3659 réponses à ce sujet

[Oniyaki]

EA/Bioware, you've lost my sale. I do not need another digital distribution platform on my PC.

[Tup3x]

EA, just add the damn opt out tickbox for privacy related things so that those who are against Origin because of their principles would stop whining...

[Ottemis]

Thoth_Amon wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...
There isn't going to be a storm. Some angry comments on internet forums and a few thousand less PC sales than expected are not a storm. The game will still sell better than ME1 or ME2, and Origin's user base will increase. 

Which amounts to ****all.  They don't have a solid library from which to build that userbase and trying to go head to head with Steam when you have around 40-50 titles on your store?  LOL, good luck.  Origin = DOA.

Is it? I'm not saying they did it on purpose because I'm the kind to actually believe them when they say they'd rather had it another way, but Origin delivers ALL EA titltes, while Steam does not. In that sense it's not a simple competition, because they're not fully competing. Steam is not restricted to Valve titles, that's the whole charm of it, I get that, they get that. While the two are comparable one way, they're absolutely not another. Important to keep in mind.

Tup3xi wrote...

EA, just add the damn opt out tickbox for privacy related things so that those who are against Origin because of their principles would stop whining...

Why though, it's protected in the EULA, they even emphasize to respect people's privacy and ensure us that it doesn't gather anything but Origin and game relevant information, and that only if you let it.
The drama over it is nonsensical.

Modifié par Ottemis, 17 janvier 2012 - 12:56 .

[Candidate 88766]

[inappropriate post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 17 janvier 2012 - 06:16 .

[Niki78]

6) I’ve seen reports that Origin is spyware.  Is this true?
Origin is not spyware, and does not use or install spyware on user’s machines.  In order to allow Origin to install games and their patches for everyone to use, Origin implements a permission change that results in Windows, not Origin, reviewing the filenames in the ProgramData/Origin folder.   This is an ordinary Windows function, not an information-gathering process.

Scanning the "ProgramData/Origin" folder wouldn't be a problem (although changing the folder permissions is a problem, because it makes UAC useless and opens my PC to worms&viruses - there's a good reason why microsoft set the permissions the way they are), but I don't see why it would scan other folders in C:\\ProgramData.

As it is, I don't think I can legally purchase ME3 for the PC. I'm using my PC for work, I signed a NDA for that. Installing suspicious software like Origin could cost me my job.

[Georilla]

Meh, not sure what to think. I've used steam for many years, I wasn't particularly fond of it back then, but in those years it has regained somewhat positive points. So overall I am happy with steam, even if it has some minor points. I have never ever used Origin, that will probably change when Mass Effect 3 comes. It's not something I would like to use, seeing this discussion doesn't make me feel any better. Origin seems just like a medicine against a sickness you hate the medicine, but you want the sickness gone so you take it anyway. I want to finish the trilogy. So sadly I have to use Origin, I'll accept it. But that doesn't mean I'll try to reduce it, for example I will probably run it on offline mode after activation most of the times, block it from accessing my internet while I play. EA has decided to force Origin on us, fine, but don't expect people to allow everything it does. Maybe it 5-10 years Origin will have the same reputation as steam, unlikely though, Steam controls the market on that department. All these download platforms disturb me you have Steam, Origin, Impulse. It's a pain having all these programs just to run the games you want to play.

[Candidate 88766]

Thoth_Amon wrote...

Candidate 88766 wrote...
There isn't going to be a storm. Some angry comments on internet forums and a few thousand less PC sales than expected are not a storm. The game will still sell better than ME1 or ME2, and Origin's user base will increase. 

Which amounts to ****all.  They don't have a solid library from which to build that userbase and trying to go head to head with Steam when you have around 40-50 titles on your store?  LOL, good luck.  Origin = DOA.

Their library consists of every EA game.

With franchises like Battlefield, Madden, FIFA, Mass Effect and Dead Space, Origin is going to have a pretty mighty catalogue.

Modifié par Candidate 88766, 17 janvier 2012 - 12:59 .

[Ottemis]

Niki78 wrote...

6) I’ve seen reports that Origin is spyware. Is this true?
Origin is not spyware, and does not use or install spyware on user’s machines. In order to allow Origin to install games and their patches for everyone to use, Origin implements a permission change that results in Windows, not Origin, reviewing the filenames in the ProgramData/Origin folder. This is an ordinary Windows function, not an information-gathering process.

Scanning the "ProgramData/Origin" folder wouldn't be a problem (although changing the folder permissions is a problem, because it makes UAC useless and opens my PC to worms&viruses - there's a good reason why microsoft set the permissions the way they are), but I don't see why it would scan other folders in C:ProgramData.

As it is, I don't think I can legally purchase ME3 for the PC. I'm using my PC for work, I signed a NDA for that. Installing suspicious software like Origin could cost me my job.

Eh. They said it was a windows function Origin calls upon, the EULA says they will not touch ANYTHING they have no right or reason to (aka anything not rig-info or game/origin related).
I get you'd be careful, but I don't think you have real reason to be.

[casadechrisso]

Ottemis, a programm can actually make use of Windows functions - that's what many Windows functions are for. Would Windows do this alone without Origin poking it "hey, Windows, help me out here, run a quick routine for me"?

[jamesp81]

Ottemis wrote...

Niki78 wrote...

6) I’ve seen reports that Origin is spyware. Is this true?
Origin is not spyware, and does not use or install spyware on user’s machines. In order to allow Origin to install games and their patches for everyone to use, Origin implements a permission change that results in Windows, not Origin, reviewing the filenames in the ProgramData/Origin folder. This is an ordinary Windows function, not an information-gathering process.

Scanning the "ProgramData/Origin" folder wouldn't be a problem (although changing the folder permissions is a problem, because it makes UAC useless and opens my PC to worms&viruses - there's a good reason why microsoft set the permissions the way they are), but I don't see why it would scan other folders in C:ProgramData.

As it is, I don't think I can legally purchase ME3 for the PC. I'm using my PC for work, I signed a NDA for that. Installing suspicious software like Origin could cost me my job.

Eh. They said it was a windows function Origin calls upon, the EULA says they will not touch ANYTHING they have no right or reason to (aka anything not rig-info or game/origin related).
I get you'd be careful, but I don't think you have real reason to be.

The statement about it using a windows function is meaningless.  See my post on page 37 dealing with this.

[Ottemis]

casadechrisso wrote...

Ottemis, a programm can actually make use of Windows functions - that's what many Windows functions are for. Would Windows do this alone without Origin poking it "hey, Windows, help me out here, run a quick routine for me"?

Ofc not, maybe you should try reading my answer in context of the remark I responded to. Just a suggestion.

jamesp81 wrote...

The statement about it using a windows function is meaningless.  See my post on page 37 dealing with this.

Coooooontext.

Modifié par Ottemis, 17 janvier 2012 - 01:18 .

[count_4]

jamesp81 wrote...

The statement about it using a windows function is meaningless.  See my post on page 37 dealing with this.

Read your post. What EA basically says it that they changed some file/folder permissions and the Windows API call that does this, triggers a filename scan on the directory.
There is nothing Origin can do about it short of not changing any permissions at all. It's indeed nor their fault that this happens.

The more important question is: Which permissions are they changing? Has EA commented on that?

[casadechrisso]

I'd also like to repeat something again for the pro-Origin crowd: Can't you see how many different arguments you're fighting against, from Users who have totally different reasons why they are against Origin? Example,

1. The Pro-Steam people. They want ME3 on their Steam library. Results in arguments about Steam being no better.

2. The Privacy-concerned people. Results in arguments about whether or not Origin is spyware

3. The bloatware-people. Results in arguments about how annoying it really is to have yet another programm running.

4. The general EA-mistrust people. Results in arguments about trusting the company and if you're save with them or not.

5. The account-binding, reselling argument

Etc. etc. There are so many different reasons not to like Origin or EA and every single one of them is picked out and argued about for pages and pages.

I'd also like to add that these different people often have not much in common, and if they only want the game on Steam because they have other games here, they are pointed out that Steam is no better than Origin on the spyware front, EVEN THOUGH they do not care about that particular argument. 

I have yet to hear anything actually positive about Origin besides simply accepting it as a necessary evil to play.

What does it add, why do you, the pro-crowd, defend it so much on every single front, instead of just accepting that there is a large crowd that simply doesn't want it for a multitude of reasons? Is it because you don't like to see the thread constantly popping up on page one and is easily confused with the twitter/pre-order bonus thread, or why?

Modifié par casadechrisso, 17 janvier 2012 - 01:31 .

[Vendrium]

You know, whether you care about the whole 'Steam' discussion or not - this whole thing IS about competition.

Just like every online giant, competitors will appear. And while EA Origin may ultimately fail in the same way Games for Windows Live failed at toppling Valve’s Steam, something might.

It isn't wrong for a company to want to opt out of feeding into Valve’s near monopoly on the PC digital storefront market.

If we want the industry to move forward, part of that is going to be accepting competition among the big publishing players.

The issue here for us is privacy and submission - whereas for EA it's competition and fighting piracy.

[Ottemis]

casadechrisso wrote...

Etc. etc. There are so many different reasons not to like Origin or EA and every single one of them is picked out and argued about for pages and pages.

I'd also like to add that these different people often have not much in common, and if they only want the game on Steam because they have other games here, they are pointed out that Steam is no better than Origin on the spyware front, EVEN THOUGH they do not care about that particular argument. 

I have yet to hear anything actually positive about Origin besides simply accepting it as a necessary evil to play.

What does it add, why do you, the pro-crowd, defend it so much on every single front, instead of just accepting that there is a large crowd that simply doesn't want it for a multitude of reasons? Is it because you don't like to see the thread constantly popping up on page one and is easily confused with the twitter/pre-order bonus thread, or why?

There are an array of reason to not like ANYTHING, because there will always be arguments for and against everything and anything.

Personally, I don't defend it on every single front, I'd like to think I try and call people on their bull**** now and again. Whether or not that's a useless endeavour, most likely, still.

Also, telling a pro crowd to not argue against the con crowd is the same as the pro crowd telling the con crowd not to complain. Where opinions differ there will be debate, and logically alot of people will be called on their bull**** either side. Whether or not I share concern with the con crowd doesn't stop me from understanding it, nor does it make my opinion less valid, whatever you might think of it. My reasons, those can be debated. I don't think EA or Origin deserves to get the amount of hate it does, for whatever reason.

So what's your point exactly? Should I just sit back and watch one troll after another walk into this thread and go "EA SUCKS AND THEY LIE AND STEAL bleeeeh, pre-order cancelled suckers!" draggin the average IQ down to below zero making this thread 100% less likely to produce anything of meaning?

Modifié par Ottemis, 17 janvier 2012 - 01:37 .

[casadechrisso]

Vendrium wrote...

You know, whether you care about the whole 'Steam' discussion or not - this whole thing IS about competition.

Just like every online giant, competitors will appear. And while EA Origin may ultimately fail in the same way Games for Windows Live failed at toppling Valve’s Steam, something might.

It isn't wrong for a company to want to opt out of feeding into Valve’s near monopoly on the PC digital storefront market.

Competition is not pulling a game from the competitor and building a new monopoly. Competition would be bringing the game to Steam, then showing the consumer that you can do better, giving them a choice.

Just for the cecord, I'm not part of the pro-Steam group example 1.) in my post above.

Modifié par casadechrisso, 17 janvier 2012 - 01:37 .

[Wardka]

Ottemis wrote...
There are an array of reason to not like ANYTHING, because there will always be arguments for and against everything and anything.

Personally, I don't defend it on every single front, I'd like to think I try and call people on their bull**** now and again. Whether or not that's a useless endeavour, most likely, still.

Also, telling a pro crowd to not argue against the con crowd is the same as the pro crowd telling the con crowd not to complain. Where opinions differ there will be debate, and logically alot of people will be called on their bull**** either side. Whether or not I share concern with the con crowd doesn't stop me from understanding it, nor does it make my opinion less valid, whatever you might think of it. My reasons, those can be debated. I don't think EA or Origin deserves to get the amount of hate it does, for whatever reason.
So what's your point exactly?

I'm mostly curious why there IS a pro crowd at all. It seems to me that everyone should be in favor of - or at least indifferent to - the notion of Origin being optional. Or is it simply a matter of "they already said it's not going to happen, so shut up already"?

[Bogsnot1]

Stanley Woo wrote...
A very off-topic for this thread and somewhat disrespectful line of discussion has been removed from this thread. I really do sympathize with you guys, but you're making it awfully difficult to justify keeping this thread open when you (the general "participants of this thread" you) time and again resort to violating our Site Rules and going off-topic.

Bogsnot1, Ravenmyste and Girlpower23, consider this your warning. Any further attempts to steer this discussion towards company bashing will result in more punitive measures.

I would like to thank some of our forum veterans such as Dragoonlordz and Zanallen for trying to keep this debate/discussion/argument open and on an even keel.

lolwot?
Perhaps if you (EA/Bioware) wanted to keep the disrespect to a minimum, you wouldnt treat your customers with the same level of disrespect.

You take us to task for breaking site rules, but why are we doing it? Because EA is breaking the law. The obvious spying debacle aside, here is one example of how.

Pcmag1 wrote...
Actually as far as origin EULA goes:
The terms and conditions are subject to change without prior written notice at any time at ORIGIN PC's sole discretion

Under Australian consumer law, changing the terms and conditions of a sale after said sale took place, can only occur if both parties agree upon it, and in writing. Hence, with that single line, any change to the EULA will render the EULA null and void. Any action on your part to force the changes upon the customers who have already paid for the service (as it will be forcibly installed with a paid product, it will be considered in a court of law as being a purchased product, not free), will be deemed illegal, and financial and/or other punitive measures can be taken against you (EA/Bioware).
Also, when the boxed copies of the games are shipped out to the various retail stores in Australia, you might want to send them a bunch of flyers to hand to potential customers, as any terms and conditions of a sale must be made clear to the purchaser prior to the purchase going ahead. Having a little "For full terms and conditions please go to this website" byline on the box does fall into the category of making the customer aware of the conditions of the sale. Without that awareness, once again, the EULA is rendered null and void.

I have no idea on how long this post will be available for others to read, as I have a feeling that once again, you will take measures to ensure that those who disagree with your corporate overlords are left without a voice, all the while you give the shills a nice little *patpat* on the head for their efforts in muddying the waters even further by glossing over the dodgy wording of the EULA that will give EA an open door onto peoples system.

Dont bother showing me the door, I know my way out.

[Ottemis]

Origin provides us with a service of convenience; as many have facilitated such things in the past, I'm sure many were against them every time.
Ofc it would be more convenient if this was handled by one single platform, but it's not.
I appreciate what service it offers and the risk I find are not something I concern myself with for reasons I've laid out as counterarguments in this thread many a time.

[casadechrisso]

Ottemis wrote...

casadechrisso wrote...

Etc. etc. There are so many different reasons not to like Origin or EA and every single one of them is picked out and argued about for pages and pages.

I'd also like to add that these different people often have not much in common, and if they only want the game on Steam because they have other games here, they are pointed out that Steam is no better than Origin on the spyware front, EVEN THOUGH they do not care about that particular argument. 

I have yet to hear anything actually positive about Origin besides simply accepting it as a necessary evil to play.

What does it add, why do you, the pro-crowd, defend it so much on every single front, instead of just accepting that there is a large crowd that simply doesn't want it for a multitude of reasons? Is it because you don't like to see the thread constantly popping up on page one and is easily confused with the twitter/pre-order bonus thread, or why?

There are an array of reason to not like ANYTHING, because there will always be arguments for and against everything and anything.

Personally, I don't defend it on every single front, I'd like to think I try and call people on their bull**** now and again. Whether or not that's a useless endeavour, most likely, still.

Also, telling a pro crowd to not argue against the con crowd is the same as the pro crowd telling the con crowd not to complain. Where opinions differ there will be debate, and logically alot of people will be called on their bull**** either side. Whether or not I share concern with the con crowd doesn't stop me from understanding it, nor does it make my opinion less valid, whatever you might think of it. My reasons, those can be debated. I don't think EA or Origin deserves to get the amount of hate it does, for whatever reason.

So what's your point exactly? Should I just sit back and watch one troll after another walk into this thread and go "EA SUCKS AND THEY LIE AND STEAL bleeeeh, pre-order cancelled suckers!" draggin the average IQ down to below zero making this thread 100% less likely to produce anything of meaning?

Just for the record, my interest is genuine. If a topic doesn't affect me personally, I usually don't get into it. Say, the twitter sticky or Pre-order bonus. Never ever clicked on it because I just couldn't care less. That's why, yes, if it doesn't affect you at all, I'm genuinely wondering why you go through this trouble, calling people out for theit bull**** or even read the trolls, instead of sit back. 

[Alex_SM]

casadechrisso wrote...

I have yet to hear anything actually positive about Origin besides simply accepting it as a necessary evil to play.

That's a really important point. Any deal, to be a good deal, MUST offer something to both parts.

What does Origin offer to users? What is the advantage of using it over not having it? 

[Incognito JC]

Alex_SM wrote...

What does Origin offer to users? What is the advantage of using it over not having it? 

The sad part is, so far, is the ability to play ME3. Sad but true.

[Ottemis]

casadechrisso wrote...
Just for the record, my interest is genuine. If a topic doesn't affect me personally, I usually don't get into it. Say, the twitter sticky or Pre-order bonus. Never ever clicked on it because I just couldn't care less. That's why, yes, if it doesn't affect you at all, I'm genuinely wondering why you go through this trouble, calling people out for theit bull**** or even read the trolls, instead of sit back.

Good question.
Maybe I'm a firm believer that people will never know their wrong untill someone tells them they are or they fall flat on their face. On the flipside, people will never know they were right, if nobody engages them positively. Either way i think the participation in healthy debate (which granted is not always the case) can only ever be positive. Either side, people learn, or should, should they care enough to (which granted is also not always the case).

I like to think of myself as an optimistic realist, but I think that was apparent already =P

Modifié par Ottemis, 17 janvier 2012 - 01:48 .

[casadechrisso]

Ottemis wrote...

Origin provides us with a service of convenience; as many have facilitated such things in the past, I'm sure many were against them every time.
Ofc it would be more convenient if this was handled by one single platform, but it's not.
I appreciate what service it offers and the risk I find are not something I concern myself with for reasons I've laid out as counterarguments in this thread many a time.

Perfectly acceptable, but a highly personal opinion based on your personal user experience. But if you had all other games on Steam, can't you see how unconvenient it is at the same time for Steam users? I'm using Steam, although not for my Mass Effect titles, however thinking about having my games (as in, from the same series) split up like that would make it very unconvenient for me. 

Don't get me wrong, I have actually used Origin before (or rather, EA download manager), it had the one convenient feature that it enabled me to work around a broken DVD drive in a laptop. So yes, for something like that it can be convenient, but it's nothing that makes it stand out so far, and having to use Origin for only one or two titles while the rest is on the direct competitor's library makes things rather chaotic for many. 
That's why I'm fighting for a freedom of choice. I mean, we'd all buy Mass Effect 3 anyway, so EA would get their money anyway, Origin or not. Why force us into that service as long as those that consider it convenient can use it still? It's not that we want to take the option away from you. 

Modifié par casadechrisso, 17 janvier 2012 - 01:51 .