) is a good example of what happens, servers get overloaded causing players to lag and dropout, product support gets delayed... ruining the gaming experience for paying customers and costing the company millions because people didn't want to pay $20 for a great game they loved.

Activation is a fact of life for almost all software these days, you can thank every last pirate for making this happen and making it worse. Dragoonlordz explained very well it's much better having something simple than mailing a receipt every time you want to download something or ask support about a problem and this is what Origin does, makes it simple while also not 'phoning home' or installing DRM. 

That may be what Origin does, or attempts to do.  But are the method employed via clients like Origin really the answer?  Does the end always justify the mean?

Also, I don't quite buy the thing about activation being the fact of life.  It may be the trend, and is a commonly applied method.  It's not hard to understand why activation is needed.  But it all boils down to this: does it work?

And while we are trying to flush out those nasty pirates, let's consider the collateral.  Who is being affected here?  The evil pirates?  Are all the people here complaining about Origin pirates?  It is the customers who are footing the bill, not the pirates.  Activation may be common but I have to disagree with you here: it is not a fact of life.  There are good reasons why some companies market their software as DRM free.  There are companies that strive to make this easier for the end-customer.  I've asked a software developer for a product they sell as to how effective their DRM activation system is, and they can never quite answer, because quite frankly, they don't know. 

I bolded your last sentence here.  It seems a lot of people are in disgreement with that particular line.  According to one definition "Digital Rights Management:" DRM refers to a collection of systems used to protect the copyrights of electronic media. 

It IS DRM.

Edit/Addition: As for your point about the 50,000 pirates.  Heh, The Witcher 2 certainly didn't have that problem.  It was not a pirate free game, but CDPR also weren't paranoid. 

Modifié par MingWolf, 27 janvier 2012 - 10:19 .

[billy the squid]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

billy the squid wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Actually, the customers ARE the ones footing the bill. For everything.

You got what you paid for you did not pay for development of future products.

E.g. You bought ME2 you got ME2, the money spent in buying ME2 does not give you right to decide/dictate the future of ME3. You can leave feedback and state and opinion on what you would like but you did not pay for ME3 until it is released of which then you either buy then or don't and if do buy then; and only then did you pay for ME3.

And if we don't like the direction of ME3, we don't purchase it, and THEN the company is left paying for its development.  Ooops.

On a slight side note, Company finances don't work like that. Money for ME2 is not earmarked for development of ME3. They are allocated elsewhere and not kept as liquid cash soley for the next installment, it would be a waste of invesment opportunity.

That's why I said "ME3" and ME3".  If money is paid to develop a game and then no one buys it, the company is left holding the bag.

The funds are already allocated and the product financed by the company, the company has already credited that product with an amount of funding, as such the company is already left holding the bag. The debits will come in later, months after the costs are tallied by the accountancy department and the revenue used for other projects. The cost of ME3 will have already been covered from a variety of sources.

The revenue from ME3 will be used to service the debts of EA's financing or reinvested is share purchases, internal IP development etc.

[ZLurps]

billy the squid wrote...

ZLurps wrote...

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

How far do you think the oft-exampled appliance companies would get, if they tried to claim the "right" to require you prove that you had actually purchased a toaster before the coils would heat up, every single morning as you made toast?  Or that they could show up and confiscate any toaster you didn't have a receipt for at any time? 

In the real world, there needs to be reasonable suspicion or other solidly actionable grounds before someone can be accused of theft and have the items taken away from them, and the burden of proof is on the accuser. 

Only in the fantasy world of software company HQs do they think it's reasonable to force people to prove that they didn't steal something over and over again. 

I think one reason for online activations and DRM is because corporate nature of say EA or Activision. Investors read horror stories about piracy and DRM is answer that companies gives to stockholders over and over again. Investors buy it because they don't know about gaming world and how things really work and they don't care. Nature of the beast.

I think it's going to backfire at some point.

It already has look at Ubisoft.
 
The boggie man of piracy is an issue, but it to an extent has been blown out of proportion, the online activation is an extension of Copyright law that goes beyond the legislations intent to control the use of the product beyond the realms of what was envisioned by legislators. It serves as a wonderful tool to prevent resale of games and try and squeeze the retail markets.

Very true. It's just impossible for me to believe that people are really going with the "rent" model because one of the things people want is to own things. When industry comes to the point where infra and laws would allow them to go with rent model as much as they like, people may rent some things, but put more of their purchasing power in products they can actually own (and sell).

[Mitchumas]

I may have missed this but then again I'm too lazy to look back over both forums too see if it has been answered: Why is it that the PC version needs Origin to run the single player game, yet for the PS3 and Xbox 360 it's not? I don't own a console, wouldn't waste me time with one... 32frames a second console vs 120 frames a second PC... the speed and stability I built my PC around to just play awesome games like ME & DA, why would I want to down grade gaming XP. I understand the whole pirate thing in protecting your software, the DLC and making sure you copy is a brought one... access to EA servers for support (that doesn't really work), and for some reason the MP parts... but I have seen pirate copies of PS3 and Xbox 360 games... work just like their brought copies?? so why is Origin forced to the PC market??

[Wardka]

Having returned to this thread, I'm not surprised to see that the backseat moderation has continued, or that it seems more or less anything is allowed as long as you defend BioWare and EA. I read back many pages, and it seems that it's perfectly acceptable to ridicule those who complain, calling us paranoid, referring to our concerns as whining or moaning, mocking the MOO initiative or anything along these lines. Is that the kind of community BioWare wants their social site to be?

It's disheartening. This would've never gone on for this long on the old BioWare forums. Chris and Stanley have made BioWare's stance clear, but I had hoped they would at least be consistent in their moderation.

Also, has anyone actually gotten a response to emails sent to BioWare? They simply don't seem to reply.

[billy the squid]

@Mitchumas. Because EA wants to set up Origin as a digital distribution platform to compete with Steam.

[Eurypterid]

dmex wrote...
Activation is a fact of life for almost all
software these days, you can thank every last pirate for making this
happen and making it worse. Dragoonlordz explained very well it's much
better having something simple than mailing a receipt every time you
want to download something or ask support about a problem and this is
what Origin does, makes it simple while also not 'phoning home' or
installing DRM. 

Origin is DRM, dmex.

And please, toss out the names of a couple games that, no matter how much DRM, activation, or registration has been imposed, have not been pirated.

I'm not arguing with your other points, but one thing you're
overlooking is for a single player game, there's no reason to have to
access your servers, so overloading them such as in your example is a
non-issue.

[Pkxm]

"our servers" must mean multiplayer servers. we wouldn't need to play on YOUR servers if you didn't take away dedicated servers.

I knew EA would pull something like this when they took away our ability to run our own multiplayer servers. PC gamers have had that since the begining. Now they get to throw this up in our faces "its OUR servers OUR bandwidth and we need to charge you for it"

And guess what happens when EA decides they don't want to run the servers anymore? Yep..can't play. Good luck playing ME3 multiplayer 5 years from now. I still play Quake every now and then with friends, only possible because we have the ability to run our own servers. EA thinks thats a no no though. Another reason EA has a bad reputation

Modifié par Jsxdf, 27 janvier 2012 - 10:31 .

[Wardka]

Mitchumas wrote...

I may have missed this but then again I'm too lazy to look back over both forums too see if it has been answered: Why is it that the PC version needs Origin to run the single player game, yet for the PS3 and Xbox 360 it's not? I don't own a console, wouldn't waste me time with one... 32frames a second console vs 120 frames a second PC... the speed and stability I built my PC around to just play awesome games like ME & DA, why would I want to down grade gaming XP. I understand the whole pirate thing in protecting your software, the DLC and making sure you copy is a brought one... access to EA servers for support (that doesn't really work), and for some reason the MP parts... but I have seen pirate copies of PS3 and Xbox 360 games... work just like their brought copies?? so why is Origin forced to the PC market??

The gist of it is that EA knows that Origin doesn't offer enough to the consumer for a sizable amount of people to install it for its own sake, so they attach it to high profile games like Battlefield 3 and Mass Effect 3 in order to "sneak" it onto people's computers, and hopefully (in their eyes) in the long run, convince people to buy games from it.

[LittleDiegito]

dmex wrote...

If you didn't pay for the game, you have no rights to the game, no rights to play the game, product support, our servers, our content or anything provided by the company... your Origin account acts as the electronic verification of ownership to grant these rights.

You also can't selectively decide when or how you're going to prove you own the game without handing the pirates the game itself and free access to our product support, our servers, our content...etc on a silver platter.

Imagine a scenario where there were 50,000 pirates to every one customer, all accessing support, our servers, our content...etc without buying the game to pay for these services... Realtime Worlds (makers of APB Reloaded) is a good example of what happens, servers get overloaded causing players to lag and dropout, product support gets delayed... ruining the gaming experience for paying customers and costing the company millions because people didn't want to pay $20 for a great game they loved.

Activation is a fact of life for almost all software these days, you can thank every last pirate for making this happen and making it worse. Dragoonlordz explained very well it's much better having something simple than mailing a receipt every time you want to download something or ask support about a problem and this is what Origin does, makes it simple while also not 'phoning home' or installing DRM. 

But I DID buy the game (incidentally my copy of ME3 has been fully paid for for several months now), and I STILL have no rights to the game. I've paid a hell of a lot more than $20 for games I love and STILL get crap service. Hell, just a week ago I had to contact EA support, they solved my issue by telling me to post it on the forums to get help.

I don't even want any of the crap Origin does. I have no interest in multiplayer. I buy retail copies of games because I manage my games not you. If I wanted a DD service I would join a DD service. I want to buy a physical copy, install it, and play it. I have no problem activating it (all of the games I own are registered through their respective companies). What I don't want is extra crap that is 'enhancing' my experience by taking up space on my drive and using up resources to do NOTHING. In fact I'm more than willing to make a copy of my receipt, cut the barcode off the box and mail them to EA. I just don't want extra useless crap on my computer.

I am so tired of companies treating me like I'm a criminal. I'm not a pirate, I don't believe in piracy. If I borrow a book, or a movie, or a game, or whatever from someone I go buy it afterwards. I have dozens of books on my bookshelf that are brand new never opened because I bought them after borrowing them in order to get the author/publisher/etc paid for their work.


Unrelated but if I were interested in sending a handwriten letter to John Riccitiello and Ray Muzyka would I just send it to their respective headquarters addressed to them or is there somewhere else I would send the letter to?

EDIT: Punctuation

Modifié par LittleDiegito, 27 janvier 2012 - 11:02 .

[Dragoonlordz]

MingWolf wrote...

That may be what Origin does, or attempts to do.  But are the method employed via clients like Origin really the answer?  Does the end always justify the mean?

Also, I don't quite buy the thing about activation being the fact of life.  It may be the trend, and is a commonly applied method.  It's not hard to understand why activation is needed.  But it all boils down to this: does it work?

And while we are trying to flush out those nasty pirates, let's consider the collateral.  Who is being affected here?  The evil pirates?  Are all the people here complaining about Origin pirates?  It is the customers who are footing the bill, not the pirates.  Activation may be common but I have to disagree with you here: it is not a fact of life.  There are good reasons why some companies market their software as DRM free.  There are companies that strive to make this easier for the end-customer.  I've asked a software developer for a product they sell as to how effective their DRM activation system is, and they can never quite answer, because quite frankly, they don't know. 

I bolded your last sentence here.  It seems a lot of people are in disgreement with that particular line.  According to one definition "Digital Rights Management:" DRM refers to a collection of systems used to protect the copyrights of electronic media. 

It IS DRM.

Edit/Addition: As for your point about the 50,000 pirates.  Heh, The Witcher 2 certainly didn't have that problem.  It was not a pirate free game, but CDPR also weren't paranoid. 

If the customers were actually putting more effort into combatting it then the publishers wouldn't have to do so much.

However most customers simply don't care and instead of trying to stop the one's stealing copies they spend all their time fighting the developers and publishers who are trying. In fact the worst people the ones on CDPR forums one of them which specifically said he wished the company would bend over and take the hit of being stolen from, do nothing in response; and that is a disgusting way to think imho.

CDPR gave everyone what they wanted in DRM free and amazing content as well as support (which is what some people here are also demanding via a different selection of words and phrase but same principle). The end result? They got screwed again by people stealing copies of their work in a (not small) amount. Of those same people not a single one has come up with better solution that will work. When CDPR said right at start was going to target those who steal copies of their hard work after supplying people with DRM free/amazing content, people cried and moaned again when they started doing so.

Imho it is better to do something than nothing, if do nothing then that problem will increase ten fold because there is nothing to stop them (no DRM and no punishment). A deterrent is better than giving free reign to steal from. We lock our doors, we install car alarms, we build walls around houses. This doesn't stop people breaking in, it doesn't stop people stealing the car or radio, it doesn't stop people walking in through gate or climbing over the wall.

It's doing what can to put them off even if won't erradicate the risk completley it is better to do something than nothing at all. DRM is not much different, they are trying to stop it even if has limited success until someone comes up with full proof 100% successful way then they will continue to try to find better ways to stop them. They sure as hell imho shouldn't leave the door open, rip out their own car alarm or knock down their walls because I promise it will only increase the risk and not lower it.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 27 janvier 2012 - 10:37 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Eurypterid wrote...

dmex wrote...
Activation is a fact of life for almost all
software these days, you can thank every last pirate for making this
happen and making it worse. Dragoonlordz explained very well it's much
better having something simple than mailing a receipt every time you
want to download something or ask support about a problem and this is
what Origin does, makes it simple while also not 'phoning home' or
installing DRM. 

Origin is DRM, dmex.

And please, toss out the names of a couple games that, no matter how much DRM, activation, or registration has been imposed, have not been pirated.

I'm not arguing with your other points, but one thing you're overlooking is for a single player game, there's no reason to have to access your servers, so overloading them such as in your example is a non-issue.

It's not a single player game. It's a single + multiplayer game. Just because the single player campaign is longer then say MW3 or on par with Halo doesn't change this.

[Mitchumas]

Wardka wrote...

Mitchumas wrote...

I may have missed this but then again I'm too lazy to look back over both forums too see if it has been answered: Why is it that the PC version needs Origin to run the single player game, yet for the PS3 and Xbox 360 it's not? I don't own a console, wouldn't waste me time with one... 32frames a second console vs 120 frames a second PC... the speed and stability I built my PC around to just play awesome games like ME & DA, why would I want to down grade gaming XP. I understand the whole pirate thing in protecting your software, the DLC and making sure you copy is a brought one... access to EA servers for support (that doesn't really work), and for some reason the MP parts... but I have seen pirate copies of PS3 and Xbox 360 games... work just like their brought copies?? so why is Origin forced to the PC market??

The gist of it is that EA knows that Origin doesn't offer enough to the consumer for a sizable amount of people to install it for its own sake, so they attach it to high profile games like Battlefield 3 and Mass Effect 3 in order to "sneak" it onto people's computers, and hopefully (in their eyes) in the long run, convince people to buy games from it.

I kind of thought that, I guess I was hoping there was a little more to it that just "pushing a product". I get the fact that EA want to have their own DD, but they need to do a lot more work on it before it should be stuck to a game... get rid of the bugs and stuff... because all I see in Origin and an agreed to version of spyware to play a game... But i still don't understand how they are going to try and control all of the pirate copies spead through the console community. I buy retail copies of every game I own, every one is a legit copy, still have the boxes they came in, still have the resipts inside of the boxes... and yet... I'm treated like a criminal (this is how EA makes it look to me)  Thanks for the answer, you too Billy the Squid...