3659 réponses à ce sujet

[izmirtheastarach]

Alex06 wrote...

Origin sort of feels like if some government agent came into my house and my room and told me "We're going to put a camera and a wire".
"Why?"
"To make sure you don't kill anyone."
"But I'm not going to kill anyone. Do you have any reason to think that?"
"No, but we have no reason to think you won't either. If you promise, you could be lying. It's just a precaution. And/Or a deterrent, to prevent you from doing something illegal."

But it's an invasion of my privacy. And those who circumvent it get no flak, while the loyal, honest, do-good customers get their privacy taken away for security. This is wrong. This is obscene.
Like I said, it's all about principle, about concept. Yes, I have things to hide, and no, they aren't of anyone's business. It's normal for a human being to want to hide, say, embarassing photos, or the fact they masturbate to porn movies every friday at 8 pm.

Once again, can someone give me a way that I can confirm that Origin is doing any of those things? Because to my eye, it appears to be sitting inert on my hard drive. Doing nothing. It's leaving my privacy alone. I guess other people have some sort of different Origin then I do? Perhaps they are on some sort of watch list or something.

[izmirtheastarach]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Once again, can someone give me a way that I can confirm that Origin is doing any of those things? Because to my eye, it appears to be sitting inert on my hard drive. Doing nothing. It's leaving my privacy alone. I guess other people have some sort of different Origin then I do? Perhaps they are on some sort of watch list or something.

If it's really doing that, there's no problem. But, how do you know it's doing that? Do you have a process manager or whatever installed?

Both the one built into Windows and a third part tool. I could install every imaginable monitoring tool and it would make no difference.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 18 janvier 2012 - 05:51 .

[Daeel]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Daeel wrote...

Why? Steam is a superior program. I know you folks want to compare them but you really shouldn't. The similarities end at digital distribution. Steam isn't buggy and has amazing deals, great interface.

origins has what? spyware? wait, it use to have spyware. now its just holding games hostage.

Dude. They're both stupid. Don't think I'm a fan of Origin. I'm just not a fan of people demonizing one client while holding up the other as the paragon of it's kind.

Steam IS the best of it's kind though. So... not sure why you're so defensive.

[Harley_Dude]

Origin is the new Qwikster.

[casadechrisso]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

StElmo wrote...

Isn't the main problem with Origin simply the spying?

I did some research and found that it looks through heaps of unrelated files on your computer.

Steam does not do this, unless you allow it.

I don't have origin running unless I play a game, but I won't be playing games on it anymore until I know its not looking through my files like a snoop.

Is there a third party way of blocking origin from snooping, while allowing it to run the necessary processes for games?

People have different issues with it.

Some refuse any clients including Steam or Origin and refuse to buy if any is equired. Some people are worried that EA may revert back to old ways and spy on them or they simply do not have enough trust in EA in general. Some just want information about whats the client is, does, scans, sends and how it compares to others. Some people wish to have Opti In and Opt Out systems in place and some people just want a change in the EULA. Others have no problem with the client and just wish to know the information about it that Bioware has.

It's good to see that you at least acknwledge that there are multiple reasons to complain about Origin, even though I still don't understand why you defend Origin against every single one of them. I realy can't see how you can call yourself neutral on this issue, sorry. And just for the record, I used Origin myself (to get around a broken DVD and ME1's similar horrible DRM). But let me fill up that list again, just for completition. 


1. ME3 on Steam. Many want this, regardless of any spyware/whatever issues, they just want to play the game from the same place as all their other Bioware games and don't see Origin as being the "best experience for the player", for a very very good reason. It has nothing to do with data collection and whether Steam is better or worse than Origin, it'd just make sense for them to have their game there along with the rest.

I support this wholeheartedly, I'm all for bringing the game on Steam, although I personally don't need it - none of my Bioware games were bought on Steam, only retail. I must also add that I really see Steam as the lesser of the two evils (I really don't like the Steam requirement of some games as well though), for multiple reasons like ease of use and last but not least great pricing during sales. Also, real money for DLCs versus Biopoints ripoff (one of those "shady methods" of EA on my sheet).
BUT this is not about switching the Origin requirement to a forced Steam requirement, it's about having the option, and I see absolutely no reason at all why anyone would argue against it. 

----

2. The spyware/EULA issue. It's absolutely fine for people to be worried about this given EA's past, and there are many reasons why people don't trust EA. Personally, it's not sooo much an issue for me anymore because I'm German and feel protected by the German law in this matter after the anti-Origin storm over here and the willingness of EA to work on the matter. At this moment I don't believe that Origin is spyware of a serious kind, but keep in mind that this can change with the very next update already, the EULA grants EA all the rights.

Note that the changes for us Krauts were only possible because German gamers complained loudly just like here, they didn't let EA channel their complaints into the "official way" - that's mainly some dead email adresses nobody reads anyway. They complained loudly on boards and other public places, so it proves to me that this is the way to go. 
I support anyone who's worried about this matter, and as someone posted earlier, one has to wonder why EA doesn't make the German EULA and opt-in/out options the default for everyone. 

One thing I'd also like to add on this matter just because it came up earlier: People defended the EULA with the argument that it's pretty much standard and everyone has similar ToS/EULAs these days.
German authorities (or was it customer associations? Well, those that finally put the pressure on EA) were quite clear on this matter: They stated that they've been watching software companies and their ways to deal with EULAsfor a very long time, and it's clear that they expect customers to click it away for TL;DR. The sheer size of the EULAs was a matter too. Long story short, when the Origin matter came up ,they wanted to set an example not only for EA but for other software companies too, to show the industry that these practices aren't tolerated anymore. They try to slowly change not only EA, but others in the industry too. 

In this matter, I guess it's okay to discuss how much Origin and it's EULA really invade your privacy, but keep in mind that this is a highly personal matter - people who happily use facebook and post their pics on public forums might have much less problems with this than people like me who refuse a Beta key for SWTOR because they don't want their adress and phone number in EA's possession. 

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3. Mistrust against Origin and EA for other reasons. I'm mainly in this category too. I don't trust EA an inch based on past experience. They've never done anything good for me, but I read horror stories regulary and experienced their horrible support myself. As stated before, I also think they are responsible for a lot of things that changed Bioware to the worse, plus to me it's obvious they are greedy bastards who use dirty tricks to milk the customer as much as possible. I do belive they lie. I don't feel like my games are safe with them too, just getting my Bring Down the Sky DLC back was a horrible experience and gives me a glimpse of what might happen to my other DLC and games in the future. Needless to mention the banhammer and losing access to an entire game library for using the F-word on their boards. And argueing that these games are not yours anyway and they can take back the license for what you paid for anytime is talk that I'd only expect from EA itself but not from a fellow gamer. Even if it was legal it would still be shabby. 

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4. Bloatware and the opposite of ease of use. If other people don't mind running multiple game clients at the same time, I do. I don't run multiple iTunes clones too, one for my whole library is more than enough and I don't want to switch to Windows Media Player every time I want to hear the Stones after the Beatles.
This is not a simple loader, this is a complete shop system and Steam clone that annoys with popups, will grow and grow in size over the time, wants to start with Windows and be always active, etc. etc.
Oh right, you can configure it to be a little less intrusive, you might sandbox it, you can reconfigure your Firewall, you can install Adblock...all great tips... is THAT your idea of ease of use and giving gamers the "best experience possible"? Sorry, I don't want to spend more time reconfiguring my usless bloatware than actually playing my games. Most people are happy when they never even have to look at their firewall. And once Origin succeeds, another client will come, and another.... This is one of the main reasons I hate Origin. 

----

As for the form of protest and where to complain, as I already mentioned above I do not believe the least in the "official way" because that's usually a company's way of calming the waves. No, protest must be loud and threaten the publisher's image as was clearly shown in the past. 

Are the Bioboards a good place to complain? Of course, just like the BF3 boards were. First, this is the place where the unsatisfied gamers find together, their common ground, the game they care about. And then we are directly talking to EA employees here already, even if many might still only see them as the nice Bioware-guys (of course they are, BUT also EA employees).
This is already the chain of command, and you can work yourself up from there. If the outrage is getting too much, a boss will hear from it, and then another boss, until it reaches the EA suits (in a highly optimisic scenario of course). Emails to support or feedback only collect dust and you're totally on your own writing them.

Petitions... might work in one or two cases, but then we'd have to agree on a petition everyone would sign and the best place for it. Sadly, there are too many petition sites on the web, I wouldn't know which one has the best chance. Then we'd have to agree on what kind of petition - the one only for ME3 on Steam isn't enough for me, I want Origin completely optional, Steam or not. Etc.

Conclusion: For this moment I honestly believe the official board of the game, which is here, is the best place to voice your complaint. 

Casa over, I know, TL;DR... 

Modifié par casadechrisso, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:24 .

[Rockworm503]

Gatt9 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Gatt9 wrote...

You know you can remove Steam from the startup routine right?  And just launch it when you want to play something?

Additionally,  I have 8 gigabytes of RAM, 100 megs is no big deal.  Not to be rude,  but anyone who's upset about 100 megs in this day and age really needs to spend a week with Vista as their OS.

As far as what they told us,  Piracy control with the benefit to the consumer being an online digital distribution service with perpetual storage of your purchases.   Steam never pretended to be anything else,  and Steam always offered alternatives,  like Opt-Outs,  and the ability to use it as a digital CD check.

Which is in stark contrast to Origin,  which demanded I hand over every bit I have stored on my drive,  let them scan my surfing habits,  my application usage,  etc.

I don't respond well to being held hostage,  which is why ME3 will be the last EA game I buy,  and why my pre-order is for the 360 version.

EA can learn about how this works just like Ubisoft did,  when their PC sales drop 90%.

Gatt9, bashing Origin and then jumping in defense of Steam sounds awfully stupid. Just so you know.

Reread my post.  Steam didn't demand I hand over every bit on my computer.  Not understanding the difference sounds awfully stupid,  just so you know.

I'm agreeing with Gatt9!!! oh god

[Daeel]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Daeel wrote...

Steam IS the best of it's kind though. So... not sure why you're so defensive.

There's a difference between "the best of its kind" and "the best f*cking thing since sliced bread," which is what a couple of people's posts come off as. I'm saying that praising a download distribution client while condemning another download distribtion client (on many of the same points as the one praised) is hypocritical.

Well steam did revolutionize how PC gamers get their games. Is it such a stretch to say that Steam did something extraordinary?
Oh really, my arguments have nothing to do with steam. I don't like the mandatory installation of a buggy unfinished program. 

[casadechrisso]

didymos1120 wrote...

Hey, check this out:

http://openorigin.sourceforge.net/

Being worked on by an EA dev.

Very interesting indeed, I shall watch this. 

[Rockworm503]

Look the simple fact is Steam didn't make me feel like I was downloading Spyware when I first got it.
Like I've already said Steam has nothing to do with it. EA needs to show ME that Origin is worth it.

Modifié par Rockworm503, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:01 .

[didymos1120]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Hey, check this out:

http://openorigin.sourceforge.net/

Being worked on by an EA dev.

What does it do?

Nothing yet.  It'll be an open-source replacement for Origin when he gets done with it.

[izmirtheastarach]

Daeel wrote...

Well steam did revolutionize how PC gamers get their games. Is it such a stretch to say that Steam did something extraordinary?
Oh really, my arguments have nothing to do with steam. I don't like the mandatory installation of a buggy unfinished program. 

See, now that at least leads me to a clear point that I can agree with. The idea of requiring your AAA flagship title to run on a platform that is clearly labled as a Beta is a little ridiculous. It literally says "Origin Beta" at the top.

Modifié par izmirtheastarach, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:02 .

[Dragoonlordz]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Daeel wrote...

Steam IS the best of it's kind though. So... not sure why you're so defensive.

There's a difference between "the best of its kind" and "the best f*cking thing since sliced bread," which is what a couple of people's posts come off as. I'm saying that praising a download distribution client while condemning another download distribtion client (on many of the same points as the one praised) is hypocritical.

I wouldn't waste your time on this, I mean if play his game you will be here till the end of time fighting.

Trust me easier to ignore. Or atleast once hit stage where feel like going around in circles.

One of those agree to disagree situations, went around in circles for 5+ pages before I realised not worth it.

[Daeel]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...


I don't want to start arguing about Steam cause that's off-topic, but I dislike extremely the idea of not having a physical disc, thus I dislike Steam (as well as Origin). I see Steam as the only reason we have Origin. I wouldn't say it so much revolutionized, myself.  But that's opinion.

Well thank god that Steam doesn't burn down all the game stores and FORCE you to buy digital games. I mean any company that would try to FORCE you to use their program would be scum, right?

[Daeel]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Daeel wrote...

Steam IS the best of it's kind though. So... not sure why you're so defensive.

There's a difference between "the best of its kind" and "the best f*cking thing since sliced bread," which is what a couple of people's posts come off as. I'm saying that praising a download distribution client while condemning another download distribtion client (on many of the same points as the one praised) is hypocritical.

I wouldn't waste your time on this, I mean if play his game you will be here till the end of time fighting.

Trust me easier to ignore. Or atleast once hit stage where feel like going around in circles.

One of those agree to disagree situations, went around in circles for 5+ pages before I realised not worth it.

We've only been at it for like 5 posts. Eternal is a big boy he can decide for himself.

[Alex06]

izmirtheastarach wrote...

Daeel wrote...

Well steam did revolutionize how PC gamers get their games. Is it such a stretch to say that Steam did something extraordinary?
Oh really, my arguments have nothing to do with steam. I don't like the mandatory installation of a buggy unfinished program. 

See, now that at least leads me to a clear point that I can agree with. The idea of requiring your AAA flagship title to run on a platform that is clearly labled as a Beta is a little ridiculous. It literally says "Origin Beta" at the top.

Another issue I have with Origin.
As for the example I put up at the top of this page, it's that Origin sort of does that. It doesn't snoop around, it merely serves there as a permission.

"Hey, mom, can I play a game? Hey, mom, can I have this? Hey, mom..." and so on. I don't need a parent to be around when I'm an adult. The "it's there just in case" or "it's there as a deterrent" excuse doesn't serve me well, because those who pirate Origin do not have it there as a deterrent or "just in case". It's about principle, not about actual actions, I'm saying it again.

[Daeel]

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

Daeel wrote...

Well thank god that Steam doesn't burn down all the game stores and FORCE you to buy digital games. I mean any company that would try to FORCE you to use their program would be scum, right?

I know, totally. Which is why I'm kinda pissed at Steam for being required with Skyrim.

(reverse psychology? lol.)

Why are you making this about Steam instead of Origins. Steam earned the right to do that. There program is solid. It's not buggy, they haven't spied on me before.

Origins is unfinished, it shouldn't even be released yet.
Btw, Keep dancing around the Origins issue. It's cute.

Modifié par Daeel, 18 janvier 2012 - 06:10 .

[Alex06]

I've seen someone post an argument about how "You really shouldn't whine, 100mb of RAM and 50mb of HDD space is not a big deal". Sure, a small scar on your face is not a big deal. Neither is another one, and so on. Eventually, all this "no big deal" accumulates and DOES become a big deal. We start letting up little freedoms, eventually, we give up more and more until it becomes serious. And why do we need to have 2 digital download services? It overcomplicates things for no reason, especially since the new EA games aren't on Origin and other games, like Skyrim, are only available on Steam, and not Origin. Besides, it doesn't matter, since as with the example, it's my body. I shouldn't have to be willing to sacrifice anything. Same as with Origin and my games. I shouldn't be willing to sacrifice small liberties for my games.

[shepskisaac]

didymos1120 wrote...

EternalAmbiguity wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Hey, check this out:

http://openorigin.sourceforge.net/

Being worked on by an EA dev.

What does it do?

Nothing yet.  It'll be an open-source replacement for Origin when he gets done with it.

A superior Origin? Me likes