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Origin and Mass Effect 3


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#801
MysterD

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LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

Steam is half the problem. Steam is why Origin exists in the first place. People need to quit apologizing for Steam, cause guess what? It's a required client as well.


Yea thats a good scapegoat.

Steam doesn't make me feel dirty using it.  You can sprout this "all DRM is bad" nonesense all you want Steam can hardly be considered DRM in any sense as far as I'm conserned.



What's wrong with buying and owning a game without a client?

Steam is one of the first services to say "you are required to install our client."  I don't want their advertisements, or their DRM requirements. I don't want anything to do with them.

Game sellers do not need to do this.  What do I want? The game. I shouldn't obligated to anything else.


Welcome to the future of gaming.
As much as I hate Origin right now its not going away.  Nor do I expect it to.  You either have to accept that or enjoy very limited amount of games.


Pretty much , though I believe onlive is the future.

Onlive is NOT the future, as far as I'm conerned. Not everybody in the world is going to have very fast Internet connections and crazy allowed transfer rates for data. I should be allowed to store and install my game on my own HDD. Cloud Gaming should be an ADDITIONAL OPTION, not a requirement.

I'll take Origin, G4WL, and Steam over OnLive any day.

#802
LOST SPARTANJLC

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photographerleia wrote...

BaronIveagh wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

I am not here to be a shill. I am here to moderate the thread and try to engage in discussion when I can. I do not have the answers you seek, nor do I have the power to influence the kind of change you are asking for. But I can encourage people to exercise their consumer power, if this subject is indeed the breaking point for them.


Stanley, you and I have had discussions in the past about strange design choices and executive meddling, and I apoligize for my collegues attitude.  I am aware that you are not in a position to make decisions, and these come down from EA executives so far removed from the sharp end of game design that they might as well be on another continent. 

The issue is that the gamers care about bioware and it's success, and are frustraited by what appears to be a very, very bad move in the works (apocalyptically bad).  While I joke about ME3 having a 'Most Pirated Game of the Year' edition comming soon, I would prefer that it was not thus. 

EA doesn't seem to understand that Steam was made successful by a large number of companies all 'buying in' as it were, not simply Valve going it alone.  Even Microsoft had several companies work with them for Windows Live.  EA is big, but it's not Microsoft big, and buy forcing people to do something they do not wish to do, they're alienating customers and drving them toward competing products.


Well I do not like what I hear in his last post, but his tone was certainly respectful and he said just about as much as you would expect him to be able to say.  As angry as I am at Bioware/EA, that anger lies with those who have the ability to make the right decision but choose not to.  As we know that Stanley does not fall into that camp, I atleast appreciate the tone of what he has to say even if I do not care for the actual words.


And that's all he can do , until somebody wakes up and decides that's have an alternative for origins.

#803
photographerleia

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Rockworm503 wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...



Pretty much , though I believe onlive is the future.


That scares me more than Origin.

Agreed. As someone always looking at longterm consequences and longterm access, cloud gaming is a terrifying prospect ... and not just becaue I'm old fashioned.

#804
LOST SPARTANJLC

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[/quote]
Onlive is NOT the future, as far as I'm conerned. Not everybody in the world is going to have very fast Internet connections and crazy allowed transfer rates for data. I should be allowed to store and install my game on my own HDD. Cloud Gaming should be an ADDITIONAL OPTION, not a requirement.

I'll take Origin, G4WL, and Steam over OnLive any day.

[/quote]

I do too , but I can't ignore the fact that onlive has been doing quite well since it's rocky start.

#805
Snake Vargas

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EternalAmbiguity wrote...

1. BW did not say "Yeah, EA, you can use Origin for ME3." EA said, "You're using Origin for ME3." BW is a subsidiary, they aren't in charge.

2. They obviously consider the PC market important enough to develop a download distribustion client for it, and push it in their games. Thus, if the PC market snubs its nose at Origin, EA will rethink Origin. (maybe not remove it, but definitely rethink)


1. It may be the case that EA told Bioware that they had to use Origin. It is obviously the case that Bioware did not say to EA, "Hey, ya know, we just developed the biggest MMO since WoW for you guys... and we kinda own to major IPs (Dragon Age & Mass Effect), and we don't want to screw our customers over this time." The relationship between publisher and developer is not the same as the relationship between boss and employee, especially when the developer is as valuable an asset as Bioware. There is no reason to suppose that Bioware is not entirely complicit in foisting Origin on their customers.

2. Origin doesn't demonstrate that EA/Bioware thinks the PC market is important, and it especially doesn't demonstrate that they think the PC market is important in the sense that they are actually concerned with providing good service to their PC customers (which is what was claimed by the OP). Rather it demonstrates that EA/Bioware thinks that there is some money to be made in the PC market, and it demonstrates that they want to attempt to force their customers into giving them a share of the DD money, rather than providing them with a quality service.

It is, of course, Bioware's right to treat their customers as if we are machines programed only to give them money. Just as it's my right to say, "No thanks."

#806
LOST SPARTANJLC

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photographerleia wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...



Pretty much , though I believe onlive is the future.


That scares me more than Origin.

Agreed. As someone always looking at longterm consequences and longterm access, cloud gaming is a terrifying prospect ... and not just becaue I'm old fashioned.


I wouldn't be surprised if onlive had steam , origins , sony , microsoft and nintendo in one thing.

#807
shepskisaac

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Stanley Woo wrote...

Thank you, and i appreciate all the support I and BioWare have gotten in this thread.

You & BioWare only of course, not EA. I very much supported EA in 2008/2010 when cared deeply about the quality of their games, when they took "No DRM - free DLC for legitimate/new users!" approach to both PC market & used market. EA worked hard to regain the trust of gamers and succeeded in it to a great degree. Nowadays, it's like EA forgot about that completly.

Modifié par IsaacShep, 17 janvier 2012 - 02:51 .


#808
MysterD

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[quote]LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

[quote]MysterD wrote:
Onlive is NOT the future, as far as I'm conerned. Not everybody in the world is going to have very fast Internet connections and crazy allowed transfer rates for data. I should be allowed to store and install my game on my own HDD. Cloud Gaming should be an ADDITIONAL OPTION, not a requirement.

I'll take Origin, G4WL, and Steam over OnLive any day.

[/quote]

I do too , but I can't ignore the fact that onlive has been doing quite well since it's rocky start.

[/quote]
[/quote]

Oh, no - I'm not ignoring OnLive; you're right, they're beginning to get a following.
I just don't like the idea of Cloud Gaming as a requirement.

If OnLive supported local PC gaming AND the additional Cloud Gaming option, I think they'd be onto something.

Until then, I think Steam, Origin, G4WL, and other DD services seem to know where PC gaming is at.

Modifié par MysterD, 17 janvier 2012 - 02:53 .


#809
wolfsite

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IsaacShep wrote...

eqzitara wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...
DLC sales on Origin or BioWare's own store?


Xbox live, steam games, ps3. Who offers dlc sales? They wait for the sequel before giving discounts if they bother.

Lul what? All 3 offer multiple DLC sales throughout the year including new DLCs for new games. It's EA that never offers any DLC sales for PC gamers.


They had a DLC sale about a week or two ago on Origin (50%) plus some games like Shift 2 have free DLC available.

#810
Dragoonlordz

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photographerleia wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Pretty much , though I believe onlive is the future.


That scares me more than Origin.

Agreed. As someone always looking at longterm consequences and longterm access, cloud gaming is a terrifying prospect ... and not just becaue I'm old fashioned.


Your far from alone in this regard, cloud in general is truly scary for one simple reason more important then gaming or Origin by a million miles. Simple fact of hacking, if you think storing your address and phone number maybe even your credit card online which if get taken are an annoyance but fixable with calls to credit card companies and more. Imagine having all your work stolen on top of your details. It is where the consumer ends up on masse having to suffer what game developers feel right now. Piracy and theft of your work not just details.

Personally I hope cloud goes away before reaches that stage. 

Anyway's thats kind of off topic so I'll leave it there.

#811
LOST SPARTANJLC

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[quote]MysterD wrote...

[quote][quote]LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

[/quote]
Onlive is NOT the future, as far as I'm conerned. Not everybody in the world is going to have very fast Internet connections and crazy allowed transfer rates for data. I should be allowed to store and install my game on my own HDD. Cloud Gaming should be an ADDITIONAL OPTION, not a requirement.

I'll take Origin, G4WL, and Steam over OnLive any day.

[/quote]

I do too , but I can't ignore the fact that onlive has been doing quite well since it's rocky start.

[/quote]

Oh, no - I'm not ignoring OnLive; you're right, they're beginning to get a following.
I just don't like the idea of Cloud Gaming as a requirement.

If OnLive supported local PC gaming AND the additional Cloud Gaming option, I think they'd be onto something.

Until then, I think Steam, Origin, G4WL, and other DD services seem to know where PC gaming is at.
[/quote]

Well I think that could be possible , orgin's and steam have an offline/local feature.The only would of course be the whole connection problem.

#812
shepskisaac

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wolfsite wrote...

They had a DLC sale about a week or two ago on Origin (50%)

No, that sale specifically didn't include points you use to buy DLC.

#813
2late2die

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I just wanted to give my 2 cents because I've been a long BioWare fan and I'm not liking where things are heading.

It was an unfortunate decision by EA to block ME3 from Steam. Heck, it was an unfortunate decision to block any EA games from Steam, period. Nobody is buying EA's excuses in that regard, it is patently obvious to anyone who's even a little bit familiar with EA what this is exactly.

Due to this attitude, EA already lost $60 on me for BF3, and will lose at least another $140 for ME3 deluxe edition and Kingdom of Amalur. And I know I'm not the only on whom EA will be losing money because of this. It is unfortunate that BioWare has been caught in the middle of this as I think they're still making some of the best games out there.

The irony of it all is that I don't even have anything against Origin itself, and if EA, instead of blocking its games from Steam, simply offered better deals on them I would've bough them on Origin. In addition to Steam I use Impulse, GoG and D2D - I go where the deals are. I do not however support publishers who feel that the best way to attract more customers is by bully tactics.

#814
wolfsite

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IsaacShep wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

They had a DLC sale about a week or two ago on Origin (50%)

No, that sale specifically didn't include points you use to buy DLC.


I bought the DLC right off of Origin.  $2.50 for each DLC normally $5.00

#815
Pupuppu

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SirLysander wrote...
The context in which the statistics were posted leads to an inference of "Look what the Origin Announcement caused!"


The decline of presales for the PC began around the beginning of this year. Until that point PC and PS3 were almost at the same level, sometimes with even more presales on the PC. In the week after the 1st of January physical PC Sales began to fall at a steady level to almost non existing, while the PS3 showed an opposite linear trend. XBOX sales at the same time skyrocketed.
No idea if this has to do with some preoder-bonuses announcments, Origin accusations or money people got at christmas:whistle:

#816
LOST SPARTANJLC

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Dragoonlordz wrote...

photographerleia wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Pretty much , though I believe onlive is the future.


That scares me more than Origin.

Agreed. As someone always looking at longterm consequences and longterm access, cloud gaming is a terrifying prospect ... and not just becaue I'm old fashioned.


Your far from alone in this regard, cloud in general is truly scary for one simple reason more important then gaming or Origin by a million miles. Simple fact of hacking, if you think storing your address and phone number maybe even your credit card online which if get taken are an annoyance but fixable with calls to credit card companies and more. Imagine having all your work stolen on top of your details. It is where the consumer ends up on masse having to suffer what game developers feel right now. Piracy and theft of your work not just details.

Personally I hope cloud goes away before reaches that stage. 

Anyway's thats kind of off topic so I'll leave it there.


Yeah , their are some positives to the whole thing , but the I don't pay one month and their goes all my games until I pay(=scary!).

#817
apixaez

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I can agree with you only up to a point. Your "trust" scenario works very well in large-scale, but has less effect when dealing with our online community, and very little effect at all when you're talking about me and you exchanging messages like this. You are at a distinct advantage when talking about fanbase trust in this context.


Yes and no, I guess I was meaning to say that if you show you care for the individual or smaller groups, it automaticly helps in the larger picture as "people like to talk", if you catch my drift.

When dealing with thousands of different gamers from around the world, each with highly exacting and sometimes conflicting preferences, tolerances, suggestions, and demands? And you have to please all of them with a single product? Yes, it would be difficult to adopt a "the customer is always right" attitude for any large-scale developer. but I can't answer your question, as it's leading, arbitrary, and I am not at liberty to respond to that type of hypothetical choice. Again, you are at a distinct advantage in this context.


I can understand where you're coming from yes, but I also believe steam has proven enough that it is a "certainty" to provide income. And that more than enough people have voiced their concerns about Origin, thus making it a sound business move to provide it there. Plus it makes at least a portion of people happy having a game they look forward to be made available on their favourite service. But like you said, speculation and not much we can do about that (currently).

I am not here to be a shill. I am here to moderate the thread and try to engage in discussion when I can. I do not have the answers you seek, nor do I have the power to influence the kind of change you are asking for. But I can encourage people to exercise their consumer power, if this subject is indeed the breaking point for them.

If I showed any indication of caring about sales, the community would jump all over me and call me a marketing shill or a corporate yes-man. That may be what you want--a villain you can feel good about railing against--but it'll have to be someone other than me or Chris. We love our community and we know the feeling is reciprocated, but there will be times when we have to disagree on things.


Trust me I'm not here to paint you off as a villain or a shill. Like I said in a previous post we're all in this together and talking and making compromises is always the way forward. As goes for mutual respect. I just wish it had more of an influence and I guess it's just the feel of powerlessness which is inciting such a strong reaction as the higher ups are pushing for something what seemingly the majority of people do not want.

i don't take it as a personal attack, and i appreciate the chance to get to a less rocky ground with you. As long as we have fans like you, I think BioWare will turn out just fine. Just keep telling us where we're going wrong, in your opinion (and let's make it less shouty and more talky, for both our sakes), and we will do what we can to keep making the kinds of game experiences that you and our community want to support.

Again, thank you for your comments.


I'm sorry if I came across aggressively, this was certainly not my intent, but like I said I guess it's mostly just frustration and being a BW representative I guess you pose an easy "target". I guess all there is to find out then is if sandboxing would be considered circumventing the DRM and is a bannable offense.

Thank you for your time and replies however.

#818
shepskisaac

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wolfsite wrote...

I bought the DLC right off of Origin.  $2.50 for each DLC normally $5.00

Which game? Becuase new EA games all use points that never go on sale.

#819
Guest_EternalAmbiguity_*

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Snake Vargas wrote...
1. It may be the case that EA told Bioware that they had to use Origin. It is obviously the case that Bioware did not say to EA, "Hey, ya know, we just developed the biggest MMO since WoW for you guys... and we kinda own to major IPs (Dragon Age & Mass Effect), and we don't want to screw our customers over this time." The relationship between publisher and developer is not the same as the relationship between boss and employee, especially when the developer is as valuable an asset as Bioware. There is no reason to suppose that Bioware is not entirely complicit in foisting Origin on their customers.

2. Origin doesn't demonstrate that EA/Bioware thinks the PC market is important, and it especially doesn't demonstrate that they think the PC market is important in the sense that they are actually concerned with providing good service to their PC customers (which is what was claimed by the OP). Rather it demonstrates that EA/Bioware thinks that there is some money to be made in the PC market, and it demonstrates that they want to attempt to force their customers into giving them a share of the DD money, rather than providing them with a quality service.

It is, of course, Bioware's right to treat their customers as if we are machines programed only to give them money. Just as it's my right to say, "No thanks."


1. I disagree. I feel that the owner has complete power, but there's no real "evidence" of this or the opposite position so there's no resolution there.

2. I think a whole lot of work and money went into Origin. They wouldn't create a separate distribution client merely for "some" money. They think that it's a valuable market. Note, I'm not saying that they think they really have to provide "quality service," but I don't think they'll ignore sigbificant negative feedback.

#820
LOST SPARTANJLC

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Pupuppu wrote...

SirLysander wrote...
The context in which the statistics were posted leads to an inference of "Look what the Origin Announcement caused!"


The decline of presales for the PC began around the beginning of this year. Until that point PC and PS3 were almost at the same level, sometimes with even more presales on the PC. In the week after the 1st of January physical PC Sales began to fall at a steady level to almost non existing, while the PS3 showed an opposite linear trend. XBOX sales at the same time skyrocketed.
No idea if this has to do with some preoder-bonuses announcments, Origin accusations or money people got at christmas:whistle:


I think the 360 skyrockting is due to the ease of use for live.

#821
wolfsite

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IsaacShep wrote...

wolfsite wrote...

I bought the DLC right off of Origin.  $2.50 for each DLC normally $5.00

Which game? Becuase new EA games all use points that never go on sale.


Mass Effect and Mirror's Edge.  However your orignal post stated they never have DLC sales or offer additional content, I was merely pointing that the do.

#822
Zanallen

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Snake Vargas wrote...

1. It may be the case that EA told Bioware that they had to use Origin. It is obviously the case that Bioware did not say to EA, "Hey, ya know, we just developed the biggest MMO since WoW for you guys... and we kinda own to major IPs (Dragon Age & Mass Effect), and we don't want to screw our customers over this time." The relationship between publisher and developer is not the same as the relationship between boss and employee, especially when the developer is as valuable an asset as Bioware. There is no reason to suppose that Bioware is not entirely complicit in foisting Origin on their customers.


Ah, there is your problem. EA and Bioware don't have a publisher/developer relationship. EA owns Bioware in its entirety. For all intents and purposes, Bioware is just the RPG branch of EA.

#823
Dragoonlordz

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LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

photographerleia wrote...

Rockworm503 wrote...

LOST SPARTANJLC wrote...

Pretty much , though I believe onlive is the future.


That scares me more than Origin.

Agreed. As someone always looking at longterm consequences and longterm access, cloud gaming is a terrifying prospect ... and not just becaue I'm old fashioned.


Your far from alone in this regard, cloud in general is truly scary for one simple reason more important then gaming or Origin by a million miles. Simple fact of hacking, if you think storing your address and phone number maybe even your credit card online which if get taken are an annoyance but fixable with calls to credit card companies and more. Imagine having all your work stolen on top of your details. It is where the consumer ends up on masse having to suffer what game developers feel right now. Piracy and theft of your work not just details.

Personally I hope cloud goes away before reaches that stage. 

Anyway's thats kind of off topic so I'll leave it there.


Yeah , their are some positives to the whole thing , but the I don't pay one month and their goes all my games until I pay(=scary!).


I assume you refer to the part highlighted in bold with regard to your response, but the way I see the situation regarding what I said and your follow up comment is; loss of entertainment is one thing, loss of work which keeps roof over head and food in belly is far worse in my example I was talking about. If I misunderstood your intentions or what you may have been reffering to then I apologise. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 17 janvier 2012 - 03:00 .


#824
AlanC9

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MysterD wrote...

Onlive is NOT the future, as far as I'm conerned. Not everybody in the world is going to have very fast Internet connections and crazy allowed transfer rates for data.


Itals mine. Not everybody will have those things. But the vast majority will.

I should be allowed to store and install my game on my own HDD. Cloud Gaming should be an ADDITIONAL OPTION, not a requirement.


The problem is that there's no legal mechanism fo force EA to release games the way you want rather than the way they want.

#825
Mitchumas

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I have a few questions...

1. I want to know why Origin was not made optional to those who have brought a retail copy or to those who have no interest on playing ME3 MP?

Don’t give me the verifying lame excuses or the DLC excuse either, DAO and DAII, ME2 all had CD verification and a different DLC, what was wrong with that?

2. Is this the future of how EA games are going to go?

Because if it is, then is this how EA rewards the years of loyalty people have given, by forcing them to use a lame 3rd party client that is not even needed for single player games?

3. Is there a hope that Origin will be made optional in the future?

4. Is EA trying to accommodate more for poxy console gamers than it is for PC Gamers? If not, then why make it more difficult for the ones that made EA be in the first place?

Without the support of all the PC gamers EA has had over the years, EA would have never got the attention or got to the size it has today

5. Do EA have a problem with their customers? Do they not take notice of the feed back? Do they not hear the disregard people have for a client such as Origin?

I’ve seen, used and removed Origin, what a waste of time it was, a very unfriendly user interface, that for some reason it opens up in a browser page. Half the time I had to download additional plug-in's before I could even play single player and even then, some of the time I couldn’t even get into single player mode...Why would people want to waste their time with it??