3659 réponses à ce sujet

[Docjam]

[quote]

[quote]Docjam wrote...

Having read posts from Chris and Mr. Woo on the subject, I've come to the conclusion that Bioware doesn't give a rip about their customers anymore, EA isn't the only one to blame here. Bioware seems just as bent on stuffing origin down our throats whether we want it or not, and they apparently take their customers for granted since they don't seem to care that people won't buy their game. Literally taking having millions of customers for granted if they blatantly disregard the thousands of customers they lose in this move. They assume they can push any product, with any strings attached, and they will still get millions of customers. That's taking your fans for granted folks, that's not trying to maintain a positive relationship with your fanbase, that's not being good to your fanbase. That's disregarding them and just taking their money. The integrity of this company at this point in time is wholly shot. Next step: Pure, unadulterated customer ABUSE.

So I don't care about Bioware anymore, [inappropriate comments removed][/quote]

How ? , Bioware doesn't have a choice in the matter.All they did was try to make the thrid installment to a game loved by many.They've even came out and told you most of the information , before you purchase the game in march.If that isn't being upfront and caring.Go on to Capcom Unity forums and see how their treated by capcom as far as megaman and devil may cry.

[/quote]

Actually that's a good example of the next step for Bioware, Capcom took their customers for granted years ago, and now they simply abuse their customers.  Bioware is disregarding unsatisfied customers and taking their customers for granted.  The next step is abusing their customers (EA has been abusing their customers for over a decade, they've always taken their customers for granted)

Bioware used to care about their customers.  It's evident that they do not anymore.

[quote edited to remove my name from a quote that's not mine]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 17 janvier 2012 - 07:10 .

[GirlPower23]

Sofia Lamb wrote...

I was also talking about their "genius" idea of publishing the full name of anyone that posted on their messageboards. 

Yet Blizzard listened to their fans and didn't do it. They also were going to make the cross realm invite system paid for.. and yet again listened to their fans and did not go ahead with it. This is what we call "Listening" to fans and giving them the best experience possible, this is not giving random PR COmments like "It's out of our hands" or "We want the best experience possible" but then go to say "We don't want to hear it."  Unfortunately I don't know what BiOWare have attempted to do or not to do. What I do know is they aren't giving their customers the best experience. They are making a lot of fans unhappy. Whether that's through the usage of Origin or ignoring Steam. 

Modifié par GirlPower23, 17 janvier 2012 - 06:42 .

[Dragoonlordz]

jamesp81 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Docjam wrote...

Having read posts from Chris and Mr. Woo on the subject, I've come to the conclusion that Bioware doesn't give a rip about their customers anymore, EA isn't the only one to blame here. Bioware seems just as bent on stuffing origin down our throats whether we want it or not, and they apparently take their customers for granted since they don't seem to care that people won't buy their game. Literally taking having millions of customers for granted if they blatantly disregard the thousands of customers they lose in this move. They assume they can push any product, with any strings attached, and they will still get millions of customers. That's taking your fans for granted folks, that's not trying to maintain a positive relationship with your fanbase, that's not being good to your fanbase. That's disregarding them and just taking their money. The integrity of this company at this point in time is wholly shot. Next step: Pure, unadulterated customer ABUSE.

So I don't care about Bioware anymore, [inappropriate comments removed]

How ? , Bioware doesn't have a choice in the matter.All they did was try to make the thrid installment to a game loved by many.They've even came out and told you most of the information , before you purchase the game in march.If that isn't being upfront and caring.Go on to Capcom Unity forums and see how their treated by capcom as far as megaman and devil may cry.

I am aware that Bioware doesn't have a choice.  There's nothing I can personally do about that.  I still will not permit the Origin client to be installed on my system which, by extension, means I will be unable to buy ME3.  I'm genuinely unhappy that that harms Bioware, because I've enjoyed playing their games.

Which it becomes an issue of immovable object and an unstoppable force. you say you will not have Origin, but EA through the medium of Bioware and then through Chris has stated ME3 will have Origin and it will not change it's mind on this. This leaves the only remaining two things one of which is express dissapointment which is fine if done with calm head and polite in manner [which you have done] and then one last option which Stanley mentioned many pages ago. You have to make a choice whether your immovable principles are subject to change and purchase the game or stick by them and do not purchase the game.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 17 janvier 2012 - 06:42 .

[Bogsnot1]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Bogsnot1 wrote...

I have a perfectly legitimate question.

Will talk of running Origin in a sandboxed, or virtual machine environment get us banned by CP?

For some reason, your "Community Liason" seems to think that running untrusted software in either one of these environments counts as "copyright circumvention", and he bans those who discuss it.

Whether legitimate question or not your wording implies more a wish to 'provoke' a response. If you do not come at someone in a hostile manner you are more likely to recieve a response.

Of course I wish to provoke a response. That is the entire point of asking a question.

I would strongly suggest you take a course in language skills, as not only have you successfully misinterpreted my tone, but you have, either willingly, or unwillingly, completely misunderstood the entire context of peoples mistrust with Origin. You misunderstood the legal nuances of the EULA, its wording, and its terminology.

Yes, I get it, you have tested it, and you now trust it to do what it should. Most still dont trust it because of how the EULA is worded, worded in such a way that it gives carte blanche access to your PC should EA decide to go back to its old habits of data mining.

Your words, and actions, are currently painting you as nothing more than an EA shill who is trying (poorly) to assauage the fears of those who are concerned about Origin.

[jamesp81]

AlanC9 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
I am trying not to be contrary, but I'm appalled EA would release such a statement and expect those of us who write software for a living to not notice.

People who write software for a living aren't a big fraction of the customer base, last time I checked.

A great many software developers are PC gamers, far more so than most other professions.  Software developers are overrepresented compared to the general population among the ranks of PC gamers.  EA's PR department clearly didn't take that into account.

[jamesp81]

Docjam wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Docjam wrote...

Having read posts from Chris and Mr. Woo on the subject, I've come to the conclusion that Bioware doesn't give a rip about their customers anymore, EA isn't the only one to blame here. Bioware seems just as bent on stuffing origin down our throats whether we want it or not, and they apparently take their customers for granted since they don't seem to care that people won't buy their game. Literally taking having millions of customers for granted if they blatantly disregard the thousands of customers they lose in this move. They assume they can push any product, with any strings attached, and they will still get millions of customers. That's taking your fans for granted folks, that's not trying to maintain a positive relationship with your fanbase, that's not being good to your fanbase. That's disregarding them and just taking their money. The integrity of this company at this point in time is wholly shot. Next step: Pure, unadulterated customer ABUSE.

So I don't care about Bioware anymore, [inappropriate comments removed]

How ? , Bioware doesn't have a choice in the matter.All they did was try to make the thrid installment to a game loved by many.They've even came out and told you most of the information , before you purchase the game in march.If that isn't being upfront and caring.Go on to Capcom Unity forums and see how their treated by capcom as far as megaman and devil may cry.

Actually that's a good example of the next step for Bioware, Capcom took their customers for granted years ago, and now they simply abuse their customers.  Bioware is disregarding unsatisfied customers and taking their customers for granted.  The next step is abusing their customers (EA has been abusing their customers for over a decade, they've always taken their customers for granted)

Bioware used to care about their customers.  It's evident that they do not anymore.

I don't really think Bioware is to blame for all of this.  It's not really up to them, at the end of the day.  EA runs the show.

[kofelover]

GirlPower23 wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...


I think you are right unless Valve and EA can come to an arrangement it is very much the case. Valve needs EA's titles more than EA needs Valve and that is why Gabe recently said in an interview he is trying to get EA to allow EA's title on Steam because Ea produce some of the biggest games out each year and Steam is desperate to have them on it's shelves. It is about money that aspect and anyone who think's otherwise is slightly neive. The biggest problem is he and EA are both stubborn and always bickering. This doesn't mean it will never be on Steam but a deal does have to be worked out that benefits EA more than current terms do. It also depends over time on whether or not EA wishes their long term plan rival for DD services should get their titles because that further increase distance between EA and their goals. This is not gospel but this is what makes most sense to me.

QFT

What? Valve needs EA Games? I think you are not understanding what Gabe is saying. The fact that Steam doubled it's growth last year shows they do not need EA Games. What Gabe is saying is they want EA Games on their service and they want to show EA that Steam is the best possible place to sell them. No where did Gabe hint at them desperately needing EA Games. Again, considering they doubled their growth last year. Every year they continue to grow, EA is hardly a requirement for their growth. EA but one publisher in an ocean of publishers. 2k, THQ, Activision, (Hundreds of Indie Devs), Warner Bros, UbiSoft.. you get it.. the list is freaking huge.

[LOST SPARTANJLC]

Heading offline till later today for me but probably tomorrow for everyone else.Somewhat heated debate , but valued points all around.

[jamesp81]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Docjam wrote...

Having read posts from Chris and Mr. Woo on the subject, I've come to the conclusion that Bioware doesn't give a rip about their customers anymore, EA isn't the only one to blame here. Bioware seems just as bent on stuffing origin down our throats whether we want it or not, and they apparently take their customers for granted since they don't seem to care that people won't buy their game. Literally taking having millions of customers for granted if they blatantly disregard the thousands of customers they lose in this move. They assume they can push any product, with any strings attached, and they will still get millions of customers. That's taking your fans for granted folks, that's not trying to maintain a positive relationship with your fanbase, that's not being good to your fanbase. That's disregarding them and just taking their money. The integrity of this company at this point in time is wholly shot. Next step: Pure, unadulterated customer ABUSE.

So I don't care about Bioware anymore, [inappropriate comments removed]

How ? , Bioware doesn't have a choice in the matter.All they did was try to make the thrid installment to a game loved by many.They've even came out and told you most of the information , before you purchase the game in march.If that isn't being upfront and caring.Go on to Capcom Unity forums and see how their treated by capcom as far as megaman and devil may cry.

I am aware that Bioware doesn't have a choice.  There's nothing I can personally do about that.  I still will not permit the Origin client to be installed on my system which, by extension, means I will be unable to buy ME3.  I'm genuinely unhappy that that harms Bioware, because I've enjoyed playing their games.

Which it becomes an issue of immovable object and an unstoppable force. you say you will not have Origin, but EA through the medium of Bioware and then through Chris has stated ME3 will have Origin and it will not change it's mind on this. This leaves the only remaining two things one of which is express dissapointment which is fine if done with calm head and polite in manner [which you have done] and then one last option which Stanley mentioned many pages ago. You have to make a choice whether your immovable principles are subject to change and purchase the game or stick by them and do not purchase the game.

Until it's available on Steam or as a physical copy without Origin, it's a no purchase.

[Dragoonlordz]

Docjam wrote...

Bioware used to care about their customers.  It's evident that they do not anymore.

What springs to mind is the old adage "You can't please everyone, all of the time". It is not nice when you do not get what is you desire, but if hold someone to ransom over your desires whether be by threats or character assassination it makes people wonder if it was a marriage of convenience to begin with. This may not be the case with yourself I cannot say other than it becomes impression.

[This following part doesn't refer to you personally]

I often wonder how many people who say they support Bioware which base that on buying their products actually just buy their products because their products are good and support is by proxy rather than intention...

[Bogsnot1]

jamesp81 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...
I am trying not to be contrary, but I'm appalled EA would release such a statement and expect those of us who write software for a living to not notice.

People who write software for a living aren't a big fraction of the customer base, last time I checked.

A great many software developers are PC gamers, far more so than most other professions.  Software developers are overrepresented compared to the general population among the ranks of PC gamers.  EA's PR department clearly didn't take that into account.

Not to mention a great quantity of PC gamers actually work in the IT industry, in some form of support role, so something as woefully abhorent as Origin sets off alarm bells not only amongst the IT workers, but for all of their friends and family as well.

[Ashendark]

This is really sad I give Origin a year until they disappear. I was really looking forward to purchasing this game.. oh well I still plan on playing it..

[GirlPower23]

Sofia Lamb wrote...

A lot of fans? I do not believe the Origin debacle has reached the heights of the Blizzard incident, or even the orginal Mass Effect's DRM. But we shall see.

Most anywhere you go you'll see someone unhappy about Origin and No Steam. It's pretty awful. It's not the majority, but nor were the Blizzard incidents. Remember it's always the vocal minority that gets thing's changed not the "Oh well crowd."

[Docjam]

jamesp81 wrote...

Docjam wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

Docjam wrote...

Having read posts from Chris and Mr. Woo on the subject, I've come to the conclusion that Bioware doesn't give a rip about their customers anymore, EA isn't the only one to blame here. Bioware seems just as bent on stuffing origin down our throats whether we want it or not, and they apparently take their customers for granted since they don't seem to care that people won't buy their game. Literally taking having millions of customers for granted if they blatantly disregard the thousands of customers they lose in this move. They assume they can push any product, with any strings attached, and they will still get millions of customers. That's taking your fans for granted folks, that's not trying to maintain a positive relationship with your fanbase, that's not being good to your fanbase. That's disregarding them and just taking their money. The integrity of this company at this point in time is wholly shot. Next step: Pure, unadulterated customer ABUSE.

So I don't care about Bioware anymore, [inappropriate comments removed]

How ? , Bioware doesn't have a choice in the matter.All they did was try to make the thrid installment to a game loved by many.They've even came out and told you most of the information , before you purchase the game in march.If that isn't being upfront and caring.Go on to Capcom Unity forums and see how their treated by capcom as far as megaman and devil may cry.

Actually that's a good example of the next step for Bioware, Capcom took their customers for granted years ago, and now they simply abuse their customers.  Bioware is disregarding unsatisfied customers and taking their customers for granted.  The next step is abusing their customers (EA has been abusing their customers for over a decade, they've always taken their customers for granted)

Bioware used to care about their customers.  It's evident that they do not anymore.

I don't really think Bioware is to blame for all of this.  It's not really up to them, at the end of the day.  EA runs the show.

I'm going by Chris Priestly and Stanley Woo's posts which have an attitude of: "We don't care if you don't buy our game, we no longer have to appeal to our fans, we have a house hold brand name and will sell millions of copies on that alone, no matter what we do.  So go ahead, don't buy our game, fan for a decade or not, we won't miss you, you're just a few bucks in our pocket at the end of the day.".

That is why I say Bioware is just as much to blame as EA in this.

[Dragoonlordz]

jamesp81 wrote...

Until it's available on Steam or as a physical copy without Origin, it's a no purchase.

That is fair enough. 

[Dragoonlordz]

jreezy wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

I don't really think Bioware is to blame for all of this.  It's not really up to them, at the end of the day.  EA runs the show.

I wish more people understood this.

Ditto. Bioware make the product [ME3], EA hold very much the reins on it's distribution.

[Ravenknight]

GirlPower23 wrote...

Sofia Lamb wrote...

A lot of fans? I do not believe the Origin debacle has reached the heights of the Blizzard incident, or even the orginal Mass Effect's DRM. But we shall see.

Most anywhere you go you'll see someone unhappy about Origin and No Steam. It's pretty awful. It's not the majority, but nor were the Blizzard incidents. Remember it's always the vocal minority that gets thing's changed not the "Oh well crowd."

Sqeaky wheel gets the shaft and all.. oh wait..

[jamesp81]

jreezy wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

I don't really think Bioware is to blame for all of this.  It's not really up to them, at the end of the day.  EA runs the show.

I wish more people understood this.

Nevertheless, as long as Origin is required, I won't purchase the game.  Yes, that is bad for Bioware.  I cannot help it that someone over there signed the papers to sell the company to EA.

[Drone223]

jreezy wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

I don't really think Bioware is to blame for all of this.  It's not really up to them, at the end of the day.  EA runs the show.

I wish more people understood this.

Same here

Modifié par Drone223, 17 janvier 2012 - 07:00 .

[Grammarye]

We still haven't had concrete answers on the following, specifically about ME3:

Can the game be played in an entirely offline manner - not 'log in and then go offline', not 'briefly connect', but actually start up the PC offline and play the game offline?

Can the Origin 'service' be uninstalled post-installation & ME3 still played after authentication is complete?

Until I see positive answers to those questions, I won't be getting the game, at least until it sends as little money to EA as possible. I can wait. I'm fairly sure as a paying customer I'm still entitled to wait for three years for the game to be in the bargain basement. My enjoyment of the game is merely put off. EA's revenue, not so much.

I still can't understand why they felt a retrograde step from ME2, which was successful, was necessary.

Modifié par Grammarye, 17 janvier 2012 - 07:05 .

[Zanallen]

Docjam wrote...

I'm going by Chris Priestly and Stanley Woo's posts which have an attitude of: "We don't care if you don't buy our game, we no longer have to appeal to our fans, we have a house hold brand name and will sell millions of copies on that alone, no matter what we do.  So go ahead, don't buy our game, fan for a decade or not, we won't miss you, you're just a few bucks in our pocket at the end of the day.".

That is why I say Bioware is just as much to blame as EA in this.

Neither Mr. Woo nor Mr. Priestly said that. What was said is that, ultimately, it is up to you to decide if you want to purchase the game or not. They have said that ME3 is going to use Origin, which is something no one at Bioware has control over. They have said that it is not their place to try and change your mind about the game, which is great since you are an adult and make up your own mind. And really, if either of them came in and asked you to buy ME3 in spite of Origin, they would be accused of being shills or corporate bootlickers who are trying to get their fans to place EA spyware on their computers or some such nonsense.

[Dragoonlordz]

Drone223 wrote...

EA is the one doing the publishing

You kind of wonder if the term EA is a 'publisher' somehow became irrelvant on this to some people. Unlike Bioware being able to go to third party publishers and fish around for best deal then pick and choose, they cannot as EA owns Bioware. Bioware's hand are tied all they can do is ask EA to do something and they have done that, EA's response was as Chris has told people "ME3 will come with Origin and this will not change". In the end EA decides how the game is sold to the customers.

If wish to hate Bioware then do it for reasons within their control to a point which is the game itself, how it plays upon when it is released. How it is distributed to the customer who will purchase is on the shoulders of the publisher in this case EA. No amount of ripping into Bioware employee's or Bioware in general will change this. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 17 janvier 2012 - 07:09 .

[photographerleia]

Stanley Woo wrote...

I respect your position and admire your determination. i also hold out the hope that some of those who choose not to buy due to Origin will have cause to change their minds, and that they remain within our community to keep talking to us.

I respect what you say, and if we are given cause to change out minds, we will.  That cause, would be the removal of Origin (or the option to not install Origin) for retail, SP.  We are reasonable beings, and right now I would go for a patch release a couple months late that removes the need for Origin install.  But until then I stand firm in my resolve.  I have done it for years now regarding draconian DRM/mandatory clients, and have lost out on some good games I would have loved to play.  In the end though, I was able to still look at myself in the mirror and that is what matters.  One cannot, after all, protest mandatory clients and draconian DRM on one hand, and then in thier right minds purchase/play the games with said clients/DRM on the other.

Modifié par photographerleia, 17 janvier 2012 - 07:09 .