3659 réponses à ce sujet

[Alex06]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Alex06 wrote...

I'm just trying to understand, and so far, I'm still holding my position against this concept of "necessary surveillance".

Which still means that you are trusting what others have said, and basing your position on that. If Origin is doing something nefarious, we should all be able to see it. Until someone shows me something that I can duplicate myself, I'm not worried at all. Because Origin appears to just be sitting on my computer, not doing anything. It downloaded the Amalur demo and installled it, and hasn't been active since. Interestingly, it does not need to be running to run the demo.

I'm using Origin, but it's not about it doing something nefarious. It's about the concept of relying on Origin to run a game. It's DRM and EA treats us as untrustworthy by forcing every game to run this application with it. Not only that, but sometimes it doesn't run properly, since it is a beta product, and it uses up RAM that could otherwise be used for other things. It's not about it being spyware in the actual sense of spyware, but more of "We're putting up a surveillance program because we don't trust that you won't crack the game, download it illegally or download the DLC illegally without paying". It's not spyware, but rather prevention of illegal hacking/piracy. It's a deterrent. And it's insulting to us loyal customers. Especially since, in the end, those who pirate the game (and it will be pirated and cracked not to require Origin, I'm 100% sure, since that has also happened with Battlefield 3 and other games that require Origin) are scot-free from this issue.

It's all about the principle.

[Ravenknight]

Eurypterid wrote...
/snip

No. Every PC copy of ME3 will require Origin to be installed in order to run. If you uninstall Origin, your game will not run until such time as you reinstall it.

And THAT is why ME3 loses a sale here. I don't give two rat's tail hairs where I purchase it from. But being forced to install an utterly useless piece of marketing software (seeing as there are superior alternatives out there, should I choose to partake) in order to play the SINGLE PLAYER ONLY part of the game is something I choose not to deal with. The issues of spyware are of no concern to me as at this point Origin will be watched VERY VERY carefully for a while to come yet. Thus rendering it toothless in that regard.
 

Remove the REQUIREMENT. Completely. Permanently. Return to me the choice of whether or not to use the client if and when I see fit, and a customer shall return.

-END OF LINE-

[Dragoonlordz]

Gatt9 wrote...

I'll bet money they won't though.

We may not see eye to eye on a huge amount, but this one aspect I think we both agree on.

[izmirtheastarach]

Alex06 wrote...

I'm using Origin, but it's not about it doing something nefarious. It's about the concept of relying on Origin to run a game. It's DRM and EA treats us as untrustworthy by forcing every game to run this application with it. Not only that, but sometimes it doesn't run properly, since it is a beta product, and it uses up RAM that could otherwise be used for other things. It's not about it being spyware in the actual sense of spyware, but more of "We're putting up a surveillance program because we don't trust that you won't crack the game, download it illegally or download the DLC illegally without paying". It's not spyware, but rather prevention of illegal hacking/piracy. It's a deterrent. And it's insulting to us loyal customers. Especially since, in the end, those who pirate the game (and it will be pirated and cracked not to require Origin, I'm 100% sure, since that has also happened with Battlefield 3 and other games that require Origin) are scot-free from this issue.

It's all about the principle.

I'm still not sure why that is a problem. It's a tiny program that certainly doesn't appear to be using any of my resources. It's hard to understand why it appears that way for me, but appears differently to others.

[Gatt9]

AlanC9 wrote...

Alex06 wrote...

Well, that's disappointing. It's useless. How is that promoting the client? I already know of its existence, so forcing it to use up RAM and annoy me is pointless. It serves no additional purpose than to nag the customer. It's like we're suffering for those who are pirating.

I don't like this one bit. And I still don't understand how forcing me to see the icon and have it use up my RAM serves as "advertisement" or "the promotion of an application to the user". I already know it's there, I installed it. How am I going to be more aware of its existence than that?

Beats me. I don't know why Steam does it either

Does anyone remember what Valve told us when they forced Steam down our throats?

You know you can remove Steam from the startup routine right?  And just launch it when you want to play something?

Additionally,  I have 8 gigabytes of RAM, 100 megs is no big deal.  Not to be rude,  but anyone who's upset about 100 megs in this day and age really needs to spend a week with Vista as their OS.

As far as what they told us,  Piracy control with the benefit to the consumer being an online digital distribution service with perpetual storage of your purchases.   Steam never pretended to be anything else,  and Steam always offered alternatives,  like Opt-Outs,  and the ability to use it as a digital CD check.

Which is in stark contrast to Origin,  which demanded I hand over every bit I have stored on my drive,  let them scan my surfing habits,  my application usage,  etc.

I don't respond well to being held hostage,  which is why ME3 will be the last EA game I buy,  and why my pre-order is for the 360 version.

EA can learn about how this works just like Ubisoft did,  when their PC sales drop 90%.

[Dragoonlordz]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

I'm still not sure why that is a problem. It's a tiny program that certainly doesn't appear to be using any of my resources. It's hard to understand why it appears that way for me, but appears differently to others.

It doesn't really use much at all. Your not wrong, I think others just would prefer if did not use any.

From what it took on my system when had running it took 90k memory, fluctuated between 0% and 1% CPU.

This was less than my web browser alone doing nothing with no addons and only one tab open which was on google page (Firefox which took 115k memory and fluctuated between 1% and 4% CPU).  

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 janvier 2012 - 05:24 .

[devil_foetus]

Kingdom of Amalur, that new EA game works fine with Steam, so whats the excuse for ME3?

[didymos1120]

Hey, check this out:

http://openorigin.sourceforge.net/

Being worked on by an EA dev.

[Dragoonlordz]

didymos1120 wrote...

Hey, check this out:

http://openorigin.sourceforge.net/

Being worked on by an EA dev.

Thats quite interesting. Especially the EA developer thread.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 janvier 2012 - 05:30 .

[Gatt9]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Alex06 wrote...

I'm using Origin, but it's not about it doing something nefarious. It's about the concept of relying on Origin to run a game. It's DRM and EA treats us as untrustworthy by forcing every game to run this application with it. Not only that, but sometimes it doesn't run properly, since it is a beta product, and it uses up RAM that could otherwise be used for other things. It's not about it being spyware in the actual sense of spyware, but more of "We're putting up a surveillance program because we don't trust that you won't crack the game, download it illegally or download the DLC illegally without paying". It's not spyware, but rather prevention of illegal hacking/piracy. It's a deterrent. And it's insulting to us loyal customers. Especially since, in the end, those who pirate the game (and it will be pirated and cracked not to require Origin, I'm 100% sure, since that has also happened with Battlefield 3 and other games that require Origin) are scot-free from this issue.

It's all about the principle.

I'm still not sure why that is a problem. It's a tiny program that certainly doesn't appear to be using any of my resources. It's hard to understand why it appears that way for me, but appears differently to others.

Two reasons...

1.  There's reports that being banned on an EA forum (Which I'll take a moment to remind you that Lulzsec hacked Bioware's forums just a couple months ago) means that you lose the ability to play every game you bought from them.

2.  DRM doesn't stop piracy,  pirates hack it out.  So only the honorable consumer who paid loses out,  such as Ubisoft where losing connection for just a moment means you crash to the desktop and lose all of your progress.  Which Origin treads dangerously close to.

The only people who lose to DRM are the lawful consumers. 

Plus,  keep in mind this is a very slippery slope.  Some publishers are now making games "One play through only",  and you can never start a new game once you finish it.  Others like Ubisoft,  are making it so only one person can play the game,  so if there's two of you in the house,  like a father and son,  you have to buy two copies.

Let me put it another way,  it's like buying a movie and being able to watch it only once.  Or buying a movie,  but only one person can watch it.

The intetion of more than a few DRM proponent companies are very anti-consumer.

[Rudy Lis]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

While it is true I am no fan of DA2, I too am pinning fair amount of hope on ME3.

Just really as a gauge about potential of quality of future titles. Some dissapointment with the direction the DA2 franchise headed, I am curious about the remaining franchise I care about stays as amazing as the first one and as good if not better than the second. I did not dislike ME2 though the story felt more forced and took away some of the fun ~plus planet scanning ~ but other than that I thought it was still good. 

I am sure our fears will not come to pass though, I honestly think they will have done the series proud on this one because being the end of the trilogy people expect the most.

Who summons wall of text? Here she is.

Likewise. One problem with DA2, I cannot accept combat system. Not changed spells or skills, mind you - Diablo 1 and 2 were very different, for example, but last time I checked, Hawke is pretty much human being (don't spoiler on me if he is not!) but he moves in ways... Well, let's say I think if Geralt ever put his eyes on Hawke's combat moves, he ended up with Jokerface (you know "humanity on their knees":)) and statement that he could not do that. So far in DA2 combat and some "gameplay simplifications" are two things I don't like.
Returning to ME3, well, I definitely doesn't like some changes happened on the way from ME1 to ME 2. First and foremost - weapon changes in ME2. Especially with all that codex blah-blah about "uberfast projectile speed". I've seen modern "slow" 7.62 tracers which flies much faster than any ME2 "uberfast" projectiles. While ME1 projectiles were close to codex - on distances up to 400 meters they were practically instant hit, while in ME2 there are lot of enemies who practially dodge bullets in distance not farther than 100 meters. Maybe it is me that hopeless fighter, but hey, I've beaten ME2 on insanity, so maybe I'm not THAT hopeless.
Second - thermal clips idea. I'm not against idea itself, I rather against its implementation. 10% ammo increase? that 1 bloody round for Predator pistol, thank you very much. Why not add 1 clip per wepon type? Or most hilarious thing - clip respawn for boss fights. IMHO Warhammer: Space Marine plasma weapon implementation was far more better (regardless what English grammar thinks about this phrase) and logical.
Third - catsuits and especially jacksuit. In open space.
I will not critisize storyline and missions, since they... well, suum cuique. Although I definitely don't like "close quarters" and miss open terrain. And Mako. God, I LOVE that vehicle, Hammerhead is bleak in comparison. Mako brought a lot of joy I haven't since... Bohemia's Operation Flashpoint, I guess.
Regarding mineral scanning... Well, yeah, you can follow white Hammerhead and scan all planets on your way to get required 220/250/170K of minerals, but it'll take around 90 minutes for nothing. Just like other minigames. They start to annoy you other than being fun and joy at the end of first playthrough. Since I got 5 under my belt now (well, 7, actually, but that was other Shepard, ignore him:)) - you can imagine how much I hate them.
I don't understand why they don't add enough amount of minerals for people who replays their game in 3rd and subsequent times. As well as minimize those "hack/unlock" things. Or allow us to choose amount of "karma" we have. Or choose Shepard looks. If you want look like renegade, why not to add this option? It's game, people, enjoy and let other enjoy.

Regarding fears... Well, I still got some. I fear they will kill hamster. And Kelly. They bastards.

[Gatt9]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

You know you can remove Steam from the startup routine right?  And just launch it when you want to play something?

Additionally,  I have 8 gigabytes of RAM, 100 megs is no big deal.  Not to be rude,  but anyone who's upset about 100 megs in this day and age really needs to spend a week with Vista as their OS.

As far as what they told us,  Piracy control with the benefit to the consumer being an online digital distribution service with perpetual storage of your purchases.   Steam never pretended to be anything else,  and Steam always offered alternatives,  like Opt-Outs,  and the ability to use it as a digital CD check.

Which is in stark contrast to Origin,  which demanded I hand over every bit I have stored on my drive,  let them scan my surfing habits,  my application usage,  etc.

I don't respond well to being held hostage,  which is why ME3 will be the last EA game I buy,  and why my pre-order is for the 360 version.

EA can learn about how this works just like Ubisoft did,  when their PC sales drop 90%.

Gatt9, bashing Origin and then jumping in defense of Steam sounds awfully stupid. Just so you know.

Reread my post.  Steam didn't demand I hand over every bit on my computer.  Not understanding the difference sounds awfully stupid,  just so you know.

[Abirn]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

You know you can remove Steam from the startup routine right?  And just launch it when you want to play something?

Additionally,  I have 8 gigabytes of RAM, 100 megs is no big deal.  Not to be rude,  but anyone who's upset about 100 megs in this day and age really needs to spend a week with Vista as their OS.

As far as what they told us,  Piracy control with the benefit to the consumer being an online digital distribution service with perpetual storage of your purchases.   Steam never pretended to be anything else,  and Steam always offered alternatives,  like Opt-Outs,  and the ability to use it as a digital CD check.

Which is in stark contrast to Origin,  which demanded I hand over every bit I have stored on my drive,  let them scan my surfing habits,  my application usage,  etc.

I don't respond well to being held hostage,  which is why ME3 will be the last EA game I buy,  and why my pre-order is for the 360 version.

EA can learn about how this works just like Ubisoft did,  when their PC sales drop 90%.

Gatt9, bashing Origin and then jumping in defense of Steam sounds awfully stupid. Just so you know.

Steam has built a reputation over the course of Many years.  So has EA,  both those reputations have been earned by actions the companies have taken.  It's not stupid at all to defend steam while bashing origin because the reputations of both have been earned,  It's EA's fault if it has a bad reputation.

[Alex06]

Gatt9 wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Alex06 wrote...

I'm using Origin, but it's not about it doing something nefarious. It's about the concept of relying on Origin to run a game. It's DRM and EA treats us as untrustworthy by forcing every game to run this application with it. Not only that, but sometimes it doesn't run properly, since it is a beta product, and it uses up RAM that could otherwise be used for other things. It's not about it being spyware in the actual sense of spyware, but more of "We're putting up a surveillance program because we don't trust that you won't crack the game, download it illegally or download the DLC illegally without paying". It's not spyware, but rather prevention of illegal hacking/piracy. It's a deterrent. And it's insulting to us loyal customers. Especially since, in the end, those who pirate the game (and it will be pirated and cracked not to require Origin, I'm 100% sure, since that has also happened with Battlefield 3 and other games that require Origin) are scot-free from this issue.

It's all about the principle.

I'm still not sure why that is a problem. It's a tiny program that certainly doesn't appear to be using any of my resources. It's hard to understand why it appears that way for me, but appears differently to others.

Two reasons...

1.  There's reports that being banned on an EA forum (Which I'll take a moment to remind you that Lulzsec hacked Bioware's forums just a couple months ago) means that you lose the ability to play every game you bought from them.

2.  DRM doesn't stop piracy,  pirates hack it out.  So only the honorable consumer who paid loses out,  such as Ubisoft where losing connection for just a moment means you crash to the desktop and lose all of your progress.  Which Origin treads dangerously close to.

The only people who lose to DRM are the lawful consumers. 

Plus,  keep in mind this is a very slippery slope.  Some publishers are now making games "One play through only",  and you can never start a new game once you finish it.  Others like Ubisoft,  are making it so only one person can play the game,  so if there's two of you in the house,  like a father and son,  you have to buy two copies.

Let me put it another way,  it's like buying a movie and being able to watch it only once.  Or buying a movie,  but only one person can watch it.

The intetion of more than a few DRM proponent companies are very anti-consumer.

You put it quite well, thank you. =)

I didn't know about the "One playthrough only" DRM method, though. Who does that? That sounds horrible!

The movie example is the perfect example. I consider games like a movie (single player) or like a sport (multi player). You can play as many times as you want, with whom you want, wherever you want, when it comes to sports. You don't need to pay or be checked by someone to make sure you're breaking rules. As for movies, well, it's like you said. So I don't see why it has to be this way for games. It's very anti-consumer, exactly.

[izmirtheastarach]

Gatt9 wrote...

Two reasons...

1.  There's reports that being banned on an EA forum (Which I'll take a moment to remind you that Lulzsec hacked Bioware's forums just a couple months ago) means that you lose the ability to play every game you bought from them.

2.  DRM doesn't stop piracy,  pirates hack it out.  So only the honorable consumer who paid loses out,  such as Ubisoft where losing connection for just a moment means you crash to the desktop and lose all of your progress.  Which Origin treads dangerously close to.

The only people who lose to DRM are the lawful consumers. 

Plus,  keep in mind this is a very slippery slope.  Some publishers are now making games "One play through only",  and you can never start a new game once you finish it.  Others like Ubisoft,  are making it so only one person can play the game,  so if there's two of you in the house,  like a father and son,  you have to buy two copies.

Let me put it another way,  it's like buying a movie and being able to watch it only once.  Or buying a movie,  but only one person can watch it.

The intetion of more than a few DRM proponent companies are very anti-consumer.

1. Don't use EA's forums. That should be clear to anyone who followed that story. Also, the other clear way to avoid that issue is the not buy any games from Origin. No one is insisting that you do so.

2. Points about  DRM are totally true, but don't really stop me from being able to play the game. As to your other points about digital product, I go back to your first point. Buy a retail copy of the game. No one can take that away from you.

[CenturyCrow]

didymos1120 wrote...

Hey, check this out:

http://openorigin.sourceforge.net/

Being worked on by an EA dev.

Ironic, since Origin software is freeware, but this is a case where people would pay not to have to install it.

Baffling to see EA on an open source page and what would this do that the current version (that nobody wants) do?

[Daeel]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

You know you can remove Steam from the startup routine right?  And just launch it when you want to play something?

Additionally,  I have 8 gigabytes of RAM, 100 megs is no big deal.  Not to be rude,  but anyone who's upset about 100 megs in this day and age really needs to spend a week with Vista as their OS.

As far as what they told us,  Piracy control with the benefit to the consumer being an online digital distribution service with perpetual storage of your purchases.   Steam never pretended to be anything else,  and Steam always offered alternatives,  like Opt-Outs,  and the ability to use it as a digital CD check.

Which is in stark contrast to Origin,  which demanded I hand over every bit I have stored on my drive,  let them scan my surfing habits,  my application usage,  etc.

I don't respond well to being held hostage,  which is why ME3 will be the last EA game I buy,  and why my pre-order is for the 360 version.

EA can learn about how this works just like Ubisoft did,  when their PC sales drop 90%.

Gatt9, bashing Origin and then jumping in defense of Steam sounds awfully stupid. Just so you know.

Why? Steam is a superior program. I know you folks want to compare them but you really shouldn't. The similarities end at digital distribution. Steam isn't buggy and has amazing deals, great interface.

origins has what? spyware? wait, it use to have spyware. now its just holding games hostage.

Modifié par Daeel, 18 janvier 2012 - 05:37 .

[Abirn]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

Two reasons...

1.  There's reports that being banned on an EA forum (Which I'll take a moment to remind you that Lulzsec hacked Bioware's forums just a couple months ago) means that you lose the ability to play every game you bought from them.

2.  DRM doesn't stop piracy,  pirates hack it out.  So only the honorable consumer who paid loses out,  such as Ubisoft where losing connection for just a moment means you crash to the desktop and lose all of your progress.  Which Origin treads dangerously close to.

The only people who lose to DRM are the lawful consumers. 

Plus,  keep in mind this is a very slippery slope.  Some publishers are now making games "One play through only",  and you can never start a new game once you finish it.  Others like Ubisoft,  are making it so only one person can play the game,  so if there's two of you in the house,  like a father and son,  you have to buy two copies.

Let me put it another way,  it's like buying a movie and being able to watch it only once.  Or buying a movie,  but only one person can watch it.

The intetion of more than a few DRM proponent companies are very anti-consumer.

1. Don't use EA's forums. That should be clear to anyone who followed that story. Also, the other clear way to avoid that issue is the not buy any games from Origin. No one is insisting that you do so.

2. Points about  DRM are totally true, but don't really stop me from being able to play the game. As to your other points about digital product, I go back to your first point. Buy a retail copy of the game. No one can take that away from you.

Don't use EA's forums is not a valid argument,  There is no logical reason why a forum ban should cost you access to playing the games you have purchased, much less single player modes.

[Dragoonlordz]

Rudy Lis wrote...
Regarding fears... Well, I still got some. I fear they will kill hamster. And Kelly. They bastards.

ME2 on insanity, your better than me. But once read you liked the Mako I think you just made me happy that wasn't just me.

lol your a novice compared to the master however on walls of text, click on my DA2 review link bottom of signature if you want to see a pro in action. 

BUT do NOT read it as does contains spoilers if you haven't completed the game yet, just scroll down page glancing rather than reading.

P.s. The Hampster is epic without doubt, fish on the other hand never lived long. I blame Kelly though in reality was more my fault.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 18 janvier 2012 - 05:42 .

[izmirtheastarach]

Abirn wrote...

Don't use EA's forums is not a valid argument,  There is no logical reason why a forum ban should cost you access to playing the games you have purchased, much less single player modes.

Oh, I'm not disagreeing with that point at all. I think it's ridiculous. I'm just talking about how I would avoid that issue.

[Alex06]

Origin sort of feels like if some government agent came into my house and my room and told me "We're going to put a camera and a wire".
"Why?"
"To make sure you don't kill anyone."
"But I'm not going to kill anyone. Do you have any reason to think that?"
"No, but we have no reason to think you won't either. If you promise, you could be lying. It's just a precaution. And/Or a deterrent, to prevent you from doing something illegal."

But it's an invasion of my privacy. And those who circumvent it get no flak, while the loyal, honest, do-good customers get their privacy taken away for security. This is wrong. This is obscene
.
Like I said, it's all about principle, about concept. Yes, I have things to hide, and no, they aren't of anyone's business. It's normal for a human being to want to hide, say, embarassing photos, or the fact they masturbate to porn movies every friday at 8 pm.

Modifié par Alex06, 18 janvier 2012 - 05:44 .