3659 réponses à ce sujet

[Rockworm503]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...


They have a deadline to meet that's already pre-planned.Now after the game launches they could come back and see about a no origin option.

Fixing for long quote boxes.

Why are you defending this?  The game is still 3 months away if they want Origin off they can do it now and not miss the deadline this is cherry picking to make your side look better.
Yes they have a deadline like any other.
No I don't accept Origin as its current state.
Yes they already decided on Origin long before the Steam dispute.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Steam is half the problem. Steam is why Origin exists in the first place.

^This , If steam didn't exist or failed you wouldn't be having to worry about origin.

I'm not so sure about that.

I am , if someone sees someone getting more buisness because they added something , it's natural that person will try and do the something.

[Wardka]

I do wonder if BioWare has ANY say in all of this, or if it's 100% an EA decision - it'd be interesting to know. I mean, no doubt they have to do what EA tells them to, but, yeah.

And I usually like when people are blunt and straightforward. Still though, I admit it'd feel a bit better if the BioWare attitude was less "sucks to be you" and more "sucks to lose some loyal fans". But it's not really their job to make me feel better, either, I guess.

[kofelover]

Wardka wrote...

I do wonder if BioWare has ANY say in all of this, or if it's 100% an EA decision - it'd be interesting to know. I mean, no doubt they have to do what EA tells them to, but, yeah.

And I usually like when people are blunt and straightforward. Still though, I admit it'd feel a bit better if the BioWare attitude was less "sucks to be you" and more "sucks to lose some loyal fans". But it's not really their job to make me feel better, either, I guess.

This summarizes exactly how I feel. 

[Ryzaki]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Steam is half the problem. Steam is why Origin exists in the first place.

^This , If steam didn't exist or failed you wouldn't be having to worry about origin.

I'm not so sure about that.

I am , if someone sees someone getting more buisness because they added something , it's natural that person will try and do the something.

Yup so if Origin succeeds expect to see Ubisoft, Activision and all other major gaming companies do the same thing.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 janvier 2012 - 02:29 .

[burdy]

Luvinn wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

PC pre-orders already plummet lol?

Weekly increase in Pre-Orders last week:
Mass Effect 3 X360 - 55,958
PS3 - 7,006
PC - 3,102


Weekly increase in Pre-Orders this week:
X360 - 78,888 ( +41%)
PS3 - 9,644 (+37.7%)
PC - 589 (-81%)

Epic! Should put EA brass on that show "are you smarter than a 5th grader" because even they could see why this is the case.

A 5th grader would have figured out, that a drop in preorders from the days 9th-14th is hardly related to an announcement made on the 14th.

[crimzontearz]

Zanallen wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
if you can say nothing to quell the situation for whatever reason then say nothing at all....

un bel tacer non fu mai scritto

Yes, because that is a proven method when dealing with rage on the BSN. Oh wait, no. That never works. Instead it just causes people to get louder and louder while conspiracy theories crop up about why Bioware isn't saying anything.

right because "don't like? GTFO!" yields much better results

also it was implied a "we are gathering information on the matter, we will let you know asap"

would be somewhat acceptable

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Rockworm503 wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...


They have a deadline to meet that's already pre-planned.Now after the game launches they could come back and see about a no origin option.

Fixing for long quote boxes.

Why are you defending this?  The game is still 3 months away if they want Origin off they can do it now and not miss the deadline this is cherry picking to make your side look better.
Yes they have a deadline like any other.
No I don't accept Origin as its current state.
Yes they already decided on Origin long before the Steam dispute.

I'm not defending it , I'm just say evaluate the product for yourself.I'm not on any side , personally I think the fact that their isn't an alternative solution is stupid.EA clearly didn't care to think this issue through , but at the end of the day it's up to the customer.

[IliyaMoroumetz]

I am , if someone sees someone getting more buisness because they added something , it's natural that person will try and do the something.

True that may be, just because you can try and emulate something doesn't mean you should.  That's the problem with EA, I think.  They didn't consider the potential backlash, only looked at the money and said, "Let's do it!"

In addition, not every copy of a successful product does well.

[Sylvianus]

Well, the first post of christ was totally empathetic toward the fans, and from what I read, he has not received a single message of understanding in the other thread.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 17 janvier 2012 - 02:24 .

[sonofalich]

i don't mind it too much but it's just a damn shame it won't be on steam. i like my unified library of games and having all these games between these different programs is really turning me off from PC gaming.

Modifié par sonofalich, 17 janvier 2012 - 02:23 .

[photographerleia]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Or it's too late to get rid of origin without delaying the title further.

At this point I think most of us would go for a patch to remove Origin requirements post release ... meaning we could buy it after a patch was released and get an Origin-free experience.   They have options whether they want us to think they do or not.

Modifié par photographerleia, 17 janvier 2012 - 02:23 .

[apixaez]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Steam is half the problem. Steam is why Origin exists in the first place.

^This , If steam didn't exist or failed you wouldn't be having to worry about origin.

I'm not so sure about that.

I am , if someone sees someone getting more buisness because they added something , it's natural that person will try and do the something.

What a simplistic way of looking at things. It's like saying we wouldn't need banana's if we didn't have apples.
Steam didn't fail, so apparently there is enough demand or use of the service to be succesful. So apparently Valve did something right.

Why Origin gets so fiercely rejected then by a lot of people is for you to discover then, if you really don't get it.

[Stanley Woo]

apixaez wrote...
can you understand from our point of view why I would not go for Origin if there is a better alternative out there with more choices of games with less issues and scrutiny and why I would prefer that client, whether the game is available there or not (yet)?

Absolutely. We all would prefer to have the game we want purchased from the service we want. i am familiar with Steam and its features, yes. i have many games on Steam, including Saint's Row 3.

I already said that I understand it's not really up to you and that I do appreciate your reply, but not in the way it was formulated. And if you really do care about your fanbase I'd say you have a lot to do with that decision. Show trust and respect for your fanbase and they will do so in return. It's a two-way thing.

I can agree with you only up to a point. Your "trust" scenario works very well in large-scale, but has less effect when dealing with our online community, and very little effect at all when you're talking about me and you exchanging messages like this. You are at a distinct advantage when talking about fanbase trust in this context.

what is better? "Losing" (Investment I'd say in exchange for their servers, etc) 30% in definite sales or losing 100% sales by who knows how many exactly by pushing people this way? Besides that, we have a saying in my language .. "customer is king" .. I believe that's a business lesson not taught there..

When dealing with thousands of different gamers from around the world, each with highly exacting and sometimes conflicting preferences, tolerances, suggestions, and demands? And you have to please all of them with a single product? Yes, it would be difficult to adopt a "the customer is always right" attitude for any large-scale developer. but I can't answer your question, as it's leading, arbitrary, and I am not at liberty to respond to that type of hypothetical choice. Again, you are at a distinct advantage in this context.

It has not slipt my mind at all, I'm just saying that I wish you were as easy going with giving me choice when it comes down to Origin considering it's my money. I am just slightly alarmed by your attitude that you do not seem to care whether you make more sales or not. Need I remind you what happened to Ubisoft when they adopted a certain attitude?

I am not here to be a shill. I am here to moderate the thread and try to engage in discussion when I can. I do not have the answers you seek, nor do I have the power to influence the kind of change you are asking for. But I can encourage people to exercise their consumer power, if this subject is indeed the breaking point for them.

If I showed any indication of caring about sales, the community would jump all over me and call me a marketing shill or a corporate yes-man. That may be what you want--a villain you can feel good about railing against--but it'll have to be someone other than me or Chris. We love our community and we know the feeling is reciprocated, but there will be times when we have to disagree on things.

Please do not take this as a personal attack of any sort, I am just concerned the way Bioware is heading, a company I've supported and cherished for a long time, one of the few developers that always stood out for me.

i don't take it as a personal attack, and i appreciate the chance to get to a less rocky ground with you. As long as we have fans like you, I think BioWare will turn out just fine. Just keep telling us where we're going wrong, in your opinion (and let's make it less shouty and more talky, for both our sakes), and we will do what we can to keep making the kinds of game experiences that you and our community want to support.

Again, thank you for your comments.

[Rockworm503]

slimgrin wrote...

Steam is half the problem. Steam is why Origin exists in the first place. People need to quit apologizing for Steam, cause guess what? It's a required client as well.

Yea thats a good scapegoat.

Steam doesn't make me feel dirty using it.  You can sprout this "all DRM is bad" nonesense all you want Steam can hardly be considered DRM in any sense as far as I'm conserned.

[vallore]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

There is certainly an element of truth to that, but in order for tests we ran to show such it would have to go on the principle that the client itself would stop searching where it currently does and completley switch to searching elsewhere at that specific time. I cannot rule it out without keeping it on for entire month sitting at computer screen staring at the data for that period to rule it out. But I have to rely on my own common sense that it won't just switch it's routine on a specific day because if get into that mindset then there is no hope for the future.

As in what if that does not happen for the first month that kept eye on it even if they send data during that period and it's all fine and dandy doing as supposed to but what if they randomly do it a year from now. There is only so much (I don't wish to use the word here but I cannot think of better one to describe this very specific aspect) paranoia that something may happen. I believe I said in the other thread how I am not the kind of person who wishes to spend the rest of my life living in fear of what might happen, there comes a point where the data you have needs to be sufficient. I am at that stage at this current time (personally) but I cannot make that decision for others.

Paranoia? Hardly. If Origins had never done anything dubious, and the EULA was worded to guarantee users rights, suspicion that it could be used to data mine one’s computer could be described as paranoia.

But apparently Origin was seen to go where it shouldn’t before, by multiple witnesses, (including what appears to be some credible movies of the act), and the EULA was worded in such a way that allows for it, (and still does),  and, on top of it, a previous EULA stated that EA might sell collected data, (if I remember correctly), and even now EA may share it. So, it seems to me there are strong, valid reasons to want a clarification of this issue. To dismiss  it so lightly seems a tad hasty.

I can only speak for myself on how I interpret that section to mean. I work in IT and to me the IP and operating system information as well as peripheral hardware it mentioned can be obtained from the registry and I admitted it looks there which is fine (to me), the software and software usage to me means the game and the client both are software and both are scanned as mentioned the same could apply to the application usage which could mean game and client again. Especially when the last part says it may be used for the purpose of software updates, served content (DLC imho) plus product support meaning information about client and game if have any bugs or problems with them.

Now there is an element of what each individual beleives it means, to me if means what I believe then it matches what the software is shown to be doing. Could they maybe replace words software with Origin or each games they produce.. Maybe but I consider EULAs have always been written in fairly broad strokes and general terms. We may feel differently about what it means and how to interpret it but your not wrong to have a possible different view about what it might mean. 

I guess it could mean that, which is why I’m looking for answers an not simply left, but it begs a question; why not to call it by the name then? Why use terms that can be translated to mean anything in the user’s computer? Especially after all that happened regarding it, it seems very inappropriate, in my opinion.

[bleetman]

Having only just discovered this, for various reasons:

I lack the lung capacity to sigh with the force and duration require to express just how God damn frustrated this news makes me. Urgh, etc.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

I am , if someone sees someone getting more buisness because they added something , it's natural that person will try and do the something.

True that may be, just because you can try and emulate something doesn't mean you should.  That's the problem with EA, I think.  They didn't consider the potential backlash, only looked at the money and said, "Let's do it!"

In addition, not every copy of a successful product does well.

True , but EA saw this as a way to turn around the EA accounts and have rebuilt the service.

[Dragoonlordz]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

IliyaMoroumetz wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Steam is half the problem. Steam is why Origin exists in the first place.

^This , If steam didn't exist or failed you wouldn't be having to worry about origin.

I'm not so sure about that.

I am , if someone sees someone getting more buisness because they added something , it's natural that person will try and do the something.

You are correct, Valve showed there was a truly huge market for DD services. EA (now) wants a peice of the pie and to be honest they are not in the wrong for wanting it from a business perspective. There is risk but if does not fail (it won't lets be honest here even thought their prices on their service is not as good right now as others, plus they said other developers are planning to use Origin service to distribute their titles), the chance of reward is huge. EA are by far big enough to take that risk and take it a long way.

They won't crumble over ME3 on this by any stretch of the imagination. That isn't to say I think the ones who wish for changes are being childish but more the realisation of what is compared to what they would like. As it stands right now it will be with and won't change and they have firmly stated this. After ME3 I do not know but I do not think will change even then. ME3 is currently double and will likely triple day one sales compared to ME2 according to current VGC information even though this week will be interesting to see what happens on there.

[Rudy Lis]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

^This , If steam didn't exist or failed you wouldn't be having to worry about origin.

A holy place is never empty (or something like that). If there were no Steam, it was worth to be invented.
Plus, there are more: not all of us lives in States and have access to many "North American events". Even if you order retail box from, let’s say Amazon, there is no guarantee that you will receive it in working condition, if you receive it at all (yeah-yeah, those people with sticky fingers). Add shipping cost, delay time, total random regarding "safe and sound" condition of your package and compare it with hated Steam - no middlemen, reasonable prices (unless your prices in Euro or relatively expensive currency), delay time limited only by breadth of your connection and no one will ever drop your envelope into mud or manure. What's not to like?

[anzolino]

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...
IE would be what your launching Origin through or it could be the fact that IE is built into the windows system for using the internet.Origins looks at computer hardware/software and ip address.Even if it did search your pictures , it can't use that data because it is private and you can sue them for it.

IE: Uhm, no I don't think so. Origin searches the registry for internet settings, there is no need to go through the cookie folder or the history, there are no internet settings in these folders. I don't like these cookie folders because of the Facebook datr cookie. There were a lot attention given to this in the last time. Many of people never delete their cookies, this folder isn't usually empty and full of informations about the user activities on the net.
The Hardware ID it gets from the registry key.

Scanning and searching are one thing . uploaded your private info is a different story.

True, but the data in these folders are not Origin related, are they? Origin has an own Webcache folder.

[Rockworm503]

Well I finally caught up with this thread.
i've said all I can say.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Rudy Lis wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

^This , If steam didn't exist or failed you wouldn't be having to worry about origin.

A holy place is never empty (or something like that). If there were no Steam, it was worth to be invented.
Plus, there are more: not all of us lives in States and have access to many "North American events". Even if you order retail box from, let’s say Amazon, there is no guarantee that you will receive it in working condition, if you receive it at all (yeah-yeah, those people with sticky fingers). Add shipping cost, delay time, total random regarding "safe and sound" condition of your package and compare it with hated Steam - no middlemen, reasonable prices (unless your prices in Euro or relatively expensive currency), delay time limited only by breadth of your connection and no one will ever drop your envelope into mud or manure. What's not to like?

Probably , but we don't know for sure.

Ok , for SP this won't be a problem if that's your worrry about dropped connection.

[kofelover]

Stanley Woo wrote...

apixaez wrote...
can you understand from our point of view why I would not go for Origin if there is a better alternative out there with more choices of games with less issues and scrutiny and why I would prefer that client, whether the game is available there or not (yet)?

Absolutely. We all would prefer to have the game we want purchased from the service we want. i am familiar with Steam and its features, yes. i have many games on Steam, including Saint's Row 3.

I already said that I understand it's not really up to you and that I do appreciate your reply, but not in the way it was formulated. And if you really do care about your fanbase I'd say you have a lot to do with that decision. Show trust and respect for your fanbase and they will do so in return. It's a two-way thing.

I can agree with you only up to a point. Your "trust" scenario works very well in large-scale, but has less effect when dealing with our online community, and very little effect at all when you're talking about me and you exchanging messages like this. You are at a distinct advantage when talking about fanbase trust in this context.

what is better? "Losing" (Investment I'd say in exchange for their servers, etc) 30% in definite sales or losing 100% sales by who knows how many exactly by pushing people this way? Besides that, we have a saying in my language .. "customer is king" .. I believe that's a business lesson not taught there..

When dealing with thousands of different gamers from around the world, each with highly exacting and sometimes conflicting preferences, tolerances, suggestions, and demands? And you have to please all of them with a single product? Yes, it would be difficult to adopt a "the customer is always right" attitude for any large-scale developer. but I can't answer your question, as it's leading, arbitrary, and I am not at liberty to respond to that type of hypothetical choice. Again, you are at a distinct advantage in this context.

It has not slipt my mind at all, I'm just saying that I wish you were as easy going with giving me choice when it comes down to Origin considering it's my money. I am just slightly alarmed by your attitude that you do not seem to care whether you make more sales or not. Need I remind you what happened to Ubisoft when they adopted a certain attitude?

I am not here to be a shill. I am here to moderate the thread and try to engage in discussion when I can. I do not have the answers you seek, nor do I have the power to influence the kind of change you are asking for. But I can encourage people to exercise their consumer power, if this subject is indeed the breaking point for them.

If I showed any indication of caring about sales, the community would jump all over me and call me a marketing shill or a corporate yes-man. That may be what you want--a villain you can feel good about railing against--but it'll have to be someone other than me or Chris. We love our community and we know the feeling is reciprocated, but there will be times when we have to disagree on things.

Please do not take this as a personal attack of any sort, I am just concerned the way Bioware is heading, a company I've supported and cherished for a long time, one of the few developers that always stood out for me.

i don't take it as a personal attack, and i appreciate the chance to get to a less rocky ground with you. As long as we have fans like you, I think BioWare will turn out just fine. Just keep telling us where we're going wrong, in your opinion (and let's make it less shouty and more talky, for both our sakes), and we will do what we can to keep making the kinds of game experiences that you and our community want to support.

Again, thank you for your comments.

This was very nice and respectful.  Thank you.  We know you don't have the answers and don't expect you to -- it just seem to be taking so long for any answers from EA and people (at least me) want to make an informed decision before I keep or cancel for pre-order at Gamestop.  Thanks again.  It's very much appreciated.