3659 réponses à ce sujet

[MaaZeus]

Adugan wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

MaaZeus wrote...

cgrimm54 wrote...

This forum reeks of entitlement. "I don't want Origin because I don't trust it so get rid of it for me."
Hate me if you want, but EA isn't going to do anything about it. Priestly is doing what he can by looking over the old thread, but this constant whining and anger (which is perfectly legitimate) isn't helping anyone. Stanley told you to make a decision because we are all (or at least should be) adults here, and we have the right to cancel pre-orders and lose our trust in BioWare. What we shouldn't do is complain about it for pages and pages, then tear the developers to shreds any time they don't do exactly what we want. Grow up, cancel your pre-order, and be done with it.

Complaining on forums may not help, but apathy is sure to help even less. So I'd rather voice my opinion than stay silent, some (if the huge preorder sales drop tells anything) have even voted with their wallets.

But yes, I am quite done, mostly. I can only hope our opinion is heard.

Huh?

PC pre-orders still increased, by almost 600 hundred.

Sure, it about 2500 less than last week, but compared to almost 80,000 Xbox pre-orders in that same week its pretty minimal. More Xbox pre-orders were made last week than there PC pre-orders overall. And the amounf of console pre-orders has been increasing week by week so any impact from lower PC pre-orders will be more than made up for with console sales.

There are going to be people who do not read the forums, and will never be affected by BW announcements. Of course they will always get new preorders, but the point is that people read this and decided not to get the game.

This. Though the Origin announcement was done in friday and the charts were made on saturday, there is still the possibility that it was just a bad week for PC preorders. Its next week we know for sure.

[Adugan]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Adugan wrote...

There are going to be people who do not read the forums, and will never be affected by BW announcements. Of course they will always get new preorders, but the point is that people read this and decided not to get the game.

You have to remember if rely on VGC ME3 still has more than double the pre-orders on PC alone (with 8 weeks to go) then ME2 had in its first week and more than five times what ME1 had in its first week.

EA cares about the 10-30% that Valve takes from Steam DLC sales, so they would care if 90% of pc customers abandoned them. It would at least send a message.

[vallore]

Dragoonlordz wrote...


1. Data sent based on what looks at has been tested by me and others in last thread. It only scans its own game folder and your registry.

2. I can't answer but marketing is most obvious to me of which you answered yourself in your first question detail. However this isn't factual and more my own assumption based on most likely.

3. You can opt out of data collection on your EA account I believe on their website and you can opt out of data collection within ME3, whether not this also opts you out of data collection from those 2 sources I just mentioned in question one within Origin I do not know.

4. All EULAs are based on broad paint strokes and copy and pastes same with any other EULA in order to try to cover every possiblity they can. It says in it that only collects data from where client is shown to actually collect data in the current EULA I believe it was in the "we care about your privacy" part or something where states the client only looks at game folder and registry which fell under no identifiable information (however this also includes IP address but if upset over that then you may aswell stop using the internet given your ISP, search engine and BSN knows your IP or records it for legal purposes).

Thanks or your answers, DragonLordz, it is much appreciated.

Regarding answer one: I thank you for taking the time to test it yourself and posting the results here. Still, I’m concerned that data collection may vary. They say in Origin EULA, article two that [the data] “...may be gathered periodically...”

If I’m not mistaken, at least some companies perform their data mining of any specific client either on random intervals or according with some specific calendar. (I may be wrong, of course). This means that, just because, at day one and subsequent weeks, or months, nothing is collected it is just because data collection wasn’t activated, yet.

Taking this in consideration, and since EA as not specified what it actually collects, as of yet, I believe the only way to be sure is for EA to came forward with the actual information. Besides, if it is truly innocuous, it can only aid their case, while the lack of transparency can only hurt it.  

Further, quoting the EULA, same second article concerning "Consent to Collection and Use of Data.":
“You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online services. “

These terms seem way far too excessive for what Origin appears to be doing now. And that suggests that may do much more, unless EA specifically clarify this issue, (which is what I’m hoping for). 

Regarding answer two: I agree, it is very possibly for marketing, but without certainty of what they collect, we cannot be sure.

Regarding answer three: A possible Opt-out exists, you say? this is a point that must be cleared out, with urgency, I believe. Again, thanks for pointing out this possibility. If we can opt out of Origin data collection from their site, then this must be made absolutely clear, ASAP. But I have my doubts that is the case; after all, many others have asked for that already, I it was possible, I’m sure Chris would have pointed that out, when he answered to ME3 data collection.

Regarding answer four:  Ummm. Sorry, but I have to disagree.  the point I quoted was very broad about what it can collect. Further, a generic EULA article, over a sensitive subject, that is causing substantial ill will, and distrust, in a large segment of the community in a critical time for the future of the Origin venture, and to a number of high profile games?

Seems rather incomprehensible to me. I suspect that they could have tighten the potential field of their data collection without adding significant risk to themselves; specially as they haven’t included any clear opt-out of data collecting. Why haven't they?

Still, I would be gladly willing to hear EA folks explanations, or better yet, an update of this article.

One more troubling point, I had just noticed, from the EULA:
Quote:
“We may also share that data with our third party service providers in a form that does not personally identify you.”
It appears EA still shares our data with third unmentioned parties, without our express consent.  Just doesn’t sell it anymore.

[TheRealJayDee]

Sylvianus wrote...

Mass Effect will be with Origin. despite all what was said. That means what ?  They are willing / ready to lose customers, obviously.

Sad, but true.

[Hedera]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

cgrimm54 wrote...

*me reading about dude banned for post directed at him*
*me reaching realization*
So. Origin.

Eh? 

EA seems to think they can get away with quite a bit, and with their new DD service, they're flexing their muscles to see how far they can go.  This is my explanation.  That's also why I'm glad Origin isn't set to start with my computer like Steam is.

[Dragoonlordz]

Adugan wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Adugan wrote...

There are going to be people who do not read the forums, and will never be affected by BW announcements. Of course they will always get new preorders, but the point is that people read this and decided not to get the game.

You have to remember if rely on VGC ME3 still has more than double the pre-orders on PC alone (with 8 weeks to go) then ME2 had in its first week and more than five times what ME1 had in its first week.

EA cares about the 10-30% that Valve takes from Steam DLC sales, so they would care if 90% of pc customers abandoned them. It would at least send a message.

Thats not going to happen. 90% of PC customers are not abandoning them though. To come close to 90% decrease based on pre-orders it would have to have the current 74k (retail only not including D2D, GG, Origin and Amazon) pre-order amount drop to around 9k pre-orders. Instead what happened last week is it went up by 600 more.

[Rudy Lis]

Ravenknight wrote...

Steam loads the game, which actually loads ORIGIN (Hallowed are the Ori), which THEN loads ME3?

Ahem. Please, don't get me wrong, but now I can:
- Run Origin.
- Run "Pinnacle Station" via Origin.
- Then Pinnacle Station will run Steam.
- Then Steam will run ME1.

Not that I doing that every so often, but for fun sake - it's like scratch your left ear with your right foot.

[Candidate 88766]

MaaZeus wrote...

Adugan wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

MaaZeus wrote...

cgrimm54 wrote...

This forum reeks of entitlement. "I don't want Origin because I don't trust it so get rid of it for me."
Hate me if you want, but EA isn't going to do anything about it. Priestly is doing what he can by looking over the old thread, but this constant whining and anger (which is perfectly legitimate) isn't helping anyone. Stanley told you to make a decision because we are all (or at least should be) adults here, and we have the right to cancel pre-orders and lose our trust in BioWare. What we shouldn't do is complain about it for pages and pages, then tear the developers to shreds any time they don't do exactly what we want. Grow up, cancel your pre-order, and be done with it.

Complaining on forums may not help, but apathy is sure to help even less. So I'd rather voice my opinion than stay silent, some (if the huge preorder sales drop tells anything) have even voted with their wallets.

But yes, I am quite done, mostly. I can only hope our opinion is heard.

Huh?

PC pre-orders still increased, by almost 600 hundred.

Sure, it about 2500 less than last week, but compared to almost 80,000 Xbox pre-orders in that same week its pretty minimal. More Xbox pre-orders were made last week than there PC pre-orders overall. And the amounf of console pre-orders has been increasing week by week so any impact from lower PC pre-orders will be more than made up for with console sales.

There are going to be people who do not read the forums, and will never be affected by BW announcements. Of course they will always get new preorders, but the point is that people read this and decided not to get the game.

This. Though the Origin announcement was done in friday and the charts were made on saturday, there is still the possibility that it was just a bad week for PC preorders. Its next week we know for sure.

Thing is, even if every single PC pre-order was cancelled the loss would be covered by one week's worth of console pre-orders. The pre-orders are already way ahead of the previous ME games, so this game is going to be a colossal commercial success. I mean, its not going to have FIFA or CoD levels of revenue, but it'll be high. No matter how many people here cancel their pre-orders, its not going to make a difference.

[Adugan]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Adugan wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Adugan wrote...

There are going to be people who do not read the forums, and will never be affected by BW announcements. Of course they will always get new preorders, but the point is that people read this and decided not to get the game.

You have to remember if rely on VGC ME3 still has more than double the pre-orders on PC alone (with 8 weeks to go) then ME2 had in its first week and more than five times what ME1 had in its first week.

EA cares about the 10-30% that Valve takes from Steam DLC sales, so they would care if 90% of pc customers abandoned them. It would at least send a message.

Thats not going to happen. 90% of PC customers are not abandoning them though. To come close to 90% decrease based on pre-orders it would have to have the current 74k (retail only not including D2D, GG, Origin and Amazon) pre-order amount drop to around 9k pre-orders. Instead what happened last week is it went up by 600 more.

That could mean people decided not to preorder, or a bunch of them cancelled while new orders were filled. Either way, it is a start. All thats left is to see how far it will go.

[anzolino]

cgrimm54 wrote...
Sigh...

Okay. Fine. I'm going to calm down now.

My difficulty with this whole thing is that regardless of what any of the people (read: Priestly or Woo or EA) say about this issue, not everyone will be satisfied. And because of that, this topic, or the inevitable next one after this is locked will continue along the same path. ME3 is shipping with Origin. Whether it ever gets on another platform is not something we will see for months.

I begin to see the point that outcry is the only thing we can do at this point, but calling the developers unprofessional and screaming about them not answering afterwards seems, to me, juvenile. What gets me mad, in the end, is the seemingly endless string of posts that ignore everything that has been said already and simply accuse "EAware" of stealing their banking info. <- I am aware that isn't completely accurate, but it all smears together.

What we need to remove Origin, if you all are so intent on it, isn't a neverending string of "EA is evil, let's go pirate, sale lost" and more reasoned arguments that Priestly can actually use. Which is not what I see in this thread.

You know, we are fighting against this EULA and Origin since August. This all has a history.
EA had once changed the EULA in August because of this "Third party" outrage and then only changed the whole thing step for step and only always if someone official claims about it, besides this Amazon 1 star action. They didn't care about the breach of the European Data Protection Directive and the breach of the data protection law in several EU countries until our data protector took action. They said Windows would made the file system accesses and Origin has nothing to do with it. But it's not true. So, you cannot blame us that we are still distrustful.

Why we (the opposite) get always attecked? Why doesn't anyone attack somebody who claims all that is fine and this whole online thing is the best thing ever? It isn't.

[Candidate 88766]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Ravenknight wrote...

Steam loads the game, which actually loads ORIGIN (Hallowed are the Ori), which THEN loads ME3?

Ahem. Please, don't get me wrong, but now I can:
- Run Origin.
- Run "Pinnacle Station" via Origin.
- Then Pinnacle Station will run Steam.
- Then Steam will run ME1.

Not that I doing that every so often, but for fun sake - it's like scratch your left ear with your right foot.

That is just ridiculous.

[MysterD]

Rudy Lis wrote...

Ravenknight wrote...

Steam loads the game, which actually loads ORIGIN (Hallowed are the Ori), which THEN loads ME3?

Ahem. Please, don't get me wrong, but now I can:
- Run Origin.
- Run "Pinnacle Station" via Origin.
- Then Pinnacle Station will run Steam.
- Then Steam will run ME1.

Not that I doing that every so often, but for fun sake - it's like scratch your left ear with your right foot.

Can't you just register your ME1 key on Origin; download ME1 from Origin; and skip Steam entirely?
Seriously - too many layers, if you also have Steam in the mix.

ME1 doesn't require Origin running in the background.
Steam normally forces itself to run in the background, while running a game.

Modifié par MysterD, 17 janvier 2012 - 01:19 .

[Candidate 88766]

Adugan wrote...

That could mean people decided not to preorder, or a bunch of them cancelled while new orders were filled. Either way, it is a start. All thats left is to see how far it will go.

It won't go far enough to ever make any real difference. Just look at how many pre-orders were made for the consoles. Last week alone they had more Xbox pre-orders than total PC pre-orders. You could cancel every single PC pre-order and it would be covered by one week of console pre-orders.

[Adugan]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Adugan wrote...

That could mean people decided not to preorder, or a bunch of them cancelled while new orders were filled. Either way, it is a start. All thats left is to see how far it will go.

It won't go far enough to ever make any real difference. Just look at how many pre-orders were made for the consoles. Last week alone they had more Xbox pre-orders than total PC pre-orders. You could cancel every single PC pre-order and it would be covered by one week of console pre-orders.

If they were all cancelled, the push for Origin would be a flop. If they do not care about PC, what is the point of even making Origin?

[Yuoaman]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Rudy Lis wrote...

Ravenknight wrote...

Steam loads the game, which actually loads ORIGIN (Hallowed are the Ori), which THEN loads ME3?

Ahem. Please, don't get me wrong, but now I can:
- Run Origin.
- Run "Pinnacle Station" via Origin.
- Then Pinnacle Station will run Steam.
- Then Steam will run ME1.

Not that I doing that every so often, but for fun sake - it's like scratch your left ear with your right foot.

That is just ridiculous.

You don't actually HAVE to run it that way, it's just crazy how roundabout you can do things sometimes.

[photographerleia]

cgrimm54 wrote...

@guy/girl above me
The discussion of piracy is what gets these threads locked.  Cancelling your pre-order because you don't want Origin is perfectly fine.  

Origin and EA appear to be testing the limits of what they can do.  If bans here got you kicked off your Origin account, hell yeah I'd join Cerberus consider getting mad too.

Girl:P

And yes bans here can get you kicked off your Origin account.

As for high seas activities, I've been following all of the posts since the last thread began, and talk of those activities has actually (thankfully) been kept to a minimum.  The few people who have insisted on discussing it were banned for 24hrs, or told to be quiet by the rest of the posters, but the thread itself was left open. 

I too agree, though, that EA appears to be testing its limits.  I just hope they are willing to deal with the fallout.  Even if the results are not immediate, the gaming community has a very long memory, and things like this are not easily forgotten.  That gaming community, however, is also as equally forgiving when they feel that publishers and developers listen to them.  A little bit of respect from EA right now would go a long way.  Instead, unfortunately, EA/BW seem to simply be digging themselves deeper with platitudes and stock answers that appear to address issues, but really say nothing at all.

[Docjam]

Chris, is it possible that after a period of time Mass Effect 3 will NOT require Origin? A year or so maybe? It really is a deal breaker for me, but I'd like to play the game on my platform of choice. I'm willing to wait if that's a possibility but you will never, ever, ever, convince me that Origin is a good thing.

[kofelover]

This. Though the Origin announcement was done in friday and the charts were made on saturday, there is still the possibility that it was just a bad week for PC preorders. Its next week we know for sure.
[/quote]Thing is, even if every single PC pre-order was cancelled the loss would be covered by one week's worth of console pre-orders. The pre-orders are already way ahead of the previous ME games, so this game is going to be a colossal commercial success. I mean, its not going to have FIFA or CoD levels of revenue, but it'll be high. No matter how many people here cancel their pre-orders, its not going to make a difference.
[/quote]

Except for the fact they want Origin to succeed as a PC download service in competition with Steam.  Console purchases do not directly affect the success of Origin - PC sales do.  Just saying.

[Stanley Woo]

apixaez wrote...
I noticed and I did read it. However I do not appreciate being treated like a child as it all boils down to having Origin on your computer which is the sole issue, no matter where it is made available for purchase. As I apparently have the need to clarify what I meant (shocking really), I will do so. Why am I forced a client upon me when there already is a perfectly working client with less issues doing the exact same thing, but better? Is it EA's sheer arrogance or do they really think Origin will become a success with all the negative publicity it has gotten?

Mass Effect is not currently available on Steam. You cannot get the game on Steam right now. Steam is not currently selling Mass Effect 3.

Whether Origin will "succeed" isn't really the question. The question is what has already been brought up in these discussions by others who feel as you do--whether to purchase Mass Effect 3 or not. And I have very little to do with that decision. i'm just trying to keep the screaming down to manageable levels so Mrs. Fenway in the apartment downstairs doesn't show up at our door again.

We both know the disagreement about the TOS is a load of .. well you know .. and some more fancy talk to make Origin feel like it's the "way forward".

No, we don't "both know" that. the disagreement about the TOS starts with the TOS itself, which can be considered an offer. Now that many of the big questions have been answered, each player and consumer has to decide for himself whether to accept that offer and purchase the game. Some have chosen not to take the offer. Some have suggested alternatives. Some have chosen to accept the offer.

Uh no, the german EULA has been updated, not the one that matters to me. And let's see, general community with a brain:"ORIGIN DATAMINES YOUR COMPUTER FOR STUFF IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH! VIEW EVIDENCE A TO Z!" Single person working for the company providing Origin:"No guys, really, it doesn't (anymore)!"

Yeah, you make a pursuading arguement. Unfortunately, whether it still does or not, the damage has been done and trust has been damaged beyond repair.

Then we really have nothing more to talk about, do we?

Thank you for giving me my right to what I am entitled to do with my hard earned cash. I wish you were this easy going with your choice of forcing Origin on me too as I am supposed to buy Mass Effect 3 and not Origin or OriginEffect3. But I do appreciate your comments, it makes you a lot more popular in my book.

The right to do as you wish with your cash was not given by me. I'm just reiterating it since some people tend to forget that such choice and power is ultimately theirs. in fact, it even slips your mind when you mention "forcing Origin on me". The offer is there. We are not offering to sell them separately. Chris Priestly states rather explicitly that Origin is coming with Mass Effect 3. It is up to you, the consumer, to choose whether to purchase the game (ie. accept the offer) or not purchase the game. I promise you, no one here will think any differently of you regardless of your choice.

Thank you for clarifying your position.

[MaaZeus]

Thing is, even if every single PC pre-order was cancelled the loss would be covered by one week's worth of console pre-orders. The pre-orders are already way ahead of the previous ME games, so this game is going to be a colossal commercial success. I mean, its not going to have FIFA or CoD levels of revenue, but it'll be high. No matter how many people here cancel their pre-orders, its not going to make a difference.

True. But you forget Origin out of the equation. If you didnt notice EA is quite hellbent on making Origin a some kind of success story on PC like Steam is, why would it be forced on us otherwise by a game like ME3 that has been so dearly waited? So, if ME3 fails on PC because people are angry at the forced Origin, the game itself may not fail thanks to console sales but it will certainly be (another) embarrasing spot in Origins fame, maybe even enough to make EA rethink their PC strategy in the future. Although that may not necessarily be for the best now that I think about it...


*edit* was ninja'ed by Adugan

Modifié par MaaZeus, 17 janvier 2012 - 01:27 .

[Candidate 88766]

Adugan wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Adugan wrote...

That could mean people decided not to preorder, or a bunch of them cancelled while new orders were filled. Either way, it is a start. All thats left is to see how far it will go.

It won't go far enough to ever make any real difference. Just look at how many pre-orders were made for the consoles. Last week alone they had more Xbox pre-orders than total PC pre-orders. You could cancel every single PC pre-order and it would be covered by one week of console pre-orders.

If they were all cancelled, the push for Origin would be a flop. If they do not care about PC, what is the point of even making Origin?

The fact that they made Origin shows that they do care about the PC market and are hoping that it'll be successful enough in the coming years to support it.

The fact that Origin isn't very good is neither here nor there - the fact that they're pushing so hard for it shows that unlike, say, Ubisoft, EA does think the PC market is worth remaining a part of.

[Rockworm503]

Incognito JC wrote...

kofelover wrote...

Indeed.  He's "communicating directly with us customers"....

I'm shocked. Should've seen this before my latest post. Sad indeed.

Not even the worst of it.
Most of it was long winded about nothing telling us that the anwers on Chris' first post and we should pretty much eat their lies.

[Elphaba]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Elphaba wrote...

If I install ME3 via the ORIGINs service is there the possibility of EA disabling my copy of the game on my PC because of something I say on the forums or any other reason?

Yes.

Also, you have the best f*cking name on this thread. Green Power!

/blushes into a mean shade of lime

[Candidate 88766]

MaaZeus wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Thing is, even if every single PC pre-order was cancelled the loss would be covered by one week's worth of console pre-orders. The pre-orders are already way ahead of the previous ME games, so this game is going to be a colossal commercial success. I mean, its not going to have FIFA or CoD levels of revenue, but it'll be high. No matter how many people here cancel their pre-orders, its not going to make a difference.

True. But you forget Origin out of the equation. If you didnt notice EA is quite hellbent on making Origin a some kind of success story on PC like Steam is, why would it be forced on us otherwise by a game like ME3 that has been so dearly waited? So, if ME3 fails on PC because people are angry at the forced Origin, the game itself may not fail thanks to console sales but it will certainly be (another) embarrasing spot in Origins fame, maybe even enough to make EA rethink their PC strategy in the future. Although that may not necessarily be for the best now that I think about it...

The millions who have Origin for BF3 will more than cover a few thousand lost sales of ME3.

The only real chance Origin had of failing was if people boycotted BF3. EA put everything they had behind that - if it had failed, so would Origin. In the first 10 weeks over 1.2 million bought BF3 on PC, so Origin has at least 1.2 million users. The 70,000 pre-orders for ME3 aren't going to dent that either way.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 17 janvier 2012 - 01:26 .

[Rockworm503]

cgrimm54 wrote...

This forum reeks of entitlement. "I don't want Origin because I don't trust it so get rid of it for me."
Hate me if you want, but EA isn't going to do anything about it. Priestly is doing what he can by looking over the old thread, but this constant whining and anger (which is perfectly legitimate) isn't helping anyone. Stanley told you to make a decision because we are all (or at least should be) adults here, and we have the right to cancel pre-orders and lose our trust in BioWare. What we shouldn't do is complain about it for pages and pages, then tear the developers to shreds any time they don't do exactly what we want. Grow up, cancel your pre-order, and be done with it.

LOL its now entitlement to value my privacy now.
What morew ill the fanboys come up with.