3659 réponses à ce sujet

[Pcmag1]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

I'm not buying it anyway because of origin. But here's a question to Mr Chris as he says he wants to answer them...

What happens if the copy of Origin that is available on release of Mass Effect 3 is a much more "easy to swallow" version that doesn't search your PC and gives you all sorts of options to avoid that. Then at a later date it gets patched and becomes more invasive or doesn't work properly. Will I have to install and agree to the new version or render the game that I bought unplayable and find that I can't get any DLC without the latest version on my PC ?

Or is the one time activation it ? No updates nothing more my disc has been validated and can now be played on any PC I own for eternity ?

Actually as far as origin EULA goes:
The terms and conditions are subject to change without prior written notice at any time at ORIGIN PC's sole discretion 

Modifié par Pcmag1, 17 janvier 2012 - 10:19 .

[Mitchumas]

Don't know if it's been posted or even matters but this is the full EULA for Origin... dunno if everyones seen it or knows about it but i thought i'd put it up anyways...

https://help.ea.com/...elated-services

[count_4]

Ottemis wrote...
So, them having said that while ME3, as it's looking right now, won't be available on Steam due to circumstances but them working to improve their relationship/understanding with Valve/Steam to make this happen isn't enough?

I mean petition stuff all you want, I'm all for, but it seems quite silly to ask them to do something they're already gunning for, going by what's been said.

Well, yes EA said that. Like they said that Battefield 3 is this close to be released on Steam...3 month ago. 
It's quite obvious what EA is trying to do. They keep their blockbusters away from Steam on purpose. Every other publisher, and even EA themselves with a lot of their games, are  able to come to terms with Valve. The only exception being their biggest titles. What a coincidence...

[Ottemis]

Mitchumas wrote...

Don't know if it's been posted or even matters but this is the full EULA for Origin... dunno if everyones seen it or knows about it but i thought i'd put it up anyways...

https://help.ea.com/...elated-services

That just rendered a bunch of argumentation-points moot in one fell swoop. Nice.
Now we just have to wait for the claims that "THEY LIE!"

count_4 wrote...

Ottemis wrote...
So, them having said that while ME3, as it's looking right now, won't be available on Steam due to circumstances but them working to improve their relationship/understanding with Valve/Steam to make this happen
isn't enough?

I mean petition stuff all you want, I'm all for, but it seems quite silly to ask them to do something they're already
gunning for, going by what's been said.

Well, yes EA said that. Like they said that Battefield 3 is this close to be released on Steam...3 month ago. 
It's quite obvious what EA is trying to do. They keep their blockbusters away from Steam on purpose. Every other publisher, and even EA themselves with a lot of their games, are  able to come to terms with Valve. The only exception being their biggest titles. What a coincidence...

You're 'guessing'. I don't hold much value to guess-work. If you're going to host a petition, be more professional about it.

Modifié par Ottemis, 17 janvier 2012 - 10:26 .

[Ottemis]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

Pcmag1 wrote...

Actually as far as origin EULA goes:
The terms and conditions are subject to change without prior written notice at any time at ORIGIN PC's sole discretion

Guess that means it will happen and once your hooked you're theirs forever and will do as you're told ..

You know, lack of faith in EA is one thing, calling them backstabbing liers every other post (and that's a general observation) is just plain unconstructive. Yeah, I've noticed it too.

Modifié par Ottemis, 17 janvier 2012 - 10:32 .

[Mister Mida]

Ottemis wrote...

Mitchumas wrote...

Don't know if it's been posted or even matters but this is the full EULA for Origin... dunno if everyones seen it or knows about it but i thought i'd put it up anyways...

https://help.ea.com/...elated-services

That just rendered a bunch of argumentation-points moot in one fell swoop. Nice.
Now we just have to wait for the claims that "THEY LIE!"

And how exactly would people points be moot? I'm not reading anything new here.

[xaliqen]

Ottemis wrote...
You're 'guessing'. I don't hold much value to guess-work. If you're going to host a petition, be more professional about it.

What is there besides guess-work when there's no other information to go on?

The options are either to believe the PR department at EA, or arrive at a different conclusion based on the other facts available.  Doesn't this involve guesswork by default?

In any case, I agree that a petition should stick with only the facts, but I don't think it's bad if we try to figure out what's going outside of that context.

[Ottemis]

Mister Mida wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

Mitchumas wrote...

Don't know if it's been posted or even matters but this is the full EULA for Origin... dunno if everyones seen it or knows about it but i thought i'd put it up anyways...

https://help.ea.com/...elated-services

That just rendered a bunch of argumentation-points moot in one fell swoop. Nice.
Now we just have to wait for the claims that "THEY LIE!"

And how exactly would people points be moot? I'm not reading anything new here.

Is that a serious question? Because after having read both threads to a large extend, I don't see how that needs to be asked, sorry.

[count_4]

Ottemis wrote...

You're 'guessing'. I don't hold much value to guess-work. If you're going to host a petition, be more professional about it.

If you tell me where I can find information on how much EA actually tries to bring ME3 to Steam I'll stop guessing.
What do you propose? Waiting until ME3 has launched to be sure if it is released on Steam simultaneously or not? Yeah, not so much.
 See it that way: EA might be pursuing a Steam release. If a lot of people (well, 17 at this time ) are voicing their wish to see it on Steam, EA might pursue harder. Goal accomplished.
If EA manages to bring ME to Steam without any petition, no harm done. If they ignore it, well, then they're just being EA. 
"We won't act on customer wishes unless there's lawyers involved." 

Modifié par count_4, 17 janvier 2012 - 10:37 .

[Mister Mida]

Ottemis wrote...

Mister Mida wrote...

And how exactly would people points be moot? I'm not reading anything new here.

Is that a serious question? Because after having read both threads to a large extend, I don't see how that needs to be asked, sorry.

Don't know about you, but I haven't read everything of the threads. And I'm almost pretty sure the link in question has already been brought up somewhere, be it here or in the previous thread. It's definitely not the first time I've seen people bring it into the discussion.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 17 janvier 2012 - 10:38 .

[Ottemis]

xaliqen wrote...

Ottemis wrote...
You're 'guessing'. I don't hold much value to guess-work. If you're going to host a petition, be more professional about it.

What is there besides guess-work when there's no other information to go on?

The options are either to believe the PR department at EA, or arrive at a different conclusion based on the other facts available.  Doesn't this involve guesswork by default?

In any case, I agree that a petition should stick with only the facts, but I don't think it's bad if we try to figure out what's going outside of that context.

Only way to know is ask them. Otherwise it's just guesswork. Also, it seems to me that half the posters here wouldn't even trust EA if their statements were signed in blood. To that extend, it's looking more and more like it's not so much something EA is speficifically doing or threatening us with, THIS is about all the things we fear they might do, without having grounds to believe they will. While they undoubtedly CAN, so can so many others.

If they tell you they're working on something, your logical conclusion should be they're friggin working on it. They don't owe you details.

As for me, I'm not going to per say question a statement. If I were to, then I'd never trust anyone, whether they deserve it or not. And that's quite a miserable state of being.

Modifié par Ottemis, 17 janvier 2012 - 10:41 .

[Ottemis]

Mister Mida wrote...

Don't know about you, but I haven't read everything of the threads. And I'm almost pretty sure the link in question has already been brought up somewhere, be it here or in the previous thread.

Yes also persistently ignored. Hence.

[Candidate 88766]

Pcmag1 wrote...

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

I'm not buying it anyway because of origin. But here's a question to Mr Chris as he says he wants to answer them...

What happens if the copy of Origin that is available on release of Mass Effect 3 is a much more "easy to swallow" version that doesn't search your PC and gives you all sorts of options to avoid that. Then at a later date it gets patched and becomes more invasive or doesn't work properly. Will I have to install and agree to the new version or render the game that I bought unplayable and find that I can't get any DLC without the latest version on my PC ?

Or is the one time activation it ? No updates nothing more my disc has been validated and can now be played on any PC I own for eternity ?

Actually as far as origin EULA goes:
The terms and conditions are subject to change without prior written notice at any time at ORIGIN PC's sole discretion 

Every EULA had that clause.

When EULA's get updated you have to agree to them again. Someone would notice something fishy and there would be uproar again. EA probably can't be bothered with that.

[count_4]

Ottemis wrote...
Only way to know is ask them.

And we all know the answer: "We're trying.' 
Now what? They were 'trying' with Battlefield 3 as well. It never happened. They actually said TOR would require Origin. Now it doesn't.

[Ottemis]

count_4 wrote...

Ottemis wrote...
Only way to know is ask them.

And we all know the answer: "We're trying.' 
Now what? They were 'trying' with Battlefield 3 as well. It never happened. They actually said TOR would require Origin. Now it doesn't.

Trying means a possibility of failure, doesn't have to mean they didn't try hard enough.
Life's all about compromise, but sometimes the cost is too great, and when it concearns two companies focussed on profit that just makes that statement so much more true. Also so much less something the average person can form a viable opinion on, because we don't have the information for a reason. We don't work there.

As to them saying one game needs Origin then doesn't: TOR does require online registration via an account that is linked to your EA account that IS your Origin login. In the light of claims like these, I've asked Chris Priestly early on in this thread what the authentication will actually entail (asin via Origin or via ingame login like with ME2 etc) so that we'd have a much better idea of how Origin will fit into the equasion.

Modifié par Ottemis, 17 janvier 2012 - 10:48 .

[Mitchumas]

Hey I'm not defending Origin, I used it for BF3, which Has been unistalled and thrown to the back of a cupboard... I wouldn't put origin back on my PC if they paid me too... Had nothing but truble with it and ever since i have heard about the suspected Data Mining of peoples PC's, never again will it be installed back on my PC... I put that link up for people that don't know about the EULA.. for those that haven't seen it... there was nothing there new for me either...

I'm not good at using forums or I would have replied this to the conversation... so sorry if I confused anyone..

[Pcmag1]

Ottemis wrote...

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

Pcmag1 wrote...

Actually as far as origin EULA goes:
The terms and conditions are subject to change without prior written notice at any time at ORIGIN PC's sole discretion

Guess that means it will happen and once your hooked you're theirs forever and will do as you're told ..

You know, lack of faith in EA is one thing, calling them backstabbing liers every other post (and that's a general observation) is just plain unconstructive. Yeah, I've noticed it too.

I for once am really indifferent to motives behind EA. For what I know they could be godsend angels with sole quest to benefit mankind. BUT you are giving them access to your computer, and to your personal data and there is no guarantee that at one point they will just spread it around. I do realize they wont it would be an end of EA if they did but it does make me feel uneasy that thay CAN do it. By agreeing to EULA you are basically signing 50pages long contract where 40 pages are blank and may be filled at later time without your awareness. 
That is the reason why I am uncomfortable. I work on my PC I have lots of personal files here and I do quite a lot to protect my data, but this is like allowing a trojan horse. 
That is why I think it is bad, and that is why I will not purchase ME3. No game however good it is. Is worth such a big pottential security risk. 

[Candidate 88766]

Mitchumas wrote...

Don't know if it's been posted or even matters but this is the full EULA for Origin... dunno if everyones seen it or knows about it but i thought i'd put it up anyways...

https://help.ea.com/...elated-services

'You also agree that EA may combine personal information with technical information about your system and hardware as defined below in Section 2 to allow Origin to ensure that the Application is working properly, to improve its products and services, troubleshoot bugs and otherwise provide excellent service to you.'

...

'In addition to personal information described above in the Consent Declaration as well as information that you provide Origin directly, Origin collects non-personal data such as Application usage statistics (for instance, if and when you experienced unsuccessful installation), operating system (such as service pack, drivers and support DLLs such as DirectX version), information about hardware types as well as CPU information. 
As described above, this information is needed to provide you with excellent, leading edge service.  No information such as pictures, documents or other personal data unrelated to the Application’s performance on your system is accessed or collected.  The collection and use of information by Origin helps ensure that you are able to access your games with as little technical difficulty as possible and are able to enjoy the best experience EA has to offer.'


So the only information they collect is information related to how well Origin and the games on it are running. So its not spyware.

So now the only real arguments against seem to be that it is an annoying hassle or the risk that they might change it back. They won't; firstly, every EULA has a cluse stating it can be changed whenever; secondly, given the backlash from the gaming community the first time around I find amazing that people believe they will do it again. I don't why they originally could collect data, but given how closely Origin will now be watched they aren't going to do it again - it would damage their image far too much to come out and say it isn't spyware and then promptly convert it into spyware.

I'm not saying people shouldn't object to Origin - it is entirely unnecessary - but a boycott seems rather unnecessary now. It was never going to make any difference - as shown by the pre-order figures a few hours ago - and really there is little to protest about with Origin. In its current form it isn'y spyware, and it is never going to be.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 17 janvier 2012 - 10:51 .

[Candidate 88766]

Pcmag1 wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

Pcmag1 wrote...

Actually as far as origin EULA goes:
The terms and conditions are subject to change without prior written notice at any time at ORIGIN PC's sole discretion

Guess that means it will happen and once your hooked you're theirs forever and will do as you're told ..

You know, lack of faith in EA is one thing, calling them backstabbing liers every other post (and that's a general observation) is just plain unconstructive. Yeah, I've noticed it too.

I for once am really indifferent to motives behind EA. For what I know they could be godsend angels with sole quest to benefit mankind. BUT you are giving them access to your computer, and to your personal data and there is no guarantee that at one point they will just spread it around. I do realize they wont it would be an end of EA if they did but it does make me feel uneasy that thay CAN do it. By agreeing to EULA you are basically signing 50pages long contract where 40 pages are blank and may be filled at later time without your awareness. 
That is the reason why I am uncomfortable. I work on my PC I have lots of personal files here and I do quite a lot to protect my data, but this is like allowing a trojan horse. 
That is why I think it is bad, and that is why I will not purchase ME3. No game however good it is. Is worth such a big pottential security risk. 

If they change the EULA you have to agree to it again. They can't make any unoticed changes.

[count_4]

Ottemis wrote...

Trying means a possibility of failure, doesn't have to mean they didn't try hard enough.
Life's all about compromise, but sometimes the cost is too great, and when it concearns two companies focussed on profit that just makes that statement so much more true. Also so much less something the average person can form a viable opinion on, because we don't have the information for a reason. We don't work there.

Like before, what you're saying is true, no doubt about it. 
But still my questions remains: What harm is done in trying to show EA how much we'd like to see something happen (in this case the Steam release)?

Concerning what you said about trust a few posts earlier: All this mistrust from a lot of people doesn't come from nothing.
They didn't wake up this morning, wondering which company they'll dislike today. EA made quite some mistakes the past year, some more capital than others, earning this mistrust. 
Now it's up to them to undo this, which doesn't happen overnight. (Same goes for BioWare but that's a different story.)

Ottemis wrote... 
As to them saying one game needs Origin then doesn't: TOR does require online registration via an account that is linked to your EA account that IS your Origin login 

Which is vastly different from the mandatory use of the client software itself. I have no problem with linking ME3 to my EA account like I did with ME2 and a lot of ther games.

Modifié par count_4, 17 janvier 2012 - 10:56 .

[Ottemis]

Pcmag1 wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

Pcmag1 wrote...

Actually as far as origin EULA goes:
The terms and conditions are subject to change without prior written notice at any time at ORIGIN PC's sole discretion

Guess that means it will happen and once your hooked you're theirs forever and will do as you're told ..

You know, lack of faith in EA is one thing, calling them backstabbing liers every other post (and that's a general observation) is just plain unconstructive. Yeah, I've noticed it too.

I for once am really indifferent to motives behind EA. For what I know they could be godsend angels with sole quest to benefit mankind. BUT you are giving them access to your computer, and to your personal data and there is no guarantee that at one point they will just spread it around. I do realize they wont it would be an end of EA if they did but it does make me feel uneasy that thay CAN do it. By agreeing to EULA you are basically signing 50pages long contract where 40 pages are blank and may be filled at later time without your awareness. 
That is the reason why I am uncomfortable. I work on my PC I have lots of personal files here and I do quite a lot to protect my data, but this is like allowing a trojan horse. 
That is why I think it is bad, and that is why I will not purchase ME3. No game however good it is. Is worth such a big pottential security risk.

I think that's extreme, especially seeing that same level of paranoia can be applied to the internet, as a whole, because i've no mind to list specific examples.  EULA changes pop up, you can disagree to them. Origin is doing the same as a TON of other programs, the only difference here is some actually stopping to think about the potential risk, while normally, MOST people wouldn't.

There's risk when you cross the street, could get run over by a bus. Should that stop you from crossing the street though? I use this comparison because there's potential risk in a TON of things, should that stop us from doing them though when there is no direct reason to believe anything will infact happen.

[Pcmag1]

Candidate 88766 wrote...

Pcmag1 wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

Pcmag1 wrote...

Actually as far as origin EULA goes:
The terms and conditions are subject to change without prior written notice at any time at ORIGIN PC's sole discretion

Guess that means it will happen and once your hooked you're theirs forever and will do as you're told ..

You know, lack of faith in EA is one thing, calling them backstabbing liers every other post (and that's a general observation) is just plain unconstructive. Yeah, I've noticed it too.

I for once am really indifferent to motives behind EA. For what I know they could be godsend angels with sole quest to benefit mankind. BUT you are giving them access to your computer, and to your personal data and there is no guarantee that at one point they will just spread it around. I do realize they wont it would be an end of EA if they did but it does make me feel uneasy that thay CAN do it. By agreeing to EULA you are basically signing 50pages long contract where 40 pages are blank and may be filled at later time without your awareness. 
That is the reason why I am uncomfortable. I work on my PC I have lots of personal files here and I do quite a lot to protect my data, but this is like allowing a trojan horse. 
That is why I think it is bad, and that is why I will not purchase ME3. No game however good it is. Is worth such a big pottential security risk. 

If they change the EULA you have to agree to it again. They can't make any unoticed changes.

Yes, but if I dont agree, than I will have lost access to my game.

[abaris]

Ottemis wrote...

Also, it seems to me that half the posters here wouldn't even trust EA if their statements were signed in blood.

Oh, I would trust them. If it was a one time activation at some server without the need to install the client.

I understand that the client is necessary for multiplayer, which I'm not interested in. The client on the other hand gives some reason for concern. It is capable of doing more than it's doing right now and the EULA about reserving the rights for data mining hasn't changed yet. So I can only assume the worst case of them starting data mining at some point in the future.

And there we're arriving at a point where I wouldn't trust any company, not just EA. I'm not buying a product where it is necessary to sign a contract that can be subject to one sided changes in the future. Even if I am aware of these changes in advance, the only choice available to me was to not use my product.

[Ottemis]

count_4 wrote...

Ottemis wrote...

Trying means a possibility of failure, doesn't have to mean they didn't try hard enough.
Life's all about compromise, but sometimes the cost is too great, and when it concearns two companies focussed on profit that just makes that statement so much more true. Also so much less something the average person can form a viable opinion on, because we don't have the information for a reason. We don't work there.

Like before, what you're saying is true, no doubt about it. 
But still my questions remains: What harm is done in trying to show EA how much we'd like to see something happen (in this case the Steam release)?

Concerning what you said about trust a few posts earlier: All this mistrust from a lot of people doesn't come from nothing.
They didn't wake up this morning, wondering which company they'll dislike today. EA made quite some mistakes the past year, some more capital than others, earning this mistrust. 
Now it's up to them to undo this, which doesn't happen overnight. (Same goes for BioWare but that's a different story.)

If your petition is solely about asking for ME3 on steam, I find that completely useless. My comment was to point that out to you so you could THINK about that, not start a useless debate with me. If mistrust is an issue (and I've said this earlier), put that in there, figure it out. I'm gonna go to bed.